296 réponses à ce sujet

[Khayness]

JackFace wrote...

That's exactly what I'm talking about. In DA2, you'll be able to choose how you say. Those situations where you say something and the character takes it the wrong way won't be there. Ergo, you have more control over the roleplaying. It's deciding instead of guessing.

In that case here is my tiny comment lost between huge quote pyramids from a hour ago.

Khayness wrote...

It's more likely that DA2 will feature a
dialoge system where you can choose how to react, like
angry/bored/curious rather than picking the line "Surrender, or not,
it'll be more fun! in threatening/suave/begging/sarcastic ways.

It
would be fun but the limitations are there because of the voiced
character. Lots of lots of lines spoken by the voice actor and the
different responses are numerous.

[Riona45]

Khayness wrote...



Well that's roleplaying. Using your imagination. Just like in PnP games, the DM doesn't give you dialogue options you say whatever you want.

Yes, in PnP games, but not CRPGs like DA (O or 2).

[JackFace]

No not really, the character is Hawke, BioWare repeatedly said they
wanted to tell the story of Hawke, Hawke is voiced, Hawke is Hawke.
In
comparison to Warden, who is the Warden? The Warden is one person but
it cannot be possible an elf, human, dwarf at same time. The Warden is
me because I choose what the Warden is.
You can't choose who Hawke is, he simply is

The Warden is the Warden. See? I can make ridiculous statements, too. You'll be able to decide just as much about Hawke as you were able to about the Warden, except for the race. Give me something, anything, that suggests otherwise.

[Riona45]

Anathemic wrote...


You sir, I respect since you agree with me.

Fixed.

[Anathemic]

Riona45 wrote...

Khayness wrote...



Well that's roleplaying. Using your imagination. Just like in PnP games, the DM doesn't give you dialogue options you say whatever you want.

Yes, in PnP games, but not CRPGs like DA (O or 2).

RPG's are PnP games on a virtual screen basically, why do you think role-playing (Imagination if you want to call it that) is my main point here? RPG: Role-playing Game

[Anathemic]

JackFace wrote...


No not really, the character is Hawke, BioWare repeatedly said they
wanted to tell the story of Hawke, Hawke is voiced, Hawke is Hawke.
In
comparison to Warden, who is the Warden? The Warden is one person but
it cannot be possible an elf, human, dwarf at same time. The Warden is
me because I choose what the Warden is.
You can't choose who Hawke is, he simply is

The Warden is the Warden. See? I can make ridiculous statements, too. You'll be able to decide just as much about Hawke as you were able to about the Warden, except for the race. Give me something, anything, that suggests otherwise.

Hawke is a predetermiend character made by BioWare, the player can't choose who Hawke is, he's always the refugee from Lothering
The Warden is a predetermiend charcter made by BioWare but the player can choose who the Warden is

[Khayness]

JackFace wrote...


No not really, the character is Hawke, BioWare repeatedly said they
wanted to tell the story of Hawke, Hawke is voiced, Hawke is Hawke.
In
comparison to Warden, who is the Warden? The Warden is one person but
it cannot be possible an elf, human, dwarf at same time. The Warden is
me because I choose what the Warden is.
You can't choose who Hawke is, he simply is

The Warden is the Warden. See? I can make ridiculous statements, too. You'll be able to decide just as much about Hawke as you were able to about the Warden, except for the race. Give me something, anything, that suggests otherwise.

Hawke will be a predeterminated character. But BioWare doesn't say he's afraid of clowns. Using my roleplaying powers from outer space I'll imagine that Hawke hate clowns. And I will kill every clown I'll meet in the Free Marches because I damn well please so, giving reason to it by roleplaying.

[Riona45]

Anathemic wrote...

RPG's are PnP games on a virtual screen basically, why do you think role-playing (Imagination if you want to call it that) is my main point here? RPG: Role-playing Game

Ummm, I play an actual PnP game, and I can tell you that they are very different from CRPGs (which are entirely scripted ahead of time), but experience with you tells me you won't "hear" that.

