268 réponses à ce sujet

[ThePasserby]

I believe the devs know exactly to which segment of the market they are targeting DA2 and they are also prepared to lose the business of the segment that prefers the current system as they have very likely figured out that on the whole, they will be getting better sales figures. So, why not just let the latter vent off steam?



The information available about DA2, while scant, is enough indication that those gamers belong to the category that Bioware is dumping. I happen to like both DA and ME and have no strong preference for either system, but I won't be too pleased either if I found out that the company I've been a huge fan of has changed and has little intention of providing me with the kind of games that made me a fan in the first place.

[soteria]

I guess if it's a wheel, it's a wheel, but I'm really curious to know if the dialogue options will have hotkeys associated with them (1-6). The dialogue wheel is definitely slower to use than just pressing the number of the choice I want. Besides, if I'm doing something with my right hand like eating a sandwich I don't want to put it down just so I can use the mouse and choose an option.

[soteria]

Are you suggesting that there are no similarities? Well, for the sake of clarity I'll break it down for you. Things confirmed in DA2 that were not in DA:O and are like things in ME:



1. A predetermined, prenamed lead character that can be male or femail human and choose from a list of classes.

2. Voice acting for the lead character.

3. A wheel system for dialog that does not let you see exactly what the character will say except for a basic idea.

4. "A cinimatic style story presentation."



And the only really important thing that could still be added to that list is the combat mechanics. Once (if) they announce that combat will be style combination of action games and RPGs, the deal with the devil will be complete. At that point it will really be ME-but-in-medievil-times.

1. A predetermined, named character... you mean exactly like KotOR? Your character was also "named" in DA:O in the same way Hawke is named. It just happens that there aren't 6 origins to choose from, so they can just say "Hawke" instead of "one of six origins." Your character isn't named in BG, but it is predetermined (you're the Bhaalspawn that grew up in Candlekeep, period). You could choose any race, but it never mattered.

2-4. Ok, DA2 has ME's dialogue system, with some changes. That's one thing.

They already said PC combat will stay essentially the same.

[Asenkah]

Never in DA did I have to worry about my Warden sounding like a tart when conversing with party members. However in ME2 I completely and totally avoidied any futher interactions, therefore missed out on dialoge/writing for a charcter because my FemShep was forced to sound like a tramp when conversing with Jacob. Do Not Want.

[Collider]

F!Shepard sounds better after the second conversation with Jacob. If you don't romance him in the second conversation, she gets the same conversations as M!Shepard, and doesn't sound as desperate.

[dan107]

zahra wrote...

dan107 wrote...

I just want to throw in my 2 cents and say that I'm very happy with what I'm hearing about DA2 so far. ME2 was a better game than DA IMO, and the fast-paced, dramatic conversations were a big reason why. Great to see that making its way to DA2.

*cries a little*

*Hands tissue.*

There, there. Us dirty ME2 liking simpletons aren't so bad.

Modifié par dan107, 11 juillet 2010 - 04:40 .

[LPPrince]

soteria wrote...

I guess if it's a wheel, it's a wheel, but I'm really curious to know if the dialogue options will have hotkeys associated with them (1-6). The dialogue wheel is definitely slower to use than just pressing the number of the choice I want. Besides, if I'm doing something with my right hand like eating a sandwich I don't want to put it down just so I can use the mouse and choose an option.

You shouldn't be eating food near your computer anyway. So yay to the wheel for forcing players to use proper etiquette and good computer care. lol

[Eludajae]

David Gaider wrote...

MFCell wrote...

After all the resounding praise I always gave DA:O, in every case, I assumed you would do right by me because DA:O was ALREADY a throw-back game, which relied on tried and true gameplay mechanics, rather than flashy battles.

Imagine my surprise to find out that DA2 is in fact, Dragon Effect, and doesn't even pick up where the events of DA:O left off, it actually starts in the midst them.  What a slap in the face.  It makse no sense.  It's like you guys are trying to make my decisions unimportant, setting it up so the later decisions I made could not POSSIBLY impact the games beginning.  DA:O was such a run away hit with RPG fans, why would you guys tweak it like this?

Really, REALLY seems like this is a bad dream. I'm not even kidding. If I had a nightmare about the DA sequel, today would be it.

I beleive this can easily be considered the worst thing to happen in Dragon Age history, including the Blight.

I'm leaving the forums now, and I doubt I'll ever come back.  All I wanted was to continue my story.  All I got was Shepard with a new name and a sword.

In fact, Bioware.  I'm gonna start dissing you guys as sellouts to my friends when they ask me about DA2.  I'll tell them "Nah it wont be any good." "Why?" they will ask, and I will reply "Did you enjoy Mass Effect?" "No, not nearly as much as DA:O"... "Well, they are making it much more like ME than DA:O this time around."  At this point, my DnD game hungry friends will surely frown, a moment of sadness passing as they greive for the game that could have been, but will not be.

