47 réponses à ce sujet

[XX55XX]

Well, upon hearing this morning that DA2 will have a dialogue wheel, I became very excited. I hated reading that dialogue in DAO. Despite what some of you conservatives may say, I am all for the dialogue wheel. Reading dialogue is a thing of the past. We have the technology, why not use it? The only reason old-school RPGs weren't voiced were because of technological limitations.

Do you think that anyone could watch a modern movie without sound these days? How many silent films are released anymore? It is only a natural progression. Much like how the Jazz Singer revolutionized cinema forever with the inclusion of sound, the dialogue wheel and fully voiced dialogue would provide a similar level of progression. I daresay, that by 2010, everything will be fully voiced.

But, I feel that copying and pasting the wheel from ME would be a poor idea.

You see, in ME, Shepard has only three dialogue choices: good, bad, and neutral. That is just too plain obvious, and I would love it if DA2 could make the tones of each dialogue choice a little more subtle. 

So, keep the same amount of dialogue choices which were present in DAO. In my opinion, the dialogue choices were far more superior than ME's, so the best features of games conversation systems should included as part of the overall design.

Excuse my incoherence, but does everyone get what I am saying?

[MaaZeus]

Yes, and I agree. I love Dialog wheel because it gives me a chance to answer based on my emotions and do it fast instead of reading and thinking what is "proper answer". But ME dialog wheel as it is is too small and needs to be expanded to cover more choices, different ways to same outcomes for RPG reasons. Like someone said in another thread, giving multiple choices if you want to kill a Bloodmage, will you just kill him or do you give religious zealot speech and then kill him. Same outcome but completely different reasons.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 10 juillet 2010 - 02:44 .

[kansadoom]

But thats the main problem with voices you see, I doubt anyone has a problem with the voices themselves but rather the effects it has on the things around it. Voices in DA2 acutomatically means there will be less choices of things to say

[Lord_Saulot]

While I agree that the new system may be enjoyable and could combine the best aspects of both systems, the following is rather silly:

XX55XX wrote...

Well, upon hearing this morning that DA2 will have a dialogue wheel, I became very excited. I hated reading that dialogue in DAO. Despite what some of you conservatives may say, I am all for the dialogue wheel. Reading dialogue is a thing of the past. We have the technology, why not use it? The only reason old-school RPGs weren't voiced were because of technological limitations.

Do you think that anyone could watch a modern movie without sound these days? How many silent films are released anymore? It is only a natural progression. Much like how the Jazz Singer revolutionized cinema forever with the inclusion of sound, the dialogue wheel and fully voiced dialogue would provide a similar level of progression. I daresay, that by 2010, everything will be fully voiced.

Many of us like reading.  We pick dialogue heavy games because we like reading.  Pretending it has something to do with technology or time period is silly.  You just like different things.

[Gegenlicht]

There is one big drawback with the dialogue wheel.



The summary that it gives you doesn't always match what the character says. I can't quote specific instances from the ME games from memory, but there were several times when I THOUGHT I was picking one type of answer, and Shepard said something completely different. If they can fix that, I have no problems with the wheel. If not, they better mix and match the two approaches to give you a wheel but also whole sentences so you can get a perfect idea where the reply is going.

[Behindyounow]

XX55XX wrote...

Well, upon hearing this morning that DA2 will have a dialogue wheel, I became very excited. I hated reading that dialogue in DAO. Despite what some of you conservatives may say, I am all for the dialogue wheel. Reading dialogue is a thing of the past. We have the technology, why not use it? The only reason old-school RPGs weren't voiced were because of technological limitations.

Do you think that anyone could watch a modern movie without sound these days? How many silent films are released anymore? It is only a natural progression. Much like how the Jazz Singer revolutionized cinema forever with the inclusion of sound, the dialogue wheel and fully voiced dialogue would provide a similar level of progression. I daresay, that by 2010, everything will be fully voiced.

