241 réponses à ce sujet

[kraidy1117]

thenemesis77 wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

NvVanity wrote...

OriginsIsBest wrote...

No,they wont change anything now.Even though most of us hate the idea of Dragon age 2 already.

You mean a small vocal minority?

It is excatly that. A vocal minority. Take your name for example "OriginsIsBest". You went out of your way to make an entirely new account JUST so you could complain.

 See its this right here,  no we made the account for DAO and the DLC, so don't take that cheap road. You mods and BIoWare are very fast to get mad when not all the masses agree with you and you know that.

You can't pleese everyone. For Bioware to succed they need to pleese the mass's, not the minority.The Bioware fanbase is unpleaseable, no matter what Bioware does, there will always be the vocal minority that hates it. That's life and theres nothing that can fix it.

[LadyVaJedi]

ElvaliaRavenHart I agree with you whole heartily. You get a cookie for what you said. I am just hoping at some point we can continue with our beloved Warderns.

[Ecael]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Mint choc chip is the best flavour, you heathens.

You're obviously being paid by Ben & Jerry's to give a good review on Mint Chocolate Chip flavoring.

Don't listen to him, for I am a true fan of ice cream.

And cheesecake.

[kraidy1117]

AllThatJazz wrote...

Plus, the marketing campaign for DA:O was very exciting, some of the trailers were just outrageously good. Also, ME2 is a sequel. And part 2 of 3. There will always be people who won't start at part two of a trilogy. Jeez, I'm STILL waiting for the Wheel of Time to finish.

Compared to ME2 marketing? ME2 had one of the best marketing campaigns in awhile. DAO was not that marketed at all, yes we got a epic CGI trailer ad cool TV commericals, regular updates and so on, but ME2 got the same thing but it was better.

[thenemesis77]

javierabegazo wrote...

element eater wrote...


how do you decide whats constructive?

It doesn't even necessarily HAVE to be constructive. but DOES need to be respectful. This is THEIR forums, that they maintain for the sole purpose of fan feedback. Construct your post as if you're talking to a respected teacher at a college you go to, one who you're NOT on a first name basis with. State your ideas/concerns/reasons in a coherent manner, minus PC/Console/Developer/Publisher bias (to a reasonable extent) and you're likely to get a response. ESPECIALLY from David Gaider. He takes the time to write an astonishing amount of responses, and I'd even say that the DA Devs are more active on the forums than the ME Devs, so really, take what you have, and make the best of it.

ITs this kind of talk right here, they say it theirs and yea it is, but if you dont put what people want on the table you dont have what is yours, it works both ways and for whatever reason you guys just hate for people to even say your not doing what they would like to see........your like bhlah on that, sorry but we buy your games, it pays even  your  bills and so dont get in the face of the ones that help make the games what they are and PAYS for them. 

[SirOccam]

I really liked the DAO marketing. I think it's the only video game to date I actually learned and became excited about through a TV commercial.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I am most disappointing with the singular Origin so to speak. Not that VA for main character, however that would impacted that decision.



Also would a developer please make a modern day game, like Eye of the Beholder, or Icewind Dale where you could create your entire party with modern day character making technology.

[kraidy1117]

LadyVaJedi wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart I agree with you whole heartily. You get a cookie for what you said. I am just hoping at some point we can continue with our beloved Warderns.

Then you where hoping in bane. Bioware never said DAO was a trilgoy or that future sequals we could continue our warden, Bioware just said there was more stories to be told and they where not lying. DA2 story sounds alot more intresting then what we got with DAO. DAO story was not that good, it was too clithe, borining and far from orginal.

[SnakeHelah]

You guys are crazy. "OH NO BIOWARE NOT LISTEN TO WHAT I SAY THAT MUST BE IN GAME NOW EVERYONE IS MAD"
It isn't really like that, I'm sure BW still listen's to their fans, it's just the way you look at it. I mean if you think that "listening to fans" is doing everything they "demand" then no, however reflecting upon ideas and constructive criticisms from various posts that a lot of people support / disapprove of and reconsidering something in the game is. I'm sure Gaider mentioned somewhere how they did that more than once.

Modifié par SnakeHelah, 10 juillet 2010 - 09:57 .

[Tsuga C]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...
I disagree, as technology evolves so should the medium.  Many of the old games lack VO for characters primarily because of technological limitations.

