241 réponses à ce sujet

[Davasar]

Ecael wrote...

Davasar wrote...

You wat cognitive, and logical response?

The outcry comes from yet another feeling of betrayal

Thats basic marketing. If I as a gamer am your target audience, then why go out of the way to alienate me? Does that make sense from a bottom line stand point?

EAoware maybe will answer this question now, since it is being poster here.

You fail at a constructive response.

You just stated that not targeting the core audience doesn't make sense from a "bottom line" standpoint, yet you called them EAware at the end, as if BioWare's creative process is closely tied to EA's profits.

Truth is, they're trying with much difficulty not to alienate anyone.

You are just being argumentative.  But that is what you admitted your purpose is while on these forums in a previous post in another thread.

And if they didnt want to alienate people, they would have kept the same features of the previous game, and added to and improved those features.

Done.

Modifié par Davasar, 10 juillet 2010 - 09:27 .

[LPPrince]

Ecael wrote...

Davasar wrote...

You wat cognitive, and logical response?

The outcry comes from yet another feeling of betrayal

Thats basic marketing. If I as a gamer am your target audience, then why go out of the way to alienate me? Does that make sense from a bottom line stand point?

EAoware maybe will answer this question now, since it is being poster here.

You fail at a constructive response.

You just stated that not targeting the core audience doesn't make sense from a "bottom line" standpoint, yet you called them EAware at the end, as if BioWare's creative process is closely tied to EA's profits.

Truth is, they're trying with much difficulty not to alienate anyone.

E for the win AGAIN. But its going to happen regardless. Not everyone's going to be happy.

It sucks to be those people that will never be satisfied.

[Ecael]

David Gaider wrote...

Other ideas tend to develop as a consensus. More of "there seems to be a lot of people on the forums who think X would be a good idea" followed by "maybe we could do something like that? What do you think?" and we proceed from there. It's happened more than once.

I... don't suppose you keep in contact with the Mass Effect team at Edmonton?



Morality & Squad Banter in ME3: Building Consensus (1)
Inventory & Looting in ME3: Building Consensus (2)

[Onyx Jaguar]

The Consumer is always right



However Video Games put a wrench in this because they are partly a creative medium and partly a product.



So the Consumer is always right only applies partially, but it still applies

[LPPrince]

Davasar wrote...

And if they didnt want to alienate people, they would have kept the same features of the previous game, and added to and improved those features.

If they did that, how on Earth would they draw in a new demographic? They wouldn't.

They'd make their current demographic happier, sure, but there really wouldn't be anything to draw in others.

[Khayness]

Just let Victor Wachter set up developer queston topics like in the DA:O threads.

If the people stick with the question sheet, it could go well.

[Davasar]

LPPrince wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Davasar wrote...

You wat cognitive, and logical response?

The outcry comes from yet another feeling of betrayal

Thats basic marketing. If I as a gamer am your target audience, then why go out of the way to alienate me? Does that make sense from a bottom line stand point?

EAoware maybe will answer this question now, since it is being poster here.

You fail at a constructive response.

You just stated that not targeting the core audience doesn't make sense from a "bottom line" standpoint, yet you called them EAware at the end, as if BioWare's creative process is closely tied to EA's profits.

Truth is, they're trying with much difficulty not to alienate anyone.

E for the win AGAIN. But its going to happen regardless. Not everyone's going to be happy.

It sucks to be those people that will never be satisfied.

AGAIN

The features that were SUCCESSFUL, commercially and critiically so,  improve and add to those things and you keep your core audience, and get more.

It's really very simple.  So not doing that naturally made people scratch their head and wonder why.

[Ecael]

Davasar wrote...

You are just being argumentative.  But that is what you admitted your purpose is while on these forums in a previous post in another thread.

And if they didnt want to alienate people, they would have kept the same features of the previous game, and added to and improved those features.

Done.

Characters? Still there.
Customization? Still there.
Dialogue? Even more.

Also, do you really think by the time Dragon Age 2 is released, it will not be an RPG, or do you think people are just exaggerating on this forum?

Please say the latter.

[Wowlock]

LPPrince wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

_-Greywolf-_ wrote...
I think the game is too far into development to be changed now, however even if they could change things they would have to believe that the fans ideas are better than their own.