But, I feel that copying and pasting the wheel from ME would be a poor idea.

You see, in ME, Shepard has only three dialogue choices: good, bad, and neutral. That is just too plain obvious, and I would love it if DA2 could make the tones of each dialogue choice a little more subtle. 

So, keep the same amount of dialogue choices which were present in DAO. In my opinion, the dialogue choices were far more superior than ME's, so the best features of games conversation systems should included as part of the overall design.

Excuse my incoherence, but does everyone get what I am saying?

Something doesn't quite add up here...

[Rhjh20]

If you dont like reading why do you play rpg 's ?

[MaaZeus]

Rhjh20 wrote...

If you dont like reading why do you play rpg 's ?

I think you missed the point completely.

[soteria]

I have to agree that I'm not a fan of the summaries, especially in DA where there's no Paragon/Renegade. We're supposed to just be choosing what our character would say, and the short summaries that ME gave won't cut it, at all. In general you could guess what sort of things you would say in ME, but too often it would be a surprise. For example, you could try to play a non-racist renegade character, but sometimes choosing an "innocent"-looking renegade option would end up with you making some sort of racist comment.

[XX55XX]

kansadoom wrote...

But thats the main problem with voices you see, I doubt anyone has a problem with the voices themselves but rather the effects it has on the things around it. Voices in DA2 acutomatically means there will be less choices of things to say

Look at the amount of stuff they recorded for DAO. I think BioWare can do it again. Certainly, the quality of the voice acting may suffer if an actor has to read too many lines (there's less time to re-record certain lines for quality issues).

But I agree, let's hope that quality and quantity of the voice work is at a similar level to DAO, and no less.

[syllogi]

Rhjh20 wrote...

If you dont like reading why do you play rpg 's ?

That's a really good question.  Why are all the people defending fewer roleplaying options and less dialogue overall, playing ROLEPLAYing games?  

[XX55XX]

Rhjh20 wrote...

If you dont like reading why do you play rpg 's ?

I like stories. But video games are a different medium, from say, something like a book. I love reading and I buy many books from Amazon. However, given that video games are an audio-visual medium, I prefer not to read very much when I am playing a video game.

[TheMadCat]

I play games to play games, not watch a "cinematic experience". Personally I like to think about what I'm going to say instead of randomly guessing some paraphrase on a wheel and praying to God it's at the very least close to that the paraphrase suggests.



And no, this is not any natural progression as it was with movies which are a completely different art form filling a completely different. Ultimately voice acting is an extremely gimmick that more often then not drags games down, BioWare produces one of the few games where it's consistently decent. Ever played a game with lots of bad voice acting, it's a terrible experience and complete immersion breaker.

[XX55XX]

TeenZombie wrote...

Rhjh20 wrote...

If you dont like reading why do you play rpg 's ?

That's a really good question.  Why are all the people defending fewer roleplaying options and less dialogue overall, playing ROLEPLAYing games?  

You are making a flawed assumption. You are assuming that BioWare will automatically write less dialogue just because they are planning to voice the main character. Do you not see the proof that dialogue wheel does not necessarily equate to a smaller script? DAO voiced everything except for the main character, and I still feel that DAO had a greater amount of dialogue than ME and ME2 ever did. 

[Lord_Saulot]

XX55XX wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Rhjh20 wrote...

If you dont like reading why do you play rpg 's ?

That's a really good question.  Why are all the people defending fewer roleplaying options and less dialogue overall, playing ROLEPLAYing games?  

You are making a flawed assumption. You are assuming that BioWare will automatically write less dialogue just because they are planning to voice the main character. Do you not see the proof that dialogue wheel does not necessarily equate to a smaller script? DAO voiced everything except for the main character, and I still feel that DAO had a greater amount of dialogue than ME and ME2 ever did. 

