38 réponses à ce sujet

[Tooneyman]

In DA:O and DA:A the game was way to easy when you were a mage. It was almost godly beyond what it should have been. I notice that one of the only ways I was able to kill the high dragon was only to have Morrigan or Wynne along in the party or have my main character be a mage in general.  I didn't like that. Is there a possibility in this game I don't need a mage in the party, but instead I can use potions and have the people in the party I want? I mean I don't really care about rogues being there to focus on unlocking chests, but I would like the idea of not having to have mage in the party on different play throughs.
My main question is this is Bioware going to tone down the mage class in this next game?

[Gill Kaiser]

I want Bioware to tone UP the mage class. Well, I don't want more power, but I do want more spells to choose from.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

I want Bioware to tone UP the mage class. Well, I don't want more power, but I do want more spells to choose from.

What do you mean when you say more spells?  More classes of spells?  Spells with different effects?  Or just spells that do more-or-less the same thing as now, but with different names and animations? 

Having played an Arcane Warrior, I will be the first to admit the mage class's horrible broken-ness.  The problem might be that although rogues and warriors have the same number of different powers as mages, they're all some variant of "POINTY THING GOES IN ENEMY" (And yes, I'm aware of what I just said ><)  They can contribute some to battlefield control and defending the party, but for the most part unless it's a trap rogue, they're mainly stuck stabbing things until they die.

Mage spells have an incredible range of effects, utility, and versatility.  Mages can stun, trap, drain mana, drain health, DOT, knock prone, heal, buff, debuff, tank, freeze, and about a million other things.  And they can do these with multiple powers, single or multitarget, triggered or instant, over time or upon casting.  Broken much?

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 11 juillet 2010 - 01:03 .

[Gill Kaiser]

More classes of spells and spells with different effects! Woo!

I want a Demonology tree, if not an entire new School!

[In Exile]

I want less traps. Seriously, designing mages was a minefield because lots of abilities are useless.

That being said, you can defeat the High Dragon alone. Hell, I basically solo'd the archdemon on nightmare. Took me like 900 metric tons of health potions to do it, but I did. The trick is to have a stupidly stacked tank.

I had the following build:

Level 21

Str 52
Dex 42
Will 38
Mag 20
Cun 27
Con 36

Keening Blade as my weapon; Fade Wall as my shield. Helm of Honleath + Knight Commander's Plate (the templar armour  - 40% spell resistance OWNS; it`s IMO the best in-game armour) + Cadash Stompers + Lifegiver (purchase from store for like 100 sovereign) + Harvest Festival Ring + Warden`s Oath + Andruil`s Blessing.

Had 40 armour, 106 defence, 137 attack and 48 damage with 18.78% critical chance and 8 armour penetration. I had a bonus 20 damage to darkspawn and 10 bonus damage from flame and lighting runes usually.

This was a built that not only did I use to destroy the archdemon on nightmare, but ALL of DA:A on nightmare. It was like the game wasn`t even trying.

[Giltspur]

You don't need a mage to beat the high dragon. It may be easier, but that's too be expected. Anytime you play with who you want and that involves locking out 1/3 of the playable classes in the game, one runs the risk of making things more difficult on one's self. And what if you don't want to play through the game with a warrior, the traditional tank? Well, you can do it. But it wouldn't be surprising if it's harder.

There are a couple of things they could do for DA2 that can help with the points you bring up.

1) In Awakenings, rogues and warriors are more powerful than in DAO. So they tone up warriors and rogues. Granted, they have to be careful. I think the game will always be more fun if they make rogue, warrior and mage maintain some individuality rather than making them too homogenized--a route they could go.

2) You talk of not wanting Morrigan and Wynne around. Bioware could always give people more than two options for a mage in DA2.

As for the relative power of mages, I don't really care either way. I think mages, warriors and rogues should be roughly equivalent in power but different.   (Those differences however such as warriors, in most cases, being better tanks and mages being the only healers will still encourage diversity though.)

But there are a lot of good things about the power that mages had in DAO. They had lots of combinatory possibilities--many ways to handle a situation. That's was fun. I don't want to see them eliminating fun for balance as this isn't an MMO. Improving warriors and rogues though is a good option though--and one they already started on in Awakening.

Modifié par Giltspur, 11 juillet 2010 - 01:23 .

[Gegenlicht]

I'd be more concerned with how they make the Warrior an enjoyable class. Two-Hander is terribly slow, Sword and Board does crap for damage and Dual Wield can be done by Rogues, who can also do a whole lot of other neat things on top of that.



