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Are people really that dissapointed by a game we have so little info about?


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#51
whinnie

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Andat wrote...

@OP: The details are slim but they tell us quite a lot - we know we won't be able define our own player character, and basic action is going to be a larger part of the game. .

wont be able to define in what way? his last name is set, but so was the last name of all the origin stories, his race is preset and i can understand will be disappointed with that but no matter how much i love my dalish elf I'm not going to write the game of just for that. the appearance is customisable is it not? and you can still define your character personality by his actions and dialogue choices.
just because a couple of decisions have been made you cant change you cant then make an assumption based on no fact that everything is already predetermined.

#52
Gerudan

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stylepoints wrote...

Release I believe is March 2011.


Yep, that would be thew 8 month I mentioned, but it may come out even later. 

#53
Wynne

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I'm disappointed by the choice of a human character, but that's partially a body-type thing. I'm so tired of playing the video game equivalent of an anorexic runway model with plastic surgery; I liked being able to play a short, round, busty character in DA as that's my perspective on the real world. I look up at people. If I look down, I see my rack. Anything else feels a bit disorienting at first, and not in a fun way. I feel more immersed on my first playthrough if I can choose a character similar to myself, and in later playthroughs when I'm a tall, leggy warrior woman instead of a tiny rogue, it feels different. It makes the new playthrough feel different. It's a far more enjoyable experience that way.

Though I prefer playing dwarves and elves, I would mind a lot less if they have more than one human body type this time--short, tall, round, and muscular. If I'm a warrior, I'd like to be tall and strong, not a waif! If a rogue, I'd like to be lean and compact. If I'm a mage, I'd like to be plump and short. I want to either choose body type, or have it chosen for me by class. I think character choices like that are part of the fun of an RPG like this--I really don't want them to just have you choose your head and have nothing else be different but armor piled on top of your figure. In DAO, there was no difference between close-combat large-weapon-wielding people, who should have built ridiculous amounts of muscle, and mages, who do run around and wave their arms but aren't exactly using any strength. So I don't think you should have corpulent PCs, that wouldn't make sense for the lifestyle, but I think you should have a range so that people can choose what they want, if only by class.  It adds very much to immersion when the people you see vary a bit by height and shape.

The origin story not being selectable... I'm a bit sorry about that, but I vastly prefer this idea to the way it was in DAO--I'd rather have a really well-done story that I can affect and that is persistent throughout the game than a story that grabs me, makes me love it, and then turns into a few offhand lines and a cameo for the rest of the game. I would have preferred 3 origins instead of 6 or 1, but I still prefer 1 to 6 based on the way DA turned out, simply because I want them to do the main character justice. Set variables, have NPCs form opinions, say concrete things... I want it to feel interactive, not have the NPC I'm talking to say, "Oh, yeah, your family died, sorry, let's not talk about that" and then go on about their family and their problems as if they have no interest in anything not related to them.

The voice not being selectable... GOOD, I say. Maybe it will be something other than poor quality this time. DA voices were better than in BG, but still not anywhere near the quality of, say, Claudia Black/Steve Valentine/Kate Mulgrew/Simon Templeman. Which it should be, because it's one of the main characters, even if you don't hear them speak as much as others. (If it really didn't matter, there wouldn't be a mod to erase the "ladder" line.) As long as they choose mid-range voices and actors with the same level of skill as the guy who voiced Mike Thorton in Alpha Protocol, I can almost swear we won't mind. I sort of wish they'd give two options, but that would probably cost a lot and for not so much gain in comparison with other things they could be spending time and dough on.

The dialogue being focused on Hawke instead of focused on nothing... HALLE-FREAKING-LUJAH! Seriously. Now that the writers are seeing the protagonist as a personality of sorts instead of a generic vehicle for the player to interact with the characters who are actually interesting, maybe this time we'll get more lines that exceed the quality of "Sorry, but I'd rather just be rid of your evil right now." Which is sad. It's just sad. Maybe this time we'll have things to say about our character's past, options to express feelings which have more subtlety and range than "I love you" vs. "I hate you." I loved the NPCs in DAO, but man, were the interactions inconsistent. For every Warden line I liked there were four that made me cringe if I really let myself pay any close attention to them.

All in all, I trust Bioware. I'm a bit skeptical, but then, I was skeptical about Awakening, and they pulled that off quite nicely. The Deep Roads felt like I imagined them when reading the books this time, for one thing.

