241 réponses à ce sujet

[JeanLuc761]

This is mildly off-topic and I apologize, but it's posts like that of Javier's, Ecael's and David's that give me hope. Thank you for staying positive and level-headed even in the face of overwhelming insanity.

[LPPrince]

Bioware does take its fans seriously.



The whole reason Javi's a mod is because he helped the fans collect information on ME2 before it released, and was always respectful and kept a cool head.



I was right there with him, cept I was more extreme in that I didn't always keep a cool head, lol. Hell, my "Miranda and Her Voice" video is still on youtube. The video where I recorded Mass Effect Galaxy so people could have an idea of what Miranda would look and sound like in ME2.



Bioware likes people who go out of their way.

[javierabegazo]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

This is mildly off-topic and I apologize, but it's posts like that of Javier's, Ecael's and David's that give me hope. Thank you for staying positive and level-headed even in the face of overwhelming insanity.

Insanity's not that bad, Just Cloak, Boom Headshot and you're done

[JeanLuc761]

javierabegazo wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

This is mildly off-topic and I apologize, but it's posts like that of Javier's, Ecael's and David's that give me hope. Thank you for staying positive and level-headed even in the face of overwhelming insanity.

Insanity's not that bad, Just Cloak, Boom Headshot and you're done

This one sees what you did there

[Tsuga C]

Samb84 wrote...

I was just wondering, there is a lot of whining going on right now since they released a little info about DA2 but is there a chance they will listen? 

More than you'd think, but less than you'd hope.  I've done more than my fair share of complaining and prodding over the years and David Gaider in particular deserves a solid pat on the back for being a responsive and decent fellow.  The inclusion of Dog and his collar/armor (kaddis) slots, the character of Kell in The Calling--I'm sure there's more (MOAR!!!) fan input that the BioWare team have incorporated here and there.

If you make a fair point fairly, you just might get it to stick. 

[Ecael]

javierabegazo wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

This is mildly off-topic and I apologize, but it's posts like that of Javier's, Ecael's and David's that give me hope. Thank you for staying positive and level-headed even in the face of overwhelming insanity.

Insanity's not that bad, Just Cloak, Boom Headshot and you're done

I just spam Biotic Charge on Insanity.

Coincidentally, that could be used to define my posting style as well.

[element eater]

@ javierabegazo

good response : )

[andar91]

Sure, they listen. Remember the character creator? I remember being a part of that conversation on something we would like leading up to the game's release to sate our appetites.



The problem is that the people who are freaking out are freaking out about something that we don't really know about yet. We know little bits of information but people are taking it and drawing conclusions from the empty air. I'm not saying some of the concerns aren't valid (though I, personally, don't share many of them) but people need to take a deep breath, wait for some more information, and then form opinions.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I just cloaked and ran to all the autosaves

[LPPrince]

Off topic- I'm with E. VANGUARDS FTW.



On topic- We need more posters that have the same sense of maturity as David. Hard to find, but damn it, we need more.

[_-Greywolf-_]

Samb84 wrote...

I was just wondering, there is a lot of whining going on right now since they released a little info about DA2 but is there a chance they will listen? 

I think the game is too far into development to be changed now, however even if they could change things they would have to believe that the fans ideas are better than their own.

Bioware is going to make the game it wants to make, while I am disappointed with a lot of the design choices at the moment I am not the one who is making the game. Bioware is going to make the game according to their own preferences and we have to either accept that or not purchase the game at all.

[Mary Kirby]

LPPrince wrote...

Javi hits it again.

Hell, when I spoke to Patrick Weekes, I referred to him as "Mr. Weekes" many times.

Speaking of which, where is he anyway?

I'm pretty sure the Mass Effect team keeps Patrick in a hermetically sealed container somewhere in the labyrinth of their offices downstairs, so that only the most stalwart heroes make it through to distract him from writing things which are awesome.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

javierabegazo wrote...

When feedback is presented in a civil and intelligent manner, ofcourse they read it. If there's a post raging about "blah blah console sellout EA blows, blah blah" they don't read past the first few words.

But just because a small percentage of their customer base isn't getting a custom game tailored to them, BioWare isn't going to retract announcements and scrap all their plans to please what barely amounts to not even 10% (yes, that's us on the forums).

I disagree with the small percentage that you are alluding too.  Since DAO was released, and players had time to make their first playthroughs, the developers did start asking and getting very good responses on what we wanted to see next. The responses that I saw for the most part were respectful on all sides.   Let me try to explain what I'm getting at -- each owner of the game for those that have played all of the origins as an example. 

