296 réponses à ce sujet

[Khayness]

JackFace wrote...

Khayness wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Role-playing <_< does no one understand this?

Maybe the definition was changed to "select an option from a few" while we weren't looking.

That's all you do in DA:O. 

I'm afraid we are running in circles here.

[JackFace]

Right. I guess so long as we all understand that voicing doesn't limit roleplaying, we're all good.

[Anathemic]

JackFace wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

JackFace wrote...

But you don't actually control the way your character says it. In DA:O, you said something and believed you said it in a certain manner. Usually, the writers were able to make it to where the NPCs would react believably to whatever tone you imagined yourself saying it in. As I stated, there were times when I imagined my character saying something in a certain way but was shown that he said it in a manner I didn't intend for him to say it in. With DA2, you'll be able to choose the way your character says what it says, instead of just hoping it says it in the tone you imagine it will.

As for the backgrounds - no one has any idea how much control over the backstory we're going to get. We know that Hawke was a survivor of the blight. Beyond that, we could get any number of choices, as we did in ME1. We also don't know what the dialogue wheel will be like. Already we know that there will be a difference in the ability to select your tone. Assuming it will be exactly like ME when it's already different and improved doesn't make sense.

To the first paragraph: Role-playing, you are role-playing the character, saying that you hope and believe is frankly and insult to the definition of role-playing. It seems now that modern role-players need a handicap to know what's going on when your character says something <_<

To the second paragraph: Honestly, how many dialogue tone options can you put on the wheel format and still make it feel smooth? You can't put sarcastic, negative, and evil in on the same side, because they are all essentially what we call 'bad'. In a classic wheel format we need a 'good' 'neutral' and 'bad' side and there's really no room for any varaitions of them. Not to mention is basically paraphrasing what we are going to say.

Seriously? It's not insulting to anyone. All I did was point out the fact that you don't know the tone in which your character speaks in DA:O. Usually, you're best guess will do, but the character still only says it in a certain way - the way the programmers designed it to. You are unable to select the tone in which you say things. In DA2, you'll be able to select the tone. This is an improvement.

For your second paragraph: Honetsly, neither you or I know. BioWare is using a dialogue sphere - that's all we know. We don't know how many choices there will be or how they'll arrange them. Just assuming the worst isn't the same thing as having a good argument against it. As well, we don't know if it will be paraphrasing or whole sentences. ME was based heavily on morality and DA was not. That suggests that it simply won't be good/bad.

Role-play, role-playing roleplaying... From your viewpoint, it seems that you must have everything handicapped, you must have this paraphrased, you must know that this is your character, you must know that this is your tone and nothing else. Dude,  it's role-playing we have 'freeedom' to choose what our chracter is, what the character's story is, what the character's personality is, what the character's speech is. DA:O gave us this.
Story? Origins
Personality? Role-play
Speech? Role-play

Now DA2:
Story: One, refugee fro mLothering
Personality? Limited to versions of 'Good' 'Bad' and 'Neutral'
Speech? Voice-acted

On the Dialogue wheel, for it to work it need s a 'Good' 'Neutral' and 'Bad' on each response choice, it can't be another way. If I had all 'Bad' on one side but I want my character to be 'Good' that's a nono, vice versa for making a character 'Bad' and choice were 'Good'. We don't know the exact details but I 100% garuntee that there will be a 'Good' 'BAd' 'Neutral' covering half the wheel and the other half 'Investigate' or some version of it.

[Riona45]

Anathemic wrote...
Personality? Limited to versions of 'Good' 'Bad' and 'Neutral'

Sorry, but you don't know this and therefore shouldn't declare it as a fact.

Modifié par Riona45, 11 juillet 2010 - 02:59 .

[Khayness]

JackFace wrote...

Right. I guess so long as we all understand that voicing doesn't limit roleplaying, we're all good.

If they invent a voice synthesizer type-in gameplay with a real AI capable of understanding human behaviour which responses equally, then nope, it doesn't.

Modifié par Khayness, 11 juillet 2010 - 03:02 .

[Anathemic]

Riona45 wrote...

Anathemic wrote...
Personality? Limited to versions of 'Good' 'Bad' and 'Neutral'

Sorry, but you don't know this and therefore shouldn't declare it as a fact.

