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Is it the accent?


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#201
LPPrince

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Master Shiori wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

People should accept a non-positive "walk off into the sunset" ending.

Its different. I like leaving the Warden's story on "I'll find you Morrigan" and keeping the ring.

I like sad endings as much as anyone (from time to time), but there's a difference between sad/tragic and unresolved.

The whole GodBaby thing, plus vowing to find her, plus the ring thing...it's too much story for it to be the end. If she had just disappeared, I still wouldn't be thrilled, but it would be a lot easier to swallow.

I really don't need a happy ending (though I would like one). If Morrigan dies, or there is an opportunity for the GW to die while saving her and/or the child, I would take that option in a heartbeat over what we have now. Of course, if it's the former, then I would hope they let us end the game taking our customary trip to the Deep Roads to go out in typical Grey Warden fashion.


Unresolved should be just fine. Is it so hard to think The Warden one day found Morrigan and his child, and they lived happily ever after?

Or The Warden one day found out that Morrigan ate his baby and became the Queen of England?

Or Norway. Whichever's funnier in context.

EDIT- NO, FINLAND!


It would be fine under the condition that you don't see Morrigan again in a future DA title.

I can easily build up an ending that I like in my head, but that will only last until I see Morrigan once again and realize that ending was simply my imagination and the Warden got lost in limbo and never found her in the first place.


True. We'll see if Morrigan has a role in DA2.

#202
TSamee

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Not going to read the wall of text there :)

The only answer I can come up with here is that BioWare designed Hawke as a particular character, with a set backstory and "origin story". He's got his own story and he's been designed to be human. Perhaps Hawke's gender (though I'm referring to Hawke as a he) is irrelevant, or perhaps male and female Hawke are designed as two completely different characters. Dwarves and Elves have distinctive temperaments and personality traits, ones which evidently wouldn't work with Hawke. It's like casting Zev or Morrigan as a dwarf, or Sten as an elf. It just doesn't work.



In a nutshell: Hawke is a character, he/she isn't just the PC, and consequently customising his race could jar with the character. He has VA because he's his own character, different races doesn't just mean different VA, it means different personalities, characters and scripts.

#203
Cipher266

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TeenZombie wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...
Thoughts?  Am I missing another development related reason for restricting race selection this time around, other than not wanting to create separate origins?  I can see easy ways to place an elf or a dwarf in Lothering during the Blight...after all, we do meet Bodahn and Sandal there, and an elven family...so why not our character?

Does there have to be an ulterior motivation behind it?

This is the story we wanted to tell, of this one particular human.


Don't get me wrong, I do like the characters you and the other DA writers have created, and I have always wanted a Human Commoner origin, so this new story should be up my alley -- but I also loved having *my* player characters interact with the fully fleshed out characters I met in Dragon Age.  It was still possible for me to create more than one character from each origin, and yet give them each their own personalities and background.  I'm worried that this won't be possible any more.

I was hoping that there was a development related reason for making the hero human, because I didn't want to believe that restricting our choices was an easy choice to make for Dragon Age 2.  Fans who enjoy the first game want choices and flexibility in roleplaying.   And even while I'm happy that I can finally play the "everywoman" human commoner, I would have liked to also be able to replay as an elf or a dwarf, after I've finished a playthrough as a human.

Letting people use their imagination when it comes to the hero of the story in an RPG is still a good thing, right?  :(


Bioware wants us to replay and replay the game as much as we do. I think every time you play it will be very differnetPosted Image

#204
Wynne

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David Gaider wrote...
Does there have to be an ulterior motivation behind it?

This is the story we wanted to tell, of this one particular human.


Not necessarily ulterior, but I think a lot of people are struggling somewhat with the motivation, since we don't yet have hints at the reason (that may of course change after the GI article comes out). Especially those of us who came to ardently love playing the dwarves and/or elves and expect to miss that feeling.

I want to love the human thing, and as long as we get a good range of customization and dialogue options I'm still fully expecting to. I just find myself curious about why. Are potential spoilers involved? Or does it just plain lead to a more focused and enriching narrative when the writers know some concrete things about the main character? More time expended on character interactions without having to plan for 90 different possibilities of what the PC might be? So far, that's my assumption, and it's sure not anything I would complain about. I would
like to feel that Hawke is as interesting as any other character in the game; I want to love deciding what (s)he is going to say. The wider the scope of choice for your protagonist, the less interesting the options can be; years of Bethesda games would've taught me that if nothing else, and I don't find the concept of "complete and total freedom of character creation, name and all" as fun as I used to. If I wanted total  freedom, I'd play tabletop D&D or go do a vampire LARP (and I'm not saying I don't do either... okay, I do both, I'm a geek of epic proportions) or maybe even write a book. In a CRPG, I like a protagonist that I can shape, but who is at least a shadow of a character; otherwise I end up feeling like they don't belong in their own universe, especially if the characters around them are full of life and personality in contrast, joking and expressing feelings and sharing memories and making lots of facial expressions. I'd rather put a bit more control back in the writer's hands and hopefully get back more fun in exchange. If a narrower focus fosters that kind of feeling, then I am all on board and waving the flag. (And ready to kick any mutineers overboard; arr...)