I think it'd be a rare thing for an idea to come from a single fan. That'd have to be a "lightning strike" of an idea-- sort of "oh wow, why didn't we think of that before?" I can think of perhaps two times in my career that this has happened.

Other ideas tend to develop as a consensus. More of "there seems to be a lot of people on the forums who think X would be a good idea" followed by "maybe we could do something like that? What do you think?" and we proceed from there. It's happened more than once.

The thing to keep in mind is that these forums are a conversation-- one you're having with each other as well as, occasionally, with someone from the dev team (whether they're actively participating or not). If you treat them like a conversation you'd have in real life, try to listen as well as talk, instead of treating them like a personal order form or a soap box then you might have a chance of actually convincing someone to think your way.

Its like a debate, except its supposed to be a healthy one.

Usually it devolves into people screaming insults or sarcastic remarks. lol

That is internet for you...

Oh wait ....we aren't talking about Politics right ? my bad , keep going .

[javierabegazo]

Ecael wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Other ideas tend to develop as a consensus. More of "there seems to be a lot of people on the forums who think X would be a good idea" followed by "maybe we could do something like that? What do you think?" and we proceed from there. It's happened more than once.

I... don't suppose you keep in contact with the Mass Effect team at Edmonton?



Morality & Squad Banter in ME3: Building Consensus (1)
Inventory & Looting in ME3: Building Consensus (2)

If you are Gaider, I've love it if you could pass those threads onto them, They're really good

[Davasar]

LPPrince wrote...

Davasar wrote...

And if they didnt want to alienate people, they would have kept the same features of the previous game, and added to and improved those features.

If they did that, how on Earth would they draw in a new demographic? They wouldn't.

They'd make their current demographic happier, sure, but there really wouldn't be anything to draw in others.

See bold text, thats how.  Are you being purposefully obtuse?

[Onyx Jaguar]

The features that were SUCCESSFUL, commercially and critiically so, improve and add to those things and you keep your core audience, and get more.

I heard many reviewers and game journalists call the old school dialogue system a step back from Mass Effect

[Tsuga C]

javierabegazo wrote...
If you are Gaider...

There can be only one. 

[LPPrince]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

The features that were SUCCESSFUL, commercially and critiically so, improve and add to those things and you keep your core audience, and get more.

I heard many reviewers and game journalists call the old school dialogue system a step back from Mass Effect

Same here.

It was good for nostalgia's sake, but it didn't attract a ton of modern day fans because they aren't used to the style of old school RPG's.

If Bioware wants to make a bigger profit, they need to cater a bit to the new audience.

[Khayness]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I heard many reviewers and game journalists call the old school dialogue system a step back from Mass Effect

And that's why I haven't ever bought a game based on a review.

[LPPrince]

Tsuga C wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...
If you are Gaider...

There can be only one. 

Damn it. Javi should've but a comma or question mark after Gaider. lol

[Gill Kaiser]

David Gaider wrote...

_-Greywolf-_ wrote...
I think the game is too far into development to be changed now, however even if they could change things they would have to believe that the fans ideas are better than their own.

I think it'd be a rare thing for an idea to come from a single fan. That'd have to be a "lightning strike" of an idea-- sort of "oh wow, why didn't we think of that before?" I can think of perhaps two times in my career that this has happened.

Intriguing...
What kind of ideas were they?

[JeanLuc761]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

The Consumer is always right

However Video Games put a wrench in this because they are partly a creative medium and partly a product.

So the Consumer is always right only applies partially, but it still applies

The consumer is most assuredly not always right.  Ask 10 people their opinion on a video game and you'll get 10 different answers.  The creator of the product is the one with the vision in mind, the fans are (ideally) just here to appreciate the game and offer some potential ideas for future titles. 

[Davasar]

Ecael wrote...

Davasar wrote...

You are just being argumentative.  But that is what you admitted your purpose is while on these forums in a previous post in another thread.

And if they didnt want to alienate people, they would have kept the same features of the previous game, and added to and improved those features.

Done.

Characters? Still there.
Customization? Still there.
Dialogue? Even more.

