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[exorzist]

In Dragon Age 2, Much Like Mass Effect, You Will Only Be Allowed to Play As a Human Refugee



So I must admit to some irritation with the future of the Dragon Age games series. Don’t get me wrong, I am fairly open minded as a gamer, and the story of Dragon Age 2 seems epic in scale — but the fact that the true role playing element of choice has been removed is a bit of a slap in the face to those of us who played and enjoyed Dragon Age: Origins as an RPG. As a sequel to a game that is considered by the creators as the spiritual successor to one of the most popular roleplaying games of all time, I am left wondering this: what crushed that spirit?

Continue here ...

[Gill Kaiser]

The only choice we can say for sure that has been removed is the choice of race. Besides that, the actual extent of choice we are given about Hawke's origins and past are entirely up in the air. 'Refugee' is a wide-encompassing description. Anyone can become a refugee... it doesn't say that much about Hawke's past or character.

A fixed protagonist doesn't necessarily mean that the majority of the character isn't designed by the player. It just means that the writers are free to make the plot more dependant on who the protagonist is rather than what he or she is. One of the greatests classic CRPGs of all time, Planescape: Torment, gave us a fixed protagonist, and the story was intricately linked with The Nameless One's past as a result.

[Lord Gremlin]

Well, in Gothic 3 you can play only as a human and very certain human and can't customize your appearance. What really worries me is dialogue wheel...

Gothic style could be ok (when you read exactly what you're going to say).

[Lucy Glitter]

I kind of want to know what I am saying before I say it, as well.



Good article.

[OriginsIsBest]

I dont understand why? sure change is good but did they really have to change alot of thing people loved about it Dragon age.We dont need the Mass effect dialog, we shouldnt have to be there character and name either.



I just dont know how they will sell Dragon age 2 to people like me. When they took so much from the first game.

[Ninjatroll]

You couldn't choose your race (or gender) in Planescape Torment. That didn't stop it from becoming one of the (probably THE) most complex roleplayng experience you can have on a computer. The entire games plot was about your character and what defined him. The phrase "Who is the hero of Kirkwall" that is mentioned sounds to me that they are aiming for something like that this time. This is not a story about how you save the world. This is a story about YOU. How is that not a RPG.

[Lenyth]

You still have the option to choose if you are a mage, warrior or rouge. I honestly think "Hawke" is just the default character, an example. In a trailer for Dragon Age: Origins, they had their own verison of the Warden/Hero of Ferelden, it didn't mean you could not create your own character. I believe "Hawke" is simply a surname, much like "Shepard" in the Mass Effect series. The only option that seems to be left out is the race selection, but we can't even safely say that the option is entirely ruled out. Personally, I would enjoy to see the options we had in DA:O come back in Dragon Age II.
We will have to wait and see. The game is still currently in development, changes will be made.

[Layn]

oh stop with the doom and gloom. Yes there are a lot of things to worry about, But just because the infos that have been released have been disappointing doesn't mean that this won't be sort of close to traditional RPGs and that Bioware will no longer make them.



such statements can only be made when the game is completely revealed. until then let's be satisfied with voicing our fears about what the game might turn into

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ninjatroll wrote...
This is not a story about how you save the world. This is a story about YOU. How is that not a RPG.

No, this is a story about Hawke, whom we direct.

And it is an RPG in the sense we assume Hawke's role. But compared to Origins where we have much more say in our characters origins / backgrounds and personality, that's a downgrade.

[Ecael]

[quote]exorzist wrote...

Continue here ...[/quote]
Why didn't you just place the whole article in your thread?

And as I've said before...

[quote]The RPG everyone is nostalgic about hasn't existed ever since they introduced:

• Full voice acting with lip-sync
• Realistic graphics with facial expressions and uncanny valley humans
• Immersive cinematic cutscenes
• In-depth romanceable characters/companions
• Console RPGs or RPG ports.

The writers will always be limited to how much all those listed above will cost (and how much time it will take) for all the other dev teams to produce.

[FlyinElk212]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

The only choice we can say for sure that has been removed is the choice of race. .

That's not entirely accurate. Right from the get-go, Bioware's made sure to tell us that this Hawke is the main character. Therefore, while character customization of Hawke may be diverse, this will still definitely be HAWKE'S story, not ours. I'd like to say that Bioware has in mind an arc for this character, and that most of our choices will be forced to follow this arc in a "third-person narrative format" very similar to the Mass Effect Series.

Which is why I absolutely, ABSOLUTELY hate this new direction Dragon Age is taking. Bioware, what are you thinking? Mass Effect is your third person narrative, Dragon Age is your FIRST person narrative! Dragon Age gave the players the best sense of individuality, and now, you're destroying it by following a path you've already taken in one of your previous series!