The only thing that underwhelms me somewhat here is that it's a human, just because you do play one of those in most games ever made. I'm assuming there's a solid reason that will become apparent at some point and that might even be exciting. I really think that knowing the reasons why Hawke must be human, whenever that happens, will help shush a lot of people's doubts. Personally, I find it helps to think about the potential possibility of an elf or half-dwarf protagonist in a future game. (I don't guess the latter will happen, but I do think it would be awesome.)

Some people complain that this is turning into Mass Effect. I think it sounds more like a small step in that direction, a happy medium between too much and too little choice, and I'm looking forward to the experience.

David Gaider wrote...

Assuming there are future games, that's exactly correct. There are many different ways to tell a story, and different elements we would want to focus on in each. DAO was about the Grey Warden-- a role that you had to undertake and which, if you'll recall, summoned a similar reaction when it was first mentioned. Thisstory is about a human refugee. Future stories could be about anything at all-- with the one thread between them being the development of Thedas as a world and how your choices impact upon it. That's what we're doing, in a nutshell.


I had that hope, that future DA titles wouldn't necessarily be limited by the :Origins subtitle, and I'm delighted to see it confirmed. The last thing anybody would want is for you folks to stagnate and get bored with what you're doing, after all. Some of the decisions so far are surprising me, but far better a surprise than another game set in Ferelden featuring far too much of the familiar. Though there was a lot that I loved about DAO, I would never want DA2 to be an echo of the first game.

Dave of
Canada wrote...

Quinnzel wrote...
The only accent that should count is the sweet sultry tone of Claudia Black....or Mark Meer.


HA, no.

Posted Image


Oh, Dave of Canada, this is why I love you. Saying what I was already  thinking in a way that is just so much more fun than I could have executed myself.

Modifié par Wynne, 12 juillet 2010 - 12:03 .


#205
Drasanil

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David Gaider wrote...

This is the story we wanted to tell, of this one particular human.



I kind of have to call bull on that. If such is the case why give the option for gender? It can make just as big, if not outright bigger, difference as race. You could have saved money by just getting one VO instead of two for what supposed to be the same character, after all it’s a story about that particular human.

Hell, if you wanted to tell the story of a particular human you could have at least made him really particular and given him an eye patch, spandex and a lyrium powered wheel-chairPosted Image


PS: The post shouldn’t be taken entirely seriously. However, it’s rather disappointing DA2 is going down the same rout as other RPGs like the Witcher and Fable and forcing a specific character on us, DA was one of the few RPGs left where you actually had some choice in who you played which was a major draw.

Modifié par Drasanil, 12 juillet 2010 - 12:35 .


#206
Ulicus

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Drasanil wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

This is the story we wanted to tell, of this one particular human.

I kind of have to call bull on that. If such is the case why give the option for gender? It can make just as big, if not outright bigger, difference as race.

In Thedas? Really?

I'm gonna have to disagree, there.

#207
DahliaLynn

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javierabegazo wrote...

And it's NOT called "DAO 2"

It's called DA2.


you stole my line..that was MY argument :P

i'll add...DA:O
--notice the colon <_<

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 12 juillet 2010 - 01:04 .


#208
joriandrake

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DahliaLynn wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

And it's NOT called "DAO 2"

It's called DA2.


you stole my line..that was MY argument :P


so, let's say the new undertitle will be "castles" for Dragon Age 2, and while racial options and origins are removed now you will be able to buy/build castles and improve/modernize them and your very own army

then comes Dragon Age 3, with undertitle "Wings", so all the castle construction and leadership things of DA2 would get removed and you may get ability to fly as a dragon

So, what exactly would these three (DA1, DA2, DA3) make sequels to eachother? nothing, because simply being in the same setting does not make them really sequels, just as I won't ever recognize Fallout 3 as a real sequel to F1 and F2

#209
Rocambole4

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OriginsIsBest wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...
Thoughts?  Am I missing another development related reason for restricting race selection this time around, other than not wanting to create separate origins?  I can see easy ways to place an elf or a dwarf in Lothering during the Blight...after all, we do meet Bodahn and Sandal there, and an elven family...so why not our character?

