85 réponses à ce sujet

[Dick Delaware]

 Alright, I'm aware that so far, we're going to have ME style dialogue. From what a few posters here mentioned in a magazine preview, options will also include a general tone (i.e. sarcastic, aggressive) to convey how a certain line of dialogue will be spoken to an NPC.

So, from what I understand, it'll be sort of a mix of Mass Effect's paraphrasing, and Alpha Protocol's "stance system", where you are given the gist of what Hawke will say in addition to how Hawke will say it. Will this be the case for the dialogue system? Devs, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

If this is the case, then I think it's very good for this kind of dialogue system. That way, you don't get the redundancy of hearing every line of dialogue over again, but at the same time, it isn't vague and doesn't give as much of a discrepancy between the dialogue prompt and what is actually being said, allowing things to be clearer for the player.

Modifié par Dick Delaware, 10 juillet 2010 - 10:17 .

[SirOccam]

I didn't see a question there, but I think you have the right of it. I wasn't a huge fan of ME's system, but this sort of hybrid system I think will work quite well.

[Dick Delaware]

Er.. thanks SirOccam. It's good to be reminded every now and again when you make a thread title about a question that you, you know, ask a question. Thanks for spotting it, already edited.

Modifié par Dick Delaware, 10 juillet 2010 - 10:18 .

[Dick Delaware]

Bump.



It seems I'm getting lost in the shuffle of those all-important topics like "What kind of hair will be available?" "Will my PC get a puppy?!" and "OH NOES, DRAGON AEG RUINED FOREVER!!!"

[Arttis]

I am fine with redundant so i dislike it.

[Monstruo696]

Godamit, why did they have to MassEffect the dialogue system? What was wrong with the tree?

[Mary Kirby]

Dick Delaware wrote...

 Alright, I'm aware that so far, we're going to have ME style dialogue. From what a few posters here mentioned in a magazine preview, options will also include a general tone (i.e. sarcastic, aggressive) to convey how a certain line of dialogue will be spoken to an NPC.

So, from what I understand, it'll be sort of a mix of Mass Effect's paraphrasing, and Alpha Protocol's "stance system", where you are given the gist of what Hawke will say in addition to how Hawke will say it. Will this be the case for the dialogue system? Devs, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

If this is the case, then I think it's very good for this kind of dialogue system. That way, you don't get the redundancy of hearing every line of dialogue over again, but at the same time, it isn't vague and doesn't give as much of a discrepancy between the dialogue prompt and what is actually being said, allowing things to be clearer for the player.

I haven't played Alpha Protocol yet, so I can't compare the DA2 system with theirs. However, it looks like you've got the gist of the new system. You have a wheel like Mass Effect's, and when you move over a selection, you get an icon in the center of the wheel that indicates the intent of the player line: Flirty, violent, sarcastic, etc.

[Monstruo696]

Mary Kirby wrote...

I haven't played Alpha Protocol yet, so I can't compare the DA2 system with theirs. However, it looks like you've got the gist of the new system. You have a wheel like Mass Effect's, and when you move over a selection, you get an icon in the center of the wheel that indicates the intent of the player line: Flirty, violent, sarcastic, etc.

Quick question, why did you do away with the tree and replace it with the wheel?

Other than that, I guess I can make do.  At least I won't accidentally start flirting with Zevran by mistake and be forced to reload the save right before I meet him and slash his throat before he has a chance to wake up.

[_- Songlian -]

Mary Kirby wrote...
I haven't played Alpha Protocol yet, so I can't compare the DA2 system with theirs. However, it looks like you've got the gist of the new system. You have a wheel like Mass Effect's, and when you move over a selection, you get an icon in the center of the wheel that indicates the intent of the player line: Flirty, violent, sarcastic, etc.

I could have done without the over-explanatory icon, but over all, I liked the wheel in ME2 and I do like the fact that the line does not get read twice, so I'm quite good with this change. Enchantment. 

[sonlockdon]

so you dont get to choose what to say like in DA:O you can only decide the tone, or manner to respond in?

[Dave of Canada]

- Songlian - wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...
I haven't played Alpha Protocol yet, so I can't compare the DA2 system with theirs. However, it looks like you've got the gist of the new system. You have a wheel like Mass Effect's, and when you move over a selection, you get an icon in the center of the wheel that indicates the intent of the player line: Flirty, violent, sarcastic, etc.

I could have done without the over-explanatory icon, but over all, I liked the wheel in ME2 and I do like the fact that the line does not get read twice, so I'm quite good with this change. Enchantment. 

