241 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...
  I see that small percentage column having a fair amount of people in it.  

If the game sold millions, then of course a small percentage would still be thousands of people.

[kraidy1117]

AllThatJazz wrote...

Personal pref was for DA marketing, even though ME2 marketing was more accurate. Still think the sequel thing had some bearing. I wouldn't have bought ME2 had I not already played ME1. I've no doubt that ME2 will eventually outsell DA:O because the action elements have more mainstream appeal, but I'd bet there are still people holding out until they buy/finish ME1. And others who won't buy because they disliked ME1, despite the gameplay being very different.

Bingo. Not everyone who got ME loved it. I know some people who where disappinted with Bioware about ME and refuse to buy ME2.

[LPPrince]

javierabegazo wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

  It's obvious what we want doesn't count and when we make our wishes known we are now being reduced to being placed in the small percentage column.  I see that small percentage column having a fair amount of people in it.  

It's not even like that. Sometimes someone doesn't want to tell the story you WANT them to tell. Perhaps they've already had a loose outline of HOW they wanted to tell the story of Thedas during the Dragon Age.

Just because a suggestion made by a huge number of users wasn't implemented doesn't mean it "didn't count" but rather that either it was unfeasable, or other plans were already drawn up, and they decided to do it as planned.

In the end, its Bioware's product. They get to do what they want with it. We're the ones that consume their products and give them the money to keep doing what they do.

Hell, I just ate my Mass Effect disk the other day.

[LPPrince]

AlanC9 wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...
  I see that small percentage column having a fair amount of people in it.  

If the game sold millions, then of course a small percentage would still be thousands of people.

Or hundreds, or dozens, or a couple of people.

Small isn't definite.

[thenemesis77]

I have to say your dead right, all you have to to is wait for them 12 to 15 years olds that dont read up on it and get their moms to buy the game, if that is the target, then your right and you don't have to make a great game, as DAO was, just make a new central character that they can see themselfs as and wing it from there, if you make it like ME then thats ok, they won't care and it makes it easy on David to come up with a easy story and the developers can just take the ME engine and tweek it to a DA setting, quick and easy, fast cash in our new age of dumbed down people that only see the tree not the forest

Modifié par thenemesis77, 10 juillet 2010 - 10:15 .

[JeanLuc761]

thenemesis77 wrote...


I have to say your dead right, all you have to to is wait for them 12 to 15 years olds that dont read up on it and get their moms to buy the game, if that is the target, then your right and you don't have to make a great game, as DAO was, just make a new central character that they can see themselfs as and wing it from there, if you make it like ME then thats ok, they won't care and it makes it easy on David to come up with a easy story and the developers can just take the ME engine and tweek it to a DA setting, quick and easy, fast cash in our new age of dumbed down people that only see the tree not the forest

I fail to see how any of the changes they've mentioned (in bullet points no less) dumb down the game in any way.  "Different" is not the equivalent to "dumbed down."

[LPPrince]

thenemesis77 wrote...

David to come up with a easy story and the developers can just take the ME engine and tweek it to a DA setting, quick and easy, fast cash in our new age of dumbed down people that only see the tree not the forest

So people who prefer the newer system are idiots? Is that what you're saying?

[Sable Rhapsody]

thenemesis77 wrote...


I have to say your dead right, all you have to to is wait for them 12 to 15 years olds that dont read up on it and get their moms to buy the game, if that is the target, then your right and you don't have to make a great game, as DAO was, just make a new central character that they can see themselfs as and wing it from there, if you make it like ME then thats ok, they won't care and it makes it easy on David to come up with a easy story and the developers can just take the ME engine and tweek it to a DA setting, quick and easy, fast cash in our new age of dumbed down people that only see the tree not the forest

Punctuation is nice.  We are not ZP here.

EDIT: LPP beat me to the punch 

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 10 juillet 2010 - 10:21 .

[AlexXIV]

kraidy1117 wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...

Personal pref was for DA marketing, even though ME2 marketing was more accurate. Still think the sequel thing had some bearing. I wouldn't have bought ME2 had I not already played ME1. I've no doubt that ME2 will eventually outsell DA:O because the action elements have more mainstream appeal, but I'd bet there are still people holding out until they buy/finish ME1. And others who won't buy because they disliked ME1, despite the gameplay being very different.

Bingo. Not everyone who got ME loved it. I know some people who where disappinted with Bioware about ME and refuse to buy ME2.

Well but I still would find it reasonable that if my first product is an unexpected success, I don't change too many things for the follow-up. If the follow-up has lower sales you can look for problems. If you keep changing around things without any feedback then how could you possibly know that you are doing it right?