But voicing the main character would require a *lot* more dialogue to be recorded than that because: 1) It must be recorded twice, male and female (though potentially they may have different dialogue in different situations), 2) There may be different dialogue or areas based on character class, and 3) the main character has to be part of every conversation, meaning voice recording may as much double even without the above points.

So yes, it is possible that voiceover could mean less dialogue - as you pointed out, DAO had much more dialogue than ME or ME2.  But unlike a lot of people, I don't think that is necessarily true, and I am fairly confident, like you, that Bioware will keep the quantity in line with the previous game, because DA and ME were never the same type of game, and I think all the assumptions people make, that ME2 is the future of all Bioware games rather than just one type of game they chose to make among others, are mistaken.  So I agree with you that I don't think dialogue will necessarily be less, but it is a reasonable worry for people to have.

[Stefanocrpg_rev91]

Rhjh20 wrote...

If you dont like reading why do you play rpg 's ?

I agree completely.

If you don't like reading you can just go playing your loved fps and action games and not ruin the games we rpg fan love.

[TheMadCat]

XX55XX wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Rhjh20 wrote...

If you dont like reading why do you play rpg 's ?

That's a really good question.  Why are all the people defending fewer roleplaying options and less dialogue overall, playing ROLEPLAYing games?  

You are making a flawed assumption. You are assuming that BioWare will automatically write less dialogue just because they are planning to voice the main character. Do you not see the proof that dialogue wheel does not necessarily equate to a smaller script? DAO voiced everything except for the main character, and I still feel that DAO had a greater amount of dialogue than ME and ME2 ever did. 

But a fully voiced NPC is incredibly expensive since they have several unique lines for every conversation, which unlike other NPC's always involve the players character. That fact alone already means there is no chance of having any more dialogue options then what was seen in the Mass Effect series.

[Wonderllama4]

I hope they keep the good, selfless choices at the top of the wheel and the evil, ruthless choices on the bottom. That will make it easier for me to play a purely good/evil character without repeating choices across playthroughs. Plus, I like how the left side of the wheel always extends the conversation. In DA:O you were never sure of which dialogue choice would keep a person talking or shut them up. I would constantly save and reload my game just to hear all dialogue trees. Even though my game save says I've played for 100 hours, in reality I must have close to 200.

Modifié par Wonderllama4, 10 juillet 2010 - 03:06 .

[XX55XX]

So I agree with you that I don't think dialogue will necessarily be less, but it is a reasonable worry for people to have.

Agreed. People are worrying about a game they haven't seen yet. +1 for the Internet.

I am personally liking what I hear so far. BioWare cannot please everyone. People are instinctively prejudiced against change, and time and time again it shows up everywhere on the Internet, even on message boards about matters as trivial as video games.

[XX55XX]

Stefanocrpg_rev91 wrote...

Rhjh20 wrote...

If you dont like reading why do you play rpg 's ?

I agree completely.

If you don't like reading you can just go playing your loved fps and action games and not ruin the games we rpg fan love.

And you launch an ad hominem attack against me just because I voice my pleasure at BioWare's decision. How mature. I love RPGs. I have played RPGs like Pokemon, which require me to read hundreds of lines of dialogue in one sitting. Do not make assumptions just because I happen to disagree with you.

[Lord_Saulot]

XX55XX wrote...

So I agree with you that I don't think dialogue will necessarily be less, but it is a reasonable worry for people to have.

Agreed. People are worrying about a game they haven't seen yet. +1 for the Internet.

I am personally liking what I hear so far. BioWare cannot please everyone. People are instinctively prejudiced against change, and time and time again it shows up everywhere on the Internet, even on message boards about matters as trivial as video games.

Personally, I'm not too worried.  I found with DAO that people were unsure about a lot of things, but generally Bioware's development team made decisions that suited my preferences and temprament.  So I'm willing to give them a lot of faith for the sequel.  When people were freaking out about the announcement two days ago, I tried to advance, more moderate, reasonable interpretations of controversial points, and as information has leaked, I have been right in all my guesses, which confirms to me that BioWare is still designing with people like me in the target audience.  Voiced over dialogue was the one thing so far that was not my preference, but it is not a big deal to me, and I'm willing to give it a chance.