The whole point to a proper RPG is roleplaying, something not easily done when guessing at a conversation wheel that may or may not give you the response you think you're getting and limited to a paltry 3 options.

If the technology isn't up to snuff, then it's not serving its purpose.

[Ecael]

thenemesis77 wrote...

ITs this kind of talk right here, they say it theirs and yea it is, but if you dont put what people want on the table you dont have what is yours, it works both ways and for whatever reason you guys just hate for people to even say your not doing what they would like to see........your like bhlah on that, sorry but we buy your games, it pays even  your  bills and so dont get in the face of the ones that help make the games what they are and PAYS for them.

http://www.merriam-w...ary/entitlement

Modifié par Ecael, 10 juillet 2010 - 09:57 .

[Herr Uhl]

Tsuga C wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...
I disagree, as technology evolves so should the medium.  Many of the old games lack VO for characters primarily because of technological limitations.

The whole point to a proper RPG is roleplaying, something not easily done when guessing at a conversation wheel that may or may not give you the response you think you're getting and limited to a paltry 3 options.

If the technology isn't up to snuff, then it's not serving its purpose.

*points to obligatory Virtual Boy comparison*

[kraidy1117]

SirOccam wrote...

I really liked the DAO marketing. I think it's the only video game to date I actually learned and became excited about through a TV commercial.

The thing with the TV commericial is Bioware and eA kinda lied to the genral public. Lets look at the ME2 commerical. That was all in-game footage and I enjoyed it more because it is what I will be expecvting. With DAO, not so much. Now I can understand why EA and bioware did it that way because it would be hard to have a commrical with in-game fottage of DAO because of how it is, plus we sadly live in a generation where there is such things as grahpic who*es. It's the sad bitter truth.

[Estel78]

Davasar wrote...

DAO sold better then Mass Effect 2 which is geared toward the very audience you are saying needs to be targeted, twice as many sales in fact.

They arent making the demographic happy at all judging from the complaints.  They failed at basic marketing.  Video games as a rule have gained more of a fanbase when they use the recipe for success I described. 

Thats not even my opinion, thats fact.

Changing basic findamentals that made the game successful is a foolish move. 

You have sales data? Yeah, i know DAO is supposedly their most successful title but twice as successful as ME? Anyway, one has to take into account that it was released on twice the amount of platforms.

As for not making their demographic happy, how do you know? Those complaining here on the forums are not even a percent of their playerbase. They are not stupid, they have means to track feedback that goes beyond this forum and involves a much larger pool of users.

Fact is that a lot of the major publications expressed the sentiment that DAO's dialog system for instance was a step back from ME, i'd imagine quite a few gamers agrees with that, i'm one of them, even though i understand why it was the way it was (many races with different VO would blow their budget).

[javierabegazo]

thenemesis77 wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

element eater wrote...


how do you decide whats constructive?

It doesn't even necessarily HAVE to be constructive. but DOES need to be respectful. This is THEIR forums, that they maintain for the sole purpose of fan feedback. Construct your post as if you're talking to a respected teacher at a college you go to, one who you're NOT on a first name basis with. State your ideas/concerns/reasons in a coherent manner, minus PC/Console/Developer/Publisher bias (to a reasonable extent) and you're likely to get a response. ESPECIALLY from David Gaider. He takes the time to write an astonishing amount of responses, and I'd even say that the DA Devs are more active on the forums than the ME Devs, so really, take what you have, and make the best of it.

ITs this kind of talk right here, they say it theirs and yea it is, but if you dont put what people want on the table you dont have what is yours, it works both ways and for whatever reason you guys just hate for people to even say your not doing what they would like to see........your like bhlah on that, sorry but we buy your games, it pays even  your  bills and so dont get in the face of the ones that help make the games what they are and PAYS for them. 

But you assume that the vocal forum base (Not EVEN the unvocal forum base) represents anywhere close to a majority of people who "pays BioWare to make games". It's just simply not true.  There are thousands of posters who simply read, but never post, or only post so little. If you were to tally up all the different accounts who posted unsatisfaction about DA2's miniscule release of info, I'll be dead surprised if you could make it half way to 1000, which is still NOTHING in terms of over all customers.

[kraidy1117]

Estel78 wrote...

Davasar wrote...

DAO sold better then Mass Effect 2 which is geared toward the very audience you are saying needs to be targeted, twice as many sales in fact.