What can I say I am always saying the same thing. I am disappointed my warden's story ends so soon. As I was disappointed of DA:A because I could only keep the one party member I found disgusting, Oghren. Not to mention what they did to Mhairi ... I'd given them the two dwarves in exchange.

[AlanC9]

People typically don't use "small percentage" to refer to .00001%. Evalia, feel free to correct me if that's what you were doing.

[javierabegazo]

AlexXIV wrote...


Well but I still would find it reasonable that if my first product is an unexpected success, I don't change too many things for the follow-up. If the follow-up has lower sales you can look for problems. If you keep changing around things without any feedback then how could you possibly know that you are doing it right?

What can I say I am always saying the same thing. I am disappointed my warden's story ends so soon. As I was disappointed of DA:A because I could only keep the one party member I found disgusting, Oghren. Not to mention what they did to Mhairi ... I'd given them the two dwarves in exchange.

The way I see it is this:
It would be a real cop-out if BioWare, because of all the Warden love, were to scrap their plans of how they wanted to tell the story of Thedas and instead JUST tell it through the eyes of a Grey Warden, reskinning DAO into a new game with slightly updated features be it inventory, approval system, what have you

[Estel78]

thenemesis77 wrote...

I have to say your dead right, all you have to to is wait for them 12 to 15 years olds that dont read up on it and get their moms to buy the game, if that is the target, then your right and you don't have to make a great game, as DAO was, just make a new central character that they can see themselfs as and  wing it from there, if you make it like ME then thats ok, they won't care and it makes it easy on David to come up with a easy story and the developers can just take the ME engine and tweek it to a DA setting, quick and easy, fast cash in our new age of dumbed down people that only see  the tree not the forest.

Gosh i hate elitists that think they are better than the rest. Most of them are PC gamers it seems.

For the record, i'm over 30 and have played all the old classics such as BG, Planescape, Fallout etc.

[Sable Rhapsody]

javierabegazo wrote...
The way I see it is this:
It would be a real cop-out if BioWare, because of all the Warden love, were to scrap their plans of how they wanted to tell the story of Thedas and instead JUST tell it through the eyes of a Grey Warden, reskinning DAO into a new game with slightly updated features be it inventory, approval system, what have you

Javi, I don't know if this was purposeful, but you just gave me flashbacks of exactly how NBC ruined Heroes 

I'm going to go eat some ice cream now to make myself feel better.

[dragon_83]

Bioware won't change anything in the game (except some minor elements), whatever you wright in the forums, in whatever tone. Even if it is constructive criticism. Especially not a main gameplay element, like the predetermined hero character.

"But just because a small percentage of their customer base isn't getting a custom game tailored to them, BioWare isn't going to retract announcements and scrap all their plans to please what barely amounts to not even 10% (yes, that's us on the forums)."

This is sad, but true. I know that we are a minority among Bioware fans, but we on the forums are the ones who give voice to our concerns, we tell you what we like and what we don't like. Other fans, who don't even come here won't tell you whether they like your ideas or not. They might as well hate the Hawke character as well. They just don't come here.

Modifié par dragon_83, 10 juillet 2010 - 10:35 .

[Estel78]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

I fail to see how any of the changes they've mentioned (in bullet points no less) dumb down the game in any way.  "Different" is not the equivalent to "dumbed down."

exactly

[javierabegazo]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...
The way I see it is this:
It would be a real cop-out if BioWare, because of all the Warden love, were to scrap their plans of how they wanted to tell the story of Thedas and instead JUST tell it through the eyes of a Grey Warden, reskinning DAO into a new game with slightly updated features be it inventory, approval system, what have you

Javi, I don't know if this was purposeful, but you just gave me flashbacks of exactly how NBC ruined Heroes 

I'm going to go eat some ice cream now to make myself feel better.

Lol, I'm sorry. It was purposeful and I feel a little guilty for not obscuring it more

[AllThatJazz]

That's assuming a lot! That it won't be a great game because it isn't exactly the same as Origins? So you have a Grey Warden as hero/ine. Then, of course, you have to have a Blight, cos otherwise a Grey Warden really isn't the ideal hero. Then you have to have a cast of companions - which includes all the people everyone really liked from the last game. Everyone except Oghren, then. I liked Oghren, though, and you need a dwarf, so he's in too. What do we have? Dragon Age Origins. I've already PLAYED Origins!



I'm not a teenager, or anyone with concentration span or IQ issues. I just think that I've read a lot of crap books and played a lot of crap games and watched a lot of crap movies and tv shows in my many years. There is nothing more mind-numbing than the feeling of repeating the same experience over and over and over again. I've also experienced a lot of great media, and that stuff has tended to be where someone has tried something a bit different. DA2 may fail, who knows? But I refuse to condemn Bioware's writing and production staff for having the guts to try something that isn't rinse and repeat of DA1. Yes, even if it borrows some elements from another game. And yes, even if that first game has a solid fan base that liked its style (including myself). Ambition is something sadly lacking in the creative industries today.