Six different origins with an investment of say 80 hours per each origin equals 480 hours of invested time.  It was obvious after having so much play time invested that we did want to see continuation of our wardens after having placed so much time for each character development, then we are given this Hawk guy instead is a slap in the face.  You can try to tell yourself we're just a small percentage if you wish to stick your heads in the sand to this fact.  It was obvious what the fans of DAO's wanted in a second game.  Many even said, they would be happy with an expanison to fully end their original warden to move on to DA2.  Doesn't look like this will be forthcoming either. 

It's obvious BioWare has taken the game in the direction "THEY" wanted to which in all fairness is their right it's their title along with EA, and not what their fanbase wanted and now that fanbase has be reduced to being called small percentage was very done. 

It's also obvious BioWare and EA can't take any critique of their game.  These artist types....

[LPPrince]

Mary Kirby wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Javi hits it again.

Hell, when I spoke to Patrick Weekes, I referred to him as "Mr. Weekes" many times.

Speaking of which, where is he anyway?

I'm pretty sure the Mass Effect team keeps Patrick in a hermetically sealed container somewhere in the labyrinth of their offices downstairs, so that only the most stalwart heroes make it through to distract him from writing things which are awesome.

BUT I MISS HIM MARY! SEND HIM SOME FLOWERS OR SOMETHING, JESUS CHRIST.

Can he even breathe down there? Someone get him some fresh air!

[heretica]

Mary Kirby wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Javi hits it again.

Hell, when I spoke to Patrick Weekes, I referred to him as "Mr. Weekes" many times.

Speaking of which, where is he anyway?

I'm pretty sure the Mass Effect team keeps Patrick in a hermetically sealed container somewhere in the labyrinth of their offices downstairs, so that only the most stalwart heroes make it through to distract him from writing things which are awesome.

Mary Kirby, your replies make my day. Thank you.

[LPPrince]

Catt128 wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Javi hits it again.

Hell, when I spoke to Patrick Weekes, I referred to him as "Mr. Weekes" many times.

Speaking of which, where is he anyway?

I'm pretty sure the Mass Effect team keeps Patrick in a hermetically sealed container somewhere in the labyrinth of their offices downstairs, so that only the most stalwart heroes make it through to distract him from writing things which are awesome.

Mary Kirby, your replies make my day. Thank you.

Isn't she marvelous?

She's marvelous.

[Samb84]

Tsuga C wrote...

Samb84 wrote...

I was just wondering, there is a lot of whining going on right now since they released a little info about DA2 but is there a chance they will listen? 

More than you'd think, but less than you'd hope.  I've done more than my fair share of complaining and prodding over the years and David Gaider in particular deserves a solid pat on the back for being a responsive and decent fellow.  The inclusion of Dog and his collar/armor (kaddis) slots, the character of Kell in The Calling--I'm sure there's more (MOAR!!!) fan input that the BioWare team have incorporated here and there.

If you make a fair point fairly, you just might get it to stick. 

I have to say that as a day like this I'm surprised he has been so active as he has today, which is great!

[Davasar]

You wat cognitive, and logical response?

You got it.

Admittedly, I have laid some fairly scathing remarks on these forums. That is to try to get attention of the game makers, so lets try another path.

First off: saying people are immature, crying what have you. Thats called argument ad homenum. Just because you label something doesnt mean thats what it is.

A good example being that people saying DA2 is utter garbage. There may be some really nice features to the game, so the statement would be false.

The outcry comes from yet another feeling of betrayal that a game company finally made something that these gamers liked, and it was commercially successful. Even more so then the future release that is being based off a less successful title due to how the game plays.

The key to holding onto your core audience is to use that which worked to capture that core audience, and expand and improve those features, and make new features.

Not take things away.

Thats basic marketing. If I as a gamer am your target audience, then why go out of the way to alienate me? Does that make sense from a bottom line stand point?

No.

What people are basically trying (and filaing) to articulate in some aspects is: "The game was awesome, why are you not counting me as your atarget audience anymore?"

The question has not been answered, but it hasnt been asked.

EAoware maybe will answer this question now, since it is being poster here.

Anyway, thats my two cents.

Modifié par Davasar, 10 juillet 2010 - 09:24 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

When feedback is presented in a civil and intelligent manner, ofcourse they read it. If there's a post raging about "blah blah console sellout EA blows, blah blah" they don't read past the first few words.