[Arlana Tabris]

XX55XX wrote...
You are making a flawed assumption. You are assuming that BioWare will automatically write less dialogue just because they are planning to voice the main character. Do you not see the proof that dialogue wheel does not necessarily equate to a smaller script? DAO voiced everything except for the main character, and I still feel that DAO had a greater amount of dialogue than ME and ME2 ever did. 

You forget one thing - voicing is costly. The Devs will have to take the money from some other area of development to pay for some massive amount of dialogue lines. I fear that to cut expenses the main character options may be a lot shorter and far more repetitive.

Besides, DAO had a greater amount of dialogue exactly because the main character wasn't voiced. On the old forum one of the devs said that voicing the PC would cut the game almost by half (http://old.dragonage...ngle/1238434260 - thank you DA Central). And if you look at DA2, the amount of content has already decreased (we can't choose any other race now).

EDIT: I have been ninja'd by Lord_Saulot and TheMadCat with some of my points, because I was looking for the link - with the DA Central gone, it's difficult to find old quotes. Sorry for repeating what they have already said.

Modifié par Arlana Tabris, 10 juillet 2010 - 03:17 .

[blu_skye]

For me, I really didn't care that the main character didn't have voice over in DA. I just wasn't that big a deal. I thought Mass Effect was a decent game, but it wasn't classic for me. It was something to do for a little while after I got home from work or on a Sunday afternoon. There was zero replayability. One and done.

I don't mind reading the dialog choices, I shouldn't have to GUESS at what my character is going to say. I didn't like the wheel thing in ME. It just seems that gameplay and choice are making way for story. And it may be a good story, but in ME it didn't feel like it was MY story, but someone else's. I don't want to play a movie, I want to participate in the story. I realize I am an old guy (43) but DA2 just seems like it is way too geared for console gamers. Nothing wrong with consoles but it's not my taste. It's disappointing to see the path that DA2 is apparently taking.

Modifié par blu_skye, 10 juillet 2010 - 03:18 .

[syllogi]

XX55XX wrote...

Stefanocrpg_rev91 wrote...

Rhjh20 wrote...

If you dont like reading why do you play rpg 's ?

I agree completely.

If you don't like reading you can just go playing your loved fps and action games and not ruin the games we rpg fan love.

And you launch an ad hominem attack against me just because I voice my pleasure at BioWare's decision. How mature. I love RPGs. I have played RPGs like Pokemon, which require me to read hundreds of lines of dialogue in one sitting. Do not make assumptions just because I happen to disagree with you.

You said you don't like reading in roleplaying games.  Do you at least get that many people are going to see that statement and sigh or facepalm?  For those who enjoy traditional roleplaying games, reading is essential.

XX55XX wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

That's a
really good question.  Why are all the people defending fewer
roleplaying options and less dialogue overall, playing ROLEPLAYing
games?  

You are making a flawed assumption. You
are assuming that BioWare will automatically write less dialogue just
because they are planning to voice the main character. Do you not see
the proof that dialogue wheel does not necessarily equate to a smaller
script? DAO voiced everything except for the main character, and I still
feel that DAO had a greater amount of dialogue than ME and ME2 ever
did. 

There is no way that Dragon Age 2 can have as much dialogue as DA:O, both by the virtue of only having one origin (which was necessitated by using a fully voiced character), and through the use of a dialogue wheel (which, again, goes hand in hand with voicing the main character).  Add to that the *much* shorter development cycle, and you're being naively optimistic.  Having fully voiced NPCs doesn't have anything to do with dialogue wheels, either.

Fans of cinematic "hybrid" RPGs-in-name-only games already have the Mass Effect franchise.  Saying that these changes are a good thing are like saying that Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance was an improvement over BG2.