Sorry, long winded again!

[javierabegazo]

dragon_83 wrote...

"But just because a small percentage of their customer base isn't getting a custom game tailored to them, BioWare isn't going to retract announcements and scrap all their plans to please what barely amounts to not even 10% (yes, that's us on the forums)."

This is sad. I know that we are a minority among Bioware fans, but we on the forums are the ones who give voice to our concerns, we tell you what we like and what we don't like. Other fans, who don't even come here won't tell you whether they like your ideas or not. They might as well hate the Hawke character as well. They just don't come here.

But that doesn't mean that we don't matter whatsoever to BioWare. On the contrary, just look at the massive amount of Easter eggs in ME2, more than a few of them DIRECTLY point to conversations on the forums, such as Blasto the Hanar Spectre, and most cool and very much unknown, the email from the "salarian" named Jeirt, which is a DIRECT reference to Jeirt, from the old forums and her unabashed love of Thane's character

[thenemesis77]

javierabegazo wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...


Well but I still would find it reasonable that if my first product is an unexpected success, I don't change too many things for the follow-up. If the follow-up has lower sales you can look for problems. If you keep changing around things without any feedback then how could you possibly know that you are doing it right?

What can I say I am always saying the same thing. I am disappointed my warden's story ends so soon. As I was disappointed of DA:A because I could only keep the one party member I found disgusting, Oghren. Not to mention what they did to Mhairi ... I'd given them the two dwarves in exchange.

The way I see it is this:
It would be a real cop-out if BioWare, because of all the Warden love, were to scrap their plans of how they wanted to tell the story of Thedas and instead JUST tell it through the eyes of a Grey Warden, reskinning DAO into a new game with slightly updated features be it inventory, approval system, what have you

I see there is no headway at all. I know you guys will  love the new game, I just wounder if there are any plans for  more expansions for DAO, thast all I ask, I'am sure David will give a simple ya or na.  Just need to know  so I can either keep this on my system or delete it off, takes up space you know.

Modifié par thenemesis77, 10 juillet 2010 - 10:40 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

javierabegazo wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

  It's obvious what we want doesn't count and when we make our wishes known we are now being reduced to being placed in the small percentage column.  I see that small percentage column having a fair amount of people in it.  

It's not even like that. Sometimes someone doesn't want to tell the story you WANT them to tell. Perhaps they've already had a loose outline of HOW they wanted to tell the story of Thedas during the Dragon Age.

Just because a suggestion made by a huge number of users wasn't implemented doesn't mean it "didn't count" but rather that either it was unfeasable, or other plans were already drawn up, and they decided to do it as pla

I do see what you are saying here, I honestly do.  I get it that some of the writer's have their own ideas where they want to take these stories and in what areas and most often these have already been decided on before any offical announcement.  I get it. 

However, for months polls and feedback have been asked on this new release for sometime.  I've been following not only this forum but other places on the web discussing DA.  If I as a consumer on the internet can see it then I don't understand why bioware's and it's staff problem is.  I understand where the writers and developers want to take the story is not always going to be the way the player wants it.  But sometimes providing a great product that will live up to the fantastic game that DAO was, sometime you have to scrap your outline and go with your fanbase.

I'm sorry, but you and I are not going to agree on this issue.

:ph34r:fixes quote box

Modifié par javierabegazo, 10 juillet 2010 - 10:44 .

[Riona45]

thenemesis77 wrote...


I have to say your dead right, all you have to to is wait for them 12 to 15 years olds that dont read up on it and get their moms to buy the game, if that is the target, then your right and you don't have to make a great game, as DAO was, just make a new central character that they can see themselfs as and wing it from there, if you make it like ME then thats ok, they won't care and it makes it easy on David to come up with a easy story and the developers can just take the ME engine and tweek it to a DA setting, quick and easy, fast cash in our new age of dumbed down people that only see the tree not the forest

Dumbed down people, like those who can't properly use punctuation?

[javierabegazo]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...
 I understand where the writers and developers want to take the story is not always going to be the way the player wants it.  But sometimes providing a great product that will live up to the fantastic game that DAO was, sometime you have to scrap your outline and go with your fanbase.

I'm sorry, but you and I are not going to agree on this issue.

Well I'll repost this here because this post by Mr. Gaider really hit home and was quite clear on BioWare's DA team's intention on the DA Series

javierabegazo wrote...

