296 réponses à ce sujet

[Kalfear]

Well Ive read all the threads and the responce to Bioware seems pretty clear to me

DA:O good
ME2 bad

People dont want the watered down linear story telling game play of ME2.
They want to explore, adventure, build relationships, impact communities like they did in DA:O.

Personally I think the complaints about the VO of the hero over blown but it just goes back to people wanting to be the hero, not read and hear about the hero in the game.

What your seeing here is where all those people disappointed with ME2 went.
They cut their loses and came to DA forum where they hoped real RPGs were going to be made still.

Bioware, if DA2 truely is not ME2.5, you need to come out and say that CLEARLY!
If it is, you need to come out and say that clearly as well.
Quit playing with your customer bases emotions.

Right or wrong these players/customers are dedicated to the products you use to make. If you truely are moving away from making those products, then be the bigger person and tell everyone that upfront. Dont lie to them like the ME2 developers did saying they getting the same product as before with minor tweaks only to have everything they loved gutted and destroyed.

All this angst goes away if Bioware simply explains what they meant in terms everyone can understand and not forced to draw their own conclussions from.

People probably should wait for more information but they are scared right now.
Bioware also shouldnt be releaseing little tidbits that people can read into, right or wrongly.

In the end, personally I hope to god this not ME2.5 and is the intellectual continuation of the Dragon Age Story. Hawk doesnt bug me, VO doesnt bug me, but the other things Bioware have said bug the hell outta me.
Remember, Christina Norman, with a straight face, PROMISED all the ME1 fans that ME2 would not be a drastic change and they were only making small tweaks to the system when in fact, ME2 and ME1 are only simular because of their name.

Bioware, you need to come out and tell people that is or isnt the case here.
ME2 was a intellectual flop for many of your hard core, life long fans and they not interested in that game style replacing the Dragon Age Franchise as well!

Anyways, thats all I got to say

[Khayness]

We are the minority here. Killstreaks and headshots > THAC0 and AC

[Vayrand]

BioWare didn't have the guts to stick with what worked. Why change something that was so successful already? No wonder I've been slowly moving away to Blizzard these days. At least they are open with what they want to change and don't hold back any information.

[MFCell]

The rage is here because it's a pretty obvious sellout. No one expected nor requested this as far as the core DA fanbase is concerned. No one. Like, NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON. The ONLY reason they have AT ALL for doing this is to close the gap between the ME and DA fanbases, in an attempt to get more money.

[-Semper-]

Vayrand wrote...

No wonder I've been slowly moving away to Blizzard these days.

once there was a time where blizz was brilliant. now they're getting worse and worse. they already messed up stacraft2. i got a bad feeling about diablo 3...

Modifié par -Semper-, 11 juillet 2010 - 01:18 .

[Khayness]

MFCell wrote...

The ONLY reason they have AT ALL for doing this is to close the gap between the ME and DA fanbases, in an attempt to get more money.

I'm pretty sure that those two fanbases are extremely close together.

[Ecael]

Vayrand wrote...

No wonder I've been slowly moving away to Blizzard these days. At least they are open with what they want to change and don't hold back any information.

You do realize why Blizzard was considering forcing almost everyone to post on their forums with their real names, right?

[Anathemic]

I agree with the OP we need BioWare to actually reassure us else we are all going to keep arguing till the world ends

[Khayness]

Nerd Rage > Real IDs

Whining is power, as I shamelessly stolen and altered that quote from PS:T said.

[alickar]

i like ME2 so does G4

[MFCell]

Khayness wrote...

MFCell wrote...

The ONLY reason they have AT ALL for doing this is to close the gap between the ME and DA fanbases, in an attempt to get more money.

I'm pretty sure that those two fanbases are extremely close together.

But they are not the same fanbases.  There are vast and key differences.  There are plenty of DnD nuts who loved DA and have never heard of ME, while oppositely, plenty of Halo fans have beaten ME 1 and 2, without batting an eye at DA.

As an example, my room mate who is a DnD fan, played DA and said it finally made him feel like he was actually playing a DnD game.  My buddy from my WoW guild couldn't get into DA, but has maxed levels in ME 1 and 2.

They are not the same fanbases, there is just alot of cross over.  My point, is that Bioware is trying to close that gap 'till they can't see it.

Or, selling out.  They are in it for the dollars now, and they used to be one of the last holdouts of great game makers. What WOULD they do if a quarterly finacial report shows losses in stock value? This is 2010, after all.

Modifié par MFCell, 11 juillet 2010 - 01:25 .

[ITSSEXYTIME]

It has nothing to do with more money as far as I can see.





Bioware wanted to tell a new story a certain way that they haven't done before: Namely Hawke's story. Telling this story requires them to make Hawke a relatively predefined character and so they decided to include the voice over and dialog wheel system that is used in other games that tell their story with predefined characters. (Alpha protocol, Mass Effect)



Personally, I would have preferred they told a different story: one that didn't require a predefined character. (Save them for the books I say!) However, this is what they decided to do. It has nothing to do with trying to merge the ME2 and DA fanbases or selling out.