Seriously, Bioware?

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 10 juillet 2010 - 01:03 .

[Ecael]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

The only choice we can say for sure that has been removed is the choice of race. .

That's not entirely accurate. Right from the get-go, Bioware's made sure to tell us that this Hawke is the main character. Therefore, while character customization of Hawke may be diverse, this will still definitely be HAWKE'S story, not ours. I'd like to say that Bioware has in mind an arc for this character, and that most of our choices will be forced to follow this arc in a "third-person narrative format" very similar to the Mass Effect Series.

Which is why I absolutely, ABSOLUTELY hate this new direction Dragon Age is taking. Bioware, what are you thinking? Mass Effect is your third person narrative, Dragon Age is your FIRST person narrative! Dragon Age gave the players the best sense of individuality, and now, you're destroying it by following a path you've already taken in one of your previous series!

Seriously, Bioware?

How was Dragon Age ever in a first person narrative? You could even control your own companions and let your own PC behave by the tactics you set for them. Not only that, the NPCs never gave the impression that they were talking to you, but talking at your character instead.

Modifié par Ecael, 10 juillet 2010 - 01:09 .

[Hulk Hsieh]

Where does the illusion of Bioware is a traditional RPG creator come from?

Modifié par Hulk Hsieh, 10 juillet 2010 - 01:11 .

[R.U.N]

In Dragon Age 2, Much Like Mass Effect, You Will Only Be Allowed to Play As a Human Refugee

[Lenyth]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

The only choice we can say for sure that has been removed is the choice of race. .

That's not entirely accurate. Right from the get-go, Bioware's made sure to tell us that this Hawke is the main character. Therefore, while character customization of Hawke may be diverse, this will still definitely be HAWKE'S story, not ours. I'd like to say that Bioware has in mind an arc for this character, and that most of our choices will be forced to follow this arc in a "third-person narrative format" very similar to the Mass Effect Series.

Which is why I absolutely, ABSOLUTELY hate this new direction Dragon Age is taking. Bioware, what are you thinking? Mass Effect is your third person narrative, Dragon Age is your FIRST person narrative! Dragon Age gave the players the best sense of individuality, and now, you're destroying it by following a path you've already taken in one of your previous series!

Seriously, Bioware?

Point taken.
They probably want the sequal to Dragon Age to be as successful as Mass Effect 2.
Though I would like to be open minded about the changes. They may not be so bad as everyone thinks they will be.
It's a new direaction for Dragon Age and I think we should embrace it.
We don't know for sure if the game will be good or not unless we play it, which we wont for months now.

[Hulk Hsieh]

Let's see...



Bhaalspawn, what ever the race is, a child of a dead God and raised in Candle Keep

Revan, a human and a former Sith lord.

The Kung-Fu guy in JE, a human and the child of someone important and the discpile of Master Li



Those are quite predetermined too, actually.

[Brockololly]

Good article.

I'm sure DA2 will be a fine game, but a third person, cinamtic narrative isn't what I want out of Dragon Age- I've got Mass Effect or any number of other Mass Effect copy cats for that.

What makes all the news so disheartening about the changes being made to Dragon Age was that Origins was really the last old school RPG a la Baldur's Gate on the market. It was the last of its kind, a dying breed. Yet apparently it was well received even with its more traditional mechanics. So why homogeneize Dragon Age with so many buzzword features that every other modern RPG claims to have?

I was really, really looking forward to DA2 as another great old school RPG- a successor to BG2. BioWare does good work and I'm sure DA2 will garner all sorts of attention and awards from critics and ME fans for being a "bold" departure from everything "old" and "traditional" about Origins. For me, however any interest I have in this game is really on life support. I'll surely wait and hear out BioWare on the changes to the dialogue system and everything else, but as of now this whole about face in the direction of Dragon Age honestly feels like a kick in the mouth to every long time BioWare fan that bought in to the world of Dragon Age precisely because it was a throwback and not a Mass Effect clone.

Modifié par Brockololly, 10 juillet 2010 - 01:25 .

[FlyinElk212]

Ecael wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

The only choice we can say for sure that has been removed is the choice of race. .

That's not entirely accurate. Right from the get-go, Bioware's made sure to tell us that this Hawke is the main character. Therefore, while character customization of Hawke may be diverse, this will still definitely be HAWKE'S story, not ours. I'd like to say that Bioware has in mind an arc for this character, and that most of our choices will be forced to follow this arc in a "third-person narrative format" very similar to the Mass Effect Series.