Does there have to be an ulterior motivation behind it?

This is the story we wanted to tell, of this one particular human.

Yes YOUR story, this is why most of us dont like the sound of Dragon age 2, and why so many of us are disapointed.


I don't mean to sound obnoxious, but you know you have to BELIEVE that it's "your" story and just make it work in your mind, right?

It was, in the first game too, a scripted story. You played one of 6 origins (not your, free, sandbox-game origin) for 2 hours, then played a 60 hour game with one or 2 NPC speech line changes due to your race or gender. You could or course ally with the werewolves or the elves (etc) but, hey, you could NOT abandon the grey wardens and go live in a cave or something.

Bottom line, they can give us ALMOST the same degree of real freedom - who to ally to, what ending of the possible 4 to choose - even if there's a fixed protagonist. I think the fully voice acted part makes up for it. Of course I'd prefer to be able to choose EVERYTHING, inclusing different voices to my character - but hey, that's not how things work, at least at this point, in this industry. Bioware is already forcing a (very positive) change with the fully voice acted games, so I'll trust their decisions.

#210
BigEd420

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David Gaider wrote...

Paromlin wrote...
Yeah, yeah, I know it's Bioware's new interactive mov.., I mean, game. And I chose not to like it.


As you wish. We're under no illusions that everyone is going to like our decisions.

I'd suggest waiting to learn more before you make sweeping pronouncements, however. Slinking back into a room after you've made a dramatic exit and slammed the door behind you can be pretty awkward. ;)


That made me giggle

#211
joriandrake

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BigEd420 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Paromlin wrote...
Yeah, yeah, I know it's Bioware's new interactive mov.., I mean, game. And I chose not to like it.


As you wish. We're under no illusions that everyone is going to like our decisions.

I'd suggest waiting to learn more before you make sweeping pronouncements, however. Slinking back into a room after you've made a dramatic exit and slammed the door behind you can be pretty awkward. ;)


That made me giggle



btw, Dragon Age will have its own anime as I heard, is it true? Will it canonize stuff?

#212
TSamee

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To be honest, I'm really happy with the decision. Sure, I'll miss the Origins system and all, but the lack of Paragon/Renegade here makes me hopeful. My biggest fear was that we'd lose all the morally grey situations that DA was filled with in favour of ME's system (essentially a good/bad choice system). Don't get me wrong, I like that too; it helps the dialogue flow faster and eliminates situations where you spend time wondering what to say.



However, if the wheel is used to simply limit the number of options, and thus make it possible to have full VA, then I'm all for it. It seems like BioWare's giving Hawke a proper backstory too, instead of a vague "past", like in Mass Effect. That can only be a good thing; Shepard was great, don't get me wrong, but in making her/him we tried customising a character for use in a third-person narrative. Consequently, Shepard occupies a limbo between DA's completely first-person PC system and the predefined heroes of other game. I think BW is leaning more towards predefined hero with Hawke, and fleshing him out as a character while still letting us customise his looks and make choices. Don't know about you, but it sounds amazing to me; reminds me a bit of Deus Ex.

#213
Wynne

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Drasanil wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

This is the story we wanted to tell, of this one particular human.


I kind of have to call bull on that. If such is the case why give the option for gender? It can make just as big, if not outright bigger, difference as race. You could have saved money by just getting one VO instead of two for what supposed to be the same character, after all it’s a story about that particular human.


*epic facedesk moment* 

Dude, you have to know you're not being completely reasonable here. Think about it a little harder. Mass Effect would be an INCREDIBLY different game if you played as, say, a KROGAN--but not as much when you're a female. When you're a female, your love interests change and people say you're a pretty lady instead of a handsome dude. That's about it for all the important stuff. But if you were a krogan, all of that would change. Politically, sexually, morally, organically, you would be a different creature altogether.

Sure, there's more similarity between a human and an elf than a krogan--but the political and genetic and practical factors present are similarly strong, not to mention that your social standing will be different. Gender, in Ferelden and seemingly elsewhere as well, is nowhere near as significant. All it affects, really, is romance and whether people refer to you as she--although, 'Hawke' will do most of the time, likely. If you were an elf, not so--they would have to plan for elven names; a dwarf, dwarven names... they have a naming system and it could throw off a lot of things. They're faithful to their own lore. Gender is no problem, whereas race definitely is.

