241 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

<Snip>
We do listen, and are, in fact, listening right now, but as someone you'll meet very soon is fond of saying, "You need to hear the whole story." We know what we're working on, and I firmly believe that the end product will not disappoint.

<Snip>
Mike..

This sounds suspiciously like that old Conan game 'Conan the Cimmerian' by Virgin Interactive I think.   Where when you used to die it would cut back to the old man narrating and say ' No, no that's not how it happened.'

In which case, awesome.  Because that game rocked.

[Estel78]

AlexXIV wrote...

Well not exactly. It is going to be some important person of Thedas in whose role I slip for a while.

The Warden was some important person of Thedas in whose role you slip for a while. Same thing.

[Estel78]

Pissed_off_Gamer108 wrote...

They wouldn't be able to make ANY games if we, the gamers, didn't buy them. So yes, that gives us rights. I mean seriously, do you think they're making these games to sate THEIR artistic hunger? If so, you're misinformed. They make games, all developers make games, for one reason and one reason only....MONEY! We,the people, have the money they want. So I say, if they want it, they'll give us something in return. Not $60 movies. No, Mass Effect 2 was a WASTE of time and money. What we want are interactive stories. 
I will NOT buy the Dragon Age sequel if they do not cater to us. Call us spoiled, call us ingrates, call us whatever you please. But the fact of the matter is, my words will be proven true if they're not adhered to. In a decade's time, maybe less, the gaming industry will falter. There will be no more blockbuster games. We'll be lucky to get ANY games. Mark my words. We've already seen evidence of this. Look at the last two years and name my 5 games you've purchased and actually enjoyed. Games you didn't sell, games you plan on playing again and again. Name me just 5. 
In years past, people could name 10, 20 even. A great game used to come out bi-monthly and we'd all be faced with a choice of "what do I play??" because we couldn't simply decide which one excited us the most. 
The golden age of gaming has come to an end. Now it's ALL shooters. Shooters or kiddy games. There are no true RPGs anymore. There are no turned based strategy. All the genres have fallen away to give trigger happy sheep more digital fodder to take aim at. 

lolwut

[tbsking]

soteria wrote...

I guess I don't see how a story about Maric that is only tangentially connected to your warden's story is that much more related than that of a character who actually lived in the same time frame and probably crossed paths with your warden in Lothering. As I understand, both books, but moreso the first, have to do with the setting (kicking Orlais out of Ferelden). That's no more directly related than the story of a character who escaped the blight--but probably wouldn't have if your warden hadn't stopped it.

A fair opinion. I bought the books because I desired to learn more about the setting. I was displeased that I didn't know very much of what was referred to during the course of the game and that I had to make inferences, so I decided to rectify that. I like the occasional comic book, and I heard a Dragon Age comic was coming out.

However, the game was about my Warden. The game was a story in which my Warden was an important character. The game left tons of cliffhangers and sequel hooks. I was looking forward to a sequel that would finish it. Perhaps then I would be far more willing to hear about this Hawke guy. As it is, I feel quite like I've been left hanging, and I'm more interested in my Warden then about Hawke. I'd rather wait to see if my Warden gets to come back. If he does, I'll be all over that. If not... Well, my Dragon Age experience will be limited to whatever other material comes out.

I love the game, don't get me wrong. I think BioWare is the best at what they do. But I feel like the story of my Warden is only half-told and I don't really want to play the game as another person until it's finished.

[Riona45]

Pissed_off_Gamer108 wrote...
In a decade's time, maybe less, the gaming industry will falter. There will be no more blockbuster games. We'll be lucky to get ANY games. Mark my words. We've already seen evidence of this. Look at the last two years and name my 5 games you've purchased and actually enjoyed. Games you didn't sell, games you plan on playing again and again. Name me just 5. 
In years past, people could name 10, 20 even. A great game used to come out bi-monthly and we'd all be faced with a choice of "what do I play??" because we couldn't simply decide which one excited us the most. 
The golden age of gaming has come to an end. Now it's ALL shooters. Shooters or kiddy games. There are no true RPGs anymore. There are no turned based strategy. All the genres have fallen away to give trigger happy sheep more digital fodder to take aim at. 