I'm actually very happy that they're refusing to stagnate here. I want to see what they can do with the ideas they're presenting. But I do hope they'll do future games with elven and dwarven protagonists if they continue in this vein. You can't exactly call a human a bold, exciting choice. You play a human in most games ever made. But for this one, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that there's a good reason why they chose that race. Maybe racism will be more pronounced and you'll have to work hard to gain the trust of any elves and dwarves you encounter. That would be fun. I love it when a game asks me to fight racism. I can argue passionately about that in real life and I love to have the option to do so in a game.

If they can find a happy medium between Mass Effect and DAO, I'll be plenty happy with Hawke and DA2. That, I'm sure of. And if they keep most of what I loved about DAO, like the depth of the NPCs you travel with, the scope of the world, and the varying settings, while stepping it up a notch, this could truly beat the last one. I just hope they hold on to the best of what DAO was, and make sure they give us lots of options for shaping Hawke in fun, rewarding ways, related to appearance (not just the head and clothing!), personality, and history.

Modifié par Wynne, 11 juillet 2010 - 12:25 .


#54
Pocketgb

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The less options are given a player, the more personal the story becomes. However, the less personal it becomes the more a player is able to 'fill in the blanks', per se. Many people can have a pretty awesome imagination regarding this. It's personally why I can be so immersed in Bethesda games.

But I feel that that's the biggest reason why so many are disappointed by the major PC change, although I felt things were pretty limiting in DA:O already.

Wynne wrote...

I'm disappointed by the choice of a human character, but that's partially a body-type thing. I'm so tired of playing the video game equivalent of an anorexic runway model with plastic surgery; I liked being able to play a short, round, busty character in DA as that's my perspective on the real world. I look up at people. If I look down, I see my rack. Anything else feels a bit disorienting at first, and not in a fun way. I feel more immersed on my first playthrough if I can choose a character similar to myself, and in later playthroughs when I'm a tall, leggy warrior woman instead of a tiny rogue, it feels different. It makes the new playthrough feel different. It's a far more enjoyable experience that way.


This is why I'm hoping that DA2 ups the ante in character customization. Cool, it's awesome tinkering my face, now let us affect the rest of the body!

I personally like to make my female characters slightly shorter and rather stocky: tough and broad shouldered. I think this is why I liked playing a female Dwarf in DA:O the most.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 11 juillet 2010 - 12:28 .


#55
Andat

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whinnie wrote...

Andat wrote...

@OP: The details are slim but they tell us quite a lot - we know we won't be able define our own player character, and basic action is going to be a larger part of the game. .

wont be able to define in what way? his last name is set, but so was the last name of all the origin stories, his race is preset and i can understand will be disappointed with that but no matter how much i love my dalish elf I'm not going to write the game of just for that. the appearance is customisable is it not? and you can still define your character personality by his actions and dialogue choices.
just because a couple of decisions have been made you cant change you cant then make an assumption based on no fact that everything is already predetermined.


The last names in DAO were different based on which origin story you played, and we already know that's not the case with DA2.  We know you can't define race, and the GameInformer article refers to the character as male.  Is there any reason to suppose we will be able to define class?

It's true that we will have to wait and see but the little we do know at this point is far from encouraging

#56
Azriel77

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Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Dawn of War 2


Hate to break it to you, but a LOT of people hate the new direction in the DOW series(its only got 2 and a half stars from customers on amazon).  I just got into the dow series thanks to the steam sales, I played the first DOW I(love it) and skiped to dow II(not hate, but very, very dissapointed so far) to see what all the fuss is about.  I have to say I really do not like the new direction, the maps are boring, and just playing with only 4 squad members gets old quickly.  The missions are either attack or protect, thats it! I like base building and having huge armies.  Also, there is not really much of a story told like the first game.  This is another case of fixing something that wasn't broke. 

To be fair, I am still early in DOW II, but if its more of the same I will probably stop playing it and just go back to dow I.


Sorry for getting off topic, now about DA2.  I have to say that even though there is little info, the info about them voicing your character was the biggest fear I had after DAO was released.  I just KNEW bioware would dumb it down for console people.  VO the character automatically LIMITS what you can do and takes out stuff that many people really like in RPGs.  The ME wheel though caught me off gaurd, that was an extra knife in the back, not only is it LESS choices, now its going to be less choices that you don't even know what you will be saying till you select the FEELING/Intent of what you are going to say.  If its a feeling/intent system, how is it going to be anything besides good/evil/neutral intent?  Again, the biggest thing I feared after the first game is the very first thing we learn about in the second.  How am I not supposed to be mad?  Its been dragon effected.