But just because a small percentage of their customer base isn't getting a custom game tailored to them, BioWare isn't going to retract announcements and scrap all their plans to please what barely amounts to not even 10% (yes, that's us on the forums).

I disagree with the small percentage that you are alluding too.  Since DAO was released, and players had time to make their first playthroughs, the developers did start asking and getting very good responses on what we wanted to see next. The responses that I saw for the most part were respectful on all sides.   Let me try to explain what I'm getting at -- each owner of the game for those that have played all of the origins as an example. 

Six different origins with an investment of say 80 hours per each origin equals 480 hours of invested time.  It was obvious after having so much play time invested that we did want to see continuation of our wardens after having placed so much time for each character development, then we are given this Hawk guy instead is a slap in the face.  You can try to tell yourself we're just a small percentage if you wish to stick your heads in the sand to this fact.  It was obvious what the fans of DAO's wanted in a second game.  Many even said, they would be happy with an expanison to fully end their original warden to move on to DA2.  Doesn't look like this will be forthcoming either. 

It's obvious BioWare has taken the game in the direction "THEY" wanted to which in all fairness is their right it's their title along with EA, and not what their fanbase wanted and now that fanbase has be reduced to being called small percentage was very well done. 

It's also obvious BioWare and EA can't take any critique of their game, the negative responses coming on DA2 and the locked threads on this forum today show this.  These artist types....

[David Gaider]

_-Greywolf-_ wrote...
I think the game is too far into development to be changed now, however even if they could change things they would have to believe that the fans ideas are better than their own.

I think it'd be a rare thing for an idea to come from a single fan. That'd have to be a "lightning strike" of an idea-- sort of "oh wow, why didn't we think of that before?" I can think of perhaps two times in my career that this has happened.

Other ideas tend to develop as a consensus. More of "there seems to be a lot of people on the forums who think X would be a good idea" followed by "maybe we could do something like that? What do you think?" and we proceed from there. It's happened more than once.

The thing to keep in mind is that these forums are a conversation-- one you're having with each other as well as, occasionally, with someone from the dev team (whether they're actively participating or not). If you treat them like a conversation you'd have in real life, try to listen as well as talk, instead of treating them like a personal order form or a soap box then you might have a chance of actually convincing someone to think your way.

[javierabegazo]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

When feedback is presented in a civil and intelligent manner, ofcourse they read it. If there's a post raging about "blah blah console sellout EA blows, blah blah" they don't read past the first few words.

But just because a small percentage of their customer base isn't getting a custom game tailored to them, BioWare isn't going to retract announcements and scrap all their plans to please what barely amounts to not even 10% (yes, that's us on the forums).

I disagree with the small percentage that you are alluding too.  Since DAO was released, and players had time to make their first playthroughs, the developers did start asking and getting very good responses on what we wanted to see next. The responses that I saw for the most part were respectful on all sides.   Let me try to explain what I'm getting at -- each owner of the game for those that have played all of the origins as an example. 

Six different origins with an investment of say 80 hours per each origin equals 480 hours of invested time.  It was obvious after having so much play time invested that we did want to see continuation of our wardens after having placed so much time for each character development, then we are given this Hawk guy instead is a slap in the face.  You can try to tell yourself we're just a small percentage if you wish to stick your heads in the sand to this fact.  It was obvious what the fans of DAO's wanted in a second game.  Many even said, they would be happy with an expanison to fully end their original warden to move on to DA2.  Doesn't look like this will be forthcoming either. 

It's obvious BioWare has taken the game in the direction "THEY" wanted to which in all fairness is their right it's their title along with EA, and not what their fanbase wanted and now that fanbase has be reduced to being called small percentage was very done. 

It's also obvious BioWare and EA can't take any critique of their game.  These artist types....

I understand what you're saying, but to add a few things

There's a huge difference between critique, and raging about "not getting what you want". Express your dissatisfaction as much as you like about getting DA2 instead of DAO2, but remember to do it in a civil way, and keep in mind that the DA series was NEVER planned to be a Trilogy ala Mass Effect where you import your save game containing your character and play across 3 games.

About the small percentage, I'm willing to bet that most of the posters on the DA2 board expressing dissatisfaction at the DA2 announcement (based on post content) are PC gamers, and they neglect to remember that DAO was released for 3 systems, PC XBOX and PS3.

David Gaider, the LEAD WRITER himself is online at the moment on the boards, making replies. You can't say that BioWare ignores the forum fanbase. Sure maybe they don't kowtow to them, but I really don't think they should.