Just wanted to point out this David
Gaider post
http://social.biowar...17&lf=8#3086205

David
Gaider wrote...

Tezzajh wrote...
so is
there a
reason as to why you start a new story, when the wardens has not

finished as now i dont see how its a sqeual unless it somehow relates
to
the warden for a possible DA3.

you know halo followed 1 guy
and
called it 1 2 and 3 then soon as they ditched him they called it
ODST
and REACH not halo 4 and 5

The Warden's story is not
part
of DA2.

Dragon Age is not about the Warden-- it's about
Thedas,
and the period of time within it called the Dragon Age.

I

guess we could drag the Warden into new stories even without a
Blight
to combat-- I could certainly think of things such a hero could
do,
even at such a high level-- but I also like the idea of visiting
different
stories, told through different heroes, rather than revisiting
the
same well over and over or trying to contrive a way to squeeze the
Warden
into places he/she doesn't belong.

If you disagree, then
I'm
sorry to disappoint. I hope you'll find something about DA2 to love,

and that you'll take ownership of Hawke the same way you did with your
Warden.
Just because you liked one of our characters that much,
after
all, doesn't mean it couldn't ever never ever happen again, does
it?
[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

Edit: What's up with the wierd sentance splicing, huh Website???

Modifié par javierabegazo, 10 juillet 2010 - 10:46 .

[dragon_83]

AllThatJazz wrote...

That's assuming a lot! That it won't be a great game because it isn't exactly the same as Origins? So you have a Grey Warden as hero/ine. Then, of course, you have to have a Blight, cos otherwise a Grey Warden really isn't the ideal hero. Then you have to have a cast of companions - which includes all the people everyone really liked from the last game. Everyone except Oghren, then. I liked Oghren, though, and you need a dwarf, so he's in too. What do we have? Dragon Age Origins. I've already PLAYED Origins!

I'm not a teenager, or anyone with concentration span or IQ issues. I just think that I've read a lot of crap books and played a lot of crap games and watched a lot of crap movies and tv shows in my many years. There is nothing more mind-numbing than the feeling of repeating the same experience over and over and over again. I've also experienced a lot of great media, and that stuff has tended to be where someone has tried something a bit different. DA2 may fail, who knows? But I refuse to condemn Bioware's writing and production staff for having the guts to try something that isn't rinse and repeat of DA1. Yes, even if it borrows some elements from another game. And yes, even if that first game has a solid fan base that liked its style (including myself). Ambition is something sadly lacking in the creative industries today.

Sorry, long winded again!

I think most of us like new things and ideas in the games. It's just that we think that this idea about the predetermined hero in DA2 won't make the game better. It will make it more cinematic yes, but in the same time it will restrict some of the role playing.

Modifié par dragon_83, 10 juillet 2010 - 10:47 .

[thenemesis77]

I will be the first of us that want to keep our Warden to say Iam sorry, really iam. I just know for a fact that David, made the best story for a game to ever be told and you did one hell of a job, I hope they have you a raise for that. I have lashed out as many othere have and again I'am sorry for that. I was taken on such a ride with DAO, unlike anything I have had, either in a book or a game and I didn't want it to end. I wanted to see my Warden save Morrigan and the child, for how ever that sound corney or not. I really want somekind of end for him and with DAA, I felt like he left but was not done and his story was not done. I know David has great storys and I will not lie, I bet he has a great one for DA2 and I have no dought it will do well. Many of you have seen me vent out on the boards and I thank the mods for putting up with it and I would like to say Iam sorry to them too. You just never want to see a good story with characters you love end and it is sad to me, like any book, I have grown to love them. I hope we can all take a few steps back and see what David has for us, I know I have not even given the man a chance and Iam sorry David, really Iam.

[Riona45]

thenemesis77 wrote...

I will be the first of us that want to keep our Warden to say Iam sorry, really iam. I just know for a fact that David, made the best story for a game to ever be told and you did one hell of a job, I hope they have you a raise for that. I have lashed out as many othere have and again I'am sorry for that. I was taken on such a ride with DAO, unlike anything I have had, either in a book or a game and I didn't want it to end. I wanted to see my Warden save Morrigan and the child, for how ever that sound corney or not. I really want somekind of end for him and with DAA, I felt like he left but was not done and his story was not done. I know David has great storys and I will not lie, I bet he has a great one for DA2 and I have no dought it will do well. Many of you have seen me vent out on the boards and I thank the mods for putting up with it and I would like to say Iam sorry to them too. You just never want to see a good story with characters you love end and it is sad to me, like any book, I have grown to love them. I hope we can all take a few steps back and see what David has for us, I know I have not even given the man a chance and Iam sorry David, really Iam.

LOL!  I rest my case...