30 réponses à ce sujet

[moteh]

Seriously, it's been two days since the announcement and with almost no information to go on people are going bonkers saying how Bioware has killed off everything that made DAO good.  It's just more of the same, the internet always delivers...
Metroid is going first person, that not going to be good, it's going to ruin the franchise (ended up becoming a huge trilogy with massive fan support)...
Zelda going cel-shaded is a travesty (ended up being an awesome adventure that aged amazingly well graphically)...
 Fallout 3 is not isometric, it's Oblivion with guns, the great things from the first two games are striped out, etc. etc. (ended up being Bethesda's biggest hit when it released and created a huge fan following, including most of the early critics)...
 Dragon Age Origins has trash music for it's commercials, bad graphics, no VO for the player, no immersion, they are just shooting themselves in the foot (ended up being the biggest game for Bioware at that point)...
So many naysayers, so many awesome games.

Heck, there are still people on the Steam L4D2 boycott group and the Modern Warfare 2 boycott group that had the game first day, despite their hatred of some small thing and their claim that they would not buy the game.

Everyone blows everything out of proportion.  You people will complain and moan, and then as you hear more info on the game most of you will start to come around again like you never had a doubt at all.  I can pretty much guarantee that when the game releases most of the naysayers here now will be purchasing it day one, it always works that way.

Modifié par moteh, 10 juillet 2010 - 07:50 .

[Vengeful Nature]

Here, here!

[rooky91]

Well the little info we have says that alot has changed. People don't like change.

[Olof85]

Well of course. I have stated before that I think most people overreact and blow things out of porportions. However to voice concerns and have opinions regarding something you love isnt something I will criticize people for.

[moteh]

I have no problem with people voicing their opinions, nor do I mind if they are giving knee-jerk reactions. I guess I just expect people talking about character choices and immersions and depth (rather than the normal gamer topics like graphics) to also be a bit more logical that many people on this forum are being right now.

[forestmaiden86]

I know that everyone will rush out to buy DA2, and that it prob will still have a great story line behind it and awesome graphics but for me, I have moved away from rpg games lately because most are all online now and you feel like one in a crowd, while I like the epic adventure and the character creation makes me feel like part of the story sure you dont control all of the character as in the origins but you still had options and able to choose name, appearence, abilities, sex and in the end it was still your character. I cant see Hawke providing that for me and as such since DA was the first game in years that hooked me so much that i have replayed it while other games i never finish i'm just left feeling disappointed.

[CaseyPreston]

The problem is that bioware listens to the opinions of the nobs on this forum, and unfortunately the said individuals do not know what they want, its fun to complain and nitpick so that's what they did, bioware changed a lot form mass effect 1 to 2 because of the numbskulls on the forums and then the same people began whining because of the changes (personally I loved them). PLEASE PEOPLE WAIT TILL YOU AHVE PLAYED THE GAME BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE AND REMEMBER THAT THIS IS BIOWARES GAME, NOT YOURS!

[moteh]

forestmaiden86 wrote...

I know that everyone will rush out to buy DA2, and that it prob will still have a great story line behind it and awesome graphics but for me, I have moved away from rpg games lately because most are all online now and you feel like one in a crowd, while I like the epic adventure and the character creation makes me feel like part of the story sure you dont control all of the character as in the origins but you still had options and able to choose name, appearence, abilities, sex and in the end it was still your character. I cant see Hawke providing that for me and as such since DA was the first game in years that hooked me so much that i have replayed it while other games i never finish i'm just left feeling disappointed.

DA was the first game that hooked me because I am a huge fan of character creation, if a game doesn't have character creation anymore I tend to not play it.  and I'm talking DEEP character creation, origins and everything, I even make up my own back stories when I can't get them in game.  However, saying I am a penniless refugee doesn't change much, especially in DA.  In every origin except maybe mage you ended up a penniless refugee basically.  If I get to choose something from a dialog box that allows me to change one thing that happend before I started playing as Hawke, I consider that being a replacement for the hour of needless gameplay at the beginning of DAO.

IMHO, the only thing people have lost is race, and rarely was that an issue in the first game.

I don't mean to argue forestmaiden86, your opinion is probably the best voiced for not liking the changes so far.  They might change, you never know.

[Giltspur]

Yeah, people respond to fear more than they do to hope. Granted, people's fears may come to be realized. Having something cool that one time stood out and made you feel better about gaming (or music or movies) get "mainstreamed" and screwed up is an experience everyone has had. Popularity sure can ruin a thing as people try to expand on that popularity in a sequel.  So I understand the fears. But I notice that people are focused on how things can go wrong instead of on how things can go right.