[JackFace]

It's more likely that DA2 will feature a
dialoge system where you can choose how to react, like
angry/bored/curious rather than picking the line "Surrender, or not,
it'll be more fun! in threatening/suave/begging/sarcastic ways.

It
would be fun but the limitations are there because of the voiced
character. Lots of lots of lines spoken by the voice actor and the
different responses are numerous.

That's entirely speculation and isn't worth arguing about since neither of us know.


Hawke is a predetermiend character made by BioWare, the player can't choose who Hawke is, he's always the refugee from Lothering
The Warden is a predetermiend charcter made by BioWare but the player can choose who the Warden is

Holy Christ. You aren't listening at all. All of the characters are predetermined characters from BioWare, you just get to choose which pregame segment you play through. It has no bearing on the character. The only thing you know about Hawke is that he's a human refugee. You choose everything else, just like you chose everything else with the Warden.


Hawke will be a predeterminated character. But BioWare doesn't say
he's afraid of clowns. Using my roleplaying powers from outer space
I'll imagine that Hawke hate clowns. And I will kill every clown I'll
meet in the Free Marches because I damn well please so, giving reason
to it by roleplaying.

There you go. BioWare also didn't say the Warden was afraid of clowns, but you could play him the same way. You're literally arguing my points for me. Why do we keep disagreeing?

As well, I appreciate you sanity, Riona.

[Anathemic]

Riona45 wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

RPG's are PnP games on a virtual screen basically, why do you think role-playing (Imagination if you want to call it that) is my main point here? RPG: Role-playing Game

Ummm, I play an actual PnP game, and I can tell you that they are very different from CRPGs (which are entirely scripted ahead of time), but experience with you tells me you won't "hear" that.

CRPG's is basically a simplied PnP RPG on a virtual screen. In PnP I can create my character, determine who my character is, personality of character, speech of character.

CRPG like DA:O I can create my character, I can determine who my character is from various origin stories, I can choose the personality of the character by role-playing what I have from the ambiguous dialogue options, I can determine the speech of my character mute by simply roleplaying (imagining it)

[Riona45]

JackFace wrote...
As well, I appreciate you sanity, Riona.

Likewise.

[JackFace]

I can determine the speech of my character mute by
simply roleplaying (imagining it)

You cannot do that. It is impossible.

[Khayness]

JackFace wrote...

There you go. BioWare also didn't say the Warden was afraid of clowns, but you could play him the same way. You're literally arguing my points for me. Why do we keep disagreeing?

As well, I appreciate you sanity, Riona.

Okay let's try this: BioWare didn't say the Warden hates elves, but you can roleplay the Warden in ways to screw around the elves choosing the worst possible outcomes for them. Giving the Warden's actions reason by roleplaying, imagining that the Warden hates elves.

[Anathemic]

JackFace wrote...


It's more likely that DA2 will feature a
dialoge system where you can choose how to react, like
angry/bored/curious rather than picking the line "Surrender, or not,
it'll be more fun! in threatening/suave/begging/sarcastic ways.

It
would be fun but the limitations are there because of the voiced
character. Lots of lots of lines spoken by the voice actor and the
different responses are numerous.

That's entirely speculation and isn't worth arguing about since neither of us know.


Hawke is a predetermiend character made by BioWare, the player can't choose who Hawke is, he's always the refugee from Lothering
The Warden is a predetermiend charcter made by BioWare but the player can choose who the Warden is

Holy Christ. You aren't listening at all. All of the characters are predetermined characters from BioWare, you just get to choose which pregame segment you play through. It has no bearing on the character. The only thing you know about Hawke is that he's a human refugee. You choose everything else, just like you chose everything else with the Warden.


Hawke will be a predeterminated character. But BioWare doesn't say
he's afraid of clowns. Using my roleplaying powers from outer space
I'll imagine that Hawke hate clowns. And I will kill every clown I'll
meet in the Free Marches because I damn well please so, giving reason
to it by roleplaying.

