102 réponses à ce sujet

[Eshaye]

I love Mass Effect and ME2 to bits, but I liked that Dragon Age was someting different then that, more traditional and reminiscent of pen and paper. I feel from the info so far that this is getting removed and I can't help but feel sad about it.



They made a big deal out of DA being a throw back to older styles of RPG's like Baldur's Gate and now are just stripping it away. I can't say I understand the logic.

[Gill Kaiser]

I'm easy like Sunday morning. So long as the writing is good and I have the ability to connect and shape the character that I'm playing, I'm good. Being given a single protagonist doesn't bother me, provided he/she is customisable in appearance, personality and abilities.

So long as the old-school RPG character progression is intact, it's fine. I love levelling up and working out my character build. I love obsessing over which spells to choose. That should all still be there, so I don't have a problem.

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 10 juillet 2010 - 05:29 .

[tmp7704]

exorzist wrote...

In Dragon Age 2, Much Like Mass Effect, You Will Only Be Allowed to Play As a Human Refugee

It may be memory playing tricks on me, but this isn't really different from what was the "options" the player had in Knights of the Old Republic. As such, it's not really anything new for BioWare games... and it predates ME by quite a bit.

[Talonfire]

tmp7704 wrote...

exorzist wrote...

In Dragon Age 2, Much Like Mass Effect, You Will Only Be Allowed to Play As a Human Refugee

It may be memory playing tricks on me, but this isn't really different from what was the "options" the player had in Knights of the Old Republic. As such, it's not really anything new for BioWare games... and it predates ME by quite a bit.

To be fair though Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights (the two BioWare titles that Dragon Age: Origins is most similar to) still allowed you to pick your race, even if you were saddled to a specific origin (Gorion's Ward, Academy Student). However in the Forgotten Realms I don't think being an Elf is as big of a deal as it is in the Dragon Age setting, so they didn't have to account for that variable in those games as much as they would have to in Dragon Age 2.

[Kortok]

Combat in the PC version is unchanged for the most part. And let's be honest, your origin was pre-determined in Baldur's Gate, so I don't see what all the fuss is about.



I would like to play as a dwarf, but I'm not a moron and fully understand why we have to play as a human. Plus there will be at least one dwarf npc.

[JohnF1986]

Now how anyone comes to the conclusion that a character that is restricted to one race will lead to the game banishing choice from it, is completely beyond me.

[Dileos]

Kortok wrote...

Combat in the PC version is unchanged for the most part. And let's be honest, your origin was pre-determined in Baldur's Gate, so I don't see what all the fuss is about.

I would like to play as a dwarf, but I'm not a moron and fully understand why we have to play as a human. Plus there will be at least one dwarf npc.

Agreed.

Sadly alot of people saw Orgins as "Baby's first RPG" due its massive console release. Games like Gothic and Baldurs Gate pulled off the lack of origins very well.

[MerinTB]

It's clear -



for some the cinematic experience and voice trump the choice and customization that picking your race and such adds.

for others it's the other way around.



I'd rather pick my fantasy race than have a voiced PC. That's my preference.

I'd rather pick my last name than have an intricately woven (but universal to all playthroughs) backstory. That's my preference.

I'd rather my character be more of an "everyman" that people don't call out by name in VO. In fact, I'd be happy with NO VO for the NPCs as well if it gave me more customization of who I am. A string that stores my name, another for my hometown, and so on, that later dialog from NPCs can call upon is, IMO, superior to being given a last name, a specific place I have to be from, and so on, just so some VO can say that name, place, etc.



Those are my preferences. It doesn't mean I can't enjoy the opposite, but I prefer what I prefer. DAO gave me a lot of this, and this simple design decision takes much of that away.

That doesn't make the game bad or good, overall - it just means that a simple element that I love has been taken from me and I'm not happy about it. I could still love the game. I loved FFXIII and I loved ME1 & ME2 - but those are different kinds of games from DAO, and DAO was the kind of game I was waiting a long time for as I prefer crafting my own character as opposed to playing a game writer's character.



Other's preferences may vary. But telling each other that "you're wrong because your preference is different than mine" is an exercise in sheer futility.

[ArcanistLibram]

I'd rather have Dragon Effect than another disappointing experience like Awakening, honestly.

[errant_knight]

I simply couldn't agree more. I'm not only disillusioned and irritated, I feel like they brought me into the Dragon Age world with a bait and switch tactic. I'm quite pissed off. And I simply don't understand. Origins sold very well. It won awards. Why would they screw us over like this? If they only cared about making mass market games, why did they make Origins to begin with? I didn't play Mass Effect because I didn't like the very things they are doing to Dragon Age. Does every single game have to be made for exactly the same market? I suppose I should acknowledge that I didn't expect anyone to put out a game like Origins in the first place, so at least I have that. What? I thought they'd make two games that I loved that much? More the fool, I.