For example people (myself included at first) hone in on the potential downsides of this "...fight like a Spartan with dynamic new combat mechanics" and don't pay attention to the potentially cool elements of this "[t]hink like a general".

And generally you see people saying "Omg, my character doesn't import. Nothing I did matters!" or "No origins! Gg, Bioware!" instead of wondering what Bioware has instead of Origins and what will come of "shapes itself around every decision you make."

(Also note that the Game Informer coming out reportedly says that you do import your DAO game. You just don't continue the same character. It sounds like the oft-requested ability to import a world state even if you can't import the character. Now, that sounds too good to be true so I'll remain skeptical until I see it on GI's or Bioware's site instead of just on a blog. Though that blog's usage of brackets in quoted material does give me confidence in regards to their reliability.)

Okay what about the potential good? Sure there are no Origins. But maybe there are more paths through the course of the game than we saw in Dragon Age. Maybe it's the anti-movie (because people are afraid this will be some passive ride where you vaguely control Hawke) and more the choose-your-own-adventure novel presented cinematically. Who knows. Maybe there are enough paths in the middle of the game that it allows for more replayability. Dragon Age: Middles (intentional cheese there, folks), so to speak. We'll have to see as more info comes out.

As for fears that seem unfounded, there's "Oh no. No dialogue choices besides straight good and bad like in Mass Effect 2!". That has already been disconfirmed by Gaider in another thread. (Also, ME2 has more flexibility than a lot of detractors give it credit for. Still, Dragon Age needs even more flexibility than ME2 has.)

Modifié par Giltspur, 10 juillet 2010 - 12:08 .

[Dick Delaware]

You kinda lost me at Fallout 3, a pretty good game that was a mess at times because of bad writing, an awful main quest line, and a setting that lacked the subtlety and thoughtfulness of the original games. Btw, a lot of oldschool Fallout fans really don't like Fallout 3, No Mutants Allowed being the biggest example.



I'm with you about the complaining for complaining's sake, but some of the details do make me a little concerned. Here are the details from one of our posters:



http://social.biowar...54393/4#3074424



Still remains to be seen, but I'm not so sure about some of the changes.



Yeah, I like the Mass Effect dialogue system since you don't have to hear your character repeating himself over and over again, but not every BioWare game needs to be like that. You had way more dialogue options in Origins than in ME, and while there are definite upsides to using a VO and a set character in a more personal storyline spanning a period of time, removing the origins and getting rid of dialogue trees seems like taking the baby out with the bathwater.

[-Semper-]

moteh wrote...

Everyone blows everything out of proportion.  You people will complain and moan, and then as you hear more info on the game most of you will start to come around again like you never had a doubt at all.  I can pretty much guarantee that when the game releases most of the naysayers here now will be purchasing it day one, it always works that way.

you are getting something terribly wrong. the oldschool fans, who liked the original and complained most about the changes, turned their backs and are gone. they were sacrificed to get a newer and even greater fanbase. that's how pure capitalism works. forget about the old roots which once made you strong and grow much bigger... got it now?

Modifié par -Semper-, 10 juillet 2010 - 12:17 .

[Zaldrak84]

Just wait when two years (or probably a bit sooner) from now DA3 is announced and people complain because (in their mind) it's nothing like DA2. History repeats.

Modifié par Zaldrak84, 10 juillet 2010 - 12:32 .

[Errol Dnamyx]

BW can´t make everyone happy. I for one am bitter because I´ll have to play with a new hero and can´t continue what my warden started (story/relationships). But I´m probably going to buy DA2 anyway and am looking forward to the new game experience.Why: "Different" doesn´t have to be worse and BW has not disappointed me with the quality of their games yet.

[EatChildren]

Your examples are all good except for Fallout 3, which while being a good game still deterred from the original formula a bit too much, and understandably left people certain people very disappointed (and rightly so). The isometric/first-person thing wasn't really the main issue.

[Arttis]

You assume every person that complains is gonna love it once they buy it.Nope unlikely.I will buy it.Also buy everything else they can throw at me that is not DLC.

[VeeVito]

Well, I think what you're seeing has more to do with a desire to keep at least one decent modern game with the traditional RPG setup. DAO was marketed as that and did its best to deliver. The info is still not enough to doubt that it will keep that same feel to it although when race selection is removed (a tradional part of RPG's) people start to wonder about what else is in store.

Also, I don't think that you would find many that would say that even if DAO went the more action RPG route that it wouldn't be a great game. It just will be changed to something that strays from what it originally tried to be and what many have been wanting for so long now.

And, I still don't really believe that BW would scrap what they worked for a while to create (in terms of their new RPG rule set), mechanics etc. just to radically alter it into a whole new type of game. So, at this point, it sems safe.