Yes Bioware, I'm going to talk BADLY about you for this, by drawing comparisons between ME and DA to gamers who realize ME is a Halo rehash with HP.  Consider any personal reviews of DA2 I do to be completely negative. And beleive me, I will get asked eventually, especially as release draws near.  It should be something a little new to you guys, word of mouth attempts to disparage your games release.  Your fans are always so cuddley and happy with you.  It's about time you guys got the end of the stick the rest of the industry gets from alienated fans.  The ****ty one.

Sorry you feel that way. We appreciate your loyalty and understanding, as well as the fact that you stuck it out long enough to get more than a cursory view of the game before rendering your decision. Hopefully you'll give the game a try when it comes out-- if not, happy trails!

YAY   That was the BEST response I could have asked for to this trolling fools assesment of the game on a few articles and hear say!!! That was simply awesome David! I could hear the resounding Trollslap from here.  I mean it, I wish more devs would come out and be this forward with idolts like this guy!

[tmp7704]

David Gaider wrote...

So you like being able to read the line with the inflection in your own head, making it sarcastic or angry or happy, even if nobody in the game reacts to that? Or, in fact, reacts differently based on our intent regarding the line rather than your own? This is better?

Because I would think being able to communicate our intent more clearly and still give you options to define your personality by choosing how you say things as well as the actions you take still gives you plenty of options to take the character in the direction you choose. The only thing you lose is that your character uses a defined voice-- not necessarily a defined personality-- but if you associate that much simply with the voice then there's really not much more to say, is there?

I think the ability to voice the character in one's head is preferable in the sense it leaves player with some freedom in picking the inflection and tone exactly the way the player considers best for their character. When you replace that with a recorded voice, it requires the VA to miraculously hit the lines just like every player would intend it in their head which is obviously not possible and in some cases (infamous "come get me stud" attitude of Shepard when talking to Jacob to give one example) it can get so far off it breaks the player's connection to the character which is supposed to be their own.

Please note, your ability to "communicate intent more clearly" isn't at all limited to voiced characters, that icon thing could just as well be used with the full written lines system. So in case of DA2 it is more of "you gain some (intention icon) you lose some (freedom in shaping character's tone)" while it could be instead just "you gain some (intention icon)" with no drawback. At least from some players' point of view.

Modifié par tmp7704, 11 juillet 2010 - 04:53 .

[Tezzajh]

well with all the bashing that Dragon Effect has recived do you think they will scrap anything or will they cross their fingers in hope of filling their pockets?

[AlanC9]

b09boy wrote...
 Let me make an example.

No VA
Leliana: Can we go shopping?
 -Option 1: Let's go to the market. [exasperated/excited/amused]
   -Leliana:  Yay!
  -Option 2: Must we? [questioning/irritated/whiny]
   -Leliana: I suppose if you really don't want to...
 -Option 3: No.  We have better things to do with our time. [matter-of-factly/annoyed/angry]
   -Leliana: [disappointed] I suppose you're right.

VA
Leliana: Can we go shopping?
 -Tone: Positive.  "Sure, I'd love to.  I need to pick up more equipment anyway.
    -Leliana: Yay!
 -Tone: Irritated.  "Why do you feel the need to constantly empty our purse whenever we near a market district?
   -Leliana: I suppose if you really don't want to...
 -Tone: Negative.  "No and stop bloody asking.  We have better things to spend gold on than shoes with silken inlay.
   -Leliana [disappointed] I suppose you're right.

This really confuses me. Is the non-VA approach supposed to look superior here? I don't see any reason at all to prefer it. Obviously you're trying to load the dice by not having an actual neutral response, but that's just bad design.

[dan107]

Tezzajh wrote...

well with all the bashing that Dragon Effect has recived do you think they will scrap anything or will they cross their fingers in hope of filling their pockets?

They got my 60 bucks! 

[Tezzajh]

I probally wont get it, with so much dlc and origins story that is in origins i still have tons of playthroughs, never finished with a dwarf or a dalish elf, its these things that make origins superior i can play over and over and get diffrent reactions due to race something which Dragon effect cannot 2?

for example i was a human in 1st playthrough i got halfway throught the game, then i wouldnt at a certain point what would happen if i was a elf here?dwarf here? dalish? city? at least 4 reasons to replay the game. 

now its o i done the game, well can't be ar++d to play it again i know how he will treat me, i no what she will say , what he will do etc

Modifié par Tezzajh, 11 juillet 2010 - 05:21 .

