Planescape was popular as a tabletop setting which was the drive behind the video games success. I personally never cared for the planescape setting so I never got the game. There were a lot of interesting settings being pushed out that time...Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Planescape, Spell Jammer, Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms.
Bioware: For stealing control from the player, the burden is on you.
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condiments1
, juil. 10 2010 08:11
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#27
Posté 11 juillet 2010 - 12:35
Norman250
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I'm not too thrilled with the changes to DA either in the DA2, but let's be honest guys, Bioware has some of the best video game writers ever. Their stories are amazingly dynamic, I will never criticize them for that.
#28
Posté 11 juillet 2010 - 12:38
Tooneyman
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Norman250 wrote...
I'm not too thrilled with the changes to DA either in the DA2, but let's be honest guys, Bioware has some of the best video game writers ever. Their stories are amazingly dynamic, I will never criticize them for that.
Only if its contructive and intelligent. All writers need this its our ultimate love. We need it like a druggy needs their next fix. This comes from being a writer myself. Bioware wants you to give them criticism. Just make sure its contructive and intelligent.
#29
Posté 11 juillet 2010 - 12:45
_-Greywolf-_
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Jestina wrote...
Planescape was popular as a tabletop setting which was the drive behind the video games success. I personally never cared for the planescape setting so I never got the game. There were a lot of interesting settings being pushed out that time...Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Planescape, Spell Jammer, Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms.
Really? I thought Planescape: Torment diddnt sell very well and it was because of its setting?
#30
Posté 11 juillet 2010 - 01:44
Aetheria
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I don't get it. What significant character customization options are being taken away in DA2? The only real difference, as far as I can tell, is that Hawke will always be human. DA:O had origin stories, but these were all predefined in themselves; the player just picked one, without exerting control over the details of the character's origin. Unlike the Warden, Hawke has a "preset" face in promo images, but this has little to do with how the player will experience the game itself - it's reasonable to assume that we'll be able to customize his/her appearance. Hawke will have a predefined voice, but again this isn't an option that's being taken away; previously we had no choice but to have a silent protagonist, now we have no choice but to have a voiced one. Still the same amount of choice.
So, you can't be an elf or dwarf. Is that really going to have all that great an impact on the way you can characterize your PC? As far as your character's inner life and personality, it's not. In fantasy settings like this, elves and dwarves are basically thin humans and short humans. They have different cultures, but not outside the realm of human experience. They're fun because they introduce variety in the same way that differing human cultures do, but they're not different from human characters in any truly meaningful way; they're not really alien - for if they were, we'd have trouble identifying with them as player-controlled characters.
As for the quality of the story, there is indeed tension in games between giving the player agency and meeting the demands of a compelling narrative. It's hard to tell a real masterpiece of a story without removing some control from the player, and I would even go so far as to suggest that a story that, written down, would look like Dostoevsky or Shakespeare is nigh impossible to tell in a cRPG, because the creator has to make the story he's trying to tell work with the various different ones the player wants to create.
Aside from that, a video game like Dragon Age II is also about creating a fun experience for the player, and thisdoesn't rely on story alone. This is the reason why a story that might seem repetitive and formulaic in a novel works better in a game - because the fact that you're playing through it yourself makes it interesting and makes you less inclined to question what happens in the game world. (It's worth noting that real life is often repetitive and disjointed, and hardly ever gives us neat and tidy stories in which everything serves a narrative purpose.) And there's really nothing wrong with that, as long as it's balanced in such a way that the game continues to be fun - which is its primary goal.
So if the story of DA2 follows the "Bioware formula," that's not necessarily a bad thing. The formula is fun - that's why it's become a formula. I'd like to see them break away from it a bit, and what we've heard about the story so far sounds promising, but if they stick to it, it's not going to be a worse game than DA:O, at the very least. I don't expect these games to change my outlook on life (a medium in which the viewer has so much control seems singularly unsuited for that). I like them for what they are: good honest time-wasting entertainment.
So, you can't be an elf or dwarf. Is that really going to have all that great an impact on the way you can characterize your PC? As far as your character's inner life and personality, it's not. In fantasy settings like this, elves and dwarves are basically thin humans and short humans. They have different cultures, but not outside the realm of human experience. They're fun because they introduce variety in the same way that differing human cultures do, but they're not different from human characters in any truly meaningful way; they're not really alien - for if they were, we'd have trouble identifying with them as player-controlled characters.