This is just the nostaglia filter at work again.  You said you remember the original Playstation?  A lot of people here remember farther back than that.  Every generation thinks the quality of "new stuff" is inferior to the old, mainly because the old stuff that gets *remembered* is the good stuff.  Shlock games have always been made, it's just that the old shlock is forgotten about whereas the new schlock is still fresh in our memory.

[JeanLuc761]

Pissed_off_Gamer108 wrote...
They wouldn't be able to make ANY games if we, the gamers, didn't buy them. So yes, that gives us rights. I mean seriously, do you think they're making these games to sate THEIR artistic hunger? If so, you're misinformed. They make games, all developers make games, for one reason and one reason only....MONEY! We,the people, have the money they want. So I say, if they want it, they'll give us something in return. Not $60 movies. No, Mass Effect 2 was a WASTE of time and money. What we want are interactive stories. 
I will NOT buy the Dragon Age sequel if they do not cater to us. Call us spoiled, call us ingrates, call us whatever you please. But the fact of the matter is, my words will be proven true if they're not adhered to. In a decade's time, maybe less, the gaming industry will falter. There will be no more blockbuster games. We'll be lucky to get ANY games. Mark my words. We've already seen evidence of this. Look at the last two years and name my 5 games you've purchased and actually enjoyed. Games you didn't sell, games you plan on playing again and again. Name me just 5. 
In years past, people could name 10, 20 even. A great game used to come out bi-monthly and we'd all be faced with a choice of "what do I play??" because we couldn't simply decide which one excited us the most. 
The golden age of gaming has come to an end. Now it's ALL shooters. Shooters or kiddy games. There are no true RPGs anymore. There are no turned based strategy. All the genres have fallen away to give trigger happy sheep more digital fodder to take aim at. 

You enjoy stating your opinion as fact don't you?  Let's address a few of your points.

First off, any developer who is making a game simply for money shouldn't be in business as far as I'm concerned.  Good developers (Bioware, Blizzard, Valve, etc) make their games because they love them.  They love creating worlds, they love creating stories, they love games!  They money is certainly an important factor both in development and financial success of a title, but if you honestly think that every single game developer only makes video games for $$ then you are bar none the most jaded and cynical person I've ever "met."

Another point of yours, "name five games over the last two years."
1) Mass Effect 2
2) Dragon Age
3) Battlefield: Bad Company 2
4) Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
5) Burnout Paradise
6) Batman: Arkham Asylum
7) Need for Speed: Shift
8) Prince of Persia (2008)
9) Serious Sam HD: The First Encounter (technically a remake)
10) Gears of War 2
11) Left 4 Dead 2
12) Resident Evil 5
13) Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
14) Dead Space
15) Fallout 3
16) Grand Theft Auto 4
17) Left 4 Dead
18) World of Goo

And those are just the ones I played.

[Icinix]

Riona45 wrote...

Pissed_off_Gamer108 wrote...
In a decade's time, maybe less, the gaming industry will falter. There will be no more blockbuster games. We'll be lucky to get ANY games. Mark my words. We've already seen evidence of this. Look at the last two years and name my 5 games you've purchased and actually enjoyed. Games you didn't sell, games you plan on playing again and again. Name me just 5. 
In years past, people could name 10, 20 even. A great game used to come out bi-monthly and we'd all be faced with a choice of "what do I play??" because we couldn't simply decide which one excited us the most. 
The golden age of gaming has come to an end. Now it's ALL shooters. Shooters or kiddy games. There are no true RPGs anymore. There are no turned based strategy. All the genres have fallen away to give trigger happy sheep more digital fodder to take aim at. 