[In Exile]

Crrash wrote...

i mean, seriously, isn't it clear that there are two groups of gamers here? the ones who want to roleplay and then the ones who want a cinematic experience? i don't think i'm assuming anything wrongly

Not everyone has the same definition of role-playing. To put it in a simplified manner, to some of us, role-playing is about the possible consequences in the world, not the number of things we can imagine that the game does not explicitly contradict.

For some, being a Dalish elf means you can pretend your martial skill and success is because you've been blessed by the Elven gods and even that you have visions at night to be guided by them. Nothing in the game contradicts this, so to one crowd, this is fun role-playing.

Not to me. To me, that's fan fiction. For me to roe-play, the game has to acknowledge it.

[Layn]

so, we have the same definition of roleplaying. good.

i've never talked about wanting freedom to roleplay stuff that the game doesn't acknowledge. But roleplaying depends for me on the inner workings of the character. what motivates them, what they feel, how they react to things, and the way DA2 seems to deal with it, this will be impossible. It disappoints me and i'm sad that one of the few games that allowed this has changed to accomodate people who only like a style of game that already exist plentyfully. that's it.

Modifié par Crrash, 10 juillet 2010 - 06:07 .

[Rubbish Hero]

The coding on this forum is very anoying.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 10 juillet 2010 - 06:12 .

[Zanderat]

Brockololly wrote...

Good article.

I'm sure DA2 will be a fine game, but a third person, cinamtic narrative isn't what I want out of Dragon Age- I've got Mass Effect or any number of other Mass Effect copy cats for that.

What makes all the news so disheartening about the changes being made to Dragon Age was that Origins was really the last old school RPG a la Baldur's Gate on the market. It was the last of its kind, a dying breed. Yet apparently it was well received even with its more traditional mechanics. So why homogeneize Dragon Age with so many buzzword features that every other modern RPG claims to have?

I was really, really looking forward to DA2 as another great old school RPG- a successor to BG2. BioWare does good work and I'm sure DA2 will garner all sorts of attention and awards from critics and ME fans for being a "bold" departure from everything "old" and "traditional" about Origins. For me, however any interest I have in this game is really on life support. I'll surely wait and hear out BioWare on the changes to the dialogue system and everything else, but as of now this whole about face in the direction of Dragon Age honestly feels like a kick in the mouth to every long time BioWare fan that bought in to the world of Dragon Age precisely because it was a throwback and not a Mass Effect clone.

Agreed.  DAO sold over 3.2 million copies.  Why do they feel the need to turn it into medieval ME2?

[Zanderat]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

Traditional RPGs doesn't usually have multiple origins to select from.
It is creatred in TOEE and borrowed in DA:O and made better.
It is a very new feature that Bioware experimented once.

Er, the entire TES universe?  Or Wizardry 6-8? Or..........

[Zanderat]

Bitterfoam wrote...

I've a similar question to the TC's:

Why is it people feel the need to cry about how the sky is falling when they see one change they apparently do not like?

The dialohue wheel(and its implications) IS a pretty big  (negative) change.

[Zanderat]

dp

Modifié par Zanderat, 10 juillet 2010 - 06:23 .

[In Exile]

Crrash wrote...

i've never talked about wanting freedom to roleplay stuff that the game doesn't acknowledge. But roleplaying depends for me on the inner workings of the character. what motivates them, what they feel, how they react to things, and the way DA2 seems to deal with it, this will be impossible. It disappoints me and i'm sad that one of the few games that allowed this has changed to accomodate people who only like a style of game that already exist plentyfully. that's it.

And here is where I think we disagree. To me, roleplaying doesn't depend on the inner state of the character; that's something that comes out in how they act. But it's action that drives role-playing and the potential for it in the world.

Take a betrayal by a party NPC. In your view, the role-playing comes from how you think about how the character thinks about the different options (e.g. dialogue choices) possible. It kind of an inner dialetic process. In my view, role-playing is just about the actions - I'm angry only if the dialogue option I chose shows I'm angry, and I chose it because it seemed to fit best; there's to reflection, and the focus is on action.

Like I said in another thread, though: you're absolutely wrong about having more of this game versus the so-called traditional RPGs. Alpha Protocol and the Witcher barely count. Mass Effect 1&2 do. And these are all the available games. 4 of them.

Traditional RPGs have Fallout 1&2, BG 1&2, NWN 1&2, IWD 1&2, KoTOR 1&2, DA:O. That's more than 10 games not counting expansions over more than a decade and a half.

[Zanderat]

Wyndham711 wrote...

