171 réponses à ce sujet

[Kalcalan]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Kalcalan wrote...
Running away from Lothering is a sensible decision, running away from Ferelden is evading one's responsibilities or duty towards Ferelden.

Remember what Alistair says about running away?

Of course Hawke may well have considered that he/she didn't owe anything to Ferelden. But that is not heroic and in the end the idea in itself is refreshing.

Who says Hawke has any responsibility or duty to ferelden? Perhaps s/he was Chasind from the wilds (remember the ones argueing with the guard?). If so s/he's an outcast to the people of Ferelden and owes them nothing.

Or perhaps Hawke was escorting others out of harms way. If, as the official info suggests, s/he was "able bodied" enough to be able to fight (note: this does not mean an adult or a warrior, in an emergency anyone who can swing a sword is able bodied enough to fight including adolescents) then perhaps someone put him/her in charge of leading others to safety.

Or maybe something happened in Lothering that made Hawke hate Ferelden. Loghain's men were there afterall...

I could keep going for daaaays about potentially heroic  or at least not-cowardly reasons to get out but I'll stop there.

Well, it's good to read some interesting comment Jimmy Fury. There may be some validity in what you've posted but for now we can only guess (and your guess is as good as mine) as we don't really know much apart from that:

"However, rather than stay and fight
the darkspawn menace, Hawke flees Ferelden and heads north."

I based my point on this sentence (from Gameinformer), whether it is correct or not it seems to indicate that Hawke actually decided not to fight the Blight. The reasons are still unknown, the fact is that fighting the Blight wasn't Hawke's fight obviously. If you can come up with other heroic justifications for not fighting to defend the land from the darkspawn threat then I'd be glad to hear them.

Going by what we know it was a deliberate choice on Hawke's part (and you're quite right that he most certainly had his reasons for doing so). It makes sense out of character of course for the character not fighting the darkspawns since it's another story but it's certainly not your average heroic start (and thus it is interesting).

By the way I'm not disputing the idea (I find it interesting as I really wouldn't mind playing a coward, I RPed one in DAO and it was fun having my Grey Warden hididng behind Alistair during fights). I'm just pointing out that fleeing Ferelden at such times was not the heroic thing to do.

Regarding the Chasing theory, have we any clue pointing at the existence of Chasind Mages? That being said, an Apostate Mage would probably not care about others and let's face it running away from Templars is a fulltime job.

[Rpgsrock]

What Bioware should do is after you escape lothering you get a choice



1. run

2. fight



And if you choose to fight you die in a battle in the next 15 min if you run the rest of the game happens

[Kalcalan]

RunCDFirst wrote...

Maybe Hawke is so overcome with guilt from abandoning Lothering to the horde that he/she tries to redeem their past actions by rising as the Champion of Kirkwall and beyond.

I really like this idea.

[Riona45]

Dick Delaware wrote...
I forgot, Hawke could be a woman.

Just about everyone here "forgets."

[Nyaore]

Pretty much everyone with any sense of self preservation, or intelligence for that matter, got the hell out of Lothering before the horde descended upon it. Call it cowardice if you want. The way I see it, only a moron would have stayed for any length of time shortly before the horde stormed the town. There was absolutely no way anyone, not even the Warden, could have handled the full force of the horde and lived at that junction of the story. Hell, it took the Warden at least a year to amass an army large enough to have a fighting chance in those regards.

Leaving Lothering before all hell broke loose was the only sensible thing to do. Now leaving Ferelden entirely instead of trying to help defeat the Blight could be construed as cowardly; provided Hawke was actually old enough to engage in combat when the horde came a knocking. If he was merely a child when Lothering was destroyed then the point is moot.


I agree though that the whole guilt motif would be a good idea to help drive the story forward.

Modifié par Nyaore, 10 juillet 2010 - 11:01 .

[Riona45]

Kalcalan wrote...
Regarding the Chasing theory, have we any clue pointing at the existence of Chasind Mages? That being said, an Apostate Mage would probably not care about others and let's face it running away from Templars is a fulltime job.

Dalish Keepers and their apprentices are considered apostate mages and they care about others.  The term has nothing to do with morality.

[phaonica]

Kalcalan wrote...

night0205 wrote...

So... I find it funny that people are calling Hawke a coward from escaping Lothering before it was destroyed... But... Isn't that exactly what Warden did in Origins? Warden and his group left Lothering to find help against the Blight, because they couldn't fight the blight without that help. They knew that the blight was coming to Lothering, that was just obvious. They knew Lothering was going to be destroyed. And instead of staying, Warden left in order to find help and also not to get killed. So why is everyone so hard on Hawke?