The icon is sort of neccessary, the way it stands in Mass Effect is that it isn't described enough from the paraphrased summary of the line. "No." could turn into a "Get the hell out of here" even though you just wanted to simply say no.

[SirOccam]

- Songlian - wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...
I haven't played Alpha Protocol yet, so I can't compare the DA2 system with theirs. However, it looks like you've got the gist of the new system. You have a wheel like Mass Effect's, and when you move over a selection, you get an icon in the center of the wheel that indicates the intent of the player line: Flirty, violent, sarcastic, etc.

I could have done without the over-explanatory icon, but over all, I liked the wheel in ME2 and I do like the fact that the line does not get read twice, so I'm quite good with this change. Enchantment. 

I think the icon is necessary because one of the main gripes about the ME2 wheel is that what they say doesn't match up all that often with the paraphrased line. Even DA:O wasn't immune from this, even though you see the entire text. So now we'll have the paraphrased lines, but the icons will balance out the loss of specificity. A great compromise, IMO.

[Aetheria]

SirOccam wrote...

I think the icon is necessary because one of the main gripes about the ME2 wheel is that what they say doesn't match up all that often with the paraphrased line. Even DA:O wasn't immune from this, even though you see the entire text. So now we'll have the paraphrased lines, but the icons will balance out the loss of specificity. A great compromise, IMO.

Even in DA:O, there was occasionally a bit of a disconnect between what you thought a line would mean and the way in which the game assumed you meant it - sometimes a dialogue option that looked like a mild joke would be taken as an insult, etc., and there was no way to figure out whether the game thought you really had insulted an NPC, or whether he was overreacting. Voice acting and those icons should make it much clearer what's going on in conversations, I think.

Modifié par Aetheria, 11 juillet 2010 - 12:24 .

[Aetheria]

edit: Damn, quoted myself. How'd that happen? 

Aetheria wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

I think the icon is necessary because one of the main gripes about the ME2 wheel is that what they say doesn't match up all that often with the paraphrased line. Even DA:O wasn't immune from this, even though you see the entire text. So now we'll have the paraphrased lines, but the icons will balance out the loss of specificity. A great compromise, IMO.

Even in DA:O, there was occasionally a bit of a disconnect between what you thought a line would mean and the way in which the game assumed you meant it - sometimes a dialogue option that looked like a mild joke would be taken as an insult, etc., and there was no way to figure out whether the game thought you really had insulted an NPC, or whether he was overreacting. Voice acting and those icons should make it much clearer what's going on in conversations, I think.

Modifié par Aetheria, 11 juillet 2010 - 12:23 .

[Tooneyman]

I don't care about the wheel system. I think its going to work either way. I've been playing mass effect sense the first demo came out. I'm used to the system. Though I'm just glad you guys didn't deicde to go heavy rain style that would be. Getting a headache now!

[In Exile]

Mary Kirby wrote...

I haven't played Alpha Protocol yet, so I can't compare the DA2 system with theirs. However, it looks like you've got the gist of the new system. You have a wheel like Mass Effect's, and when you move over a selection, you get an icon in the center of the wheel that indicates the intent of the player line: Flirty, violent, sarcastic, etc.

Alpha protocol has a timed dialogue wheel where instead of picking your dialogue, you pick your "personality" and your character says that line based on the personality. "Suave" would be the sarcastic option/hit on women option; "Professional" would be like the middle right option in the dialogue wheel.

It's far less advanced than the ME dialogue wheel, because you're never allowed to know what the "stance" means short of what attitude you're taking. It's far more prone to surprises than ME.

[Dick Delaware]

Mary Kirby wrote...
I haven't played Alpha Protocol yet, so I can't compare the DA2 system with theirs. However, it looks like you've got the gist of the new system. You have a wheel like Mass Effect's, and when you move over a selection, you get an icon in the center of the wheel that indicates the intent of the player line: Flirty, violent, sarcastic, etc.

Thank you for confirming it. That sounds promising and an improvement over the dialogue wheel.

But if you don't mind, I'd like to know more. To better illustrate my question, let's use a standard RPG trope that's in pretty much every RPG ever, including Dragon Age - bandits trying to charge a toll to get into a town.

On the dialogue wheel, one option is "Convince bandit to let you in for free" while the other is "Attack". You put the mouse over the first option, and you pick out Aggressive, let's say.

PC: (Aggressive) I've killed dozens of qunari on my way over here twice your size. What do you think your chances are?

Or say you pick an option to lie.

