165 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKillerAngel]

lol the Desert Eagle is such a joke of a weapon. Totally impractical in any serious combat situation.

[Niceral]

Right, because dual-wielding guns is totally practical.

[TheKillerAngel]

Niceral wrote...

Right, because dual-wielding guns is totally practical.

It could potentially be if you can eliminate the accuracy and recoil issues, which as of yet has not been done.

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 11 juillet 2010 - 06:40 .

[Khayness]

If you are going to use both of your hands you might aswell pick up an assault rifle. Just sayin'

[Niceral]

But you can't. Guns don't work like that, and because of that, it is extremely impractical.

[TheKillerAngel]

Khayness wrote...

If you are going to use both of your hands you might aswell pick up an assault rifle. Just sayin'

I wonder why my squad mates can't use them. I'd expect them to be trained right?

[Khayness]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

I wonder why my squad mates can't use them. I'd expect them to be trained right?

It would be easier to train them to use Assault Rifles than using two pistols at once.

[tmk]

I wanna dual-wield Cains in ME3!

Seriously though... go to your nearest arcade center and try it in one of those shooter games. Just pay for two players, grab two guns, and try to consistently aim with both at the same time. It's the ideal situation - no recoil, all targets are three feet in front of you, and there are two color-coded "crosshairs" telling you exactly where your shots will land. Yet it gives you a pretty good idea of just how ridiculous the whole concept is.

Modifié par tmk, 11 juillet 2010 - 06:46 .

[Khayness]

tmk wrote...

 Yet it gives you a pretty good idea of just how ridiculous the whole concept is.

But it looks cooooooooool

[tmk]

Actually, someone with both arms constantly stretched out ahead of him doesn't look very cool either...

[Niceral]

Cinema these days, so tacky.

[TheKillerAngel]

Niceral wrote...

But you can't. Guns don't work like that, and because of that, it is extremely impractical.

Right now the accuracy issue can't be easily resolved. Some gun designs can reduce recoil (see the TDI Super V). 

Theoretically, you could eliminate the accuracy issue by creating a system in which each gun is equipped with an infrared laser, which is linked to a visor that displays a targeting reticule where the laser points. Right now that's just not cost effective or practical - it's easier to train a person to accurately shoot/reload/etc with 1 gun than to train that person to manage 2 guns.

The issue of recoil would depend on the size of the bullet and the nature of the gun. A gauss gun, for example, would have no recoil.

tmk wrote...

I wanna dual-wield Cains in ME3!

Seriously though... go to your nearest arcade center and try in in one of those shooter games. Just pay for two players, grab two guns, and try to consistently aim with both at the same time. It's the ideal situation - no recoil, all targets are three feet in front of you, and there are two color-coded "crosshairs" telling you exactly where your shots will land. Yet it gives you a pretty good idea of just how ridiculous the whole concept is.

I would never advocate dual wielding anything larger than a pistol or SMG in a game. If I were to implement dual wielding weapons, it wouldn't be a talent that the player can level - it would be squad AI exclusive. Only characters such as Miranda, Thane, or Legion would be able to develop it, and it would be like an ammo power - you can toggle it on or off. Toggling it on sacrifices accuracy for increased single target DPS or something like that.

As for the arcade, I actually did that and fared pretty well lol. 

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 11 juillet 2010 - 06:53 .

[Khayness]

Looking at the OP's signup date I'm guessing he's failry new around here.

Mate you are bashing your head against a wall: the writers said no and the fanbase grabs their torches at the slighest hints of typical shooter ideas.

[TheKillerAngel]

Khayness wrote...

Looking at the OP's signup date I'm guessing he's failry new around here.
Mate you are bashing your head against a wall: the writers said no and the fanbase grabs their torches at the slighest hints of typical shooter ideas.

I'm not trying to advocate that it be implemented in the game, since I don't expect that. I'm just thinking of ways that its use could be explained, and my thoughts on the matter. 

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 11 juillet 2010 - 06:56 .

[Khayness]

And the arguments against it can be explained the same way.

[TheKillerAngel]

Why don't I just summarize my opinion in this post:

I completely understand the points against dual wielding firearms. It has no place in any hardcore-realist shooter in a modern setting, like Operation Flashpoint. However, I think it could be feasibly implemented in a science fiction universe, since technology can likely overcome the impracticalities that currently affect dual wielding.

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 11 juillet 2010 - 07:01 .

[Khayness]

This game isn't a shooter. Therefore your efforts are in vain.

[TheKillerAngel]

Khayness wrote...

This game isn't a shooter. Therefore your efforts are in vain.

It's an RPG with many shooter elements. Think of a Venn Diagram, it's the middle section.

[Niceral]

How often are guns actually dual-wielded? Hardly ever. Do you know why? Because it is inefficient.

[TheKillerAngel]

Niceral wrote...

How often are guns actually dual-wielded? Hardly ever. Do you know why? Because it is inefficient.

Never, but that's irrelevant. Again, I state that the issue of discussion is dual-wielding in a science fiction context, not a real life one. The technology featured in Mass Effect could eliminate the drawbacks and enable some people who already have superior coordination to use it effectively. Dual wielding could also be used by mechs and robots.

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 11 juillet 2010 - 07:11 .

[Niceral]

It's more than just an issue of handling, having to carry and maintain two firearms at the same time is not worth the effort.

[Khayness]

There are more efficent ways to fight in that science fiction content, therefore it's still useless.

Mitigating the disadvantages just for the sake of looking cool isn't viable in a world like Mass Effect.

Maybe in a setting where only pistols exist and everyone is one armed besides the protagonist.

[TheKillerAngel]

Well, if a squadmate could accurately dual wield weapons, that squadmate could target two enemies at once. That would be an advantage.

If we're going to talk about efficiency and realism, why don't all our squadmates get training in every weapon class? Jacob having proficiency in only shotguns and pistols makes no sense if he was ex-Alliance.

I would also have to wonder why I haven't seen anything like power armor (I do not consider any of the armor in Mass Effect to be like a powered exoskeleton), or weapons built into your armor, in Mass Effect. If you've taken a look at trailers for Ghost Recon Future Soldier, which features stuff that is in research or testing by DARPA, the Ghosts have small rocket launchers mounted on their shoulders, an exoskeleton, and other stuff that I'd imagine would be feasible in the context of Mass Effect.

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 11 juillet 2010 - 07:24 .

[Khayness]

BioWare changed that to simplify the game inventory because it was totally breaking up the immersion. In ME1 everyone used whatever you selected them to use. Maybe ask them.

[Niceral]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

If we're going to talk about efficiency and realism, why don't all our squadmates get training in every weapon class?

Why doesn't anyone just learn how to pilot ships? Or become architects? Or learn how to ride horses?

Because that is not how a character functions. They already have predetermined skills and abilities, and you are forcing on them to adopt new tactics for the sake of style.