165 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKillerAngel]

Kangasniemi wrote...

Too bad this forum doesn't have a search option so the OP could have checked the 200+ threads already made about this subject. Oh wait...

I know there are lots of threads about this, but mods tend to lock ones that get necro'd?

Where as ME has been designed to be realistic in the limits of the world created by BioWare. And dual wielding has been, up to this point, beyond the limits of ME universe and I pray it will stay that way.

But if they do implement dual wielding in the game it should work with ALL WEAPONS. And I do mean all, even dual wielding two Cains. Because justifying dual wielding by saying Shepard/Miranda/Thane/Niftu Cal is so super trained/super human that he can dual wield these guns but not those is just idiotic. If he/she/it is so super talented, he/she/it should be able to dual wield anything found in the game universe. 

All weapons? Dual wielding for small weapons makes more sense than dual wielding large weapons since they are lighter and produce less recoil. Dual wielding two large weapons also just looks clumsy.

I don't think saying that Miranda or Thane's abilities should allow them to only dual wield small weapons is idiotic. The Cain is a considerably heavier weapon than a pistol, so holding and aiming it single handedly would require upper body strength that Miranda or Thane are unlikely to have. Miranda and Thane might have superior coordination and aim but they aren't gods. Theoretically, it could be done if the user was equipped with an exoskeleton than handled most of the weight.

recoil isnt something the mass effect universe has fixed yet its been worked on sure, some of the weapon upgrades in mass effect 1 suggests that but its not even close to knocking recoil out enough to make it more stable to fire one handedly.

An exoskeleton could absorb much of the recoil.

Technically, "dual-wielding" already exists in the game - the YMIR mech has weapons on each arm. It can do that since, as a robot, it is not subject to human limitations. Thus, it wouldn't be unreasonable for a squad mate like Legion to accurately control two light guns.

I don't believe Shepard should be able to dual wield, but I think it would be an interesting option for characters that could reasonably do it.

[InfiniteCuts]

Kangasniemi wrote...

Equilibrium and Matrix are good action films. But they are designed to be as cool as possible. Not as cool as Versus, the universal definition of ultimate coolness, but still cool.

Where as ME has been designed to be realistic in the limits of the world created by BioWare. And dual wielding has been, up to this point, beyond the limits of ME universe and I pray it will stay that way.

But if they do implement dual wielding in the game it should work with ALL WEAPONS. And I do mean all, even dual wielding two Cains. Because justifying dual wielding by saying Shepard/Miranda/Thane/Niftu Cal is so super trained/super human that he can dual wield these guns but not those is just idiotic. If he/she/it is so super talented, he/she/it should be able to dual wield anything found in the game universe.

So because a character in this game just might be able to wield two pistols, that means all other weapons regardless of size or purpose are par for the course?  Just stop... really if this is the best you can bring to the table then you shouldn't respond at all.

Modifié par InfiniteCuts, 12 juillet 2010 - 12:31 .

[Khayness]

To all the people out there pointing at the CGI trailer and other media for DW evidence, check out the Sacred Ashes trailer and play DA:O.

[InfiniteCuts]

Khayness wrote...

To all the people out there pointing at the CGI trailer and other media for DW evidence, check out the Sacred Ashes trailer and play DA:O.

DAO or any other game is irrelevent to this discussion.  I posted those to show that the concept of dual-wielding has been present in some form within the creative process for Mass Effect.  With that in mind, there's nothing preventing its transition into actual gameplay.  Your personal preferences aren't the law when it comes to this game.  People argued against stealth with as much passion and lack of imagination as many of you do against dual-wielding, and look how that turned out.

[Khayness]

InfiniteCuts wrote...

Your personal preferences aren't the law when it comes to this game.

Truer words were never spoken. Now with that in mind, let's just leave this thread die finally and accept the fact that the developers don't want dual wielding in Mass Effect.

[TheKillerAngel]

Khayness wrote...

InfiniteCuts wrote...

Your personal preferences aren't the law when it comes to this game.

Truer words were never spoken. Now with that in mind, let's just leave this thread die finally and accept the fact that the developers don't want dual wielding in Mass Effect.

This thread first started as a means for me to gather opinion on the topic, then it evolved into a debate.

[InfiniteCuts]

Khayness wrote...

InfiniteCuts wrote...

Your personal preferences aren't the law when it comes to this game.