Which is why I absolutely, ABSOLUTELY hate this new direction Dragon Age is taking. Bioware, what are you thinking? Mass Effect is your third person narrative, Dragon Age is your FIRST person narrative! Dragon Age gave the players the best sense of individuality, and now, you're destroying it by following a path you've already taken in one of your previous series!

Seriously, Bioware?

How was Dragon Age ever in a first person narrative? You could even control your own companions and let your own PC behave by the tactics you set for them. Not only that, the NPCs never gave the impression that they were talking to you, but talking at your character instead.

Perhaps I misspoke then. What I meant to say was that, with Dragon Age Origins, there was no "canon Warden". You could essentially create "yourself" to place in the story. Every decision presented gave off the impression that YOU were making the decision, YOU were influencing the story, simply because there was no set main character to play as: in essence, YOU were the main character.

Making Hawke the main character destroys this feeling. In essence, Bioware is saying, "Hey, here's OUR character. Now you have to play as him/her." They've even voiced the character, and stated that its HAWKE'S story.

@ Lenyth- Not to quote you or anything, but point taken. lol--it is a little early to have this strong of an opinion, but honestly, it's a crushing blow that Bioware's taken away what was the best part of Dragon Age Origins for me.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 10 juillet 2010 - 01:29 .

[Lenyth]

@brock: Finally, some optimism.

Modifié par Lenyth, 10 juillet 2010 - 01:30 .

[Gill Kaiser]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

The only choice we can say for sure that has been removed is the choice of race. .

That's not entirely accurate. Right from the get-go, Bioware's made sure to tell us that this Hawke is the main character. Therefore, while character customization of Hawke may be diverse, this will still definitely be HAWKE'S story, not ours. I'd like to say that Bioware has in mind an arc for this character, and that most of our choices will be forced to follow this arc in a "third-person narrative format" very similar to the Mass Effect Series.

By this same logic, DA:O was the Warden's story, "not ours". The only difference (besides the lack of race options, as I said) is that we now have a set surname rather than a title.

[Gegenlicht]

Dragon Age is intended to be their big fantasy franchise, like ME is for sci fi.



I think it's fair to let them play around with the formats. ME works great for me, with its movie-like elements. Would I rather have more choice for my character and a more open world? Yes, always. But more character choice comes at the cost of a more generic feel to the world as they can't tailor the experience to a somewhat predefined character, and the same thing goes for totally open worlds without major plots.



ME with its loosely predefined character allows for them to have everything you say fully voiced, as will 'DA2'. That is an additional layer of immersion which would be a pain to do if you want to give people the level of freedom in creating their character as they offered in DA:O. Not only would there be a boatload of extra text to write and record, if you wanted to give people the full range of races and voices you had in DA:O, you'd need to bring in several dozen actors to read those voices.



Likewise, the NPCs referring to you by name goes a great way towards immersion for me. Always having to find neutral descriptors like 'the Grey Warden' or 'the Hero of Ferelden' feels awkward to me. That said, Hawke IS a terrible choice. All I can think of in this context is an 80s b-movie called Hawk the Slayer, which was ridiculously dumb. Shepard from ME is borderline overt (and off if you're playing Renegade), but Hawke is just over that line.





Yes, choice is always good. But for immersiveness and smoothness of the gaming experience, less choice may just be better.



Plus, we'll always have DA:O. With its moddability, everyone who's unhappy with the direction of the DA franchise can make their own modules and relive that gameplay.

[Hulk Hsieh]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

The only choice we can say for sure that has been removed is the choice of race. .

That's not entirely accurate. Right from the get-go, Bioware's made sure to tell us that this Hawke is the main character. Therefore, while character customization of Hawke may be diverse, this will still definitely be HAWKE'S story, not ours. I'd like to say that Bioware has in mind an arc for this character, and that most of our choices will be forced to follow this arc in a "third-person narrative format" very similar to the Mass Effect Series.

By this same logic, DA:O was the Warden's story, "not ours". The only difference (besides the lack of race options, as I said) is that we now have a set surname rather than a title.

Actually, we do have surnames in DA:O...

[Gill Kaiser]

Yeah, but that doesn't really back up my point because they were different surnames for each origin, and the OP's point is bemoaning the lack of choice between origins. I mean "set" as in the player has no choice in the matter. In DA:O, we were always the Warden. In DA2, we are always someone with the surname Hawke and the nebulous refugee backstory. How much of a change it turns out to be will depend upon how much choice the player is given to flesh out Hawke's backstory themselves.

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 10 juillet 2010 - 01:40 .