47 réponses à ce sujet

[XX55XX]

Arlana Tabris wrote...

XX55XX wrote...
You are making a flawed assumption. You are assuming that BioWare will automatically write less dialogue just because they are planning to voice the main character. Do you not see the proof that dialogue wheel does not necessarily equate to a smaller script? DAO voiced everything except for the main character, and I still feel that DAO had a greater amount of dialogue than ME and ME2 ever did. 

You forget one thing - voicing is costly. The Devs will have to take the money from some other area of development to pay for some massive amount of dialogue lines. I fear that to cut expenses the main character options may be a lot shorter and far more repetitive.

Besides, DAO had a greater amount of dialogue exactly because the main character wasn't voiced. On the old forum one of the devs said that voicing the PC would cut the game almost by half (http://old.dragonage...ngle/1238434260 - thank you DA Central). And if you look at DA2, the amount of content has already decreased (we can't choose any other race now).

You do have a point, I suppose. But, Dragon Age II doesn't necessarily have to be the 50 hour romp that DAO was. They can cut content without sacrificing quality. I prefer to play a quality game instead of an intensely long and overbearing one. It might be for the best. 

Plus, it might mean that we might have fewer party members this time around. 

[VeeVito]

XX55XX wrote...

So I agree with you that I don't think dialogue will necessarily be less, but it is a reasonable worry for people to have.

Agreed. People are worrying about a game they haven't seen yet. +1 for the Internet.

I am personally liking what I hear so far. BioWare cannot please everyone. People are instinctively prejudiced against change, and time and time again it shows up everywhere on the Internet, even on message boards about matters as trivial as video games.

Well, i'm wondering why you seem to be implying that it's ok to say that you like what you are hearing but it is just "typical internet noise" for others to say that they don't like what they are hearing. Both opinions are based off of the same ambiguous info, but one is ok to express while the other gets dismissed?

Also, if you seem to think that the game is indeed changing (which I assumme since you bring up how so many are insinctively against change), why do you say that people are worrying about a game they haven't played yet? Certainly the news has made you think there will be change, its just that you happen to like what you're heaing.

If you can voice approval of something you haven't played yet, why isn't the reverse true?

[Lord_Saulot]

XX55XX wrote...

Arlana Tabris wrote...

XX55XX wrote...
You are making a flawed assumption. You are assuming that BioWare will automatically write less dialogue just because they are planning to voice the main character. Do you not see the proof that dialogue wheel does not necessarily equate to a smaller script? DAO voiced everything except for the main character, and I still feel that DAO had a greater amount of dialogue than ME and ME2 ever did. 

You forget one thing - voicing is costly. The Devs will have to take the money from some other area of development to pay for some massive amount of dialogue lines. I fear that to cut expenses the main character options may be a lot shorter and far more repetitive.

Besides, DAO had a greater amount of dialogue exactly because the main character wasn't voiced. On the old forum one of the devs said that voicing the PC would cut the game almost by half (http://old.dragonage...ngle/1238434260 - thank you DA Central). And if you look at DA2, the amount of content has already decreased (we can't choose any other race now).

You do have a point, I suppose. But, Dragon Age II doesn't necessarily have to be the 50 hour romp that DAO was. They can cut content without sacrificing quality. I prefer to play a quality game instead of an intensely long and overbearing one. It might be for the best. 

Plus, it might mean that we might have fewer party members this time around. 

Earlier didn't you say you wanted it to have just as much dialogue as Origins?  Now you are saying it should be shorter?  Dragon Age's length was part of what made it an epic RPG experience.  While we don't know anything, and I still think it will probably be a long game like Dragon Age's Origins, you are presenting a false dichotomy; the length of DAO was part of its quality - the two are not contrary.  And a story spanning a decade of a man's life, defining his history, relationships, and character - well that likely calls for a longer story than stopping the Blight did.

[XX55XX]

If you can voice approval of something you haven't played yet, why isn't the reverse true?

Point taken. But I just happen to dislike the negativity that I hear all the time around here. Two-thirds of everything posted so far doesn't seem constructive at all and revolves around sentiments like that read like this: "Oh no, BioWare has ruined my favorite RPG with these new features! It's as if they just took my newborn baby away! Wah!"

