30 réponses à ce sujet

[MFCell]

I am not excited about Dragon Age 2.  I am not looking forward to it, anymore.  I do not really enjoy Mass Effect.  I feel that many aspects of that game detract from true role playing.  I will try to cover as many points as I can about why, I feel like Bioware is selling out, and also setting themselves up for failure when failure is nearly impossible.

First of all, let's look at what it is about Mass Effect that I don't appreciate as much as the next person.  First of all, I am stuck with a name I can't get rid of.  If I name my char.  Stan, XMobiusX, or Frurumepemopu, no one freaking ever mentoins it.  They always call me Commander or Shepard.  It REALLY takes the weight out of the decision of creating a name, so much so that my last few ME chars have been named such original names as Janes, Janet, Janus, Janera, and Judit.  Of all those names, I barely manage to get a few letters from the default "Jane". Why? Because I don't care.  It doesn't matter what her name is, her name is freakin' Shepard. NOT Frurumepemopu like *I* decided it should be.  That name will never be mentoined nor important throught out the rest of the game, including all of Mass Effect 1 and 2.  Likewise, my DA2 char. will be Hawke.  All the NPCs will call them Hawke, all references and mentoins of myself will be "Hawke".  I am not creating this char. "Hawke" nor am I defining their existence, I am merely controling them as they discover thier own destiny, which is probably pre-determined, as Shepards was.

When I start a DA:O char. I wonder, "What will this one be like?" "In what ways can this be a new and different experience?" and I always seem to come up with a great answer about how to make another playthrough of DA:O seem new and refreshing.  Most recently, after Leliana's Song came out, I wanted to make a char. which mainly focuses on Leliana and the relationship you can create with her.  So I made a new char. to play the game, but with the express idea I would focus on Leliana's story. Everything about the char. was created with Leliana in my mind, and as I play through the game, I find that I am becoming more aware of Leliana's personality than I ever have before.  Now, what If I could not tailor my char to Leliana?  What if it was stuck as a human, with a fixed name?  Would I feel like I ws able to create a char for the express purpose of matching the wants of another char.? No.

By removing custom char. creation, adding the VASTLY over-obvious dialogue wheel, and focusing on one "origin" for this sequel, you have effectively cut me out of the interest loop.  I don't care when ME3 comes out, I can wait, and if it never came out. Oh well.  That's how I feel about DA2, when in fact, DA;O is easily the best game I've ever played.

I really, REALLY, hope that all your Mass Effect fans take the bait and buy DA2, because by all accounts, you guys alienated your core fanbase to have that chance.

Please, PLEASE mods, don't take this down.  I am seriously just trying to tell ANYONE who would listen that the narrative style of ME will NOT fit onto DA.PLEASE do not dumb DA2 down in order to close the gap between your core audiences. I AM LITERALLY BEGGING YOU NOT TO JEOPARDIZE THIS IP WITH THESE DOLLAR BASED DECISIONS.

[dklancer02]

In KOTOR you were Revan and woke up with amnesia.
In KOTOR 2 you were the Exile and a former general.
In Jade Empire you were the Spirit Monk and a student of the brother of the emperor.
In BG 1 and 2 you were the Bhaalspawn and raised by Gorion.
In DA:O you were The Grey Warden and had multiple origins, almost all of which end up with everyone dead.
In Fallout you were the Vault Dweller and lived in a vault all your life.
In Fallout 2 you were the Chosen One and a tribal descendant of the Vault Dweller.
In Fallout 3 you were the Lone Wanderer and again lived in a vault your whole life.
In Planescape Torment you were the Nameless One and immortal.
In NWN2 you were the Kala'cha and had a silver sword stuck in your chest after you grew up in a doomed hometown.

Get over yourself.

Modifié par dklancer02, 11 juillet 2010 - 01:46 .

