76 réponses à ce sujet

[asaiasai]

I have had this situation with Morrigan/Flemeth tossing aroun din my head for a few days now and the only thing that makes sence is as the title says. I know what you folks are going to say, but i will make my case below.

1) Not possible as both characters appear on the screen at the same time.
True enough but do you even interact with either more than conversation? Flemeth/Morrigan is a being of great power, would it be a stretch to consider that either one is a manifestation of pure will power?

2) No female to female option for romance with Morrigan.
This one is a bit more difficult to explain aside from the "she don't swing that way argument". My take from Flemeth/Morrigan's personality is that this woman is a nonsence type, sex without the chance of procreation would be pointless.

3)The Grimware says that Flemeth steals the bodies of her daughters.
Does the Grimware say that? How do you know you can not read it, it is a gift and so you are reliant on Flemeth/Morrigan telling you that is what it says.

4) I killed Flemeth.
Did you? See the Grimware says that Flemeth steals the bodies of her daughters according to Morrigan, and she is quite specific that YOU have to go fight Flemeth while she is not there or Flemeth might jump into her body. Since my supposition is that at any give time either Morrigan or Flemeth is nothing more than a manifestation of will power while they are both in the same place, it is much simpler to say that Morrigan has to stay at camp during the Flemeth fight.

5) If Flemeth/Morrigan was only interested in Allister why save both you and him after the battle?
What better way to ensure the survival of a Grey Warden that to provide a second Grey Warden to watch his back.

6)Why send Morrigan along with the Grey Wardens why not just breed him right after?
This one is tricky again but what better way to test the blood line of a throughbred that to watch it while it runs a few races and see how it does. It is much simpler to be involved and watch as a member of the team than to try and spy on the team from a distance, it is less suspicious this way.

7)Why is it necessary to fight and kill Flemeth for her diary?
Flemeth/Morrigan is a being of great power and you just do not walk in and rifle through her unmentionables drawer without some sort of repercussions. This way again is less suspicious, and the party now thinks Flemeth is gone, and will stop worring about her. If you just walk in and walk out Flemeth would want her book back. The diary contains information that could be used against her and this is something you would want to keep close.

In the end Flemeth/Morrigan has always stated it is a game, what better wat to inject and quite possibly steer the outcome by becoming a participant in the contest, especially considering no one really knows you are in it.

Anyway this has been rattling around in my brain for a few days now and i am curious as to how many of you feel the same or even different. The last thing i would want is for the folks at Bioware to say is "Scrap everything we have been working on for the last few months some poncy little git has spoiled our suprise!". What do you think i am interested.

Asai

[KnightofPhoenix]

Possible. Unlikely. But possible.

If Morrigan is indeed Flement and vice versa, that doesn't explain how it shapeshifts human forms, while it was said that humans cannot shapeshift into other humans (or you can't shapeshift into different forms of the same specie).



And while it is possible, it would really kill the humaness in Morrigan, thus ruin the character very badly. And it would make me feel too pathetic for actually being sad about her departure.

[Reiella]

s/Grimware/Grimoire
Although to be fair, I recall an option where Flemeth gives you the book and you lie to Morrigan about killing Flemeth.  Doesn't really change the suppositions, Even when you do beat down the witch, Morrigan still suspects it's not the end of her.

End Game Spoiler [Wraa]

Spoiler

What is interesting to me, is that the story of Flemeth's immortality is exactly the same of the Archdemons.

[dewayne31]

umm i think your right in some way. but you foorgot they do appear on screen together at the beginning of the of game

[Curry Noodles]

Well, one problem with 4 is that we know another creature the jumps into a new body after dying (archdemon). So I think it's pretty likely that is genuinely why Morrigan didn't want to come along for the battle.

[Marik333]

Wouldn't it be interesting if Flemeth was somehow related to whatever the Old Gods are? Some sort of uberspirit that can survive between bodies, and binds itself to a living host for a limited amount of time (until the body dies). Trippy.



Didn't the voice actress of Flemeth say that Flemeth "uses her daughters"? She was euphamistic about it, but after doing the quest, it's pretty clear what she's talking about.

[Dragoro21]

Wishes people would follow dont post spoilers in the topic rule.

[Twitchmonkey]

Dragoro21 wrote...

Wishes people would follow dont post spoilers in the topic rule.

Not really a spoiler. Something similar to this is part of the black grimoire quest, but as far as I know, nothing in the game claims that Flemeth is Morrigan.