[errant_knight]

ThePasserby wrote...

I believe the devs know exactly to which segment of the market they are targeting DA2 and they are also prepared to lose the business of the segment that prefers the current system as they have very likely figured out that on the whole, they will be getting better sales figures. So, why not just let the latter vent off steam?

The information available about DA2, while scant, is enough indication that those gamers belong to the category that Bioware is dumping. I happen to like both DA and ME and have no strong preference for either system, but I won't be too pleased either if I found out that the company I've been a huge fan of has changed and has little intention of providing me with the kind of games that made me a fan in the first place.

Y'know, I can't tell you how much I appreciate this. Thank you, really. When you're being shown the door, you at least want to have your say, even if you know it will make no difference and you can't stop it any more than you can stop a tornado. Well, at least they can't take our copies of Origins away.

[Astatine]

David Gaider wrote...

_-Greywolf-_ wrote...
What I am worried about is that Hawke will turn out to be just like Shepard, I remember reading an interview with Greg and Ray where they explained why they limit the personality options of a character like Shepard where they would give more freedom to a character the player can create

In our opinion, it might be okay for Commander Shepherd to be stoic and gruff as a rule-- he's a soldier, after all-- but that's not going to fly for Dragon Age. We don't intend to lock you into a single personality.

As to our solution for doing that-- well, we'll have to discuss that later on. But we do have one, and it's not something you see in Mass Effect. Dragon Age is a different game, despite the comparisons some people seem pretty quick to make based on a few common features.

Belatedly: I'm very glad to see that.  That's my biggest concern laid to rest (insofar as it can be).

Nice to see so much developer posting on a Sunday...  

[bzombo]

soteria wrote...

Are you suggesting that there are no similarities? Well, for the sake of clarity I'll break it down for you. Things confirmed in DA2 that were not in DA:O and are like things in ME:

1. A predetermined, prenamed lead character that can be male or femail human and choose from a list of classes.
2. Voice acting for the lead character.
3. A wheel system for dialog that does not let you see exactly what the character will say except for a basic idea.
4. "A cinimatic style story presentation."

And the only really important thing that could still be added to that list is the combat mechanics. Once (if) they announce that combat will be style combination of action games and RPGs, the deal with the devil will be complete. At that point it will really be ME-but-in-medievil-times.

1. A predetermined, named character... you mean exactly like KotOR? Your character was also "named" in DA:O in the same way Hawke is named. It just happens that there aren't 6 origins to choose from, so they can just say "Hawke" instead of "one of six origins." Your character isn't named in BG, but it is predetermined (you're the Bhaalspawn that grew up in Candlekeep, period). You could choose any race, but it never mattered.
2-4. Ok, DA2 has ME's dialogue system, with some changes. That's one thing.
They already said PC combat will stay essentially the same.

if pc combat stays pretty much the same, i will be a very happy camper. how dialog is delivered and things like that are peripheral things to me. give me good story and dialog and i don't care about how it is presented. just give me quality.

[the_one_54321]

soteria wrote...

Are you suggesting that there are no similarities? Well, for the sake of clarity I'll break it down for you. Things confirmed in DA2 that were not in DA:O and are like things in ME:

1. A predetermined, prenamed lead character that can be male or femail human and choose from a list of classes.
2. Voice acting for the lead character.
3. A wheel system for dialog that does not let you see exactly what the character will say except for a basic idea.
4. "A cinimatic style story presentation."

And the only really important thing that could still be added to that list is the combat mechanics. Once (if) they announce that combat will be style combination of action games and RPGs, the deal with the devil will be complete. At that point it will really be ME-but-in-medievil-times.

1. A predetermined, named character... you mean exactly like KotOR? Your character was also "named" in DA:O in the same way Hawke is named. It just happens that there aren't 6 origins to choose from, so they can just say "Hawke" instead of "one of six origins." Your character isn't named in BG, but it is predetermined (you're the Bhaalspawn that grew up in Candlekeep, period). You could choose any race, but it never mattered.
2-4. Ok, DA2 has ME's dialogue system, with some changes. That's one thing.
They already said PC combat will stay essentially the same.

I'm not saying a predetermined character is a bad thing. It's just similar to ME.
Where did they say combat would stay the same? I haven't heard that yet.

[rhautanen]

For anyone having trouble with the math, they make more $ if they sell 10 copies to people who will play through once, as opposed to one copy to one person who plays through 10 times. Also, don't anyone think that what you say on a forum like this matters much. It doesn't. But people do like to vent (including me), so IMO...



DA2 will be good, maybe very good. I will buy it, and I will enjoy it. DAO, however, is GREAT. Part of that was the variety of the characters I could make (including the different origins). That was a large part of the "special sauce" that makes DAO my favorite computer game of all time. The "non-voiced" PC is more than fine with me, in fact I'm one of those that actually prefers it, as I get more into it by "voicing" my character in my head.