I think people just like to be negative. Especially when they have no idea what happened, yet... 

I think you may be missing a point:

"However, rather than stay and fight the darkspawn menace, Hawke flees
Ferelden and heads north."

They stated this quite clearly. It is doubtful that Hawke would have been a child at the time if fighting was considered to be a possibility.

People criticise Hawke for being a coward, not because he fled Lothering but because he fled Ferelden... Look at it this way, Hawke could have enlisted with Denerim or Redcliffe forces and taken part in the fight to defend his/her homeland but Hawke didn't.

So it means that Hawke valued his/her safety more than duty towards Ferelden. That paints an interesting picture. Of course if Hawke fails to take part in the defense of Ferelden it make him/her a more interesting character because it is a flaw in the classic heroic type.

Hence, the game may allow some focus on Hawke's "failure" to stick around and fight for his country. That character is not a born hero but has the potential to become one. His "cowardice" can be seen as adding to Hawke's personality actually as it makes the protagonist a believable character. What some posters call a "sensible" decision is certainly not a grand heroic gesture and that is an interesting way to get started...

The way I see it (given what we know at the moment which I reckon isn't much) either Hawke can live up to this start and become some sort of Machiavellian character (rising to power no matter what the price is) or become a true hero who tries his/her best to make up for abandoning his homeland to the Blight and yearns to atone this past failure.

In any case that can only bring more depth to the character. I for one don't mind playing a coward, as I find such characters much more interesting than knights in shiny armours.

Well said, Kalcalan, I completely agree. Perhaps Hawke had a more noble reason for leaving Ferelden, perhaps he didn't. His story could still be compelling, even if it starts with a act of cowardice.

The "he might just have been a coward" explanation for leaving Lothering/Ferelden is just ONE of MANY possible reasons he could have left. Just because I see cowardice as a valid possibility doesn't mean that I don't see other potentially valid reasons.

Modifié par phaonica, 10 juillet 2010 - 11:07 .

[dragon_83]

I want Hawke to be a shameless coward who left Ferelden, left his friends die just to save his own hide. Not that I like bastards but it would be awesome to see his personality change, te see him rise up from a coward to a hero. This would make the story more interesting. Black and white characters are not as good as grey ones.

[SirOccam]

I think leaving Lothering is a sign of Hawke being sane rather than cowardly, but even if not...it's better story-wise if he's not already some amazing hero. You gotta leave SOME room for personal growth, you know?

[Jimmy Fury]

Kalcalan wrote...
Regarding the Chasing theory, have we any clue pointing at the existence of Chasind Mages? That being said, an Apostate Mage would probably not care about others and let's face it running away from Templars is a fulltime job.

I was always under the impression the Chasind remained outsiders to maintain their own culture and stay out from under the thumb of the Chantry (Jogby was there to preach to them afterall). Since Magic is something people are born with in Thedas then it makes since there would be Chasind mages and they'd all be considered apostates by default.

[AllThatJazz]

No reason why Hawke can't be a kid. I mean, it's technically possible for a 10 yr old to pick up a weapon and make a stand against the enemy (with a sword of Truthiness, perhaps?). A very short stand, in more ways than one, but still technically possible.



Also possible gameplay wise to play as a kid in the prologue. They did it in Fable, and that's the only time I want to make that comparison.



Having said that, I love two ideas here. 1) Hawke is the survivor of the family killed by Sten (Please, Bio, rewrite the story if this isn't already the case). If that's completely impossible then 2) Cowardly Hawke, who then spends the rest of the game trying to redeem herself for abandoning her loved ones in a moment of fear. Either of these would be wonderful.

[Arttis]

night0205 wrote...

So... I find it funny that people are calling Hawke a coward from escaping Lothering before it was destroyed... But... Isn't that exactly what Warden did in Origins? Warden and his group left Lothering to find help against the Blight, because they couldn't fight the blight without that help. They knew that the blight was coming to Lothering, that was just obvious. They knew Lothering was going to be destroyed. And instead of staying, Warden left in order to find help and also not to get killed. So why is everyone so hard on Hawke?

I think people just like to be negative. Especially when they have no idea what happened, yet... 

Yes people do like to be negative when they think it will have some purpose.
I think they are trying to make hawke look bad as much as they can for that faint hope of something changing.Of course nothing will.I have too much free time nowadays so I will just enjoy it all.

[IronVanguard]

Risax wrote...

night0205 wrote...

It would be cool if Hawke was the family that Sten killed.

 you just blew my mind sir.

Indeed.