Granted, by the late game, the heavier armour gives Warriors insane staying power, but Dual-Wielding Rogues rival Mages for damage output over time IMO. And they're fun. My favourite playthrough was with a Rogue, Zevran and Leiliana all specced for Dual Wield, and Morrigan in the back casting status spells.



DA:O-AW did some things for Warriors, but that's beyond level 20. I really don't want to wait 20 levels for a Warrior to start coming into their own. Especially since I'll likely have rerolled him as another Rogue by then.

[Tooneyman]

I'm just pointing out the problem with the class how powerful it was. The problem with them turning up the rogues and warriors in DA:A is you were pretty much already level 20 so it didn't really matter. I'm talking about from the start. Mages are godly from the get go. I never had a problem taking direct control of any situation in the game of DA:O as my mage. It was like a hot knife through butter and in DA:A. I was literally super god with my mage.

[Tooneyman]

Gegenlicht wrote...

I'd be more concerned with how they make the Warrior an enjoyable class. Two-Hander is terribly slow, Sword and Board does crap for damage and Dual Wield can be done by Rogues, who can also do a whole lot of other neat things on top of that.

Granted, by the late game, the heavier armour gives Warriors insane staying power, but Dual-Wielding Rogues rival Mages for damage output over time IMO. And they're fun. My favourite playthrough was with a Rogue, Zevran and Leiliana all specced for Dual Wield, and Morrigan in the back casting status spells.

DA:O-AW did some things for Warriors, but that's beyond level 20. I really don't want to wait 20 levels for a Warrior to start coming into their own. Especially since I'll likely have rerolled him as another Rogue by then.

I highly agree with you. I had so much fun with my dualist rogue and I'm still playing her as you can see the face as my avatar. hehe. Rogues are pretty much just flushed out. The warrior needs some more tweeking and the mages need to not be so godly.

[Arttis]

I want a fireblast spell that shoots in all directions.

I want an earthquake spell that is a single target spell.

You can change a lot and add many spells.

Of course there is a limit before it become repetitive.

[Aetheria]

I don't see why the classes have to be perfectly balanced against each other when a) there's no multiplayer and PvP in the game, and you can choose a party with pretty much any combination of classes.

Of course we don't want one class to be really overpowered or weak compared to the others, but a little difference doesn't matter. Besides, not everyone plays these classes the same way - it's possible to build a mage as more of a tank or a support character, for example.

[elfdwarf]

i had sten kill high dragon and mages heal sten during combat.

mages are healer

no warrior or rogue can heal companion

[Tooneyman]

Aetheria wrote...

I don't see why the classes have to be perfectly balanced against each other when a) there's no multiplayer and PvP in the game, and you can choose a party with pretty much any combination of classes.
Of course we don't want one class to be really overpowered or weak compared to the others, but a little difference doesn't matter. Besides, not everyone plays these classes the same way - it's possible to build a mage as more of a tank or a support character, for example.

Because I want to have the right to run around the game with the characters I want and not have to go back and forth to the party camp to change them out because I want certain characters ina a cute scene. This is why they need to be balanced. I play like this and I always have. ITs why I like MAss effect. It didn't matter who I had in my part. As long as I could have the companions I wanted throughout the game.

[Aetheria]

Tooneyman wrote...

Because I want to have the right to run around the game with the characters I want and not have to go back and forth to the party camp to change them out because I want certain characters ina a cute scene. This is why they need to be balanced. I play like this and I always have. ITs why I like MAss effect. It didn't matter who I had in my part. As long as I could have the companions I wanted throughout the game.

Why not just make all playable characters the same class, then? Anyway, I think almost any combination of classes is playable - some are harder for me than others, but that's when I have to develop a new strategy or just chicken out and turn down the difficulty. 

[Tooneyman]

I'm a little to hardcore for turning down the difficulty. When playing mass effect I just turned it up. I'm hoping in DA2 I can do the same each time it gets more intense and more fun. In DA:O on nightmare with the mage. It was like playing easy all the time. Stunt, drain, STunt, drain.

[BroBear Berbil]

Tooneyman wrote...

Aetheria wrote...

I don't see why the classes have to be perfectly balanced against each other when a) there's no multiplayer and PvP in the game, and you can choose a party with pretty much any combination of classes.
Of course we don't want one class to be really overpowered or weak compared to the others, but a little difference doesn't matter. Besides, not everyone plays these classes the same way - it's possible to build a mage as more of a tank or a support character, for example.