#57
XX55XX

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Sorry for getting off topic, now about DA2. I have to say that even though there is little info, the info about them voicing your character was the biggest fear I had after DAO was released. I just KNEW bioware would dumb it down for console people. VO the character automatically LIMITS what you can do and takes out stuff that many people really like in RPGs. The ME wheel though caught me off gaurd, that was an extra knife in the back, not only is it LESS choices, now its going to be less choices that you don't even know what you will be saying till you select the FEELING/Intent of what you are going to say. If its a feeling/intent system, how is it going to be anything besides good/evil/neutral intent? Again, the biggest thing I feared after the first game is the very first thing we learn about in the second. How am I not supposed to be mad? Its been dragon effected.


All of the concerns that you have raised are perfectly valid, as are many of the concerns raised on this board.

Unfortunately, when the release date comes, you have only two choices: to either buy the game and enjoy it for what it is, or to ignore it and never play it. What can you do about it? These details have already been released. I doubt any level of criticism will force BioWare to backpedal on what has already been set in stone.

#58
Avilan II

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wikkedjoker wrote...
But going into it I know the game wont be a sequel, more of a reboot.  


I don't think you know what Reboot means.

#59
stylepoints

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b09boy wrote...

stylepoints wrote...

Why haven't you tried climbing Mount Everest yet? Why hasn't someone made a game about feeding penguins to sharks yet? Why hasn't bioware made a flight simulator yet? I don't work for them don't ask me.


Seriously, what the hell are you going on about?  It's not like there is no logic to what I am saying.


stylepoints wrote...
Maybe it's because they don't have time or money.


Good answer.

Let's make a fairly simple comparison.  Mass Effect and Dragon Age.  Both took up nearly a full disk.  ME2 needed to be on two.  Yet neither game had even half the content of DA.  What they did have was a voiced protagonist quite literally tripling the amount of dialogue they needed to record and fit onto disk.

But hey, ignore facts.  I'm sure they'll hit that milestone nobody has yet even approached.


A milestone most people don't even shoot for. You are assuming people equate length of game with goodness of game, which is definitely not the case.

And what I was saying is you are wondering why nobody achieves a goal that nobody sets out to achieve. Nobody has tried to make large fully voiced games, so of course there arent any.

Modifié par stylepoints, 11 juillet 2010 - 03:14 .


#60
Tooneyman

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When it comes down to the final decision of Biowares new game for DA 2. The money is what is going to talk and the reviews of the games sites like IGN.com. People go by word to mouth, but if there is more hate for a game before it is released it will not sale at all so bioware needs to get the fans really excited about his game and I mean gun pointing at your face excited. Once that interview comes out they need to cross their fingers and hope people respond to it well. That will be the final decision in the coffin. Remember when it comes down to the end. Money talks and its all business and the customer is always right if they are buying something. Just not on game forums. lol.

#61
Victia

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Tooneyman wrote...

When it comes down to the final decision of Biowares new game for DA 2. The money is what is going to talk and the reviews of the games sites like IGN.com. People go by word to mouth, but if there is more hate for a game before it is released it will not sale at all so bioware needs to get the fans really excited about his game and I mean gun pointing at your face excited. Once that interview comes out they need to cross their fingers and hope people respond to it well. That will be the final decision in the coffin. Remember when it comes down to the end. Money talks and its all business and the customer is always right if they are buying something. Just not on game forums. lol.


Of course money talks but i also like to think that bioware have some pride in what they are doing and want to make the existing fans happy as well as bring on board new ones!

#62
Azriel77

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XX55XX wrote...

Sorry for getting off topic, now about DA2. I have to say that even though there is little info, the info about them voicing your character was the biggest fear I had after DAO was released. I just KNEW bioware would dumb it down for console people. VO the character automatically LIMITS what you can do and takes out stuff that many people really like in RPGs. The ME wheel though caught me off gaurd, that was an extra knife in the back, not only is it LESS choices, now its going to be less choices that you don't even know what you will be saying till you select the FEELING/Intent of what you are going to say. If its a feeling/intent system, how is it going to be anything besides good/evil/neutral intent? Again, the biggest thing I feared after the first game is the very first thing we learn about in the second. How am I not supposed to be mad? Its been dragon effected.