Yeah, blaming him for leaving Lothering is a little extreme. Leaving the whole country could be called cowardly, but plenty of people did. I doubt he was alone on what ever boat floated him north. They do look like huge cowards once they hear how it turns out, though. What's that, two wardens and their small band saved everyone? Go figure.

I do like what it might mean for him, even though I'm among those not happy with the whole "pre-et" character thing.


Clearly though, this wouldn't have happened if only they had Commisars. lh4.ggpht.com/eomolina/R8skHyuV1FI/AAAAAAAACdo/KjK6Ta_q5Go/40k%20Commissars.jpg
file:///C:/Users/Owner/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.png

Modifié par IronVanguard, 10 juillet 2010 - 11:22 .

[dragon_83]

IronVanguard wrote...

Risax wrote...

night0205 wrote...

It would be cool if Hawke was the family that Sten killed.

 you just blew my mind sir.

Indeed.


Yeah, blaming him for leaving Lothering is a little extreme. Leaving the whole country could be called cowardly, but plenty of people did. I doubt he was alone on what ever boat floated him north. They do look like huge cowards once they hear how it turns out, though. What's that, two wardens and their small band saved everyone? Go figure.

I do like what it might mean for him, even though I'm among those not happy with the whole "pre-et" character thing.


Clearly though, this wouldn't have happened if only they had Commisars. lh4.ggpht.com/eomolina/R8skHyuV1FI/AAAAAAAACdo/KjK6Ta_q5Go/40k%20Commissars.jpg

Damn this picture is funny.

[elfdwarf]

how did he cross waking sea ?

what his reason left ferelden ?

kid hawke theories

[Jimmy Fury]

IronVanguard wrote...
Yeah, blaming him for leaving Lothering is a little extreme. Leaving the whole country could be called cowardly, but plenty of people did. I doubt he was alone on what ever boat floated him north. They do look like huge cowards once they hear how it turns out, though.

You mean the part where the Blight made it all the way across Ferelden, most of the country was destroyed, and countless people died horribly? Yep. Huge cowards to run from that.

[Vizkos]

Am I missing something, or is there no mention of Hawke even being a Grey Warden?

[AllThatJazz]

Elfdwarf - She was a refugee, followed a bunch of other people out of Lothering, got bundled onto a boat at the nearest bit of coastline (kid theory makes sense here, as most cultures seem to try and rescue non combatant women and children first). Was alone, and terrified and might just have seen her family being slaughtered, probably wouldn't have objected to being 'evacuated' to somewhere more remote. Free Marches seems pretty remote.

[AllThatJazz]

Prosthetics - Hawke isn't a Grey Warden. Don't think DA2 is about Grey Wardens.

[phaonica]

I don't think Hawke was a kid when s/he left Lothering.



"rather than stay and fight the darkspawn menace, Hawke flees Ferelden"



Why would it say "rather than stay and fight" if s/he was incapable of fighting. It sounds like someone who was a capable fighter who *chose* to flee.

[SDNcN]

Lets see:

The King and his army are completely decimated by the Darkspawn.
The Nobles leave the common folk to fend for themselves against the Darkspawn.
The new Arl of Denerim's army act more like armed thugs than trained soldiers.
There is a civil war over the throne while the Darkspawn tear up the country.
Also it might be safe to assume Hawke isn't aware that there are still Grey Wardens around gathering up the Dwarves, Dalish, and Circle of Magei to help against the Blight. In fact if anything he would probably hear how the Tower is sealed off and the Dwarves are in political turmoil due to the death of their King.

Completely ignoring our knowledge of what will happen, there seems to be very little hope for Ferelden. The practical thing for the average guy would be to either get to Denerim and hope the Guard can defend the city or get out of dodge and hope Orlais or the other countries eventually beat back the Darkspawn.

Modifié par SDNcN, 10 juillet 2010 - 11:35 .

[elfdwarf]

orphan cross sea with stranger

where did she/he get money for that?

hate female when get technical, now understand why shale call warden it

[Arttis]

I think Hawke hitched a ride with isabella.I think her name was.

[AllThatJazz]

Phaonica - like I said, technically a child (or young teenager) IS capable of fighing. Not well, and not for long, but there are many real world examples of children fighting in wars. I'm not assuming Hawke is a kid, but nothing said so far has convinced me that it's impossible.



Elfdwarf - don't worry, I play girls so will always call Hawke 'She', feel free to refer to 'him'. I'm assuming that the Chantry, or local fishermen, local teyrn, or someone, will have provided the boats free to the passengers, given the state of emergency. Hell, maybe running around finding funds for the boat trip is part of the prologue (hope not, though).