My first thought after hearing what DA2 was going to be about, was that this is akin to a spinoff, not so much a sequel. The sweeping changes in the style of the game would be much easier to accept if this wasn't labeled as a true sequel.

My thoughts exactly.  Still disappointed though.

[Zanderat]

JohnF1986 wrote...

Now how anyone comes to the conclusion that a character that is restricted to one race will lead to the game banishing choice from it, is completely beyond me.

The dialogue wheel did that for me.

[FlyinElk212]

In Exile wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

That's not entirely accurate. Right from the get-go, Bioware's made sure to tell us that this Hawke is the main character. Therefore, while character customization of Hawke may be diverse, this will still definitely be HAWKE'S story, not ours. I'd like to say that Bioware has in mind an arc for this character, and that most of our choices will be forced to follow this arc in a "third-person narrative format" very similar to the Mass Effect Series.

How was DA our story at all? DA was a "Grey Warden's" story, and despite some throw-away dialogue options, the game fought hard to force you to be a Grey Warden and care about their mission. DA:O wasn't so bad with the giving a damn about the Wardens, but DA:A is a story that is actually impossible for any character that does not want to serve the Wardens.

Seriously, DA:A makes character builds from DA:O impossible. How is that in any way ownership?

How was DA:O, at the landsmeet, preventing you from convincing the Banns/Arls to make a Human Noble king over all other possible heirs, "our" story?

DA:O just made every character a side player that happened to stop the blight and potentially died doing it; nothing else is under your control.

Shepard drives ME. If Hawke is a driving force in DA2, that's a major improvement.

You're talking as though the  game should have limitless amounts of choices and possible outcomes, which is just impossible. Bioware HAD to constrain the choices because that's the only thing they could do. We have to follow the path of the Warden because Bioware can't possibly pack so many choices in a game while progressing the story. Saying that it's not our story because we have to side with the Wardens is unfair from a game developing standpoint.

What I meant by "our story" was that every choice we made, WITHIN the constraints that Bioware set for us (because they had to--Bioware doesn't have unlimited resources), really did feel like "our choice". We weren't telling the main character to choose to side with Bhelen or Harrowmont. We didn't hear the main character's voice as he made his decision. WE made the decision, with OUR main character, in whatever tone of voice WE decided in our heads. We were the main character.

See what I mean? Now with the inclusion of Hawke, we'll never have that feeling of immersion again. Ultimately, we will be TELLING HAWKE what decision to make. Hawke is the main character. It's his story that we're playing through now.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 10 juillet 2010 - 06:35 .

[Anathemic]

I'm just going to put this out here, how DA2 is a step down from DA:O in sense of immersion:

Quoted from the back of the Dragon Age: Origins game case:

"You are a Grey Warden, one of the last of a legendary order of guardians. With the return of an ancient foe and kingdom engulfed in a civil warm you have been chosen by fate to unite the shattered lands and slay the archdemon once and for all."



Note the uses of 'you' and from the beginning 'you are'.





Quoted from DA2 website:

"Experience the epic sequel to the 2009 Game of the Year from the critically acclaimed makers of Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2. You are one of the few who escaped the destruction of your home. Now, forced to fight for survival in an ever-changing world, you must gather the deadliest of allies, amass fame and fortune, and seal your place in history. This is the story of how the world changed forever. The legend of your Rise to Power begins now."



Okay this is alright so far, but what's this?



Quoted from "Five Facts about Hawk":

"5. Hawke drives the story.

Dragon Age II is not about killing an ancient evil or about quelling another blight; Hawke is the driving force behind the narrative. Over the course of the game's 10-year timeline, players' actions and choices will determine Hawke's history, relationships, and regrets...all in service to answering the larger question: Who is the Champion of Kirkwall?"





Okay what? you say it's my story on the website now you say it's Hawkes story and his narrative? What happened to me?

[Gill Kaiser]

You are Hawke.

[Anathemic]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

You are Hawke.

Yes I'm Hawke, with his/her voice, not my voice, with a staple fact that he/she is human, Hawke cannot be dwarf, elf, qunari, werewolf, or any other race because that's not me, I'm human and I have to be human, thus Hawke has to be human, there's no room for creatitivy or imagination, just cruel hard fact

[Samb84]

When they released DA:O they said it was going back to the classic RPGs like Balders gates and Neverwinter and many of us sheared with happiness.



Now they are just gutting it they are basically telling us that well this game did alot of money but we believe that it can make even more if we change it to accomandate the non-classic rpg fans... So they are abandoning us...



What could we have done differenly so that the DA franchise would stay like it was?



I bought DA:O and Awakening to both my xbox and my pc and thought that they would realize that the reason why the game did so well was because we fans wanted more of the same...



What could we have done differenly???