118 réponses à ce sujet

[Reiella]

owl208 wrote...

The problem with Loghain is the classic hero tragedy.

It's where a revered hero falls.
If a hero commits a heinous crime, should it go unpunished?
Is death warranted if the crime is severe enough?
If the crime is heinous, is redemption possible?

Sometimes it is a far great punishment to live with the knowledge of your crime than it is to die because of it, but that's coming from someone who is still living....

What an awesome game this is to make us actually think and ponder!!!!

Something that the player and Alistair don't tend to grasp though is that being a Warden isn't necessarily an honor.  All it takes to be made to join the Wardens is showing that you have the skills necessary to succeed.  Of course, that brings up just how shady the Wardens are as an organization.  You must join and you must sacrifice yourself.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Poubo wrote...

ill answer bit by bit, first off, slavery was wrong, i don't know why he did this, i never found an explanation either, considering most of his personal troops during the war were elves (if i remember right).

His response in the game was along the lines of him needing the money to fund mercenaries, since he didn't think the elves would do anything themselves. Which was BS, since the elves were fighting the darkspawn pretty well during the invasion of Denerim.

leniency? quoting Alistair "Joining the grey wardens should be an honour". yet throughout the calling they all hated being grey wardens, and even Duncan himself was a murderer who was able to survive the joining, he earned his redemption why cant anyone else? He had been recruited as punishment!

Letting him live is leniency in my opinion. After everything he did, all the attempted murder, actual murder, slavery, torture, etc., I don't think joining the Wardens is punishment.  Loghain is too old to have to undergo the Calling, as the taint takes about 40 years to corrupt you that much and he'd likely be long dead by then. It doesn't punish him in any way, so the plights of the other Wardens from the Calling don't apply to Loghain.

i didn't say Loghain shouldnt pay for his crimes, but he had 50% chance of living through the joining, if Alistair had gone through with that and then listened to the othe Warden, Loghain would still die, at least let him die with a little dignity. Just because someone does 1 thing good doesnt make them a good person, just because someone does a few things bad / evil, doesnt make them a horrific tyrant.

If you call slavery, regicide, torture, poisoning, and murder of innocent people "a few bad things"...

he slept with Marics Fiancee when Maric was sleeping with Katriel, at that point it doesnt matter, Maric wasn't planning on marrying Maric at that point anyway! If anything Maric was the bad person, putting himself infront of everyone else. if it wasn't for Loghain, Maric wouldn't have been able to become king!

We aren't here to discuss Maric's character. This is about Loghain. It doesn't matter if Maric betrayed Rowan with Katriel, they were still engaged and Loghain still slept with Maric's fiancee.

by comparing crimes, it's like comparing a child to a fully grown adult, Loghain is like 50? where as Alistair is maybe 20 something? A lot can happen in that space of time. Alistair was only doing what was best for himself, hence why he would walk away from the grey wardens and the blight if loghain lived. even if it was temporarily.

Alistair was in the heat of the moment, it was a speech of passion. Loghain was consistently and lucidly making selfish decisions. What Alistair might do in the future is a hypothetical, what Loghain did in the past is not. It holds much more weight.

Who knows how deep Orlais were in this mess, i mean they bargained with the Darkspawn once before, why not again?

Another complete hypothetical. Though I will note on the side that I was surprised by the Architect's absence from the game. It's possible that Orlais was involved, but it's not anywhere close to likely if you ask me.

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 10 novembre 2009 - 08:39 .

[Poubo]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Poubo wrote...

ill answer bit by bit, first off, slavery was wrong, i don't know why he did this, i never found an explanation either, considering most of his personal troops during the war were elves (if i remember right).

His response in the game was along the lines of him needing the money to fund mercenaries, since he didn't think the elves would do anything themselves. Which was BS, since the elves were fighting the darkspawn pretty well during the invasion of Denerim.

leniency? quoting Alistair "Joining the grey wardens should be an honour". yet throughout the calling they all hated being grey wardens, and even Duncan himself was a murderer who was able to survive the joining, he earned his redemption why cant anyone else? He had been recruited as punishment!