I would have preferred an experience more like DA:O's, but I am glad Bioware is trying to develop a new narrative than they usually use in their games as one of my biggest complaints with Bioware has been that they always used a similar "structure" to the game and the way it is told. (they're also notorious for terrible looking headgear and recolouring a single model 300+ times per game)

[-Semper-]

Ecael wrote...

You do realize why Blizzard was considering forcing almost everyone to post on their forums with their real names, right?

at least blizz fears their fanbase (or listen to them) and canceled this "feature". seems like you missed lots of information^^

[Ecael]

Khayness wrote...

Nerd Rage > Real IDs

Whining is power, as I shamelessly stolen and altered that quote from PS:T said.

No, invasion of privacy > Real IDs.

Also, judging by the whining on these forums, I think a lot of people here would fit right in with all the World of Warcraft players whining about Blizzard catering to the casual gamers.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

[Ecael]

-Semper- wrote...

Ecael wrote...

You do realize why Blizzard was considering forcing almost everyone to post on their forums with their real names, right?

at least blizz fears their fanbase (or listen to them) and canceled this "feature". seems like you missed lots of information^^

considering

Seems like you missed that word.

[Khayness]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

but I am glad Bioware is trying to develop a new narrative than they usually use in their games as one of my biggest complaints with Bioware has been that they always used a similar "structure" to the game and the way it is told.

It has worked so far (hell, they have even polished it to perfection), why fix something that isn't broken?

[In Exile]

Kalfear wrote...

Well Ive read all the threads and the responce to Bioware seems pretty clear to me

DA:O good
ME2 bad

People dont want the watered down linear story telling game play of ME2.

DA:O wasn`t linear. News to me. Forced Origin - Ostagar - Dalish/Dwarves/Mages/Redcliffe - Landsmeet - Final battle is pretty linear. No more or less linear than Eden Prime - Citadel - Virmire/Feros/Noveria/Theron - Endgame.

I do not get the complaint at all, because y`see, DA:O was linear. IF ME was, anyway, since Bioware has the same formula they constantly use. Hell, there`s even an article where they give their 20/80/20 rule, with the 80 being the wide-open world they then funnel toward the endg

They want to explore, adventure, build relationships, impact communities like they did in DA:O.

Personally I think the complaints about the VO of the hero over blown but it just goes back to people wanting to be the hero, not read and hear about the hero in the game.

You may also be shocked to learn, but some of us think feel like we are far more the hero in ME and ME2 than in DA:O. Shocking, I know. My silent puppet was a bit player in DA:O, but Shepard drives ME, and I get to be Shepard.

In the end, personally I hope to god this not ME2.5 and is the intellectual continuation of the Dragon Age Story. Hawk doesnt bug me, VO doesnt bug me, but the other things Bioware have said bug the hell outta me.
Remember, Christina Norman, with a straight face, PROMISED all the ME1 fans that ME2 would not be a drastic change and they were only making small tweaks to the system when in fact, ME2 and ME1 are only simular because of their name.

ME2 was the same game. It`s just that what peopel saw as major features, Bioware didn`t. ME2 had Shepard and the dialogue wheel. It had the same story structure. It refined gameplay. I get it - some people loathe the gameplay changes hardcore. But to say Bioware misled fans because of what fans thought was important, well, I disagree.

[Tiuwaz]

I liked ME2 but I think that ME mechanics have no place in the DA due to the different style they established with DA:O.

It boils down to 1st person vs 3rd person narrator style. You'd get a similar outcry on the ME forums if they revealed the fact that ME3 will feature a silent protagonist and 1st person narrator style suddenly.

Its what they effectively did with DA2.

Modifié par Tiuwaz, 11 juillet 2010 - 01:31 .

[Merci357]

Ecael wrote...

Vayrand wrote...

No wonder I've been slowly moving away to Blizzard these days. At least they are open with what they want to change and don't hold back any information.

You do realize why Blizzard was considering forcing almost everyone to post on their forums with their real names, right?

The "outrage" about the Real ID is one thing. However, Blizzard is quite upfront about their games, and balance/gameplay changes - and explaining the reason behind. It's like everywhere - I don't necessarily agree, but given a reason, I can understand why it was done.

[Tooneyman]

Ecael wrote...

Khayness wrote...

Nerd Rage > Real IDs

Whining is power, as I shamelessly stolen and altered that quote from PS:T said.

No, invasion of privacy > Real IDs.

Also, judging by the whining on these forums, I think a lot of people here would fit right in with all the World of Warcraft players whining about Blizzard catering to the casual gamers.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

Agreed there is a fine line between whining and debate. Debate call for contructive observation and thought. Whining, is just this.