They arent making the demographic happy at all judging from the complaints.  They failed at basic marketing.  Video games as a rule have gained more of a fanbase when they use the recipe for success I described. 

Thats not even my opinion, thats fact.

Changing basic findamentals that made the game successful is a foolish move. 

You have sales data? Yeah, i know DAO is supposedly their most successful title but twice as successful as ME? Anyway, one has to take into account that it was released on twice the amount of platforms.

As for not making their demographic happy, how do you know? Those complaining here on the forums are not even a percent of their playerbase. They are not stupid, they have means to track feedback that goes beyond this forum and involves a much larger pool of users.

Fact is that a lot of the major publications expressed the sentiment that DAO's dialog system for instance was a step back from ME, i'd imagine quite a few gamers agrees with that, i'm one of them, even though i understand why it was the way it was (many races with different VO would blow their budget).

He does not. ME2 is selling better then DAO and ME, while there overall sales are better then ME2, you have to look where ME2 was released.  Sales prove that ME2 is selling like mad.

[thenemesis77]

You know what, cool, thats great, sorry I said a word, they do it all as it should be.

[Onyx Jaguar]

The changes tend to be based on something you know



this isn't Metal Gear'ing the series

[Ecael]

thenemesis77 wrote...

You know what, cool, thats great, sorry I said a word, they do it all as it should be.

http://www.merriam-w...ionary/humility

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

javierabegazo wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

When feedback is presented in a civil and intelligent manner, ofcourse they read it. If there's a post raging about "blah blah console sellout EA blows, blah blah" they don't read past the first few words.

But just because a small percentage of their customer base isn't getting a custom game tailored to them, BioWare isn't going to retract announcements and scrap all their plans to please what barely amounts to not even 10% (yes, that's us on the forums).

I disagree with the small percentage that you are alluding too.  Since DAO was released, and players had time to make their first playthroughs, the developers did start asking and getting very good responses on what we wanted to see next. The responses that I saw for the most part were respectful on all sides.   Let me try to explain what I'm getting at -- each owner of the game for those that have played all of the origins as an example. 

Six different origins with an investment of say 80 hours per each origin equals 480 hours of invested time.  It was obvious after having so much play time invested that we did want to see continuation of our wardens after having placed so much time for each character development, then we are given this Hawk guy instead is a slap in the face.  You can try to tell yourself we're just a small percentage if you wish to stick your heads in the sand to this fact.  It was obvious what the fans of DAO's wanted in a second game.  Many even said, they would be happy with an expanison to fully end their original warden to move on to DA2.  Doesn't look like this will be forthcoming either. 

It's obvious BioWare has taken the game in the direction "THEY" wanted to which in all fairness is their right it's their title along with EA, and not what their fanbase wanted and now that fanbase has be reduced to being called small percentage was very done. 

It's also obvious BioWare and EA can't take any critique of their game.  These artist types....

I understand what you're saying, but to add a few things

There's a huge difference between critique, and raging about "not getting what you want". Express your dissatisfaction as much as you like about getting DA2 instead of DAO2, but remember to do it in a civil way, and keep in mind that the DA series was NEVER planned to be a Trilogy ala Mass Effect where you import your save game containing your character and play across 3 games.

About the small percentage, I'm willing to bet that most of the posters on the DA2 board expressing dissatisfaction at the DA2 announcement (based on post content) are PC gamers, and they neglect to remember that DAO was released for 3 systems, PC XBOX and PS3.

David Gaider, the LEAD WRITER himself is online at the moment on the boards, making replies. You can't say that BioWare ignores the forum fanbase. Sure maybe they don't kowtow to them, but I really don't think they should.

"The Customer is always right" isn't always right.

Since I own two copies of this game one for the PC version and one for the PS3 gives me an advantage on commenting.  Since I'm sure you didn't know that I own two copies is beside the point.  From the polls I've seen in and outside of the bioware community it was obvious to me the majority did want a continuation of their warden from the first game.  Awakenings didn't fully do this and left you hanging as to what happened with your character. 

I also think not making Dragon Age a series is a very hugh mistake, this is just my humble consumer opinion rearing my ugly head.  "The Customer is always right isn't always right"  is exactly why people are unhappy.   Then please spare us with any future: what do you want to see in the Sequel posts and polls started by developers and writers.  It's obvious what we want doesn't count and when we make our wishes known we are now being reduced to being placed in the small percentage column.  I see that small percentage column having a fair amount of people in it.  