Truer words were never spoken. Now with that in mind, let's just leave this thread die finally and accept the fact that the developers don't want dual wielding in Mass Effect.

How about you find a link confirming this first?  While you're at it, here is a little more precedence for you.  Also, try not to speak for everyone... rather than let the thread die, you can always refrain from posting.

edit: does anyone else miss the days when developers actually posted/discussed things with us?

edit 2: ˅˅˅ on second thought, maybe the thread should die ˅˅˅

Modifié par InfiniteCuts, 12 juillet 2010 - 01:12 .

[luk3us]

Dual wielding is a good way of wasting ammo. Plus you look like a total douchebag instead of a professional solider.

[PD ORTA]

I say no. Dual wielding is a gimmick, that would bring nothing of significance to the game.

[ifander]

How does this still get brought up? Sigh...

This being a sci-fi universe, anything could be made to work. One could argue that greatly improved reflexes through neural implants and personal VI's to handle targeting makes it possible to simultaneously attack multiple enemies with acceptable accuracy. Powered exoskeletons could absorb the recoil. Sure. I've used the argument that dual-wielding is stupid, inaccurate and inefficient, and that is true, but in the future anything is possible. 

That being said, it really comes down to whether it fits the ME universe or not. From a gameplay aspect, it wouldn't add to the game in a positive way. It would be cool to be able to attack two enemies standing on opposite sides of each other, but it would be impossible to implement without, say, pausing the game and selecting them. That doesn't sound like a fun mechanic, it sounds like a gimmick that would get old, very quickly.

The only viable option then, from a gameplay perspective, is to simply gun down a single target with dual weapons, like all other implementations in all other games. Which basically plays like any other weapon, it's practically a cosmetic change. Now, would a soldier prefer to use two smaller weapons on a single target, knowing that despite his augmentations it would be harder to hit, or would he choose a stronger, single weapon? The only argument in favor of dual-wielding is the possibility of targeting two enemies simultaneously, and gameplay-wise, I just don't see that happening.

So no, no dual wielding, thanks.

Modifié par ifander, 12 juillet 2010 - 01:40 .

[TheKillerAngel]

As a final point to those who are pulling the "realism" card.

Taken from http://meforums.biow...forum=144&sp=15

Saying something in a fantasy is stupid because of the relative realism to the real world is just about the dumbest reason I can think of to not do something. By that logic there should be no Mass Effect Relays, no faster then light travel, and it should take a couple hundred thousand years of doing nothing on the Normandy just to get to the Citadel after you start the first game.

He puts it a bit harshly, but I think he raises a good point. While dual-wielding is infeasible right now (and will not be any time soon), it could be acceptable in the ME universe since they have advanced enough technology to eliminate its limitations, and allow users to take full advantage of using two weapons at once. Thus, it is an invalid argument to say that just because dual wielding right now is impractical, it must be impractical in a sci fi universe. Any arguments against the practicality of dual wielding in Mass Effect have to be made from an in-universe perspective.

If you can convince me that:

-A robot is as incapable of simultaneously wielding two weapons as a human
-An advanced targeting system that links to guns to optics built inside headgear is not enough to improve accuracy
-An exoskeleton or superior weapon design are not enough to reduce recoil
-Superior training or ability will allow a person to more easily master the use of two weapons at once, in conjunction with any of the above two systems

Then I will concede that dual wielding has ZERO place in any science fiction universe. I would never argue for dual wielding in a game like Operation Flashpoint, since it is a modern day combat simulator and there is no technology right now to enable effective dual wielding. However, if technology can enable faster than light travel, I am damn sure it can allow people to use two weapons at once. 

Anyway, if realism is a major point of the game they should start by eliminating sound in space scenes. That should bother fans of realism much more than dual wielding, since it has no plausible explanation.

The only viable option then, from a gameplay perspective, is to simply gun down a single target with dual weapons, like all other implementations in all other games. Which basically plays like any other weapon, it's practically a cosmetic change. Now, would a soldier prefer to use two smaller weapons on a single target, knowing that despite his augmentations it would be harder to hit, or would he choose a stronger, single weapon? The only argument in favor of dual-wielding is the possibility of targeting two enemies simultaneously, and gameplay-wise, I just don't see that happening.

I agree with this, which is why I think only specific squad mates could level it as a talent, were it to be implemented.

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 12 juillet 2010 - 01:55 .