There you go. BioWare also didn't say the Warden was afraid of clowns, but you could play him the same way. You're literally arguing my points for me. Why do we keep disagreeing?

As well, I appreciate you sanity, Riona.

You aren't listening, in those pregame segments I can role-play (act out) who my character is, example being: my character can be a mean Dalish elf or a nice dalish elf or a nice dwarven noble or a mean dwarven noble
In contrast to Hawke from DA2: I can be a nice human Hawke or a mean human Hawke, but I can't be a nice elf Hawke or a mean elf Hawke.
Or if you want to go moral compass-wise, in DA:O I can be a sarcastic character, or a saddened character. In DA2 with Hawke, I can be either a 'Good' 'neutral' 'Bad' Hawke with very little variatiosn from those options.

[Anathemic]

JackFace wrote...

I can determine the speech of my character mute by
simply roleplaying (imagining it)

You cannot do that. It is impossible.

That's what role-playing is, I play a role, I immerse myself in that role, I pretend I am in that role, I imagine I am i nthat role, I play the role. Role-playing. RPG - Role-playing Game

[JackFace]

Okay let's try this: BioWare didn't say the Warden hates elves, but you
can roleplay the Warden in ways to screw around the elves choosing the
worst possible outcomes for them. Giving the Warden's actions reason by
roleplaying, imagining that the Warden hates elves.

You can do that with Hawke, too.

You aren't listening, in those pregame segments I can role-play (act
out) who my character is, example being: my character can be a mean
Dalish elf or a nice dalish elf or a nice dwarven noble or a mean
dwarven noble
In contrast to Hawke from DA2: I can be a nice human
Hawke or a mean human Hawke, but I can't be a nice elf Hawke or a mean
elf Hawke.
Or if you want to go moral compass-wise, in DA:O I can be
a sarcastic character, or a saddened character. In DA2 with Hawke, I
can be either a 'Good' 'neutral' 'Bad' Hawke with very little
variatiosn from those options.

You aren't listening. You have no idea what the wheel will be like. Period. The only diference is that you can't be an elf or dwarf.

[Khayness]

JackFace wrote...

You can do that with Hawke, too.

We don't know yet, but it's possible that due his/her personality the dialogue options won't allow that.

[JackFace]

Why would you assume that?

[Riona45]

Anathemic wrote...
CRPG's is basically a simplied PnP RPG on a virtual screen. In PnP I can create my character, determine who my character is, personality of character, speech of character.

CRPG like DA:O I can create my character, I can determine who my character is from various origin stories, I can choose the personality of the character by role-playing what I have from the ambiguous dialogue options, I can determine the speech of my character mute by simply roleplaying (imagining it)

CRPGs don't give you nearly the amount of freedom that PnP games do.  In a PnP game you don't necessarily choose one of six origin stories, you can literally be just about anything as long as the DM (and to an extent, the other players) agree to allow it.  You literally talk for your character, you don't select options.  In a CRPG everything must be scripted ahead of time before you get to touch it, meaning that there are ultimately set paths through the story.  In a PnP, you literally create the story as you go along.

This is why I find it amusing how you like to go on about roleplaying and how only you (and I guess a select few) "get it."  You seem to have quite a limited view on what a PnP game actually is, and think DA:O seemlessly replicates the PnP experience.

[Riona45]

JackFace wrote...

Why would you assume that?

They are in "assume the worst" mode I guess.

[Khayness]

JackFace wrote...

Why would you assume that?

Because the same way there isn't any option to join up with Saren in ME1 because it's totally out of Shepard's galaxy saving predeterminated personality to do so.

[Anathemic]

JackFace wrote...

Okay let's try this: BioWare didn't say the Warden hates elves, but you
can roleplay the Warden in ways to screw around the elves choosing the
worst possible outcomes for them. Giving the Warden's actions reason by
roleplaying, imagining that the Warden hates elves.