Because I want to have the right to run around the game with the characters I want and not have to go back and forth to the party camp to change them out because I want certain characters ina a cute scene. This is why they need to be balanced. I play like this and I always have. ITs why I like MAss effect. It didn't matter who I had in my part. As long as I could have the companions I wanted throughout the game.

There's nothing stopping you from NOT taking a mage. They are very useful but not mandatory. I'm not sure which specific aspect of mages you find to be OP. There are definitely some unbalanced spells like Mana Clash or Storm of the Century but besides these two things, on higher difficulties they're generally underwhelming compared to the damage of most other specs.

I play nightmare and run with only one support/healer mage and never any more unless I happen to have to take a certain mage with me for a certain boss (this only happens twice in the game).

[L33TDAWG]

I feel the mages had too much and they could have made a separate casting class giving you 4 classes to choose from, 2 melee 2 ranged.

[Tooneyman]

L33TDAWG wrote...

I feel the mages had too much and they could have made a separate casting class giving you 4 classes to choose from, 2 melee 2 ranged.

^THIS!

[Gegenlicht]

They did give you two ranged classes. Archery Rogues are actually pretty damn useful. I just prefer them as Dual Wielders. Especially with a Duelist/Assassin spec. The things two (or three) Assassins can do to even the toughest enemy are just plain nasty, especially since two people are always backstabbing at the higher levels.

[lunarknightmage]

I just want them to make Arcane Warriors feel more like........idk.......Warriors....lol.



If I'm an AW with a Sword and Shield, I'd like to be able to Shield Bash.



Or, I'd like to DW 2 swords.........

[andar91]

I always played mages and I don't find them overpowered. Sure you have a lot more options, but you only have so many talent picks at once so you have to pick what you want to do. On top of that, mages are so delicate compared to other classes that it doesn't matter if you can hurl a comet at an enemy, if you're too surrounded by enemies you're toast.

I have a lot of fantasies about new spells. I don't necessarily think this will happen, but I have this vision of spell trees with multiple branches. For example: the fire tree.

Flame Blast--->Flame Weapons--->Flame Shield (fire damage to attackers)
OR
Ignite (single target spell)--->Fireball---->Mass Ignite--->Inferno
OR
Burn (light fire dmg and slows)--->Circle of Fire (traps subject/light dmg.)--->Searing Steel (enemies' attack lowered (due to their weapons being heated)--->Wall of Fire

Or something like that. I'd also like some type of summoning. I realize they don't want teleportation, but it would be cool to form a blade or something out of energy.

Modifié par andar91, 11 juillet 2010 - 03:16 .

[Jimmy Fury]

Hmm...

One way to satisfy both the "mages are overpowered" and "MOAR SPELLZ" crowds would be to make the mage class (or classes, I can see a second mage class being useful) have fewer class-Abilities and more Specialization-Abilities.



That way the big group of powers could be specific to a style like Elemental Specialization or Entropic Specialization.

Your mage would still get a bunch of powers but not all of your mages would have access to almost all of the same powers (unless, of course, you give them all the same specialization then its your fault anyway and you can't complain).



One thing I reallyyyyy want though is some blasted Melee staff moves! I mean for crying out loud here you are running around with a GIANT METAL STICK and you can't even knock a genlock upside the head with it.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Did it anyone else find it a bit silly that Blood Magic was forbidden, but Reanimating the Dead and Draining the life force of a living creature were perfectly acceptable schools of magic? (and let's not get into the academic uses of Crushing Prison)



Initially I thought Mage's being as powerful as they were to be a huge gameplay oversight, but to be honest given the right build Warriors and Rogue's can be pretty darn powerful. And then came Awakening, and they made everything else even more ridiculously powerful. (In my playthrough, Sigrun managed to do 5000+ damage in one hit somehow)

[Swoo]

The thing that made Mages so 'Overpowered' as people like to describe them, was how you could easily (once you had the hang of it) stagger multiple spell combos in machine gun like style when using 2-3 mages. Mages aren't stronger than the other classes on their own (My dagger rogue owned the hell out of my Mage), they just have a mechanic that can easily lead to abuse when set up with the right party combination.



Now that every class will have this combo system implemented into Dragon Age 2, I expect to see the 'ZOMG MAGES' die down a bit.