[jontepwn]

Does a name of the player character make that much of a difference? And why is this vastly over-obvious dialogue such a bad thing? Would you want it to be extremely vague instead so you might not end up with the dialogue option you wanted? And if anything they have "alienated" an extremely tiny vocal minority. Dragon Age 2 is set for success so you might just want to get used to it. It's too bad you feel left out but this is the way the game is going to end up.

Modifié par jontepwn, 11 juillet 2010 - 01:53 .

[Kilrogg_]

So you're angry NPCs don't mention your name? What do you expect the game to do, switch to a computer-generated voice during the part of the voice-over that mentions your name? I'm sure everyone would love that.



Claiming Bioware is setting themselves up for failure when a very tiny percentage of people care about something like that is ridiculous. Even if this entire forum was foretelling the failure of DA2, that'd represent what, <5% of the global audience of this game?

[Sigma Tauri]

dklancer02 wrote...

In KOTOR you were Revan and woke up with amnesia.
In KOTOR 2 you were the Exile and a former general.
In Jade Empire you were the Spirit Monk and a student of the brother of the emperor.
In BG 1 and 2 you were the Bhaalspawn and raised by Gorion.
In DA:O you were The Grey Warden and had multiple origins, almost all of which end up with everyone dead.
In Fallout you were the Vault Dweller and lived in a vault all your life.
In Fallout 2 you were the Chosen One and a tribal descendant of the Vault Dweller.
In Fallout 3 you were the Lone Wanderer and again lived in a vault your whole life.
In Planescape Torment you were the Nameless One and immortal.
In NWN2 you were the Kala'cha and had a silver sword stuck in your chest after you grew up in a doomed hometown.

Get over yourself.

Ha! Checkmate.

[lunarknightmage]

In DAO, we were stuck with predetermined last names, too. We could only choose the 1st name.



So.....we were essentially "forced" to play as a character named Cousland, Amell, Aeduncan, Mahariel, etc. The 1st name we chose was rarely used in the dialogue choices. Most of the time we were addressed as Warden.



I really don't see how playing a character with the predetermined last name of Hawke is much different than playing a DAO character with one of the predetermined last names....

[MFCell]

In DA:O you were The Grey Warden and had multiple origins

.

No, you get over YOURSELF.

DA2 is only the sequal to one of the games you listed. Care to guess which, and whethor or not it had multiple starts and endings?

[MFCell]

lunarknightmage wrote...


I really don't see how playing a character with the predetermined last name of Hawke is much different than playing a DAO character with one of the predetermined last names....

Because the entire world didn't call me Lord Aeducan or Sir Cousland?  They called me the Warden. In DA2, you'll be "Hawke" to every one you meet, just like Shepard, whom never gets called his/her first name, once, ever.

IN DA:O, chosing a name is something I realte to myself.  A name for somethign I created.  Everyting I create in DA2 will be "Hawke"...

Modifié par MFCell, 11 juillet 2010 - 01:58 .

[AlanC9]

MFCell, you really need to work on your reading comprehension. Several of the games on that list are sequels. And in case you didn't notice, they didn't feature the protagonist of the previous games.

Let's add SoU. Despite being an expansion to NWN2, it does not feature the PC from the NWN OC.

Modifié par AlanC9, 11 juillet 2010 - 01:59 .

[dklancer02]

MFCell wrote...


Because the entire world didn't call me Lord Aeducan or Sir Cousland?  They called me the Warden. In DA2, you'll be "Hawke" to every one you meet.

I fail to see how this is any different than everyone calling you Warden. At least this time people who know you well and could be considered good friends will call you buy your given name instead of your title.

So, again, get over yourself.

[Dave of Canada]

dklancer02 wrote...

In KOTOR you were Revan and woke up with amnesia.

And it was amazing, you were programmed with a false life. I had an entire backstory in my mind about who my character was, what he or she did and how they got where they were and then it was all shattered when I found out it was all programmed into me by the Jedi.

It created a character where my backstory wasn't invalid, it was just brainwash.

In KOTOR 2 you were the Exile and a former general.

One of it's complaints that I hear from some people is that the Exile's backstory is too specific.