The point of "Hawke" is having a name that the characters will actually be speaking aloud to refer to you. They couldn't do that with six or even three different possible surnames without sacrificing a lot of lines, disk space, and money for voice acting. They can with Hawke.

Remember that in DAO, whether or not you can marry the person you are in love with is drastically affected by whether or not you are a human. In DAO it didn't matter so much if you romanced Zevran as a human vs. if you did so as an elf or a dwarf--but this time, they KNOW that you are a human. If you romance an elf, it can now matter. They don't have to plan for every possible race, they can say there IS drama when you romance an elf because you are definitely not also an elf. That elf can now have definite reasons to feel guilt over not protecting their own species by propagating with another elf, by being a "traitor" to their race. The relationship can struggle with that over the course of a long period of time. You could meet that elf, have strained contact with them, all kinds of UST and longing... or maybe have a friendship of the same sort, where status is a barrier.

They don't have endless money, time, and resources to make this game. Narrowing it down to one race and origin may seem like a big sacrifice, but it allows them to make other things a LOT more interesting/dramatic if they want to. It may just be worth it.

Furthermore, there are no elves and no Tolkien-style dwarves in the real world to get pissed and not buy the game if the player is forced to play as a human, whereas Bioware's many female customers might be angry enough not to touch DA2. They don't run that risk this way. Most people can get over the lack of elf and dwarf PCs far better than they think at first glance--I think very few women would just "get over" suddenly being forced to play a male again. As if we aren't already forced to do that in most games.

No, Bioware is doing this the smart way. Precisely how good a choice this is remains to be seen, but jumping to conclusions is just plain ridiculous at this point.

#214
LPPrince

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Wynne wrote...

Drasanil wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

This is the story we wanted to tell, of this one particular human.


I kind of have to call bull on that. If such is the case why give the option for gender? It can make just as big, if not outright bigger, difference as race. You could have saved money by just getting one VO instead of two for what supposed to be the same character, after all it’s a story about that particular human.


*epic facedesk moment* 

Dude, you have to know you're not being completely reasonable here. Think about it a little harder. Mass Effect would be an INCREDIBLY different game if you played as, say, a KROGAN--but not as much when you're a female. When you're a female, your love interests change and people say you're a pretty lady instead of a handsome dude. That's about it for all the important stuff. But if you were a krogan, all of that would change. Politically, sexually, morally, organically, you would be a different creature altogether.

Sure, there's more similarity between a human and an elf than a krogan--but the political and genetic and practical factors present are similarly strong, not to mention that your social standing will be different. Gender, in Ferelden and seemingly elsewhere as well, is nowhere near as significant. All it affects, really, is romance and whether people refer to you as she--although, 'Hawke' will do most of the time, likely. If you were an elf, not so--they would have to plan for elven names; a dwarf, dwarven names... they have a naming system and it could throw off a lot of things. They're faithful to their own lore. Gender is no problem, whereas race definitely is.

The point of "Hawke" is having a name that the characters will actually be speaking aloud to refer to you. They couldn't do that with six or even three different possible surnames without sacrificing a lot of lines, disk space, and money for voice acting. They can with Hawke.

Remember that in DAO, whether or not you can marry the person you are in love with is drastically affected by whether or not you are a human. In DAO it didn't matter so much if you romanced Zevran as a human vs. if you did so as an elf or a dwarf--but this time, they KNOW that you are a human. If you romance an elf, it can now matter. They don't have to plan for every possible race, they can say there IS drama when you romance an elf because you are definitely not also an elf. That elf can now have definite reasons to feel guilt over not protecting their own species by propagating with another elf, by being a "traitor" to their race. The relationship can struggle with that over the course of a long period of time. You could meet that elf, have strained contact with them, all kinds of UST and longing... or maybe have a friendship of the same sort, where status is a barrier.

They don't have endless money, time, and resources to make this game. Narrowing it down to one race and origin may seem like a big sacrifice, but it allows them to make other things a LOT more interesting/dramatic if they want to. It may just be worth it.

Furthermore, there are no elves and no Tolkien-style dwarves in the real world to get pissed and not buy the game if the player is forced to play as a human, whereas Bioware's many female customers might be angry enough not to touch DA2. They don't run that risk this way. Most people can get over the lack of elf and dwarf PCs far better than they think at first glance--I think very few women would just "get over" suddenly being forced to play a male again. As if we aren't already forced to do that in most games.

No, Bioware is doing this the smart way. Precisely how good a choice this is remains to be seen, but jumping to conclusions is just plain ridiculous at this point.


Great post as always, Wynne. You are still full of win.