165 réponses à ce sujet

[Meuterei]

Dual wielding guns looks cool in the movies but in reality it does not work, otherwise people would actually be trained to do this (military, police, etc...). I could see maybe a supernatural ability enabling someone to do it but one of the things I like about this series is the realistic weapons handling (okay okay I know the thermal clips business is silly but I mean, the actual use, firing, and aiming, etc.)

I remember when I was on temp duty as the armory desk sergeant (I was in the service for 10 years) and some ****** kid asked why we don't offer two sidearms... we all died laughing. It's just not feasible.

Try it sometime. I did for laughs once at the training range just to show people the flaws. Recoil is less controllable even with a small pistol when you don't hold it with both hands, binocular vision is designed to center on a single object (good luck lining up the sights on two guns at once), etc etc...

If they DID put this in the game I'd definitely play a class that didn't use it.

Modifié par Meuterei, 11 juillet 2010 - 12:28 .

[Ninniach Lina]

Hanar can quadro-wield.

Biotics should be able to do similar amount of multi-wielding, if only through lifting fallen enemies gunns and pulling the trigger and shooting everything.


Soldier Shep could theoretically be able to dual-wield pistols seeing as he can already use his enchanced senses to go into adrenal mode.

[Meuterei]

Right, he can slow down time, but human eyes cannot look down the sights of two guns at once. What do you expect to hit? I suppose you could lay down suppressor fire, but that's dumb as hell with pistols, that's what assault rifles are for.

Not to mention suppressing fire is a waste of ammo due to ME's game mechanics.

Modifié par Meuterei, 11 juillet 2010 - 12:33 .

[Mecha Tengu]

Meuterei wrote...

Dual wielding guns looks cool in the movies but in reality it does not work, otherwise people would actually be trained to do this (military, police, etc...). I could see maybe a supernatural ability enabling someone to do it but one of the things I like about this series is the realistic weapons handling (okay okay I know the thermal clips business is silly but I mean, the actual use, firing, and aiming, etc.)

I remember when I was on temp duty as the armory desk sergeant and some ****** kid asked why we don't offer two sidearms... we all died laughing. It's just not feasible.

who cares about realism this is a video game in where fictional fields propel pieces of metal as weapons, all female mind raping prostitutes, and space gypsies that give nerds hard ons. We're here to have fun, and dual wielding pistols just looks damn cool, especially when combined with martial arts and slow mo.

I'm sure the arc projector and the nuke launcher is also "Realistic". As with the mega ipod that can shoot fireballs and frostbolts.

New york police officers often bring a second pistol as an alternative to reloading, and sometimes pull out the second one in tight cases. Russian special forces practice "Macedonian Shooting"

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

Meuterei wrote...

Dual wielding guns looks cool in the movies but in reality it does not work, otherwise people would actually be trained to do this (military, police, etc...). I could see maybe a supernatural ability enabling someone to do it but one of the things I like about this series is the realistic weapons handling (okay okay I know the thermal clips business is silly but I mean, the actual use, firing, and aiming, etc.)

I remember when I was on temp duty as the armory desk sergeant and some ****** kid asked why we don't offer two sidearms... we all died laughing. It's just not feasible.

who cares about realism this is a video game in where fictional fields propel pieces of metal as weapons, all female mind raping prostitutes, and space gypsies that give nerds hard ons. We're here to have fun, and dual wielding pistols just looks damn cool, especially when combined with martial arts and slow mo.

I'm sure the arc projector and the nuke launcher is also "Realistic". As with the mega ipod that can shoot fireballs and frostbolts.

New york police officers often bring a second pistol as an alternative to reloading, and sometimes pull out the second one in tight cases. Russian special forces practice "Macedonian Shooting"

That doesn't make dual-wielding good or cool.