Letting him live is leniency in my opinion. After everything he did, all the attempted murder, actual murder, slavery, torture, etc., I don't think joining the Wardens is punishment.  Loghain is too old to have to undergo the Calling, as the taint takes about 40 years to corrupt you that much and he'd likely be long dead by then. It doesn't punish him in any way, so the plights of the other Wardens from the Calling don't apply to Loghain.

i didn't say Loghain shouldnt pay for his crimes, but he had 50% chance of living through the joining, if Alistair had gone through with that and then listened to the othe Warden, Loghain would still die, at least let him die with a little dignity. Just because someone does 1 thing good doesnt make them a good person, just because someone does a few things bad / evil, doesnt make them a horrific tyrant.

If you call slavery, regicide, torture, poisoning, and murder of innocent people "a few bad things"...

he slept with Marics Fiancee when Maric was sleeping with Katriel, at that point it doesnt matter, Maric wasn't planning on marrying Maric at that point anyway! If anything Maric was the bad person, putting himself infront of everyone else. if it wasn't for Loghain, Maric wouldn't have been able to become king!

We aren't here to discuss Maric's character. This is about Loghain. It doesn't matter if Maric betrayed Rowan with Katriel, they were still engaged and Loghain still slept with Maric's fiancee.

by comparing crimes, it's like comparing a child to a fully grown adult, Loghain is like 50? where as Alistair is maybe 20 something? A lot can happen in that space of time. Alistair was only doing what was best for himself, hence why he would walk away from the grey wardens and the blight if loghain lived. even if it was temporarily.

Alistair was in the heat of the moment, it was a speech of passion. Loghain was consistently and lucidly making selfish decisions. What Alistair might do in the future is a hypothetical, what Loghain did in the past is not. It holds much more weight.

Who knows how deep Orlais were in this mess, i mean they bargained with the Darkspawn once before, why not again?

Another complete hypothetical. Though I will note on the side that I was surprised by the Architect's absence from the game. It's possible that Orlais was involved, but it's not anywhere close to likely if you ask me.

in my version of the game, all the elves in the alienage were running away from the blight, of course i had the option to persuade them to stay but i didnt. but their first instinct was to run away, not to protect their home. even with this in mind, i still dont agree with loghains action for slavery.

its not just the calling which would affect loghain, at the point the offer is made, it is uncertain that he would even survive the joining. its like saying " you have a 50% chance of living, and even if you do, you still have to redeem yourself".  i guess i am a strong believer in people, i think that people can come back from being that bad person. i have been told before that i have too much faith in people. but with this in mind he would still die by killing the arch demon (of course alistair doesnt know this at the time, but why doesnt he trust his senior grey warden?)

you cant condem one man without the other, at the point in the book, it is clear that maric is no longer interested in rowan in that way, youll notice that loghain doesnt make a move until after maric cheats on rowan.

i agree that a lot of things are hypothetical, i found it strange aswell that the architect did not appear in my run through... but orlais have hardly been trustworthy in the past or present.

Arl Howe has more to do with things than what Loghain lets on, you can tell when Anora is taken prisoner. Later on in the game if you spare loghain he says that he would never kill his own daughter.

but as the dwarf trader says, take it for what it is...

...this is my own interpretation..

[Maria Caliban]

I just finished the Landsmeet.



I dislike Loghian. Always have. Think he's a douche, and he didn't disappoint.



However, I spared his life and made him a Grey Warden. Alistair ultimately showed himself to be little different from Loghian; what matters to him is petty vengeance, not ending the Blight and not serving Ferelden. If you let him become king, I also hear he whines about it. Since I didn’t pick a male PC, it seems Anora is the best pick as she’s not insane and understands that she’s supposed to better the nation.



I don’t think joining the Grey Wardens is a form of redemption. I’m not sure redemption exists in the Thedas (this reminds me of when I said that homosexuality probably doesn’t exist in Thedas, hopefully it won’t lead to the same argument) and either way, I don’t think Loghian desires it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I took Loghain in for a simple reason. The respect of genuis.

For me, an idiot performing a stupid crime is more detestable than a genuis who made an even bigger crime. Because you cannot expect much from an idiot. But when a genuis does it, you regret the fact that he is using his genuis for something bad.

I am not a merciful guy in general, but I feel bad when genuis isn't used properly. The least one can do is allow that genuis to set himself back on track, something that Loghain wanted.

In that sense, I am very similar to Morrigan. She didn't like the fact that a strong man like Sten was emprisonned to rot like a pig, even because of his murder. And she is right. Someone of Sten's quality is not supposed to suffer the punishment of a common imbecile. Same as Loghain. He is too smart and too great to suffer the fate of say Howe. He deserves a chance at redemption, if he was able to survive the joining.