That's the basic dialogue wheel for you
Right side: Good -Top  Neutral - Middle  Bad - Bottom
Left Side: Heroic -Top   Investigate - Middle   Ruthless - Bottom

[Riona45]

Anathemic wrote...



That's the basic dialogue wheel for you
Right side: Good -Top  Neutral - Middle  Bad - Bottom
Left Side: Heroic -Top   Investigate - Middle   Ruthless - Bottom

You don't know how the wheel will be implemented into DA2 and therefore shouldn't declare that you do.

[JackFace]

Role-play, role-playing roleplaying... From your viewpoint, it
seems that you must have everything handicapped, you must have this
paraphrased, you must know that this is your character, you must know
that this is your tone and nothing else.

I don't even know how to respond to this.

Dude,  it's role-playing we have 'freeedom' to choose what our chracter
is, what the character's story is, what the character's personality is,
what the character's speech is. DA:O gave us this.
Story? Origins
Personality? Role-play
Speech? Role-play

Story? Picking one of six predisposed adventures to play through. They have no actual bearing for your character's personality - it's just showing you a snippet of your imediate background depending on where you came from. You have no idea what the intro-phase of DA2 will be.

There is nothing to suggest you won't be able to choose your personality in this game and, like I've said, you'll be able to choose your speech to better suit your character than you were able to in DA:O.

[Anathemic]

Riona45 wrote...

Anathemic wrote...



That's the basic dialogue wheel for you
Right side: Good -Top  Neutral - Middle  Bad - Bottom
Left Side: Heroic -Top   Investigate - Middle   Ruthless - Bottom

You don't know how the wheel will be implemented into DA2 and therefore shouldn't declare that you do.

I 100% garuntee it will be like this, if I'm wrong, well good for you, if I'm right, well I was right

[Khayness]

JackFace wrote...

Role-play, role-playing roleplaying... From your viewpoint, it
seems that you must have everything handicapped, you must have this
paraphrased, you must know that this is your character, you must know
that this is your tone and nothing else.

I don't even know how to respond to this.

Dude,  it's role-playing we have 'freeedom' to choose what our chracter
is, what the character's story is, what the character's personality is,
what the character's speech is. DA:O gave us this.
Story? Origins
Personality? Role-play
Speech? Role-play

Story? Picking one of six predisposed adventures to play through. They have no actual bearing for your character's personality - it's just showing you a snippet of your imediate background depending on where you came from. You have no idea what the intro-phase of DA2 will be.

There is nothing to suggest you won't be able to choose your personality in this game and, like I've said, you'll be able to choose your speech to better suit your character than you were able to in DA:O.

Riiiiiiiight, I think I get it where the misunderstanding comes from. As in choose Anathemic means *YOU* choose using your imagination rather than picking a prewritten option in the game.

[JackFace]

Bah! I should have known better.

[Khayness]

JackFace wrote...

Bah! I should have known better.

It's 5 AM here, please tell me you weren't sarcastic

[Anathemic]

JackFace wrote...

Role-play, role-playing roleplaying... From your viewpoint, it
seems that you must have everything handicapped, you must have this
paraphrased, you must know that this is your character, you must know
that this is your tone and nothing else.

I don't even know how to respond to this.

Dude,  it's role-playing we have 'freeedom' to choose what our chracter
is, what the character's story is, what the character's personality is,
what the character's speech is. DA:O gave us this.
Story? Origins
Personality? Role-play
Speech? Role-play

Story? Picking one of six predisposed adventures to play through. They have no actual bearing for your character's personality - it's just showing you a snippet of your imediate background depending on where you came from. You have no idea what the intro-phase of DA2 will be.

There is nothing to suggest you won't be able to choose your personality in this game and, like I've said, you'll be able to choose your speech to better suit your character than you were able to in DA:O.

Sorry i'm getting tired, forgive me if I'm not replying in a professional manner.

6 backgrounds are better than 1 and don't forget races, i'm an elf dalish or city I'm a second-class citizen, a dwarf I'm a victim of political schemes, i'm a human, my family died.
What I do know from DA2 is that I'm a human refugee from Lothering, that's already fact and that's one origin story, there's no I'm an elf, or I'm a dwarf, or i'm a human noble, no it's just human refugee.

In DA2 it's Hawke's personality, not yours, i said before all you can do is guide/steer Hawke, you can't make Hawke your own, because you are not Hawke.