As for the claim, while it is interesting, I just can't recall anything in either of their dialouge's that would suggest this was true.

Modifié par Twitchmonkey, 10 novembre 2009 - 06:38 .

[Vinditater]

Morrigan = lame spider.

Flemeth = Baller Dragon of Doom.



If they are the same, I should be able to shapechange into Smaug and beat down random gangs of bandits trying to steal my lootz.

[Dragoro21]

Twitchmonkey wrote...

Dragoro21 wrote...

Wishes people would follow dont post spoilers in the topic rule.

Not really a spoiler. Something similar to this is part of the black grimoire quest, but as far as I know, nothing in the game claims that Flemeth is Morrigan.

As for the claim, while it is interesting, I just can't recall anything in either of their dialouge's that would suggest this was true.

Yeah its a kinda sorta thing. Morrigan is supposedly just a vesell that Flemeth is waiting to take over. Thats why Morrigan sends ya on a quest to kill flemeth.

[Narial]

Marik333 wrote...

Wouldn't it be interesting if Flemeth was somehow related to whatever the Old Gods are? Some sort of uberspirit that can survive between bodies, and binds itself to a living host for a limited amount of time (until the body dies). Trippy.

Didn't the voice actress of Flemeth say that Flemeth "uses her daughters"? She was euphamistic about it, but after doing the quest, it's pretty clear what she's talking about.

she's half goa'uld, half ascended ancient bent on galactic domination!

[Boeresmurf]

well i scared the **** out when flemeth went all dragon like on me.. but its kinda bad morrigan cant urn in a drake atleast... only bzz wasps and other boring animals.. though bereskarn looks cool aswell

[Kyero]

asaiasai wrote...



2) No female to female option for romance with Morrigan.
This one is a bit more difficult to explain aside from the "she don't swing that way argument". My take from Flemeth/Morrigan's personality is that this woman is a nonsence type, sex without the chance of procreation would be pointless

lol another one? Man.. people need to pay attention more to the story.

and what does Morrigan's sexuality have to do anything with "Sex without procreation"  She simply doesn't swing that way.. is that too much to realize? does every female in every game gotta be Bi or gay? i sware its gettin ****ing annoying.

Morrigan is NOT flemeth...

[prmsntrcrps]

I'd like to think that morrigan has a free will of her own, because otherwise the romance would not make much sense. Is it all a ploy by Flemeth? Why then risk it by being so emotionally broken? It would be alot safer to just play along all the way instead of going "OMG LETS END THIS ITS NOT LOGICAL TO LOVE"



Flemeth seems to be intelligent and motivated enough to be able to act and manipulate her way from the start to the end without letting her emotions get in the way like that - even if she is the one that actually falls in love with the PC.

[internaty inmortelaty]

i just killed flemmeth not only because or morigan request but aslo bucause femmeth takes life that arent her to claim and dus must be banish to hell for high triason.

[cooldevo]

Dragoro21 wrote...

Wishes people would follow dont post spoilers in the topic rule.

Ummmmm... the section of the forums you are in are called "Dragon Age: Origins Spoilers Forum "  Meaning spoilers are allowed.  If you don't want spoilers stick to "Dragon Age: Origins General Discussion" where spoilers are not supposed to be.

But yes, I've had several questions about the Morrigan/Flemeth story as well.  Mostly what has already been covered.  That's what I like about this game.  Most of the endings don't wrap up nicely with a "happily ever after" all the strings are now tied off and everything is fully revealed.

Modifié par cooldevo, 10 novembre 2009 - 02:49 .

[Ariella]

Actually they do appear on the screen together at the very beginning during the Warden's Archive/Joining quest in the Wilds.

[Kyero]

Ariella wrote...

Actually they do appear on the screen together at the very beginning during the Warden's Archive/Joining quest in the Wilds.

thus why I said people need to pay attention XD

[RazorrX]

The flemeth/Morrigan thing is (IMO) a foreshadowing of the Archdemon/Warden issue.



SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS







I mean it... Spoilers . . .







Last warning: SPOILERS







Flemeth possesses her child when she dies (or right before) and is reborn. While she never fully dies, it is easier for her to be reborn via her own bloodline. She mates and produces a child who grows up beside her, sharing a life force. When she needs to be reborn she just takes over. Easy to do. IF she is killed and her child is not near, she will eventually possess someone nearby, perhaps an unborn child so that she can destroy its life force and thus gain a new body, to begin again (Hunting down the wayward 'daughter' to reclaim that portion of her soul.)