The other aspect of me sparing him is purely political /self interested. I was going to marry his daughter. Killing him would be a bad idea. Second, my mission is to unite Ferelden. What better success is there than to turn your enemies into allies? And a powerful ally he is. A military genuis of his caliber would be instrumental in defeating the blight and securing the Kingdom.

Alistair on the other hand is a good guy. But that's only what he is. Just like Cailan. A weakling and a kid, regardless of how "good" he is. He is not fit to be king, he knows that. And yet he is willin to take the throne SOLELY to kill Loghain. And he dares to abandon us to the blight, just because Loghain lives? Duncan would have slapped him silly.

Alisatir proved that he was not fit to be King, or even a Grey Warden. Loghain has shown that he is fit to be a general, a leader and a grey warden. One, if given the chance, would gladly sacrifice his life to kill the Archdemon.

[RazorrX]

Allistar is very much like Maric. He does not want to be king, he wants to help people, but hates the idea of being in charge. And the fact that he does not want it makes him a great person to have it.



Anora betrayed me 2 times in my playthrough, I wanted to kill that lying ****. The best I could get was to have Allistar lock her in a tower.



Allistar wants Loghain dead for very simple reasons:



1) Regicide. He killed Calian. Who is Allistars step brother.

2) Killing Duncan. Duncan was a father figure to Allistar

3) Killing the Grey Wardens. They were his family.

4) Loghain was responsible (in Allistars mind) for ALL the deaths at Ostigar and later. IF he had held the line, IF he had agreed to wait for Reinforcements, etc. Ostagar would not have happened

5) He is a dirty stinking traitor.



that said, Allistar made a good king.



He liberated the Elves, and gave them a seat on the Landsmeet. (My father then my cousin had the position)

He gave the Grey Wardens land and a fortress.

Ferelden became Dalish elf friendly for a while (eventually the round ears will always show thier true colors and have to be killed).

Trade with Dwarves increased.

etc.

He travled far and wide, becoming a favored monarch in the kingdom, perhaps even rivaling Maric.



He also left most of the real work to the Arl. ;P



But to the Elves in the Alienage: If you paid attention, they were FORBIDDEN to own any weapons, and to learn how to fight. If you play the city elf origin you are warned to never let them know of your secret training that your mother gave you. There are signs up in alienage that states that ANY elf caught with a weapon is subject to imprisonment or worse.



So how were they supposed to defend thier homes? With pots and pans? (Although in my game they were fighting and I had to convince them to allow professionals do the work and get out).

[Itkovian]

I think the important part here is to view it from a proper "historical RP" perspective.

When I did the landsmeet the first time, my initial instinct was to accept Loghain's surrender, and get him to join the Grey Wardens, and I was surprised by Alistair's reaction (since Alistair is basically The Good Guy). Using my modern morals, I was more into accepting him and looking for his redemption, and thought everyone would be allright with that (especailly since he might die in the joining anyway).

However, let's think about what Loghain did:

- Multiple counts of Treason (abandoning the field, disobeying his king, basically leaving him to die) against his King.

- Caused the slaughter of the Grey Wardens and made them take the blame for his own treacherous actions (putting a price on their heads and so forth - forgetting that this is a game, we had to fight for our lives several times because of that).

- Slavery. He deliberately sold elves to Tevinter slavers. A terrible crime by any standards.

- Attempted murder of Ael Eamon.

- Working with Arl Howe, knowing and supporting his own vile actions (which itself includes Treason against his own Teyrn, Lord Cousland of Highever).

Even by today's standards, those are worthy of the death penalty in any nation/state that supports it. In Ferelden, that's not even in question. Loghain's offenses demanded the death penalty, and the only way he could avoid it was by becoming a Grey Warden (seriously, without that option, nobody could stop Loghain's execution).

So, from a proper "historical RP" perspective, killing Loghain is the Just thing to do. His crimes deserve death.

As for Alistair, his reaction makes perfect sense, not only in light of the above, but also due to his own personnal situation. Loghain was basically responsible for the death of the man he viewed as his father. And it is made clear throughout the game that Alistair sees being a Grey Warden as a great honour, and truly cares about them. Granted, he's seeing the Grey Wardens throught rose-tinted spectacles, but his refusal to accept to work alongside Loghain is absolutely conssistent with this (especially since Loghain is responsible for the Grey Warden being decimated in Ferelden).