[JackFace]

Khayness wrote...

JackFace wrote...

Role-play, role-playing roleplaying... From your viewpoint, it
seems that you must have everything handicapped, you must have this
paraphrased, you must know that this is your character, you must know
that this is your tone and nothing else.

I don't even know how to respond to this.

Dude,  it's role-playing we have 'freeedom' to choose what our chracter
is, what the character's story is, what the character's personality is,
what the character's speech is. DA:O gave us this.
Story? Origins
Personality? Role-play
Speech? Role-play

Story? Picking one of six predisposed adventures to play through. They have no actual bearing for your character's personality - it's just showing you a snippet of your imediate background depending on where you came from. You have no idea what the intro-phase of DA2 will be.

There is nothing to suggest you won't be able to choose your personality in this game and, like I've said, you'll be able to choose your speech to better suit your character than you were able to in DA:O.

Riiiiiiiight, I think I get it where the misunderstanding comes from. As in choose Anathemic means *YOU* choose using your imagination rather than picking a prewritten option in the game.

But you don't get to use your imagination to decide how your character says it. If we had that kind of technology, gaming would be on a whole other level. As it is, the writers and programmers of the game attatch a certain tone to the lines of dialogue you choose. There is no way to know or alter the manner in which your character says a line. It's just guessing and assuming.

[Anathemic]

Khayness wrote...

JackFace wrote...

Role-play, role-playing roleplaying... From your viewpoint, it
seems that you must have everything handicapped, you must have this
paraphrased, you must know that this is your character, you must know
that this is your tone and nothing else.

I don't even know how to respond to this.

Dude,  it's role-playing we have 'freeedom' to choose what our chracter
is, what the character's story is, what the character's personality is,
what the character's speech is. DA:O gave us this.
Story? Origins
Personality? Role-play
Speech? Role-play

Story? Picking one of six predisposed adventures to play through. They have no actual bearing for your character's personality - it's just showing you a snippet of your imediate background depending on where you came from. You have no idea what the intro-phase of DA2 will be.

There is nothing to suggest you won't be able to choose your personality in this game and, like I've said, you'll be able to choose your speech to better suit your character than you were able to in DA:O.

Riiiiiiiight, I think I get it where the misunderstanding comes from. As in choose Anathemic means *YOU* choose using your imagination rather than picking a prewritten option in the game.

Thank you

[Riona45]

Khayness wrote...

Riiiiiiiight, I think I get it where the misunderstanding comes from. As in choose Anathemic means *YOU* choose using your imagination rather than picking a prewritten option in the game.

That's funny because the dialogue in DA:O is prewritten, you don't get to say exactly what you want.

[Riona45]

Anathemic wrote...

6 backgrounds are better than 1 and don't forget races, i'm an elf dalish or city I'm a second-class citizen, a dwarf I'm a victim of political schemes, i'm a human, my family died.
What I do know from DA2 is that I'm a human refugee from Lothering, that's already fact and that's one origin story, there's no I'm an elf, or I'm a dwarf, or i'm a human noble, no it's just human refugee.

As usual, you forgot the mage.

In DA2 it's Hawke's personality, not yours, i said before all you can do is guide/steer Hawke, you can't make Hawke your own, because you are not Hawke.

LOL!  More like "I'm projecting, since I don't want to play Hawke, I could never get into the character and therefore neither could you."

Modifié par Riona45, 11 juillet 2010 - 03:16 .

[zahra]

Just a note to "some" posters who have taken a rather mean note in describing the speculators, complainers etc.



Nerd rage, complaining, whining or whatever you may call it stems out of passion. Passion for the game. A GAME. The characters are made out of pixels and they have made people cry, rage and get into nerddepression (a very special form of depression).



I dunno, I think if I was part of the dev team I would be more worried if the reaction was lukewarm or "Yeah, good for you." So to all the people who are pissing on the "whiners", keep in mind that this is a testament of the DA's greatness. We wouldn't be here arguing over every little detail if the game didn't matter.



So keep it in perspective. The complaining can be nasty, but not as nasty as plain rudeness towards people who are rooting for the same team you are on.

[Khayness]

JackFace wrote...