This is just the nostaglia filter at work again.  You said you remember the original Playstation?  A lot of people here remember farther back than that.  Every generation thinks the quality of "new stuff" is inferior to the old, mainly because the old stuff that gets *remembered* is the good stuff.  Shlock games have always been made, it's just that the old shlock is forgotten about whereas the new schlock is still fresh in our memory.

As far as I'm concerned. Kroz was the greatest game ever.

It had a whip and everything.  They just don't make games as good as that anymore, and quite frankly I find the whole gaming industry has been cheapened and dumbed down ever since.

/extreme sarcasm (Although I really did like Kroz)

[Estel78]

Icinix wrote...

This sounds suspiciously like that old Conan game 'Conan the Cimmerian' by Virgin Interactive I think.   Where when you used to die it would cut back to the old man narrating and say ' No, no that's not how it happened.'

In which case, awesome.  Because that game rocked.

I think i know the game. Didn't the same developer also make a game about King Arthur with similar mechanics? Those were pretty awesome games, indeed.

[Riona45]

Icinix wrote...

As far as I'm concerned. Kroz was the greatest game ever.

It had a whip and everything.  They just don't make games as good as that anymore, and quite frankly I find the whole gaming industry has been cheapened and dumbed down ever since.

/extreme sarcasm (Although I really did like Kroz)

Heh!

[Revya]

They really shouldn't when people are filled with rage.



Most of the stuff they said are not earthshatering, but it is interesting that they are trying to branch out with this story, its a more personal tale instead of having a hero VS Big Bad (a Trade Mark of Bioware since the start).

[Icinix]

Estel78 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

This sounds suspiciously like that old Conan game 'Conan the Cimmerian' by Virgin Interactive I think.   Where when you used to die it would cut back to the old man narrating and say ' No, no that's not how it happened.'

In which case, awesome.  Because that game rocked.

I think i know the game. Didn't the same developer also make a game about King Arthur with similar mechanics? Those were pretty awesome games, indeed.

Indeed they did. Spirit of Excalibur.  Same sort of combat and roleplaying, only you could build up armies and control different characters.  Came on 9 Low Density disks by memory.  Came in a three pack called 'Corruption' with floor 13 - another very cool game somewhat similar to the modern day 'uplink' without the hacking.

Edit : Dug up the box, and Conan has 7 disks and SOE has 4.  Man I used to hate having to install it, although it still works.

Modifié par Icinix, 11 juillet 2010 - 12:41 .

[soteria]

Well not exactly. It is going to be some important person of Thedas in whose role I slip for a while. My Warden was my Warden. Also the whole 'rise to power' thing is not my cup of tea either. I mean if it was a military/strategy game or build-up/economy simulation, ok, there is a challenge. But where is really the challenge to become wealthy or powerful in an RPG, it is only about plot choices right?

By the same logic, your warden is just some important person in Thedas whose shoes you slip into for a time, while he raises an army and slays a dragon. My Hawke is my Hawke. I'm saying you have no idea if you're going to connect with your character or not. Besides, where's the challenge in killing a dumb dragon or raising an army? It's all just plot choices.

You can summarize almost any plot in a sentence and make it sound boring. "The Count of Monte Cristo is just a revenge story about some guy who gets thrown in jail wrongfully." "A Tale of Two Cities is just about a couple English dudes who lived during the French Revolution." We don't know enough about the plot to figure out if the story is good or not. All we have is bare bones.

[DaeJi]

I would say that BioWare listens to their fans at times. Combat in Mass Effect 2 shows this. But other times, they don't. Wanting to keep planet scanning in Mass Effect 3 shows this.



Not every fan suggestion, even one supported by a number of fans, is a good one. They need to know what to listen too and what to tune out. And no company has ever mastered that.

[tbsking]

soteria wrote...