In Jade Empire you were the Spirit Monk and a student of the brother of the emperor.

In BG 1 and 2 you were the Bhaalspawn and raised by Gorion.

Never played.

In DA:O you were The Grey Warden and had multiple origins, almost all of which end up with everyone dead.

You were allowed to create your own character in the sense that you could be a spoiled brat human noble, an aggressive **** human noble and such. Your character was forced on a set path, yet you weren't a specific character.

In Fallout you were the Vault Dweller and lived in a vault all your life.

Again, using the Dragon Age example: You were who you were, not some action hero or whatever the game programmers had in store for you. You could make somebody who wasn't too smart, you could make somebody who yearned to explore outside the Vault or never wanted to leave in the first place.

In Fallout 2 you were the Chosen One and a tribal descendant of the Vault Dweller.

Never played the second one.

In Fallout 3 you were the Lone Wanderer and again lived in a vault your whole life.

<repeat the same thing as Fallout 1>

In Planescape Torment you were the Nameless One and immortal.
In NWN2 you were the Kala'cha and had a silver sword stuck in your chest after you grew up in a doomed hometown.

Never played.

Get over yourself.

Was this necessary?

[jontepwn]

I can see why you're upset about this, that's your opinion and I will respect it. Too bad Bioware isn't going the direction you want it to take. But it's their game, their decision, and they'll do what they want with it. The gameplay will basically be the same, as will the leveling, looting and companion system too I'm sure, they're just going with a slight different direction with this game. It will have the moral dilemmas, confrontations, relationships as any great Bioware game. Only this time you won't get to chose your character.

[MFCell]

Warden is completely anonymous. Anyone can become a Warden if they pass the joining, any any background or ideas can be applied to a Warden.



Hawke is my name. None but Hawke can be Hawke. Hawke is a guy who escaped Lothering right before it was destroyed. Hawke already is someone. If I create a char. to play DA:O, they are created right there on the spot, with any variables I can imagine almost.



BTW Alanc9, before you tell me to worry on my reading comprehension, why don't you take a moment to realize you actually misread what you quoted me on??? Pot call kettle black much, hmmmm? I said DA2 is only the sequel to one of the games on the list. DA:O. I never said DA was the only sequel on the list. I then pointed out that of all those games, DA:O has the most open beginning, which is essentially my biggest complaint about DA2.



So see, it was all related, if you took the time to understand what you are reading.

[MFCell]

jontepwn wrote...
 Only this time you won't get to chose your character.

Which is essntially what gave DA:O it's lasting appeal.

[dklancer02]

[quote]Dave of Canada wrote...

[quote]dklancer02 wrote...


[quote]Get over yourself.[/quote]

Was this necessary?

[/quote]

I've seen too much self centeredness and entitlement complexes on these boards. So yes, it was necessary, not just to him particularlly but to most of the board in general.

Besides, I can make the same case with Shepard that no two Shepards are the same beyond that s/he's in the military and saving the galaxy.

[AlanC9]

You said that DA2 is the sequel to only one of the games listed. Yep, I comprehended that.

Sequels sometimes don't do the exact same thing that the original game did. Do you comprehend that?

Edit: I'm not telling you that you can't miss the origins feature of DA:O. Yep, you've been screwed. But this sort of thing happens with sequels. Things change. Sometimes the thing that changes is the thing you personally liked. Deal.

Modifié par AlanC9, 11 juillet 2010 - 02:15 .

[Dave of Canada]

Besides,%20I%20can%20make%20the%20same%20case%20with%20Shepard%20that%20no%20two%20Shepards%20are%20the%20same%20beyond%20that%20s/he%27s%20in%20the%20military%20and%20saving%20the%20galaxy.

You can't create a sarcastic Shepard or a spoiled brat version of Shepard, you're limited to the whole military-badass mofo.

Edit: Seems to be a bug, it won't let me quote correctly.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 11 juillet 2010 - 02:13 .