[WingsandRings]

But if they did exactly what we expected, then everyone would be mad about THAT. "Where's the ingenuity, Bioware? Where's the creativity and immersion? You're doing something a bunch of your fan boys could think up on their own? LAME."

The fact is, we know pretty much nothing. Nothing. NOTHING. about this game. So to say that DA2 is just ME2.5 off of "5 things about Hawke" is ridonkulous.

Besides, I remember when DA:O first came out and everyone was like "WHAT? No talking PC? You create that awesome system for ME and now you're backtracking to the outdated KOTOR/JE way of doing things? SCANDAL SCANDAL *frothing crazily*"

Now that they've implemented it, everyone's mad about THAT.  Lame.

Modifié par WingsandRings, 11 juillet 2010 - 01:32 .

[Anathemic]

Tooneyman wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Khayness wrote...

Nerd Rage > Real IDs

Whining is power, as I shamelessly stolen and altered that quote from PS:T said.

No, invasion of privacy > Real IDs.

Also, judging by the whining on these forums, I think a lot of people here would fit right in with all the World of Warcraft players whining about Blizzard catering to the casual gamers.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

Agreed there is a fine line between whining and debate. Debate call for contructive observation and thought. Whining, is just this.

Child nu- y'knwo what.. nvm..

[JackFace]

The rage is here because "here" is the internet - plain and simple. If anything ever changes about something, people hate it. Most of the complaints don't even make sense.

This for example:
People dont want the watered down linear story telling game play of ME2.
They want to explore, adventure, build relationships, impact communities like they did in DA:O.

Personally I think the complaints about the VO of the hero over blown but it just goes back to people wanting to be the hero, not read and hear about the hero in the game.

Where the heck does this even come from? What we know is that Hawke has a last name, is human, and was a refugee at some point. There is absolutely nothing that would even remotely suggest that people won't be able to "explore, adventure, build relationships, and impact communities like they did in DA:O." Nothing. And this silliness about reading and hearing about the hero in the game? What? BioWare makes games in which you're given choices that you choose in different scenarios. Now, in DA2, they're voice. That's the only difference.

[Ecael]

Merci357 wrote...

The "outrage" about the Real ID is one thing. However, Blizzard is quite upfront about their games, and balance/gameplay changes - and explaining the reason behind. It's like everywhere - I don't necessarily agree, but given a reason, I can understand why it was done.

Blizzard has teams dedicated to balancing their games. Their specialty was RTS and top-down multiplayer action RPG; now, it's the MMORPG. BioWare has never had to worry about balance since they've always focused on single-player.

I guarantee you, anyone who runs to Blizzard in an attempt to "stick it to BioWare" will soon find themselves whining on the forum about how Blizzard doesn't listen to the true RPG fans and is targeting the casual gamer. They will also accuse Blizzard of being a slave to Activision.

Modifié par Ecael, 11 juillet 2010 - 01:31 .

[Kalfear]

Vayrand wrote...

BioWare didn't have the guts to stick with what worked. Why change something that was so successful already? No wonder I've been slowly moving away to Blizzard these days. At least they are open with what they want to change and don't hold back any information.

Yeah, Deus Ex3 has been looking really exciting to me I gotta admit

I try to get excited about TOR but everytime anyone shows any sort of emotion over there the mods infraction you so its best to just avoid the place!

LOL, I cant help wondering if TOR doesnt reach the subscription numbers they want internally how many people will look at the forum mods as part of the problem! Seriously, I got a infraction for calling a guy a troll. Thats all I said. Nothing more! That forum could have millions posting but its got a rep that any passion will be punished.

Anyways, back to topic. I gotta admit I been looking for a replacement from Bioware as well after ME2 and how they treated those not happy with the game.

I only have enough free money for a few games a year and in the past would just put money aside for Bioware games with out question.
BG, NWN, KotOR, JE, ME, DA:O bought them all with out question or thought. Not buying them would have been, well unthinkable to me!
Books? Sold
Comics? No question

Then ME2 came out and I saw how the NEW Bioware was acting, dismissing concerns (no matter how shared they were across the web).

LOL, you know I just saw a poster that point blank ignored the cries of disappointment across the web about ME2 say now there are cries of joy about DA2. Nice cherry picking when you listen to the web people. And how about a link to all these web sites cheering this new direction for DA2 cause I gotta say, most of the feedback im hearing is worried, VERY WORRIED about this being influenced by ME2.

Now this. I see the same posters bullying people here (not Gaider and Devs) that were bullying posters upset about ME2. Same "statements" being made.

Really dont like what Bioware has turned into to be honest but im still holding out hope that the game will be great! They still have some great wroters and talent but their attitude and direction and well feeling of family has changed in the past few years! Definately not the same company that put out BG, NWN, KotOR, JE, or even ME1. That was a different Bioware.

As I said in my post, just wish they would say it simple and straight forward.