Well not exactly. It is going to be some important person of Thedas in whose role I slip for a while. My Warden was my Warden. Also the whole 'rise to power' thing is not my cup of tea either. I mean if it was a military/strategy game or build-up/economy simulation, ok, there is a challenge. But where is really the challenge to become wealthy or powerful in an RPG, it is only about plot choices right?

By the same logic, your warden is just some important person in Thedas whose shoes you slip into for a time, while he raises an army and slays a dragon. My Hawke is my Hawke. I'm saying you have no idea if you're going to connect with your character or not. Besides, where's the challenge in killing a dumb dragon or raising an army? It's all just plot choices.
You can summarize almost any plot in a sentence and make it sound boring. "The Count of Monte Cristo is just a revenge story about some guy who gets thrown in jail wrongfully." "A Tale of Two Cities is just about a couple English dudes who lived during the French Revolution." We don't know enough about the plot to figure out if the story is good or not. All we have is bare bones.

True. However, the Warden was a character we had complete control of. We decided what race, gender and what class he was. We decided his Origin, and we in our minds created a personality and an entire life story for this guy. Everything about him was up to us. We didn't just "slip into" him. We birthed him. He's my baby, I fed him, I sheltered him, everything he experienced was my own experience.

Together, we conquered the world. For all intents and purposes, the Warden was an extention of myself.

Now, Hawke has a lot about him that is already decided. His race, his background, his voice, and therefore inevitably his personality. If it lives up to the ME standard that was set, he will either be a jerk, an upstanding member of society, or too aloof to care.

A lot of what went into creating the attatchment between character and player in DAO is lost the instant we step definitively into the role of Hawke.

[bjdbwea]

They will of course have a general idea of what people say on the forums. Does it have much influence? Certainly not. Complaints on the forums were used to justify drastic changes in ME 2, but of course that was more a convenient excuse for changes that were planned anyway than anything else. It did have an influence on the return of some companions though.

As far as participation from the developers in the forums is concerned: It starts when a new game is around the corner, and stops when it's been released. ME 2 made that very clear too.

[Sable Rhapsody]

soteria wrote...
You can summarize almost any plot in a sentence and make it sound boring. "The Count of Monte Cristo is just a revenge story about some guy who gets thrown in jail wrongfully." "A Tale of Two Cities is just about a couple English dudes who lived during the French Revolution." We don't know enough about the plot to figure out if the story is good or not. All we have is bare bones.

And even the video games with good writing have very simplistic plots at heart.  The plot of the entire Mass Effect series is essentially "Shepard PUNCH!"  OK, not really, more like "Shepard punch...machines!" but you get the idea.  The core plots of most WRPGs are ridiculously simple.  It's the other plots that weave around them that give them substance.

tbsking wrote...

Together, we conquered the world. For all intents and purposes, the Warden was an extention of myself.

Now, Hawke has a lot about him that is already decided. His race, his background, his voice, and therefore inevitably his personality. If it lives up to the ME standard that was set, he will either be a jerk, an upstanding member of society, or too aloof to care.

A lot of what went into creating the attatchment between character and player in DAO is lost the instant we step definitively into the role of Hawke.

Having the DA series being about the whole world of Thedas, I would argue, weaves a far richer overall narrative.  It's not just about WARDEN SMASH DRAGON.  It's about the Warden, about Hawke, about Morrigan and Flemeth, and everything links together in this nice big web.  

Also, if you require a character as customizable as the Warden to feel attachment to the character, forget about playing...erm...most other CRPGs.  KOTOR, KOTOR2, the Fallout series, PS:T, the BG trilogy, Jade Empire, and frillions of other CRPGs are as restrictive or only a little less restrictive than DA2. 

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 11 juillet 2010 - 12:50 .

[thenemesis77]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

In many cases, we're simply in a position where we cannot discuss certain points due to the way we're handling the release, or in order to be respectful of people like Game Informer who vary graciously gave us an opportunity to appear on their cover, even when other titles were certainly hoping to fill the post-E3 wrap up issue cover spot.