Therefore, I think it makes sense to have Loghain killed after the duel. It is the just punishment for his crimes, and though recruiting him as a Warden has a certain poetry to it, as a known traitor (who betrayed the wardens themselves, no less) it is difficult to justify any belief that he wouldn't betray us again. Given this, even if I accepted Loghain's surrender at first (he yielded), I would agree with Alistair that justice needs to be done given the magnitude of his crimes.

And I certainly dissagree with the thought that Alistair is acting the child in his refusal to cooperate with Loghain. It is entirely believable of anyone in his situation, regardless of "maturity" or "morality". The crimes Loghain did deserve death by any standards of justice in Thedas, and they hit a lot closer to home for Alistair (as evinced by the superb acting after Duncan is killed). To then expect Alistair to work with Loghain, and accept him as a member of the very organisation that he betrayed, is unreasonable. There is nothing childish about his reaction, it is quite simply entirely human (to expect him to grin and bear it, is to expect him to be a saint).

That said, I do have a couple of issues with the whole scene:

1- When Loghain yields to me, and I accept his surrender, it is automatically interpreted as me letting him live despite his crimes, and thus triggers the conflict with Alistair. This makes little sense. We just fought a duel, I won, he yielded. Of course I won't cut him down right there and then. That seems a natural thing to do regardless of his crimes. THEN would come the decision of whether or not he should die for his crimes of allowed to live as a Warden.

It's a subtle difference, but an important one. To kill an opponent in a duel who has yielded is dishonourable, but not so executing one for treason. Had there been an extra "step" of dialogue between you accepting his surrender, and everyone thinking you're going to let him live for good, it would have been much more appropriate IMO. For example, after you accept his surrender Loghain (or anyone else for that matter) might ask waht I intend to do with him, at which point you would have the choice of letting him go (which would be the one making Alistair angry), or having him executed for his crimes (or even imprisoned until after the Blight is dealt with).

The sequence of events would have been more realistic this way, in my opinion, instead of having everyone assume I intend to let Loghain live simply because I didn't cut down someone who yielded to me.

2- If you accept his surrender, and speak of having Loghain become a Grey Warden, there comes a point where Alistair makes the argument that becoming a Grey Warden is an honour, one that Loghain does not deserve. This is a good argument, at least for my character, but once you reach that point you no longer have an option to agree with Alistair, and (at least as far as I can tell) all your choices lead to further support for Loghain as a Warden, at which point Alistair decides to take the throne.

I wish there had been a 4th response option to agree with Alistair at that point, so that Alistair can make this good argument and not be locked into the "becoming king or leave party' path.

Finally, some have said that letting Loghain live is the pragmatic choice, as he is a great general and so would be more useful fighting the Blight. This is correct, however there is a good pragmatic reason to kill him as well. It is very clear that becoming a Warden is not a barrier to taking the Throne, since Alistair can do it, so what then could stop Loghain from mounting a coup later on? We know for a fact he still has supporters in the Landsmeet, and likely others we do not know of as well. After all he's done, he is definitely a danger to the future stability of Ferelden even as a Grey Warden, and therefore the best way to maintain the ensure Ferelden's unity is to execute him (same reason Anora wants Alistair executed on certain Landsmeet outcomes).

Anyway, I must say that I absolutely love the Landsmeet and the great impact your decisions have. Though there are a couple of flaws, the whole is definitely remarkable.

Thank you.

Itkovian

[GmanFresh]

my first play i killed logain. he spent the whole game sending assassin squads, soldiers, and all round goons after you. ran away like a little girl and proclaimed his rule over the people.

[Eshaye]

I never got that choice.... I had Alistair fight as my champion, when he was ready for the final blow I just got a cutscene that had me nod and Alistair gutted Loghain.

[daguest]

alistair is a friend (and possibly more), and a good boy.
Loghain seek redemption. If you don't kill him, you show mercy, which is obviously very kind of you.
To the end, you can let him find redemption, and stay alive, which is probably the only "good side" end if you want to stay alive. If alistair kill himself, you are selfish, and if you side with morrigan, you are selfish AND you create probably the biggest monster of all theras history.
As always, choice is yours, one is "good side" at short sight (kill loghain), and the other is "good side" on long sight.

