42 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

A DEV GOT NINJA'D BY ANOTHER DEV.



THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT IS COMING TO AN END.



BUT MARY, HAVE NO FEAR!



MIKE HAWKE IS HERE!

[Brockololly]

adneate wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

But one other thing, obviously there won't be a paragon/renegade choices, but what about dialogue that only opens up based on cunning or persuade or intimidation? Are those aspects still around?

I'd add to this specialization and class based options if I'm a Spirit Healer and I'm talking to someone who is injured shouldn't I have the option to you know heal them? I bugged me to no end that when talking to Brother Genitivi my Healer had to bandage him up and not heal him with my magic.

Thats a good catch, adneate. What say you, writers?

[Kalfear]

Im playing Leliannas song right now and while I havent complained about Voice Over



I gotta say, I sure dont feel as connected to Lelianna as I did my character in DA:O

I know im playing someone elses character and im picking the voice commands for someone elses character!



No voice over is ever going to fully replace what your imagination can summon up and I fully understand why some people upset about that aspect thats going to be missing from DA2.



Really wish the blind devoted fans would take a breath of fresh air and quiet down. People have a RIGHT toquestion and be concerned.



Bioware doesnt have the rep it did 5 years ago and beyond for many of us and this is the after effect of ruining their reputation. Like it or not. People are going to question, comment, and get upset if stuff not explained fully and properly. And the opening statements about DA2 have not been explained fully and properly, far far far from it!

[Addai]

LenaMarie wrote...

Well I guess theres no getting around hating the VO, I mean I thought Leliana had a pretty voice so it was easy for me to listen to her and get absorbed in her Story, Same as Ms. Shepard. I found Female Shep's voice actually pretty sexy, so I enjoyed that voice speaking for my character.

If you dislike an NPC's VO, you can just leave them in camp (hello Leli, stir the stew while we're gone will ya).  But there's no escaping your PC's voice.  Many people complained about the voice sets in DAO and modded them to eliminate them or mostly eliminate them.  What are you supposed to do about an entirely voiced PC?  Esc like mad through the whole game???

However I disagree with no roleplaying, just because a character is voiced, in ME, you can play Shepard as a total ass, and the characters will react to it, hell some people can end up dead as a result, you can also play it neutral or goody goody, thats roleplaying right there.

The difference is, however, that it's not just a writer getting in between you and the PC you want to create.  It's now a voice actor and director who are interfering.  Yes, I realize I'm being a pessimist and that good voice acting could actually help create a persona by suggesting cues, but I'd rather a more imaginative experience.  A more literary one.  The interplay between my mind and a novelist's words is an exercise I can get into.  If I want to watch a movie, I'm switching brain to standby mode and sitting back to see what the director and actors have to present to me.  The twain have not met successfully yet, for me.

DAO was the one game out of the half dozen toon games I've tried (I'm a wannabe, I confess) that struck me as literary.  I don't want that to go away.  I realize there are dollar signs involved, I must be a big girl and accept the inevitability of the inevitable, etc., and I won't be terribly broken up if I have to give the PC back to husband full-time.  It still is disappointing news.

I think however, these days most people find it inexcusible for a game not to have spoken Dialogue, while the Old School crowd might disagree, I think Bioware has to go for the crowd that'll give them the most money.

I'm not old school- I never even played D & D and only came very, very late to MUSH roleplay.  So I consider myself new to video games.  Maybe the old crowd is the set who already buy every title that comes out and there is room for a niche market?  It's probably too much to hope, I agree.

I'll admit to be very slightly skeptical, but trusting of Bioware, but after playing Leli's song, personally so long as I can get behind the Actress playing Ms. Hawke, Story and drama isnt a big deal, Bioware knows how to craft a good story, so I dont think anyone should worry about that aspect, I can really dig the style, and I played Baldur's Gate myself and enjoyed it back in the day.
 

It's my first Bioware game and I was not impressed with Mass Effect as I said, so I don't have anything on which to base trust but DAO.  The expansion was disappointing and DSC was appalling.  Leliana's Song at least is story-based, so that's a plus, but all in all the ship is not moving where I'd like to see it go.

Modifié par Addai67, 11 juillet 2010 - 06:03 .

[Mike2640]

LenaMarie wrote...

So I was playing Leliana's song and it dawned on me this is playing exactly how DA 2 is sounding like its going to be.
Leliana was a fully voiced PC, and while we couldnt edit her apperance, race or name unlike Hawke its essentially the same. The story is based around Leliana, as is Hawkes story, Bioware has said Hawke is the center and the driving force, and it seemed to work great in Leliana's song. Of course, Lelaina's song is also a personal story, and didnt focus on companions much as DA2 is going to be with hawke, albiet with DA 2 we'll probaly have more from the companions, but the idea is there.

So Im wondering if anyone of the self proclaimed DA 2 haters, also hated Leliana's Song. Because it was a pretty good DLC, and does nothing to make me think DA 2 would be bad, so Im thinking if people enjoyed this DLC, then they should stop whining because it means DA 2 is going to be good too, and with alot more customization albiet without race choice.