As for the quality of the story, there is indeed tension in games between giving the player agency and meeting the demands of a compelling narrative. It's hard to tell a real masterpiece of a story without removing some control from the player, and I would even go so far as to suggest that a story that, written down, would look like Dostoevsky or Shakespeare is nigh impossible to tell in a cRPG, because the creator has to make the story he's trying to tell work with the various different ones the player wants to create.
Aside from that, a video game like Dragon Age II is also about creating a fun experience for the player, and thisdoesn't rely on story alone. This is the reason why a story that might seem repetitive and formulaic in a novel works better in a game - because the fact that you're playing through it yourself makes it interesting and makes you less inclined to question what happens in the game world. (It's worth noting that real life is often repetitive and disjointed, and hardly ever gives us neat and tidy stories in which everything serves a narrative purpose.) And there's really nothing wrong with that, as long as it's balanced in such a way that the game continues to be fun - which is its primary goal.
So if the story of DA2 follows the "Bioware formula," that's not necessarily a bad thing. The formula is fun - that's why it's become a formula. I'd like to see them break away from it a bit, and what we've heard about the story so far sounds promising, but if they stick to it, it's not going to be a worse game than DA:O, at the very least. I don't expect these games to change my outlook on life (a medium in which the viewer has so much control seems singularly unsuited for that). I like them for what they are: good honest time-wasting entertainment.
#31
Posté 11 juillet 2010 - 01:55
condiments1
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Norman250 wrote...
I'm not too thrilled with the changes to DA either in the DA2, but let's be honest guys, Bioware has some of the best video game writers ever. Their stories are amazingly dynamic, I will never criticize them for that.
Well there isn't much competition in the game industry for best writing currently unfortunately. Its just that with each new iteration Bioware time and time again has proven themselves very unambitious in terms of storytelling. Dragon Age 2 might prove to break the formula they've been unshameably using for many years over and over.
They stuff they've produced doesn't compare to Planescape Torment, Grim Fandango, The Longest Journey, Dues Ex, Silent Hill 2, etc.
So if the story of DA2 follows the "Bioware formula," that's not
necessarily a bad thing. The formula is fun - that's why it's become a
formula. I'd like to see them break away from it a bit, and what we've
heard about the story so far sounds promising, but if they stick to it,
it's not going to be a worse game than DA:O, at the very least. I don't
expect these games to change my outlook on life (a medium in which the
viewer has so much control seems singularly unsuited for that). I like
them for what they are: good honest time-wasting entertainment.
Well, I'm actually of the opinion that videogames can be more than just time wasting enterntainment, they should at least capable of emotional resonance. However this will never happen if people are content with the same thing over over...nor will it ever happen if people think they aren't capable.
Bioware, fun is good and all, but I also want you to show me something meaningful.
Modifié par condiments1, 11 juillet 2010 - 02:16 .
#32
Posté 11 juillet 2010 - 07:40
Norman250
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[quote]Aetheria wrote...
I don't get it. What significant character customization options are being taken away in DA2? The only real difference, as far as I can tell, is that Hawke will always be human. DA:O had origin stories, but these were all predefined in themselves; the player just picked one, without exerting control over the details of the character's origin. Unlike the Warden, Hawke has a "preset" face in promo images, but this has little to do with how the player will experience the game itself - it's reasonable to assume that we'll be able to customize his/her appearance. Hawke will have a predefined voice, but again this isn't an option that's being taken away; previously we had no choice but to have a silent protagonist, now we have no choice but to have a voiced one. Still the same amount of choice.
Yeah, I agree Hawke being Human is the only real change to Character Customization ability, but I'd argue choosing your species qualifies as a significant change.
I don't get it. What significant character customization options are being taken away in DA2? The only real difference, as far as I can tell, is that Hawke will always be human. DA:O had origin stories, but these were all predefined in themselves; the player just picked one, without exerting control over the details of the character's origin. Unlike the Warden, Hawke has a "preset" face in promo images, but this has little to do with how the player will experience the game itself - it's reasonable to assume that we'll be able to customize his/her appearance. Hawke will have a predefined voice, but again this isn't an option that's being taken away; previously we had no choice but to have a silent protagonist, now we have no choice but to have a voiced one. Still the same amount of choice.
Yeah, I agree Hawke being Human is the only real change to Character Customization ability, but I'd argue choosing your species qualifies as a significant change.
#33
Posté 11 juillet 2010 - 07:41
Norman250
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That second part wasn't meant to be in the quote box.