But you don't get to use your imagination to decide how your character says it. If we had that kind of technology, gaming would be on a whole other level. As it is, the writers and programmers of the game attatch a certain tone to the lines of dialogue you choose. There is no way to know or alter the manner in which your character says a line. It's just guessing and assuming.

Well I could imagine that my character is a nutjob and he shouts with CAPS on.

As in imagining ways how your character says it, I have a great example.

When Alistair is about to tell you he is the heir to the throne you can pick the "You are going to tell me you are an idiot" option. I've thought my PC is saying that in sarcastic manner, like in Alistair's witty and sarcastic style. But it was written in game as an insult. And lost approval.

Shame, he would've totally liked that joke.

[JackFace]

It's 5 AM here, please tell me you weren't sarcastic

Sorry, that was in response to: I 100% garuntee it will be like this, if I'm wrong, well good for you, if I'm right, well I was right

If that's what I'm arguing with, there's no point in talking.

6 backgrounds are better than 1 and don't forget races, i'm an elf
dalish or city I'm a second-class citizen, a dwarf I'm a victim of
political schemes, i'm a human, my family died.
What I do know from
DA2 is that I'm a human refugee from Lothering, that's already fact and
that's one origin story, there's no I'm an elf, or I'm a dwarf, or i'm
a human noble, no it's just human refugee.

You're right, you don't get to choose your race. Right now, you don't have any idea what decisions you'll make in regard to Hawke's backstory. His being a refugee isn't his entire backstory - there's plenty more that the player can decide.

In DA2 it's Hawke's
personality, not yours, i said before all you can do is guide/steer
Hawke, you can't make Hawke your own, because you are not Hawke.

That's an absolutely baseless declaration.

[JackFace]

Well I could imagine that my character is a nutjob and he shouts with CAPS on.

As in imagining ways how your character says it, I have a great example.

When
Alistair is about to tell you he is the heir to the throne you can pick
the "You are going to tell me you are an idiot" option. I've thought my
PC is saying that in sarcastic manner, like in Alistair's witty and
sarcastic style. But it was written in game as an insult. And lost
approval.

Shame, he would've totally liked that joke.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. In DA2, you'll be able to choose how you say. Those situations where you say something and the character takes it the wrong way won't be there. Ergo, you have more control over the roleplaying. It's deciding instead of guessing.

[Khayness]

JackFace wrote...

If that's what I'm arguing with, there's no point in talking.

Well that's roleplaying. Using your imagination. Just like in PnP games, the DM doesn't give you dialogue options you say whatever you want.

We are just using our imagination to fill the blank slates.

[Anathemic]

JackFace wrote...

It's 5 AM here, please tell me you weren't sarcastic

Sorry, that was in response to: I 100% garuntee it will be like this, if I'm wrong, well good for you, if I'm right, well I was right

If that's what I'm arguing with, there's no point in talking.

6 backgrounds are better than 1 and don't forget races, i'm an elf
dalish or city I'm a second-class citizen, a dwarf I'm a victim of
political schemes, i'm a human, my family died.
What I do know from
DA2 is that I'm a human refugee from Lothering, that's already fact and
that's one origin story, there's no I'm an elf, or I'm a dwarf, or i'm
a human noble, no it's just human refugee.

You're right, you don't get to choose your race. Right now, you don't have any idea what decisions you'll make in regard to Hawke's backstory. His being a refugee isn't his entire backstory - there's plenty more that the player can decide.

In DA2 it's Hawke's
personality, not yours, i said before all you can do is guide/steer
Hawke, you can't make Hawke your own, because you are not Hawke.

That's an absolutely baseless declaration.

No not really, the character is Hawke, BioWare repeatedly said they wanted to tell the story of Hawke, Hawke is voiced, Hawke is Hawke.
In comparison to Warden, who is the Warden? The Warden is one person but it cannot be possible an elf, human, dwarf at same time. The Warden is me because I choose what the Warden is.
You can't choose who Hawke is, he simply is

[JackFace]

You misread my statement again. I was just talking about how arguing with someone who completely disregards facts is pointless.

[Anathemic]

Khayness wrote...

JackFace wrote...

If that's what I'm arguing with, there's no point in talking.

Well that's roleplaying. Using your imagination. Just like in PnP games, the DM doesn't give you dialogue options you say whatever you want.

We are just using our imagination to fill the blank slates.

You sir, I respect since you know what role-playing is