[MFCell]

Sorry to burst your bubble dklancer02, but developer and game specific forums are the best place for a person who has legitimate concerns over the direction of a game to voice those concerns. In fact, there is no more appropriate place in all of the world for me to be voicing the concerns I have, than right here.



Please, continue trolling.

[lunarknightmage]

MFCell wrote...

lunarknightmage wrote...


I really don't see how playing a character with the predetermined last name of Hawke is much different than playing a DAO character with one of the predetermined last names....

Because the entire world didn't call me Lord Aeducan or Sir Cousland?  They called me the Warden. In DA2, you'll be "Hawke" to every one you meet, just like Shepard, whom never gets called his/her first name, once, ever.

IN DA:O, chosing a name is something I realte to myself.  A name for somethign I created.  Everyting I create in DA2 will be "Hawke"...

So.....you would rather ppl call you by the generic "Warden" or "Sir" or "My Lady" than call you by your character's given last name?

Again, in DAO....our character's last names were predetermined.  Our origins were predetermined.  If I played as a Human Noble............I was playing as "XYZ" Cousland......the youngest child of Bryce and Eleanor Cousland whose family and home was wiped out by the treacherous Arl Howe.

Even if no one addressed me specifically as "Cousland," I was playing as a character named Cousland with a predetermined backstory.

How is that different than playing as a character named "Hawke" with a predetermined backstory.  At least this time, ppl will actually address me by my given name....

[Giltspur]

In the case of my characters, the origins Bioware presented me facilitated my thinking about my character.

But the key to the RP was that events happened that I could think about and make decisions about and see consequences to my decisions that would help me further the way I thought about my character.

Customizable names and origins are one way of facilitating RP. But they're not the only way. If the story is on rails, yeah, Bioware will have disappointed me. Video games that aspire to be mere movies are video games that don't aspire enough. But if there are different ways to live Hawke's life, then RP can thrive yet in DA2. And Bioware is still advertising all of that with the talk of your choices mattering and in deciding how you become Champion of Kirkwall.

And the talk of the game being told as though it's already happened is more of an artsy move than a sell-out move that leads me to believe Bioware's writers are still trying to tell good stories rather than trying to dumb things down.

Modifié par Giltspur, 11 juillet 2010 - 02:20 .

[MFCell]

AlanC9 wrote...

You said that DA2 is the sequel to only one of the games listed. Yep, I comprehended that.

Sequels sometimes don't do the exact same thing that the original game did. Do you comprehend that?

I do, and also comprehend that the changes in direction are generally made because players felt a certain area was lacking, or the developer wants to do somethign different for it's own reasons.

In the first case, the char. creation and development was what made DA:O good, so no, I don't think they are trying to change it because it didn't work.

Which means they are trying to change it for thier own reasons.  What might those reasons be? I feel fairly sure that, based on the success of DA:O, Bioware knows that changing the formula isn't a good idea.  The only reason they would do it is money.

[AlanC9]

MFCell wrote...

Sorry to burst your bubble dklancer02, but developer and game specific forums are the best place for a person who has legitimate concerns over the direction of a game to voice those concerns. In fact, there is no more appropriate place in all of the world for me to be voicing the concerns I have, than right here.

Yep. And this is also the place where we can say that your concerns should be ignored.

[AlanC9]

MFCell wrote...
Which means they are trying to change it for thier own reasons.  What might those reasons be? I feel fairly sure that, based on the success of DA:O, Bioware knows that changing the formula isn't a good idea.  The only reason they would do it is money.

This makes no sense at all. How is a less successful game going to make more money?

Edit: a voiced protagonist will cost more money, not less.

Modifié par AlanC9, 11 juillet 2010 - 02:21 .

[lunarknightmage]

well, if Bioware does try to "box" us into a predefined personality or character template ( and I can see where having a voiced character can limit the dialogue and action choices ), then, I will be extremely disappointed, too, as it takes away the roleplaying aspect of the game.



but, like with most info about the game, we simply don't have enough information to draw any concrete conclusions. We don't know how much we will be able to "customize" our Hawke character in terms of how he/she behaves......