As for developers and writer's like Mr. Gaider, I'm very happy when they respond.  Makes my day actually.   This isn't me raging, I'd get banned if I really, really raged.  Once again it comes back to the fact this company and it's employees can't take the critique.  Once again, my humble consumer opinion.

[AllThatJazz]

Personal pref was for DA marketing, even though ME2 marketing was more accurate. Still think the sequel thing had some bearing. I wouldn't have bought ME2 had I not already played ME1. I've no doubt that ME2 will eventually outsell DA:O because the action elements have more mainstream appeal, but I'd bet there are still people holding out until they buy/finish ME1. And others who won't buy because they disliked ME1, despite the gameplay being very different.

[thenemesis77]

[quote]javierabegazo wrote...

[quote]thenemesis77 wrote...

[quote]javierabegazo wrote...

[quote]element eater wrote...


how do you decide whats constructive?[/quote]



ITs this kind of talk right here, they say it theirs and yea it is, but if you dont put what people want on the table you dont have what is yours, it works both ways and for whatever reason you guys just hate for people to even say your not doing what they would like to see........your like bhlah on that, sorry but we buy your games, it pays even  your  bills and so dont get in the face of the ones that help make the games what they are and PAYS for them. 
[/quote]
But you assume that the vocal forum base (Not EVEN the unvocal forum base) represents anywhere close to a majority of people who "pays BioWare to make games". It's just simply not true.  There are thousands of posters who simply read, but never post, or only post so little. If you were to tally up all the different accounts who posted unsatisfaction about DA2's miniscule release of info, I'll be dead surprised if you could make it half way to 1000, which is still NOTHING in terms of over all customers.

[/quote]


It doesn't even necessarily HAVE to be constructive. but DOES need to be respectful. This is THEIR forums, that they maintain for the sole purpose of fan feedback. Construct your post as if you're talking to a respected teacher at a college you go to, one who you're NOT on a first name basis with. State your ideas/concerns/reasons in a coherent manner, minus PC/Console/Developer/Publisher bias (to a reasonable extent) and you're likely to get a response. ESPECIALLY from David Gaider. He takes the time to write an astonishing amount of responses, and I'd even say that the DA Devs are more active on the forums than the ME Devs, so really, take what you have, and make the best of it.



I have to say your dead right, all you have to to is wait for them 12 to 15 years olds that dont read up on it and get their moms to buy the game, if that is the target, then your right and you don't have to make a great game, as DAO was, just make a new central character that they can see themselfs as and  wing it from there, if you make it like ME then thats ok, they won't care and it makes it easy on David to come up with a easy story and the developers can just take the ME engine and tweek it to a DA setting, quick and easy, fast cash in our new age of dumbed down people that only see  the tree not the forest.

Modifié par thenemesis77, 10 juillet 2010 - 10:12 .

[L33TDAWG]

I like to picture some employees as the ones who get on and read of what some say. I like bioware, they blow my mind with their games, but some ideas I don't agree with. I think of the forum as a place to send feed back and discuss games, a place that they can look on and see most of their hardcore fans who have been playing their games since they started, they listen I bet though they want to try new things that they have had much success in.

[AlanC9]

javierabegazo wrote...

But you assume that the vocal forum base (Not EVEN the unvocal forum base) represents anywhere close to a majority of people who "pays BioWare to make games". It's just simply not true.  There are thousands of posters who simply read, but never post, or only post so little. If you were to tally up all the different accounts who posted unsatisfaction about DA2's miniscule release of info, I'll be dead surprised if you could make it half way to 1000, which is still NOTHING in terms of over all customers.

No, but it's large enough to give you a reasonable sample. The problem isn't the small number, it's that forum posters are self-selected, and so are manifestly different from the general DA fan population.

The question, of course, is how are they different.

[javierabegazo]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

  It's obvious what we want doesn't count and when we make our wishes known we are now being reduced to being placed in the small percentage column.  I see that small percentage column having a fair amount of people in it.  

It's not even like that. Sometimes someone doesn't want to tell the story you WANT them to tell. Perhaps they've already had a loose outline of HOW they wanted to tell the story of Thedas during the Dragon Age.

Just because a suggestion made by a huge number of users wasn't implemented doesn't mean it "didn't count" but rather that either it was unfeasable, or other plans were already drawn up, and they decided to do it as planned.