[Lord_Saulot]

XX55XX wrote...

If you can voice approval of something you haven't played yet, why isn't the reverse true?

Point taken. But I just happen to dislike the negativity that I hear all the time around here. Two-thirds of everything posted so far doesn't seem constructive at all and revolves around sentiments like that read like this: "Oh no, BioWare has ruined my favorite RPG with these new features! It's as if they just took my newborn baby away! Wah!"

I agree - but the opposite is just as bad: "Isn't it great that they are changing this and taking away what you liked to put in what I liked?"

I'm not saying that is what you were saying, and I don't think that is how you meant what you said (though the "get with the times" type talk does come across that way), but it is something to watch out for.

[spottyblanket]

I feel stupid for asking but what is a dialogue wheel?



I hope we can put up subtitles, I tend to put them fast because I enjoy reading dialogue as well as hearing it in case I miss something or need to see it up there to make a decsion.

[MaaZeus]

spottyblanket wrote...

I feel stupid for asking but what is a dialogue wheel?

I hope we can put up subtitles, I tend to put them fast because I enjoy reading dialogue as well as hearing it in case I miss something or need to see it up there to make a decsion.

Look up gameplay videos of Mass Effect, ones with dialog.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 10 juillet 2010 - 03:32 .

[Fraevar]

XX55XX wrote...

You do have a point, I suppose. But, Dragon Age II doesn't necessarily have to be the 50 hour romp that DAO was. They can cut content without sacrificing quality. I prefer to play a quality game instead of an intensely long and overbearing one. It might be for the best. 

Plus, it might mean that we might have fewer party members this time around. 

And why not? The big thing about Origins was that you were going through this massive story, with characters that grew and evolved along with you. Compare that to Mass Effect 2 where every single companion character is static in both personality and function, and they never interact with one another. I would rather give up the voiced protagonist and have companions that felt alive and with whom I could form meaningful relationships with than ME2's: "4 talks with Upper Right on the dialogue wheel = sexytime!" formula.

Modifié par Delerius_Jedi, 10 juillet 2010 - 03:33 .

[bcooper56]

Wheel that doesn't require

any examination of writing.



Short form Disabled people icons will be used.

[XX55XX]

I agree - but the opposite is just as bad: "Isn't it great that they are changing this and taking away what you liked to put in what I liked?"

I'm not saying that is what you were saying, and I don't think that is how you meant what you said (though the "get with the times" type talk does come across that way), but it is something to watch out for.

True. I see why everyone is concerned now - but almost every single sentiment posted so far (including mine) is based on the flimsiest of assumptions. Some are more negative, others more positive. I want to be on the more positive spectrum of things and encourage BioWare.

It's hard to do a good job if everyone is critical of you all the time. I was merely trying to reverse this trend with my post.

Plus, it's a video game. If you are that worried about a video game, then you may want to take another look at your priorities.

Modifié par XX55XX, 10 juillet 2010 - 03:36 .

[Lord_Saulot]

Delerius_Jedi wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

You do have a point, I suppose. But, Dragon Age II doesn't necessarily have to be the 50 hour romp that DAO was. They can cut content without sacrificing quality. I prefer to play a quality game instead of an intensely long and overbearing one. It might be for the best. 

Plus, it might mean that we might have fewer party members this time around. 

And why not? The big thing about Origins was that you were going through this massive story, with characters that grew and evolved along with you. Compare that to Mass Effect 2 where every single companion character is static in both personality and function, and they never interact with one another. I would rather give up the voiced protagonist and have companions that felt alive and with whom I could form meaningful relationships with than ME2's: "4 talks with Upper Right on the dialogue wheel = sexytime!" formula.

The new story is set over a decade is supposed to be centered around developing Hawke's character, history, and relationships.  So in all liklihood developing relationships, changing characters, and evolution over time will play a much bigger part in DA2 than DAO, from the information we have. 

[Lord_Saulot]

XX55XX wrote...

I agree - but the opposite is just as bad: "Isn't it great that they are changing this and taking away what you liked to put in what I liked?"

I'm not saying that is what you were saying, and I don't think that is how you meant what you said (though the "get with the times" type talk does come across that way), but it is something to watch out for.