So, some people keep saying there isn't enough information yet to warrant complaints. I beg to differ. For people who's likes/tastes aren't effected by the announced changes (or don't care) that may be true. For others the announced changes are significant, because it's changing a fundamental part of what they like most about the game. Is that so hard to understand?

[rhautanen]

And another thought I forgot to mention. I do understand (somewhat) the $ aspects of the game business. That means I don't always (ever?) get exactly what I want, and neither does anyone else. That's the way it is. If it's the case that making another game like "DA1" is not profitable enough I can easily accept that. If it's a case of something else I will be forced to accept that too, but it won't be so easy.

[Addai]

Tezzajh wrote...

well with all the bashing that Dragon Effect has recived do you think they will scrap anything or will they cross their fingers in hope of filling their pockets?

I am sure that the decisions were made by the suits, and the suits don't care what a few diehards in the forums say.  It's nice of the writers to indulge us here occasionally, but we all know this goes nowhere.

[Dwarf-Thane]

slimgrin wrote...

ThePasserby wrote...

I believe the devs know exactly to which segment of the market they are targeting DA2 and they are also prepared to lose the business of the segment that prefers the current system as they have very likely figured out that on the whole, they will be getting better sales figures. So, why not just let the latter vent off steam?

The information available about DA2, while scant, is enough indication that those gamers belong to the category that Bioware is dumping. I happen to like both DA and ME and have no strong preference for either system, but I won't be too pleased either if I found out that the company I've been a huge fan of has changed and has little intention of providing me with the kind of games that made me a fan in the first place.

Its people like you who made the first game a huge success. No way would they want to abandon such a lucrative fanbase.

You argument holds water, perhaps, when discussing Mass Effect. But DA is a hardcore, traditional rpg. It would make no sense for them to try a crossover market for the sequel.

What other segment would they be marketing, anyway? 

The market where they say OMG we hav MOAR VOICE ACTING!!!!! and are treated with responses like Zomg! Yes!!!!11!!

This is the decline of role-playing in the RPG genre, of which BioWare was one of the last bastions.  People modded the hell out of NWN and DA:O because they were real RPGs.  Take a look at the types and number of mods for DA:O.  People loved the customization.  They loved the choices you got to make.  People still post about stuff about their 4th playthrough... 

You don't get that from Mass Effect.  That's fine...they're different types of games.  They should have stayed different.  In a High- Fantasy RPG, the three most important things you get to do are choose your class, RACE, and GENDER.  One of those is being taken from us...arguably the most important from a role-playing/immersion standpoint.  Nevermind the horriffic changes to dialogue...

The extremely well-done and popular Origin stories are being ditched in order to provide us with what exactly?  Why is it we're giving up one of the most immersive and fun aspects of the highly successful DA:O?  For cheaper voice acting for the PC (which I don't think will garner them any MORE sales and will probably upset many of the RPG crowd enough to where they won't buy it or will buy it later at a much reduced price)? For ease of programming (no need to reference individual things from each origin's past later in the game since there is only one origin)?  So the game can have something to call us other than Warden since we're evidently not one this time around?  What are we actually gaining from this that outweighs the loss of immersion, customization, and diversity?  In my opinion, the answer is nothing...actually less than nothing.

[rhautanen]

slimgrin wrote...

rhautanen wrote...

For anyone having trouble with the math, they make more $ if they sell 10 copies to people who will play through once, as opposed to one copy to one person who plays through 10 times. Also, don't anyone think that what you say on a forum like this matters much. It doesn't. But people do like to vent (including me), so IMO...

DA2 will be good, maybe very good. I will buy it, and I will enjoy it. DAO, however, is GREAT. Part of that was the variety of the characters I could make (including the different origins). That was a large part of the "special sauce" that makes DAO my favorite computer game of all time. The "non-voiced" PC is more than fine with me, in fact I'm one of those that actually prefers it, as I get more into it by "voicing" my character in my head.

So, some people keep saying there isn't enough information yet to warrant complaints. I beg to differ. For people who's likes/tastes aren't effected by the announced changes (or don't care) that may be true. For others the announced changes are significant, because it's changing a fundamental part of what they like most about the game. Is that so hard to understand?

No, its not. What they have announced about the game is pretty big, actually. But you may end up liking the new changes. Maybe its best not to look at DA2 as a sequel, but a different fantasy RPG from Bioware. 

I've already started thinking of it as a different game, rather than a sequel. I will like DA2, just not as much as DA1. I'm old enough, and have played enough to know that for me this is a pretty good prediction.