Also, do you really think by the time Dragon Age 2 is released, it will not be an RPG, or do you think people are just exaggerating on this forum?

Please say the latter.

The fears are that it will be more an action game then an RPG.  The character choice has been limited from being someone you create, to someone they created.

It's not your character.

[David Gaider]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
You might be basing your assessment of negative off of the forums and the wiki, which is fine.  But more broadly, on sites like Kotaku and Escapist and the rest of the gaming community, there's decidedly less backlash going on.  Not everyone who plays BioWare games frequents these forums--the majority as a matter of fact do not, and just buy the game when it comes out and play it.

This is a fair assessment. The number of people that would play a game and then head to that game's online forums is decidedly small-- never mind the people that would thereafter continue to hang out on those forums months and months after the game's release. Certainly they have their opinions and the things that they want, but that should come with the realization that these are the game's most committed fans.

Is that a bad thing? Of course not. Who doesn't want fans? Besides the idea that they might be evangelists, they're also an excellent source of feedback. But I call it the "fishbowl effect" when people come here and start to get the perception that the fans here are all there is, that everyone feels the same way they do despite the fact that millions of people bought the game and they all couldn't possibly be here (or even a small percentage of them). That's simply the way it is.

And besides, BioWare know the games industry, and its patterns of inevitable Internet backlash.

"Backlash" is a polite way of saying "wankage".

It happens. People are passionate about the game; that's always a good thing. People talking about things they're passionate about can never be completely wrong-- and at the end of the day it'll be up to them to decide whether or not they buy into what we're selling (literally or otherwise). That's their power.

[javierabegazo]

LPPrince wrote...


Same here.

It was good for nostalgia's sake, but it didn't attract a ton of modern day fans because they aren't used to the style of old school RPG's.

If Bioware wants to make a bigger profit, they need to cater a bit to the new audience.

Even apart from profit, sometimes the creator simply wants to change the formula. There are many pitfalls to the old style as well, such as the total lack of any body language

[LPPrince]

Davasar wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Davasar wrote...

And if they didnt want to alienate people, they would have kept the same features of the previous game, and added to and improved those features.

If they did that, how on Earth would they draw in a new demographic? They wouldn't.

They'd make their current demographic happier, sure, but there really wouldn't be anything to draw in others.

See bold text, thats how.  Are you being purposefully obtuse?

Nope. I'm being honest. Being general here, modern day fans aren't huge on tactical gameplay and basically everything that made DAO what it was.

Improving them isn't going to change people's opinions. Some, sure, but not all, and definitely not the majority.

So they need to cater to the new audience as well as keeping some of what made the older demographic happy.

[Onyx Jaguar]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

The Consumer is always right

However Video Games put a wrench in this because they are partly a creative medium and partly a product.

So the Consumer is always right only applies partially, but it still applies

The consumer is most assuredly not always right.  Ask 10 people their opinion on a video game and you'll get 10 different answers.  The creator of the product is the one with the vision in mind, the fans are (ideally) just here to appreciate the game and offer some potential ideas for future titles. 

A video game is still part product, look at this way.

The Consumer is Always right doesn't really apply to storyline or even design decisions and gameplay mechancis

it applies to game stability and whether or not it works depending on what it has described should work

I explain this any further the thread will derail

[JeanLuc761]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

The Consumer is always right

However Video Games put a wrench in this because they are partly a creative medium and partly a product.

So the Consumer is always right only applies partially, but it still applies

The consumer is most assuredly not always right.  Ask 10 people their opinion on a video game and you'll get 10 different answers.  The creator of the product is the one with the vision in mind, the fans are (ideally) just here to appreciate the game and offer some potential ideas for future titles. 

A video game is still part product, look at this way.

The Consumer is Always right doesn't really apply to storyline or even design decisions and gameplay mechancis

it applies to game stability and whether or not it works depending on what it has described should work

I explain this any further the thread will derail

Oh, I see what you were getting at.  My bad, misunderstood.

[LPPrince]

David Gaider wrote...
"Backlash" is a polite way of saying "wankage".

Wankage.

Rofl.

By Gaider's definition, "Mike Hawke must face the wankage of the people he wrongs."

ROFL.