[Homebound]

I dont see the point of dual-wielding. You're more accurate with one arent you?

[Johato]

Dw would be fine in Mass effect as long it isn't something stupid like 2 shotguns or 2 assault rifles, and To everyone thats saying its Unrealistic, Mass effect is a game not real life. Anything can happen in a game, Sheprad dieing and coming back to life is unrealistic, DW would be more real then dieing and coming back to life.



I support this thread

[mattahraw]

InfiniteCuts wrote...

Kangasniemi wrote...

Equilibrium and Matrix are good action films. But they are designed to be as cool as possible. Not as cool as Versus, the universal definition of ultimate coolness, but still cool.

Where as ME has been designed to be realistic in the limits of the world created by BioWare. And dual wielding has been, up to this point, beyond the limits of ME universe and I pray it will stay that way.

But if they do implement dual wielding in the game it should work with ALL WEAPONS. And I do mean all, even dual wielding two Cains. Because justifying dual wielding by saying Shepard/Miranda/Thane/Niftu Cal is so super trained/super human that he can dual wield these guns but not those is just idiotic. If he/she/it is so super talented, he/she/it should be able to dual wield anything found in the game universe.

So because a character in this game just might be able to wield two pistols, that means all other weapons regardless of size or purpose are par for the course?  Just stop... really if this is the best you can bring to the table then you shouldn't respond at all.

Can i just state, ME hasn't been designed to be realistic at all. It's a science fiction game where magic force fields can negate gravity and mass. Where giant ships harvest organic life. Networked AI become aware, ships can jump across the galaxy in a matter of minutes at infinite speed without infinite weight and aliens can meld with your minds.

Yeah, duel wielding pistols really isn't that much of a stretch. So relax!

[Kunim]

Meuterei wrote...

Dual wielding guns looks cool in the movies but in reality it does not work, otherwise people would actually be trained to do this (military, police, etc...). I could see maybe a supernatural ability enabling someone to do it ...

Hahaha. I can see Jack shooting one pistol in her hands and the other floating above her firing with biotics. Hehe...

[Gundar3]

As much as I would like to see dual wielding in ME 3 (actually I don't really care, but I certainly wouldn't mind it), I dont believe that it will be in ME3 sadly. Im pretty sure that devs have already said this but Im not sure if they were speaking in general for Mass Effect, or just for ME2...

[Braag]

haha, that would be hilarious. Just imagining Shepard dual wielding pistol makes me laugh.

[Mecha Tengu]

PD ORTA wrote...

I say no. Dual wielding is a gimmick, that would bring nothing of significance to the game.

oh yeah, and mind raping squid prostitutes and space gypsies which many nerds have a hard on for aren't gimmicks as well huh

[HTTP 404]

its not very necessary and when its in a game I tend not to use it. Makes my character look like a Mummy walking around. Halo Reach scrapped it.

[haberman13]

Real shooters have dual wield, honestly give me the shotgun/pistol combo.



Also, how about some 20th century weapons? A m4 carbine for instance.

[Mecha Tengu]

for the last time: the argument FOR dual wielding is the aesthetics.



This isn't a thread to discuss the practicallity of dual wielding mechanics in real life, because obviously it is not effective.



in the ME universe Thane and Miranda dual wield. Dual wielding requires much strength to absorb recoil and quick marksmanship so the added advantage of a double rate of fire actually means something. A trained assasin and an engineered human were able to do it. As said before, Legion would also do well dual wielding because his strong skeleton can handle the recoil

[Si-Shen]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

-snip-
in the ME universe Thane and Miranda dual wield. -snip-

I don't recall ANYTHING in the official codex saying they do, yes in some artwork and a promo video they were show with dual wielding, that does not mean the do.  BOTH are merely an artists opinion, much like how things in the Dragon Age vids were not ALL concidered accurate. 

What I can tell you IS that they single wield, we have proof, all you have to do is start your game.  When a Dev comes in and says "yes they dual wield" then and ONLY then do you have proof.

Again, dual wielding is over used, I for one, am happy to see something realistic when it comes to weapon handling. 

[Mecha Tengu]

The artwork and promo video were created by Bioware people, not some random nerds

and yeah man carrying a nuke launcher, a lighting launcher, and a gun that shoots black holes is really realistic

Modifié par Mecha Tengu, 12 juillet 2010 - 10:06 .