PC: (Lie) You know, if you let me in for free I can tell you about the silk caravan I saw on my way here. It was heading towards Denerim and most of the escorts are either dead or exhausted from killing qunari raiders. If you let me through, I can make it worth your while by telling you where he is. Deal?*

Would this be associated with a skill check? Would your ability to skillfully BS people be tied to something like a "Manipulation" skill? I was kinda disappointed that there was only one social skill in Origins, Coercion.

Are these various "stances" that you can pick out very common in dialogue? Are there usually two or more different tones that you can take for a certain line? Obviously, some stances are not applicable in certain situations - you aren't going to be able to flirt with your mabari, for instance. Or at least, I hope not.

* For extra fun, having explored the place in question already, a successful lie would result in the PC leading the bandits to a qunari labour camp for heathens.

[Taiyama]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Dick Delaware wrote...

 Alright, I'm aware that so far, we're going to have ME style dialogue. From what a few posters here mentioned in a magazine preview, options will also include a general tone (i.e. sarcastic, aggressive) to convey how a certain line of dialogue will be spoken to an NPC.

So, from what I understand, it'll be sort of a mix of Mass Effect's paraphrasing, and Alpha Protocol's "stance system", where you are given the gist of what Hawke will say in addition to how Hawke will say it. Will this be the case for the dialogue system? Devs, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

If this is the case, then I think it's very good for this kind of dialogue system. That way, you don't get the redundancy of hearing every line of dialogue over again, but at the same time, it isn't vague and doesn't give as much of a discrepancy between the dialogue prompt and what is actually being said, allowing things to be clearer for the player.

I haven't played Alpha Protocol yet, so I can't compare the DA2 system with theirs. However, it looks like you've got the gist of the new system. You have a wheel like Mass Effect's, and when you move over a selection, you get an icon in the center of the wheel that indicates the intent of the player line: Flirty, violent, sarcastic, etc.

I'm...cautiously optimistic now. I'm still disappointed over the voiced PC thing but what I'm feeling now is a far cry from the abject despair I was feeling earlier.

[-Semper-]

it's like the old system but instead to read you just pick the paraphrased sentence. to get a better idea how the npc will react to your paraphrase there are symbols in the center of the wheel. you can not choose a "stance" and mix it with another line, they are linked already.

from time to time there will be a skill check for certain lines. bioware is not very well know for these kind of things. former black isle studios (now obsidian) are much better with skill checks. likely it will be similar to dragon age.

Modifié par -Semper-, 11 juillet 2010 - 01:21 .

[Dick Delaware]

I know, BioWare games suck at skill checks. It's probably wishful thinking on my part. I'm certainly not expecting something like Mask of the Betrayer, where you'd routinely Bluff/Lie, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Lore, Charisma, Wisdom and hell, Underwater Basket Weaving options, sometimes even in the same set of dialogue. So you could respond to an NPC by either BSing them, getting chummy, using personal magnetism, drawing on your vast historical knowledge, using your zen-like insight into the meaning of life, or by donning a snorkel and making a basket for them while submerged in water. Lots of options.

[Teredan]

A little disappointing if it is the mass effect dialoge system unchanged. I expect in a dragon age game more dialogue depth than the good/neutral/evil answer possibility.
But maybe someone might want to clarify me on this.

Modifié par Teredan, 11 juillet 2010 - 01:30 .

[JamieCOTC]

Does this mean the Awakening dialog system has been abandoned?

[Blastback]

My one worry about the dialoge wheel is that it might limit the number of dialoge options we have, sometimes in ME we only have 3 options. And most of the more amusing lines are also renegade. I want to be able to play a genuine good noble hero, who makes amusing quips.

[tmp7704]

Blastback wrote...

My one worry about the dialoge wheel is that it might limit the number of dialoge options we have, sometimes in ME we only have 3 options. And most of the more amusing lines are also renegade. I want to be able to play a genuine good noble hero, who makes amusing quips.

A ME-like wheel allows up to 6 options and coincidentally this is also the max amount of dialogue options it's possible to have at the same time in the regular dialogue system in DA:O, so it shouldn't result in reduction in this area, at least on the technical ground.

[Blastback]

tmp7704 wrote...

Blastback wrote...

My one worry about the dialoge wheel is that it might limit the number of dialoge options we have, sometimes in ME we only have 3 options. And most of the more amusing lines are also renegade. I want to be able to play a genuine good noble hero, who makes amusing quips.

A ME-like wheel allows up to 6 options and coincidentally this is also the max amount of dialogue options it's possible to have at the same time in the regular dialogue system in DA:O, so it shouldn't result in reduction in this area, at least on the technical ground.

Okay. 
Note to self, read less of the gloom and doom stuff.  you actually start to buy into it.