[Rads GN006]

short answer: no, long answer: hell no, mass effect's combat system doesnt suit it (maybe dual pistols would have worked in me1 but me2 is a definite no go) main problem is that it is a third person shooter and because of that and the cover based system it now means it would not work, its not like halo where you are an unbeatable god with no knowledge of cover and all so you cna afford to be a doucher and run round acting cool with 2 smg's

[Meuterei]

In the case of police, it is a good alternative to reloading, but you'll rarely see one firing both at once - they draw the second and draw the first, unless they're in panic mode and the training falls out.



And no, the weapons aren't realistic, the game does, after all, take place in a very futuristic/sci-fi environment. I guess I just missed the boat on what's so "cool" about it, I've always seen it as rather silly. I wasn't really talking about the realism of the weapons themselves anyway, just the mechanics involved (aiming/handling/recoil/etc.) which I think are done very well, especially in ME2.



Either way, realism aside, I don't see how the aiming reticule would even work with two pistols. This would involve a change in aiming/shooting mechanics that I can't imagine being good or useful. If they brought back that circle nonsense with the skill aiming from ME1 just to make something silly like this work I'd probably blow a gasket.

[Khayness]

It's an antagonistic argument, I give up.

Cool vs. Impractical, nobody wins.

[Terror_K]

Originally I said that I though dual-wielding was a bit silly and Hollywood for Mass Effect, especially considering that any professional who fires a gun disregards it at being completely ineffective and stupid. But this was before we had people running around in space with only breathing masks to protect them, a means of introducing ammo that was a massive logic and technological leap backwards, and squaddies not wearing armour in a firefight. No... yeah, dual-wielding seems pretty minor a grievance now.

[Mecha Tengu]

aesthetics > realism in a fictional universe



you want realism go play an MMORPGFPS called Life. One mega server, no lag, no respawns

[Mecha Tengu]

Meuterei wrote...

Either way, realism aside, I don't see how the aiming reticule would even work with two pistols. This would involve a change in aiming/shooting mechanics that I can't imagine being good or useful. If they brought back that circle nonsense with the skill aiming from ME1 just to make something silly like this work I'd probably blow a gasket.

it would just be one crosshair, ever played Halo or counter strike? Aiming only one way, the only thing dual wield changes is the rate of fire compared to a single pistol

[The Unfallen]

AntiChri5 wrote...

No.

[TheKillerAngel]

Dual wielding in real life is really impractical because:
-It is inaccurate
-Lack of recoil control
-Reloading is more difficult

I am 100% aware of these limitations, and knowing them, I would never see dual-wielding as being reasonable in a game that features current-day technology.

However, if you can eliminate these problems, then it becomes more feasible. I think that the technology in the Mass Effect universe should be advanced enough to reduce or eliminate these problems, at least for some people.

It would be reasonable for Legion to dual wield since it is an AI and is not subject to the limitations that humans have - I doubt it would have a problem accurately controlling two guns. It would be somewhat reasonable to expect that advanced optics in headgear could enable accurate dual wielding since they would eliminate the need to look through the sights of your weapons. Imagine having something like an infrared laser projected from each gun, and your headgear shows a targeting reticule for the area your laser points at. It would require a person with extreme skill to target two objects at once, but with proper training it might be possible.

In Mass Effect 1 your weapons had infinite ammo (IDK how thats possible) so reloading wouldn't be an issue. As for heat sinks, I think ejecting one could be done very quickly with just 1 hand, like releasing a magazine. Recoil can be reduced through the design of the gun.

I think that the Mass Effect universe, you could implement dual wielding with cover by having it work in different ways, depending on the sort of cover you are behind. If you are behind a corner, you could shoot only 1 pistol while in cover, and once it runs out of ammo you immediately switch to the next. If you are under a wall, you could fire both at once.

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 11 juillet 2010 - 01:25 .

[Mecha Tengu]

dual wielding robot?



oooh yeah

[Myotonic]

I agree that dual-wielding is rather...not useful in the real world, just like holding your pistols sideways...which messes up your accuracy.

[Mx_CN3]

If they do dual wielding, it should be done as one gun, just as two pistols (see the...err... whatever the dual pistols were in Counter Strike) using the same crosshair. As for accuracy, I think it would be interesting to have wildly inaccurate dual pistols (or maybe SMGs) that you could only effectively use at point blank range, but do lots of damage. Essentially a shotgun without the force of impact (a possible way to differentiate the two weapon choices).