You can do that with Hawke, too.

You aren't listening, in those pregame segments I can role-play (act
out) who my character is, example being: my character can be a mean
Dalish elf or a nice dalish elf or a nice dwarven noble or a mean
dwarven noble
In contrast to Hawke from DA2: I can be a nice human
Hawke or a mean human Hawke, but I can't be a nice elf Hawke or a mean
elf Hawke.
Or if you want to go moral compass-wise, in DA:O I can be
a sarcastic character, or a saddened character. In DA2 with Hawke, I
can be either a 'Good' 'neutral' 'Bad' Hawke with very little
variatiosn from those options.

You aren't listening. You have no idea what the wheel will be like. Period. The only diference is that you can't be an elf or dwarf.

I do have an idea, I'll bring up the the confirmation of it:

"Dragon Age II uses a conversation system similar to Mass Effect's,
where players select paraphrased versions of the dialogue from a wheel.
An icon in the middle of the wheel even illustrates the line's basic
intent (like aggressive or sarcastice), so you can focus more on the
interaction rather than reading and analyzing your dialogue choices."

quote from the GI issue

Look at the bolded statements, it's simaler to Mass Effect's that means it will have a 'Good' 'Bad' 'Neutral' optiosn for it, how do i know? Because you can't have 3 negative remarks on one side of the wheel, else it will ruin the smoothness of picking dialogue options if you want to be a nice character, vice versa. The dialogue optiosn will be paraphrased, it won't be written out exact but paraphrased, simplified. Basic intent, again paraphrasing. Focuses on interaction of the two characters, rather than roleplaying it out by a simple read/analyzation. And not to mention that the characters are predetermined

[JackFace]

Heh, everyone on this board is there, it seems.

[In Exile]

DeepGray wrote...

Wrong game, ME != ME2

Right game. ME1 = ME2.

ME1: Eden Prime - Citadel - Virmire/Feros/Noveria/Theron - Endgame.
ME2: Cerberus Station - Freedom's Progress - Recruit Jack/Mordin/Grunt/Garrus - Horizon - set # of recruitment/loyatly missions - Collector Ship - set # of loyalty missions/recruitment - Derelict Reaper - set # of missions recruitment - Normandy Event - Option for Omega 4 Relay.

The structure is effectively identical. They've spread out a few mission critical moments and split the game into two halves bisected by Horizon, but you have the choice of doing missions in whatever order you want beyond the insane design decision for the post-Derelic Reaper scene.  

So to reiterate, ME1 = ME2.

Shepard was given to you, you had no choice in the matter. You weren't Shepard, you just watched BioWare's vision of Shepard. In DAO, you chose your own character and put your own personality into your creation. If you seriously thought the Warden was a bit player, you didn't understand the story at all.

You didn't get to put your own personality into the creation at all. You were forced to be a Grey Warden. And I don't mean you were forced to join,or forced to save Ferelden. You can be reluctant every step of the way up to Ostagar and Alistar and Flemeth make a great argument for why you ought to stop the Blight, Grey Warden or no. But the second you choose to spot the Blight, the game forces you to be  Grey Warden. You are not only refered to as a Warden, but forced to choose dialogue in parts identifying yourself as a Warden and never have the option to say you are merely doing this to end the Blight.

Worst of all, DA:A forces you to want to continue being a Warden.

That being said, when I say you were a bit player, I don't mean in the storyboard, I mean in the actual game. The dramatic moments are stolen from you because you lack VO. Alistair gives the speech to rouse the troops against the darkspawn. The Landsmeet is you taking turns speaking with Loghain.

You can't "put your personality" into a non-VO game. You can just pretend facts Bioware doesn't explicitly deny in game are true. Maybe you like fan-fiction, but I don't.

[Khayness]

Riona45 wrote...

JackFace wrote...

Why would you assume that?

They are in "assume the worst" mode I guess.

I'd like to point out the "we don't know yet" and "possible" words before you throw me in the whiners bag.