I've yet to play Leliana's Song, so take that into consideration, but the Leliana being voiced isn't as big an issue to me because it's a side story based on a character that has already been established. As an earlier poster said we're not Roleplaying Leliana, we're just learning more about her past.

I dont like the idea of the voiced PC and the dialogue wheel because, based on what has been presented in Mass Effect, they're quite inferior to the system Dragon Age Origins presented when it comes to roleplaying and defining who you want your character to be.

So that's why I am given pause when I read through the changes being made for the sequel. It feels like, in my opinion, that you're taking steps backwards. I have no doubt Dragon Age 2 will be a good game. Mass Effect 2 was a good game, but not because of it's RPG elements, which were very minimal especially compared to Dragon Age Origins. That's what i'm worried about happening with DA 2.

[Todd23]

Leliana's Song was a lot like when you send a mage in to the fade at Redcliff castle, you can pick your general question or thing to say, but you can't word it, so I'm hoping that you can choose Halk's exact words, because he's the main character.

[LenaMarie]

I think the only way some of you guys and girls will be happy is if someone made a really smart Kinect game where you speak in your own voice and you can talk to npcs however you want using your own script, thats the only way I really see getting the kind of 'sandbox' RPG your talking about.



Because, even with silent PCs, your still using someone elses script and words, the only difference is you can pretend in your mind you hear it in the certain voice you want.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

LenaMarie wrote...

I think the only way some of you guys and girls will be happy is if someone made a really smart Kinect game where you speak in your own voice and you can talk to npcs however you want using your own script, thats the only way I really see getting the kind of 'sandbox' RPG your talking about.

Because, even with silent PCs, your still using someone elses script and words, the only difference is you can pretend in your mind you hear it in the certain voice you want.

There's always going to be roleplaying limitations, unless of course we get a system where we can speak our own words into the game and become whoever we want. (Then it just becomes a life simulator though doesn't it?)

 I quite liked how DA:O was set up, and truth be told it is the first game that I've really invested so much effort into role playing a specific character. (I tried doing so in the original Mass Effect, but it only worked to a certain extent unfortunately due to the way Shepard responds in many scenes)  The main issue of contention is that we're getting more limitations for role playing  so they can craft a  tighter narrative.  It isn't necessarily a bad thing I suppose, but it goes against expectations and thus is a bit upsetting for those of us hoping for more of the same.

[Mike2640]

LenaMarie wrote...

I think the only way some of you guys and girls will be happy is if someone made a really smart Kinect game where you speak in your own voice and you can talk to npcs however you want using your own script, thats the only way I really see getting the kind of 'sandbox' RPG your talking about.

Because, even with silent PCs, your still using someone elses script and words, the only difference is you can pretend in your mind you hear it in the certain voice you want.

What's wrong with that? Is it better to have a voice over for a character that supposedly "ours" that doesn't convey the proper meaning or intent you wanted in the response you chose, or to choose the response yourself and know exactly what you meant is what is being said.

And as "archaic" as all the hip reviewers said that system was, it still beats choosing "You're wrong" and getting "You stupid idiot! You're getting in my way and wasting my time!"

[Addai]

LenaMarie wrote...

I think the only way some of you guys and girls will be happy is if someone made a really smart Kinect game where you speak in your own voice and you can talk to npcs however you want using your own script, thats the only way I really see getting the kind of 'sandbox' RPG your talking about.

Because, even with silent PCs, your still using someone elses script and words, the only difference is you can pretend in your mind you hear it in the certain voice you want.

Some of the scripted dialogue choices I didn't like, it's true, and I've read other complaints on the forum about the restriction of the dialogue choices given.  However, as I said upthread, negotiating the writer's control is one thing.  Forcing my PC to use a voice I may not like or find fitting is a step further down that continuum away from player control and immersion, and since it is game-breaking for me in Mass Effect, I find it a huge step.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Spear-Thrower wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...
And as "archaic" as all the hip reviewers said that system was, it still beats choosing "You're wrong" and getting "You stupid idiot! You're getting in my way and wasting my time!"

In that case, blame the implementation, not the system.

No reason why "you're wrong" and "you're wrong, you stupid idiot" can't both be on the wheel. All you're really doing is changing the tone of your reply.

Very true, there's nothing inherently wrong with the dialog wheel approach from an interface level.

It's the voicing part that causes issues, and without the voice over the wheel becomes unnecessary.

[RunCDFirst]

I suppose the pressing questions for the wheel are:

Do you make one selection and then your character finishes the conversation on their own?

Do the options on the wheel actually correspond with the responses from the character?

If Hawke is going to give a short response that fits on the wheel, will that actually be the choice on the wheel?



Really, the big problem with the wheel is the paraphrasing and hijacking of the conversation - in my eyes - than any actual curving graphic. The curving graphic just limits the length of the options the player can see. I can only see two options to combat that - either Hawke does more of the talking and the player just makes one or two selections in the conversation or Hawke only gives short responses.