We do listen, and are, in fact, listening right now, but as someone you'll meet very soon is fond of saying, "You need to hear the whole story." We know what we're working on, and I firmly believe that the end product will not disappoint.

You may disagree with a few decisions, and that's fair, it's your right as consumers, fans and avid RPG players. So long as the discussion is civil, we're happy to have it with you....once we can dive in in detail and discuss it in context, because we all know that platitudes and teases are only fun in limited doses, if at all. You guys are too plugged-in for that, and we're going to try and get you more updates as time goes by. That's a big part of Victor's role, for instance.

For now, I will simply beg your patience, and enjoy the speculation that I'm starting to see about the characters (returning and new), story, and just what changes we made to combat. Always interesting to see what guesses folks make this early on. Some of them are even right on, but I'm not saying which, of course.

Mike..

I will be the first to back mike and say lets have some patience, the story could have all sorts of things to it, we just need to claim down, hell I know how I have been on these boards, so mad I could not even post without hate.

I want to read the GI  mag and see what we have, I for one and this is me, think that our DAO story isnot  over and even if this is a new story I think somehow it could tie in to where we get what we want and I won't say what that is.

I think Hawke is a guy or gal that was going into hell when our Warden was saving the day and it spans over 10 years so that give both our Warden and Hawke time to grow in whatever areas that BioWare and us have to say about.

Unless in DA2 they say our Warden is dead, don't lose hope. I think, again IMO, that our Warden will play a role, not really in part two but with the choices we make with Hawke will effect how he is.

On what characters come back, I don't know and will have to see, but at any rate, I think this will tie both DAO and DA2 for the next game or DLC or Expansion pack, you name it. I think that is will be a huge Story and I do think in the end you will pick either the Warden or Hawke to play for the end of the age, hell you never know but as I said that  is IMO. 

What I think would make people happy and I don't know if David has thought of it is a way to carry the story to where you as in a end game kind of last game, to pick either the Warden and his party for reasons known and unknown or Hawke for reasons known and unkown and with great David at the helm, you have the choice to pick evil vs evil  or good vs good, or a number of outcomes.  I really think this would be a way to make all partys happy and David I really think that it would lead to one hell of a story but as I said this is what I have come up with and I don't know what most would think of it.


I will clear this up some, I was told to so here goes, what I mean is like Hawke and is rise to power good or evil to take out our warden for siding with Morrigan and his child or the Warden seeing it as a new age and having to kill Hawke for the baby and Morrigan to bring a age of good, this could go in many oulets it would be up to David and what we do in game, just a thought of mine, nothing more.........thanks Morrigan for that last line, lol.

Modifié par thenemesis77, 11 juillet 2010 - 01:08 .

[foo man chew]

I just want to know if we can expect a 50 to 60 hour game again and deep customization with lots of rpg elements.Im sure the story will be fine but the gameplay is what im worried about being changed.Anyway someone from bioware could give us some answers on this?It would be appreciated.

[Riona45]

tbsking wrote...
We didn't just "slip into" him. We birthed him. He's my baby, I fed him, I sheltered him, everything he experienced was my own experience.

TMI

Anyway, we do get to choose Hawke's gender and class, if not race.  I haven't read anything saying we can't shape the character's personality.

[tbsking]

Bottom line for me: The story of the Warden isn't finished. Every epilogue says as much. It seems that they were building up for something, something big and dramatic and epic. Yet, they chose instead to follow a different character. Even if our decisions affect this guy, it isn't the conclusion to our epic that is desperately needed.



Perhaps out of protest or out of preference, I will not be partaking in this game at this point in time.

[Ecael]

tbsking wrote...

True. However, the Warden

he
his
this guy
him
him
him
He's
him
him
he

Now, Hawke

him
His
his
his
he

A lot of what went into creating the attatchment between character and player in DAO is lost the instant we step definitively into the role of Hawke.