True. I see why everyone is concerned now - but almost every single sentiment posted so far (including mine) is based on the flimsiest of assumptions. Some are more negative, others more positive. I want to be on the more positive spectrum of things and encourage BioWare.

It's hard to do a good job if everyone is critical of you all the time. I was merely trying to reverse this trend with my post.

Plus, it's a video game. If you are that worried about about video game, then you may want to take another look at your priorities.

A couple things:
1) I agree that this place has been overwhelmingly, unjustifably negative.  And I appreciate the effort to add something else to the mix.
2) Just because people are passionate about a video game does not mean they are necessarily neglecting their other priorities.  I've spent a fair amount of time on this forum for example (though I haven't really been complaining, in any case), but my priority is the preparing for my bar examination in a few weeks.

[AlanC9]

It's not a flimsy assumption if you thought ME didn't work well.



And you're spending just as much time defending the design as folks are spending attacking it, so I don't see how you get to talk about other folks' priorities.

[Khayness]

Ah, the good days when you could spend 3 days reading and venturing forth without any combat in PS:T...

[Eleinehmm]

spottyblanket wrote...

I feel stupid for asking but what is a dialogue wheel?

I hope we can put up subtitles, I tend to put them fast because I enjoy reading dialogue as well as hearing it in case I miss something or need to see it up there to make a decsion.

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Dialogue

[Lord_Saulot]

Khayness wrote...

Ah, the good days when you could spend 3 days reading and venturing forth without any combat in PS:T...

I loved PS:T!!

That was one of the most unique and well made RPGs of all time. 

[soteria]

It's not a flimsy assumption if you thought ME didn't work well.

I thought it worked decent in a game that only had three choices: good, bad, and indifferent. For DA2, I'm witholding judgment for the time being until I find out more. Well, honestly, I'll probably withold judgment until I play the game.

[Utoryo]

I'm not sure why people assume a voiced hero *necessarily* means less dialogue. It's simply a question of budget allocation: there's nothing that prevents you from paying a good voice actor more money (not just overall but presumably per hour as it prevents him from pursuing other opportunities) so he can dedicates a massive amount of his time to it. In fact that might even be a good idea because it'd force him to really enter the character's shoes.

[Lord_Saulot]

Utoryo wrote...

I'm not sure why people assume a voiced hero *necessarily* means less dialogue. It's simply a question of budget allocation: there's nothing that prevents you from paying a good voice actor more money (not just overall but presumably per hour as it prevents him from pursuing other opportunities) so he can dedicates a massive amount of his time to it. In fact that might even be a good idea because it'd force him to really enter the character's shoes.

Many of don't think that it necessarily will, but only that that is a reasonable thing to speculate (though personally I hope not, and am not thinking it will quite yet).  But "budget allocation" as you say is not something where you can simply allocate more money and be done with it.  They can't simply pour infinite amounts of money into a game.  Money spent in one place is money that they otherwise likely would have spent on something else.  It is within the bounds of reasonable speculation that budget allocation might mean writing less dialogue to be voiced, or less of something else in the game.

[OriginsIsBest]

So it feels as if we are watching a movie? Mass effect dialogs suck.

[Utoryo]

Lord_Saulot wrote...

They can't simply pour infinite amounts of money into a game.

Star Wars: The Old Republic tells a very different tale - one million subscribers to reach break-even is about as close to infinity as you can get. But I'm joking of course, it would be quite ironic for someone to school me on business dynamics.

What I'm really saying is that I would be surprised if DA2 budget wasn't higher than DAO's (after all they've said time and again that DAO exceeded their expectations) and that it would be normal for them to spend a greater percentage of that greater total towards voice acting if they're doing VO for Hawke. I agree it's reasonable to be worried about it, but it's also reasonable to consider that if they deem it at least somewhat important it won't be anywhere near as bad as some seem to be expecting. In fact I'm quite optimistic.

[Herbert West]

bcooper56 wrote...

Wheel that doesn't require<br />
any examination of writing.<br />
<br />
Short form Disabled people icons will be used.

Dragon Age 2. In Haiku form. Bravo sir. Bravo.

[Selene Moonsong]

Don't res year old topics