[yasuraka.hakkyou]

[quote]Kalfear wrote...

No voice over is ever going to fully
replace what your imagination can summon up and I fully understand why
some people upset about that aspect thats going to be missing from DA2.

[/quote]

Exactly. I have a decent imagination, and I like what I can come up with for my characters. if it's being spoken for me, it doesn't really feel like my character. Mostly the reason I'm not happy about the fixed race / character. Hawke doesn't sound like she'll really be my character, somewhat similarly to how Shepard doesn't exactly feel mine either. I just feel like a random friend that tosses out a small idea now and again (if that makes any sense), rather than the actual character I'm playing.

[quote]Addai67 wrote...

[quote]LenaMarie wrote...

If I want to watch a movie, I'm switching brain to standby mode and sitting back to see what the director and actors have to present to me.  The twain (movies and games) have not met successfully.[/quote]

Me, YH: This is more of a rant against cinematic games. I mean, if I wanted to watch a movie, I don't have to spend as much money, for one, and two, it's a rather different mindset as Addai said. If I want to play games, I want to be interacting with things, not watching how things are turning out without my influence. Not totally accurate, I know, but you can hopefully see my point.

[quote]Mike2640 wrote...

*snip* Leliana being voiced isn't as
big an issue to me because it's a side story based on a character that
has already been established. As an earlier poster said we're not
Roleplaying Leliana, we're just learning more about her past.

I dont like the idea of the voiced PC and the dialogue wheel because,
based on what has been presented in Mass Effect, they're quite inferior
to the system Dragon Age Origins presented when it comes to roleplaying
and defining who you want your character to be.

So that's why I am given pause when I read through the changes being made for the sequel. It feels like, in my opinion, that you're taking steps backwards. I have no doubt Dragon Age 2 will be a good game.

[/quote]

Me, YH: Pretty close to what I think.

Hasn't
Bioware said that ME and DA are two different game styles? I'm confused
as to why Bioware thinks it's necessary to mix the two different games.
I could understand tweaking one game's style...

It does feel
that you're taking steps backwards, Bioware. Or at least taking away
our choices in a lot of regards, which is partly why so many of us love
DA I would imagine.

Modifié par yasuraka.hakkyou, 11 juillet 2010 - 04:43 .

[Tooneyman]

[quote]David Gaider wrote...

[quote]Brockololly wrote...

. In essence, however, it's less different than working with a regular PC choice list than I thought it would be... and we've also no paragon/renegade axis to tie ourselves to. Choices are just choices.



[/quote]

Basically what I got from this is their may or may not be the old intimade or persaude options do to skill and leveling. This kind of makes me feel sad.  I liked scaring the crap out of NPC!. It got me more money!

[Eludajae]

OriginsIsBest wrote...

No, I hate the Mass effect dialog. whats the point on your Character saying something comepletely different to what it says on screen?
Would it not just be better to actually say what it said on screen!

Point of fact you're over generalizing, in ME when you clicked on a response that was the response for someone that has a balance renagade and paragon status, if you played your character too fast and loose the response is a bit more gruf, if you played them more compasionate and disciplined your response was more acute to the individuals suffering. So yes they did not say what was there exactly all the time, but that was YOUR fault not the developers.

<_<

[Jack_cerberus]

"LenaMarie wrote...



I think the only way some of you guys and girls will be happy is if someone made a really smart Kinect game where you speak in your own voice and you can talk to npcs however you want using your own script, thats the only way I really see getting the kind of 'sandbox' RPG your talking about.



Because, even with silent PCs, your still using someone elses script and words, the only difference is you can pretend in your mind you hear it in the certain voice you want."



They could simply put kind of 2 narrators to a Male Pc Character and 2 more to a Female Pc character. One wthat looks like Badguy and the other kind of the paladin type! In way of speaking! I wouldnt mind if the character has a strange voice or even a different one from the ones on origins used only when you click on something or has low health. The real problem is that you had a lot of fun with the origins game Why dont simply make DA2 A BIIGGER awakening?



I hope they dont put any old character on DA2 so the new companions will have to be better than the old ones.



At lelianas Song i kind of liked sketch but the others UGH!!! Boring...

[Mike2640]

Eludajae wrote...

OriginsIsBest wrote...

No, I hate the Mass effect dialog. whats the point on your Character saying something comepletely different to what it says on screen?
Would it not just be better to actually say what it said on screen!

Point of fact you're over generalizing, in ME when you clicked on a response that was the response for someone that has a balance renagade and paragon status, if you played your character too fast and loose the response is a bit more gruf, if you played them more compasionate and disciplined your response was more acute to the individuals suffering. So yes they did not say what was there exactly all the time, but that was YOUR fault not the developers.

<_<

I'm not sure I get what you're saying, could you elaborate? How was it our fault that the dialogue wheels' paraphrased line was often not a very good representation of what the line actually was?