"The Customer is always right" isn't always right.

[Ecael]

Davasar wrote...

You wat cognitive, and logical response?

The outcry comes from yet another feeling of betrayal

Thats basic marketing. If I as a gamer am your target audience, then why go out of the way to alienate me? Does that make sense from a bottom line stand point?

EAoware maybe will answer this question now, since it is being poster here.

You fail at a constructive response.

You just stated that not targeting the core audience doesn't make sense from a "bottom line" standpoint, yet you called them EAware at the end, as if BioWare's creative process is closely tied to EA's profits.

Truth is, they're trying with much difficulty not to alienate anyone.

[Sable Rhapsody]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

When feedback is presented in a civil and intelligent manner, ofcourse they read it. If there's a post raging about "blah blah console sellout EA blows, blah blah" they don't read past the first few words.

But just because a small percentage of their customer base isn't getting a custom game tailored to them, BioWare isn't going to retract announcements and scrap all their plans to please what barely amounts to not even 10% (yes, that's us on the forums).

I disagree with the small percentage that you are alluding too.  Since DAO was released, and players had time to make their first playthroughs, the developers did start asking and getting very good responses on what we wanted to see next. The responses that I saw for the most part were respectful on all sides.   Let me try to explain what I'm getting at -- each owner of the game for those that have played all of the origins as an example. 

Six different origins with an investment of say 80 hours per each origin equals 480 hours of invested time.  It was obvious after having so much play time invested that we did want to see continuation of our wardens after having placed so much time for each character development, then we are given this Hawk guy instead is a slap in the face.  You can try to tell yourself we're just a small percentage if you wish to stick your heads in the sand to this fact.  It was obvious what the fans of DAO's wanted in a second game.  Many even said, they would be happy with an expanison to fully end their original warden to move on to DA2.  Doesn't look like this will be forthcoming either. 

It's obvious BioWare has taken the game in the direction "THEY" wanted to which in all fairness is their right it's their title along with EA, and not what their fanbase wanted and now that fanbase has be reduced to being called small percentage was very done. 

It's also obvious BioWare and EA can't take any critique of their game.  These artist types....

Hmm.  First of all, 80 hours per origin is more than a little generous.  The fact of the matter is that after Ostagar, the influence of the Origin in the story becomes mostly cosmetic.  You have changes in dialogue if you're a mage doing the Circle quest, changes in dialogue if you're a dwarven commoner in Orzammar, but 95% of the content is completely identical.  Unless you're talking combat mechanics.  I'm not saying BioWare didn't put a lot of work into the Origins--I'm just saying that they're a clever way to increase roleplaying flexibility while having no impact whatsoever on the core content of the game.

You might be basing your assessment of negative off of the forums and the wiki, which is fine.  But more broadly, on sites like Kotaku and Escapist and the rest of the gaming community, there's decidedly less backlash going on.  Not everyone who plays BioWare games frequents these forums--the majority as a matter of fact do not, and just buy the game when it comes out and play it.  And besides, BioWare know the games industry, and its patterns of inevitable Internet backlash.  They know that they could offer each individual a platter of delicious Sten-shaped cookies, and people would accuse them of poisoning them   They're not going to waste their time with it.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 10 juillet 2010 - 09:26 .

[LPPrince]

David Gaider wrote...

_-Greywolf-_ wrote...
I think the game is too far into development to be changed now, however even if they could change things they would have to believe that the fans ideas are better than their own.

I think it'd be a rare thing for an idea to come from a single fan. That'd have to be a "lightning strike" of an idea-- sort of "oh wow, why didn't we think of that before?" I can think of perhaps two times in my career that this has happened.

Other ideas tend to develop as a consensus. More of "there seems to be a lot of people on the forums who think X would be a good idea" followed by "maybe we could do something like that? What do you think?" and we proceed from there. It's happened more than once.

The thing to keep in mind is that these forums are a conversation-- one you're having with each other as well as, occasionally, with someone from the dev team (whether they're actively participating or not). If you treat them like a conversation you'd have in real life, try to listen as well as talk, instead of treating them like a personal order form or a soap box then you might have a chance of actually convincing someone to think your way.

Its like a debate, except its supposed to be a healthy one.

Usually it devolves into people screaming insults or sarcastic remarks. lol

[SirOccam]

/keeps it conversational

So...how about all those NPCs in Awakening and Leliana's Song pronouncing "apostate" as "APP-uh-state" instead of "uh-POS-tate" like in Origins? Pretty crazy, huh? What's your take on it?