So, in conclusion it isn't so much a "don't change it to a more ME style because it will stink", as much as it is "please just let us keep one game that isn't like that and stays to the more traditional RPG elements".

I think anyway.

[Ecael]

-Semper- wrote...

moteh wrote...

Everyone blows everything out of proportion.  You people will complain and moan, and then as you hear more info on the game most of you will start to come around again like you never had a doubt at all.  I can pretty much guarantee that when the game releases most of the naysayers here now will be purchasing it day one, it always works that way.

you are getting something terribly wrong. the oldschool fans, who liked the original and complained most about the changes, turned their backs and are gone. they were sacrificed to get a newer and even greater fanbase. that's how pure capitalism works. forget about the old roots which once made you strong and grow much bigger... got it now?

Yes, let's accuse BioWare of "selling out" every time they make a gameplay or storytelling change. That's not elitist at all...

[Dick Delaware]

I'd also like to mention that I think that this whole cinematic trend in gaming isn't really something that DA2 actually needs. The original game's main problems were excessive filler combat encounters (the system was good, just waaaaayyyyy too much combat used to pad things out), an unoriginal main plot, and a lack of follow through for consequences in certain situations that made it hard to take the "dark fantasy" moniker seriously.

A cinematic approach can be nice, and I liked a lot of the cinematics in ME2, but every game doesn't need to be like that. Out of all the things you could improve on, the unimpressive cinematics in Origins (especially the hilarious sex scenes) aren't really on the top of my list.

Modifié par Dick Delaware, 10 juillet 2010 - 01:24 .

[Hulk Hsieh]

-Semper- wrote...

moteh wrote...

Everyone blows everything out of proportion.  You people will complain and moan, and then as you hear more info on the game most of you will start to come around again like you never had a doubt at all.  I can pretty much guarantee that when the game releases most of the naysayers here now will be purchasing it day one, it always works that way.

you are getting something terribly wrong. the oldschool fans, who liked the original and complained most about the changes, turned their backs and are gone. they were sacrificed to get a newer and even greater fanbase. that's how pure capitalism works. forget about the old roots which once made you strong and grow much bigger... got it now?

That happened 10 years ago when Bioware ditched turn-based combat and made BG.

[GreenSoda]

I'm actually sure it will turn out to be a good game, telling me an interesting story that I'll want to experience. Up to this date BW has always delievered on this part in my book (well, excluding the NWN1 sp campaign. That one was really awful.).



I will most probably buy it.



I'm still ****ing because it obviously is not going to be the game I wanted it to be. You know, a true successor to DA:O. More where that came from.

[Arius23]

I think the main thing people are upset with is that this isn't a continuation of the story of their Warden and his/her relationship with his companions who they have grown attached too.



It's that kind of attachment that makes big changes hard to bear. I'm sure once DA2 is played, everyone will be loving Hawke and the new companions he/she comes across, but that is an UNKNOWN right now, and until then, people will cling to memories of what they KNOW worked, which are all the things they loved about their character and the relationships they built with their companions.

[thenemesis77]

-Semper- wrote...

moteh wrote...

Everyone blows everything out of proportion.  You people will complain and moan, and then as you hear more info on the game most of you will start to come around again like you never had a doubt at all.  I can pretty much guarantee that when the game releases most of the naysayers here now will be purchasing it day one, it always works that way.

you are getting something terribly wrong. the oldschool fans, who liked the original and complained most about the changes, turned their backs and are gone. they were sacrificed to get a newer and even greater fanbase. that's how pure capitalism works. forget about the old roots which once made you strong and grow much bigger... got it now?

I could not have said it better myself, oldschool fans are the ones that get the boot and get it everytime. Everyone at BioWare are sellouts and now they are no better then the compnay that heads them, EA. Enjoy DAO, it was the last of its kind, the days of the great RPGs are over all in the name for some damn kid that loves gummy bears and ponys and watches TV all day and doesn't know how to read or was reading is.

[Lord_Saulot]

We have enough information now to know that they are making some substantial changes but it will be a sequel largely in the same basic category as its original game, though with aforesaid changes as well as developments and expansions of prior concepts.



Also, the idea that some have that the "old school" fans are the always the ones complaining and the ones getting left to the side has no basis in fact.

[The Elite Elite]

I highly disagree with your Modern Warfare 2 example. No dedicated servers for the PC is not "some small thing" like you claim there. That is huge. Completely ruins the online experience for PC games not to have dedicated servers.

[-Semper-]

Ecael wrote...

Yes, let's accuse BioWare of "selling out" every time they make a gameplay or storytelling change. That's not elitist at all...

if you know how business runs you know how to control the world