Modifié par daguest, 18 novembre 2009 - 04:12 .

[Eshaye]

daguest wrote...

alistair is a friend (and possibly more), and a good boy.
Loghain seek redemption. If you don't kill him, you show mercy, which is obviously very kind of you.
To the end, you can let him find redemption, and stay alive, which is probably the only "good side" end if you want to stay alive. If alistair kill himself, you are selfish, and if you side with morrigan, you are selfish AND you create probably the biggest monster of all theras history.
As always, choice is yours, one is "good side" at short sight (kill loghain), and the other is "good side" on long sight.

Actually again that's a matter of opinion and perspective and what your character would do or not do. My character was very close to Morrigan and Alistair because while she was basically a kind person she was a mage and an elf and her views on the world actually were closer to Morrigan's. So to her letting Morrigan create the baby was not necessarily a bad thing and was worth the risk.

My city elf however will NOT see things the same way.

[kingthrall]

i hate allistar, he is always whining about morals and why grey wardens have to do this and that. He has nothing good to say ever, and when he finnaly wants to do some dirty work its when you got loghain on his knees for him. That is how weak allistar is.

[Austrolite]

There was no choice for me at all. I couldn't take the throne, and Anora had quickly proved to be as inept as her father, so Alistair had to become king, and therefore Loghain had to die.

[Zeleen]

BewareTheDrow wrote...

Yeah same, Loghain is responsible for the death of the king, the death of duncan, and the death of the vast majority of Grey Wardens in Ferelden. I let Allistar chop off his head.

I think that as a human noble he is also responsible for my parents' deaths as well?

[KeeVasha]

When Loghain ordered his men to retreat and me watching that cutscene of all those men dying.. inc the King & my mentor Duncan..I actually wanted to reach thru my screen and kill him right there!!

Personally, I never liked him, even before we had to light the signal!! I don't care how great of a leader he is! You don't just walk away from a battle.. I don't care how you feel about the Kings decision!! It wasn't just the King and Duncan, it was also all the innocent men who died because of this idjit!

So-oo, when the time comes.. I hope to god I can give him a slow - painful death! I know-I know, it is written different, but still wish he would of died slower :innocent:

**Haha.. I guess you can tell how much that scene effected me..  Hubby watched this scene also and did alot of swearing @ loghain.. & he doesn't even like games like this - *smiles*

[valleyman88]

When there is still a blight to defeat, I couldn't bring myself to kill Loghain. For all he's done, he is still a capable general and warrior. To kill him for revenge when he could still be of great use goes against the grey wardens' philosophy of getting the job done, no matter what.

I was a little disappointed I didn't get the option to imprison or execute him after defeating the archdemon. Allowing him to sacrifice himself to kill the archdemon would have been a better ending for me, but I couldn't resist having a godly lovebaby with Morrigan.

Alistair really showed his immaturity when he stormed off. I never liked him throughout the whole game. For the life of me, I can't figure out why Duncan recruited him. Was it just for his royal blood? Surely there were other, less emotional and childish templars in training.

Modifié par valleyman88, 03 décembre 2009 - 09:43 .

[Roxlimn]

Alistair shows more than just immaturity - he shows that he's a hypocrite. For all his big talk about betrayal and duty, he betrays you AND abandons his duty just for the sake of petty vengeance. So much for duty.



He does this even when he professes his love for you, so it's triply damning when you've romanced him. The man is gutter trash.

[Kerilus]

To me as a Dwarven noble, an influencial man with remarkable brilliance in warfare and politics who had plotted to kill me or threaten my position and course means a must-kill to me.

[Ieolus]

It's crazy the lengths people go ti justify Loghain's actions in the game.



I see Alistair as just like Maric. Once he gets hardened and learns the facts of life, he comes into his own and his full potential as king is reached.

[Layn]

Loghain did the wrong things for the right reasons. His actions were unforgivable, but one more death would bring nothing.I felt like screaming at alistair that i didn't want anymore people dying needlessly.
But we needed alistair on the throne and this was something he needed to deal with before that. I told him to do the execution then, hoping he couldn't kill a man like that.
Loghains life was forfeit. best to use what remains against the darkspawn instead of staining the ground and the people there.

but having to choose i'd rather have Alistair, whom i trust, than Loghain fighting at my side

Modifié par Crrash, 04 décembre 2009 - 03:46 .