I don't see the difference if you are going to refer to both characters as "he" or "she" instead of "I".

If you're going to be that picky, you should have lost the attachment the moment you switched to another party member in Dragon Age: Origins.

[LPPrince]

Ecael wrote...

tbsking wrote...

True. However, the Warden

he
his
this guy
him
him
him
He's
him
him
he

Now, Hawke

him
His
his
his
he

A lot of what went into creating the attatchment between character and player in DAO is lost the instant we step definitively into the role of Hawke.

I don't see the difference if you are going to refer to both characters as "he" or "she" instead of "I".

If you're going to be that picky, you should have lost the attachment the moment you switched to another party member in Dragon Age: Origins.

This.

[tbsking]

I'm trying to make a clear division between myself and the Warden character for sake of clarity in the context of this forum.



And I didn't have the attachment with any of my party characters that I had for the Warden. I switched to Leliana when I needed a chest unlocked. I switched to Morrigan when I needed a spell cast. I didn't lose the attachment I had for my Warden just because I was utilizing another character for a bit simply because I was able to switch back just as quick.



Neither Leliana nor Morrigan received much input from me. Only the Warden did. Hawke is a different character, one who has much of his being fleshed out before I've even picked up a controller. He is simply not the Warden that I spent so much time crafting and getting to know.



He is Hawke. He will, at this point in time, always be Hawke.



While I did get attached to other characters in different ways, I found myself having bonded in a sense with my Warden, who remained a constant throughout the story. Hawke is not a constant, not yet at least. He might become that, in time. But right now, I don't like the idea of playing as another character when my current character still has work to do yet.

[whinnie]

tbsking wrote...

Bottom line for me: The story of the Warden isn't finished. Every epilogue says as much. It seems that they were building up for something, something big and dramatic and epic. Yet, they chose instead to follow a different character. Even if our decisions affect this guy, it isn't the conclusion to our epic that is desperately needed.

Perhaps out of protest or out of preference, I will not be partaking in this game at this point in time.

maybe bioware arent trying to make a series of games about your warden, maybe they're making a franchise out of dragon age and all the interesting and epic events that happen within it...and you may want your warden to be a playable character because you saved yours, but what about everyone who's warden sacrificed themselfs?
i really why you cant see this not as a follow up to origins but a completely different  game set in the same world.

[tbsking]

whinnie wrote...

tbsking wrote...

Bottom line for me: The story of the Warden isn't finished. Every epilogue says as much. It seems that they were building up for something, something big and dramatic and epic. Yet, they chose instead to follow a different character. Even if our decisions affect this guy, it isn't the conclusion to our epic that is desperately needed.

Perhaps out of protest or out of preference, I will not be partaking in this game at this point in time.

maybe bioware arent trying to make a series of games about your warden, maybe they're making a franchise out of dragon age and all the interesting and epic events that happen within it...and you may want your warden to be a playable character because you saved yours, but what about everyone who's warden sacrificed themselfs?
i really why you cant see this not as a follow up to origins but a completely different  game set in the same world.

I'm all for fleshing out the setting, I really am. For those that sacrificed their Wardens, those tales are complete, for them. I didn't I was left with a Warden and a number of ending all implying that there are continued adventures, all left with cliffhangers and hints and others that would lend themselves towards a sequel.

It feels like the story isn't complete. I know I'm not the only one of this opinion even on this forum.

Case in point, Morrigan runs off with my kid, I promise to follow. The game remains very ambiguous as to whether or not I find her, saying that "well, if you do, it isn't for years" and leaves her motivations and reasoning very vague. That's something that a lot of people considered to be the hook for a sequel.

However, they announce that the latest installment won't touch on those issues. Heck, even an Orlesian Warden gets a cliffhanger ending left ambiguous.

It feels like they were going for something big. It feels like they were preparing a sort of story arc revolving around the single character. But the sequel is revealed to have little to do with that tale and its left open until they decide to follow up, if ever they do.