Then later you find out that as a warden it has to be you to kill the archdemon as if anyone else did then its soul would jump to the nearest darkspawn, only to be reborn as the archdemon again. But since you now have the taint in you, and are a hybrid, it will jump to you (taint that it needs) and since you have a soul already, both are cancelled, thus both die. This is why Morrigan comes to you with the plan. The baby is how flemeth lives if her daughter dies/flees before she can be taken over. Thus it would work with you.

[Hubb-]

Interesting idea RazorX but, the game doesn't harp on the fact that you or Allister need to land the killing blow. Subsequently, neither I or Allister landed the killing blow.

[Kyero]

RazorrX wrote...

The flemeth/Morrigan thing is (IMO) a foreshadowing of the Archdemon/Warden issue.

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS



I mean it... Spoilers . . .



Last warning: SPOILERS



Flemeth possesses her child when she dies (or right before) and is reborn. While she never fully dies, it is easier for her to be reborn via her own bloodline. She mates and produces a child who grows up beside her, sharing a life force. When she needs to be reborn she just takes over. Easy to do. IF she is killed and her child is not near, she will eventually possess someone nearby, perhaps an unborn child so that she can destroy its life force and thus gain a new body, to begin again (Hunting down the wayward 'daughter' to reclaim that portion of her soul.)

Then later you find out that as a warden it has to be you to kill the archdemon as if anyone else did then its soul would jump to the nearest darkspawn, only to be reborn as the archdemon again. But since you now have the taint in you, and are a hybrid, it will jump to you (taint that it needs) and since you have a soul already, both are cancelled, thus both die. This is why Morrigan comes to you with the plan. The baby is how flemeth lives if her daughter dies/flees before she can be taken over. Thus it would work with you.

awww, its cute to see people come up with these bogus ideas instead of reading and paying attention to the lore.

[MBirkhofer]

Marik333 wrote...

Wouldn't it be interesting if Flemeth was somehow related to whatever the Old Gods are? Some sort of uberspirit that can survive between bodies, and binds itself to a living host for a limited amount of time (until the body dies). Trippy.

Didn't the voice actress of Flemeth say that Flemeth "uses her daughters"? She was euphamistic about it, but after doing the quest, it's pretty clear what she's talking about.

What I think is also interesting is how this relates to Wynne.
Is her Faith spirit similar?  Will we meet the spirit again, with memories of Wynne in Dragonage2, or dlc?

[RazorrX]

Hubb- wrote...

Interesting idea RazorX but, the game doesn't harp on the fact that you or Allister need to land the killing blow. Subsequently, neither I or Allister landed the killing blow.

For the Arch demon to die? yes a grey warden had to OR you had to have Morrigan have a child with the Taint for it to possess.

Game was VERY VERY Specific about that.

you are told that it HAS to be a Grey Warden who lands killing blow.  Someone who has undergone the joining.  IF you have Loghain, he is put through the Joining.  It also tells WHY it has to be someone with the Joining.

Then Morrigan offers you her deal.  The child would have the taint, but no soul, thus when the archdemon possessed it, it would live.

[RazorrX]

Kyero wrote...

awww, its cute to see people come up with these bogus ideas instead of reading and paying attention to the lore.

I did read and fully understood, maybe YOU need reading lessons?

Fact: The original Blight was never ended until the Grey Wardens.  The grey wardens won BECAUSE they are infected with the Taint.  Until that time, the Archdemon could not be killed.

You are told this in Redcliff prior to the final battle.  You are also told that it MUST be a Grey Warden to kill the Arch Demon or it will return.  Thus the Grey Warden Motto: "In Death, Sacrifice"

Fact:  The Arch Demon when it dies will posses the nearest Darkspawn to be reborn. (Told to you In game)

Fact: The Arch Demon can possess Darkspawn and live because they do not have a soul. (Told to you in game)

Fact: The Arch Demon Will attempt to possess a Grey Warden because if they land killing blow THEY are closest and they have the taint.  The demon will die because a Grey Warden has a soul, and the 2 souls cancel each other. (Told to you in game)

Fact:  Morrigan tells you that it HAS To be a child with the taint (Thus her need for a Grey warden) in order for the arch demon to possess and still live.  (Unborn child has no soul).  She can not just bang anyone and it work, it had to be someone who has undergone the joining. (told to you in game)

[Hubb-]

Alright Razor, perhaps we are talking about two different things here. I was referring to Flemeth and not the Arch demon in my post.