[tanglefoot79]

Losing Alistair was not an option. However, Loghain's speech about his daughter made it difficult for me to actually click the button when it came down to it. I've got a four year old girl myself, I can relate.



I don't remember the exact line but it was something like 'all daughters are forever six years old with pigtails in their father's eyes.'



I'll let him live once, but for most of my play throughs he dies. At best, he's a paranoid nutcase. At worse he's guilty of negligent homicide, conspiracy to commit murder and a few other assorted nasties.



Think about how easy it is to break out of fort Dakon. With security like that around, and at least a few of his supporters still sympathetic, do you really want him in prison somewhere?

[Valmy]

Maria Caliban wrote...
Since I didn’t pick a male PC, it seems Anora is the best pick as she’s not insane and understands that she’s supposed to better the nation.

If you are a male PC Anora is even better because it holds the possiblity you can be King...provided you are a Male human Noble.

[Valmy]

Ieolus wrote...

It's crazy the lengths people go ti justify Loghain's actions in the game.

Well the Game leaves it sorta unclear just how much he does out of insanity, influence from Howe, or just because he is a murderous evil bastard.  That is part of what makes the game fun to talk about.

In any case I liked sending him to take the bullet for King Alistair and me.

[Bagsabbis]

Itkovian wrote...

<snip> Loghain was basically responsible for the death of the man he viewed as his father. And it is made clear throughout the game that Alistair sees being a Grey Warden as a great honour, and truly cares about them.<snip>

I see this put forward a lot, and I would like to take issue with it.  From chatting to Alistair in Ostagar, you discover that he has been a Grey Warden for six months.  This for me is hardly enough time for anyone to form a surrogate father/son relationship bond.  Also, I doubt very much that Alistair had ever given any thought at all towards the Grey Wardens until Duncan came along and recruited him.  Ultimately, his entire debt of gratitude towards Duncan is one of saving him from a life that he hated.

As to his actions at the landmeet - "You're right, the Grey Wardens have always taken aid from where they find it".  With these words he dooms himself.  Loghain was a hero of Feralden.  Okay, it turns out that due to his obsession with the Orlesians he crosses the line to become that which he seeks to protect Feralden from.  He is still a leader, a military genius, and a very able fighter though; and he has a deep desire to protect his country.  All of which are exactly what you need as a Grey Warden when facing a blight.

Alistair though is an able fighter, who will follow orders (after moaning about them for a bit!).  He is so incapable of taking responsibility that he defers to you as leader even though you have only been in the Wardens for 5 minutes.  During this time he continues to agonise over Duncan's death, and try to evade any discussion about him becoming king, even though doing so would provide exactly the unity needed to fight against the blight.

Indeed, one of the things that comes out of your heart to hearts with him, is how bad he feels about the way he treated Arl Eamon after being sent to the Chantry at the age of 10.  He looks back and admits that in his petulance he drove away the one person that cared - the one person who could have helped him come to terms with who he is and help provide him with a direction in his life.  And yet even after that, he then chooses to let loose that same 10 year old when you and a senior Grey Warden discuss the possibility of conscripting Loghain.  He is prepared to reject your friendship and the safety of Feralden, maybe the world, in some misguided notion of honour for an organisation that specialises in conscripting thieves and murderers.  This is done even despite the knowledge that he has probably a less that 50/50 chance of surviving The Joining, let alone the high chance of death in the coming battle against the Arch-demon.

Finally, consider the fate of Ser Jory; or what I like to think of as "Duncan's lesson".  Duncan kills Ser Jory not because it's the right thing, the fair thing, or indeed the honourable thing to do.  Even though he claims self-defence as a reason, it is quite clear to anyone that this is just words, and the real reason is to stop him from being able to spread tales of The Joining to the wider world.  It is meant to indicate to you that no man is more important than the Grey Wardens.  Not Ser Jory, not Duncan, not Alistair.  You only leave the order in two ways - via the long walk into the Deep Roads, or through death.  As a Grey Warden, your duty to the order, duty to Feralden, and duty towards ending the blight is clear; no matter how difficult or painful it is.  

You have to execute Alistair.

[Rolandable]

PMorgan18 wrote...

Killed him right there it was.... satisfying.

Perfect.  Finish him!