And, as mentioned by several people, it could be realistically done by Miranda (super human), Legion (robot), or Thane (incredible hand-eye coordination).

If for everyone that thinks it would make the combat too unrealistic: I can punch down an armored krogan playing a woman who is probably a third of its weight. In a matter of seconds.

[OneDrunkMonk]

When Bungie added the dual-wielding feature in Halo 2 my immediate thought was:



OK this is just silly, what a cheap game mechanic to make 14 year ADHD old fanboys drool for the sequel. Really, I preferred the single wield and spare grenade throwing left arm on occasion.



At any rate, guess what? It's far more believable to see a trained soldier hold a gun two-handed and aim than it is for dual-wielding SMGs sprays all over the place. Don't think it will happen in ME3 (thank God), Then again we have run-over-pick-up "heat sinks" in ME2...

[Meuterei]

Myotonic wrote...

I agree that dual-wielding is rather...not useful in the real world, just like holding your pistols sideways...which messes up your accuracy.

Not to mention turning the gun sideways can end up with hot shell casings hitting you in the face. Happened to my idiot cousin after he saw one of those dumb ass gangster TV shows...

[Meuterei]

Terror_K wrote...

Originally I said that I though dual-wielding was a bit silly and Hollywood for Mass Effect, especially considering that any professional who fires a gun disregards it at being completely ineffective and stupid. But this was before we had people running around in space with only breathing masks to protect them, a means of introducing ammo that was a massive logic and technological leap backwards, and squaddies not wearing armour in a firefight. No... yeah, dual-wielding seems pretty minor a grievance now.

Hahaha, you've got a point.
Still, though... Ugh. I guess I'm showing my age, but I just don't get at all what fascinates people so much about dual wielding guns.

Modifié par Meuterei, 11 juillet 2010 - 04:23 .

[TheKillerAngel]

Meuterei wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Originally I said that I though dual-wielding was a bit silly and Hollywood for Mass Effect, especially considering that any professional who fires a gun disregards it at being completely ineffective and stupid. But this was before we had people running around in space with only breathing masks to protect them, a means of introducing ammo that was a massive logic and technological leap backwards, and squaddies not wearing armour in a firefight. No... yeah, dual-wielding seems pretty minor a grievance now.

Hahaha, you've got a point.
Still, though... Ugh. I guess I'm showing my age, but I just don't get at all what fascinates people so much about dual wielding guns.

It just looks cool, I guess. Equilibrium certainly makes it look entertaining. Just don't try this in an actual gunfight or you'll leave in a body bag.

www.youtube.com/watch

[nubbers666]

think Dual wielding might be ok for heavy pistols only on solders as a bouns power reduced acc more ammo consume and ammo power up is not able to be used on it

[Niceral]

I hope not, it would look royally stupid. The only way to make it worse is if they tilted their guns when they fire.

[TheKillerAngel]

If I were to implement dual wielding weapons, it wouldn't be a talent that the player can level - it would be squad mate exclusive. Only characters such as Miranda, Thane, or Legion would be able to develop it, and it would be like an ammo power - you can toggle it on or off.

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 11 juillet 2010 - 06:33 .

[Burdokva]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

This is featured in many games. What are your thoughts on it? Should it have any place in the Mass Effect series?

Personally, I think it looks cool, but as someone who has an above-average knowledge of firearms and shooting, I know that it is extremely ineffective.

Well, there you go, you've answered it yourself - it's ineffective, and clumsy. Actually, dual wielding pistols is mostly used so that you can continue shooting (providing covering fire, for example) with the second pistol after the clip in the first is empty. Large-caliber pistols like the Desert Eagle put a heavy strain on the wrist and I doubt you could handle two of those without an injury. Even a 9mm Beretta or similar have a decent kick and you won't be able to aim well.

As for SMG... good luck firing an MP5 (something of an analogue to the in-game Tempest) with one hand!