All of the concerns that you have raised are perfectly valid, as are many of the concerns raised on this board.

Unfortunately, when the release date comes, you have only two choices: to either buy the game and enjoy it for what it is, or to ignore it and never play it. What can you do about it? These details have already been released. I doubt any level of criticism will force BioWare to backpedal on what has already been set in stone.


Its funny, I kind of ignored the DOA game because I was afraid it would be mass effect in fantasy.  I played a friends copy for a couple of days and was blown away by the old school RPG style.  I said I have to get this NOW!  Got it on steam and have been very happy with it.  However, the version coming out will probably be the very version I feared the first game would be.  I am sure one of my friends will buy it and let me try it out.  If its what I think it will be, then I will just not buy it till it reaches the bargain bin.  Then I won't feel that I am being ripped off when I play this possible travesty, just dissappointed at what EAware did to it.  I have a ton of games that I still have not got to play, yet that has been sitting on my desk collecting dust, I could finally get around to those.

#63
Gorthaur the Cruel

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Tooneyman wrote...

When it comes down to the final decision of Biowares new game for DA 2. The money is what is going to talk and the reviews of the games sites like IGN.com. People go by word to mouth, but if there is more hate for a game before it is released it will not sale at all so bioware needs to get the fans really excited about his game and I mean gun pointing at your face excited. Once that interview comes out they need to cross their fingers and hope people respond to it well. That will be the final decision in the coffin. Remember when it comes down to the end. Money talks and its all business and the customer is always right if they are buying something. Just not on game forums. lol.

Take a look at this article. Apparently DAO did better than any of their other games in sales.
 

#64
17thknight

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XX55XX wrote...

All of the concerns that you have raised are perfectly valid, as are many of the concerns raised on this board.

Unfortunately, when the release date comes, you have only two choices: to either buy the game and enjoy it for what it is, or to ignore it and never play it. What can you do about it? These details have already been released. I doubt any level of criticism will force BioWare to backpedal on what has already been set in stone.


Given what we know of the game thus far, that's going to be an easy decision.

The implementation of the Mass Effect "wheel" is horrific. I say that as an actual fan of the Mass Effect games. I enjoy them in-spite of that god-awful wheel, not because of it. I can't imagine what made someone think it was a good idea to put that monstrosity into Dragon Age.

1. Not knowing what your character will say is awful.
2. Not knowing how your character will react is awful.
3. Knowing the "upper right = good" "Lower right = bad" "Middle = neutral" and "left = doesn't affec tthe story" completely obliterates any actul thought, personalization, and connection you feel to the conversations.

The ME Wheel is a Blight.

#65
Victia

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I dont know I think the ME wheel works in ME but not sure about in dragon age - however we have no reason to believe thats the sort of thing that they will go for!



I agree 100% with the fact that not knowing what your character will say is aweful!

#66
spottyblanket

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I'm not one of those people. I'd feel a bit embrassed to rage about something I barely knew anything about, but obviously the raging makes them sastifed somehow *shrug* just don't ruin it for the rest of us guys, who are actullay excited and try and force your cynical ways onto us. x.x

#67
LPPrince

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Can we combine all these threads into one superthread?

#68
SOLID_EVEREST

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Solostran85 wrote...

Tooneyman wrote...

When it comes down to the final decision of Biowares new game for DA 2. The money is what is going to talk and the reviews of the games sites like IGN.com. People go by word to mouth, but if there is more hate for a game before it is released it will not sale at all so bioware needs to get the fans really excited about his game and I mean gun pointing at your face excited. Once that interview comes out they need to cross their fingers and hope people respond to it well. That will be the final decision in the coffin. Remember when it comes down to the end. Money talks and its all business and the customer is always right if they are buying something. Just not on game forums. lol.

Take a look at this article. Apparently DAO did better than any of their other games in sales.
 


I think it was mainly the PS3 sells, but I'm not for sure. Mass Effect is only PC/Xbox release, which, in turn, probably handicapped them. Maybe the sells aren't as good as we thought because of the PS3 sells?

#69
element eater

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Crrash wrote...

a) i at least never complained that we aren't getting a continuation to the warden story.
B) one thing doesn't exclude the other. We want to develop our very own character (which to us the things that have been announced so far make it extremely difficult) and we want to roleplay this character through events that bioware sets in our path. AKA what happens in a pen and paper RPG

i have faith that bioware will make a great game. But i KNOW from the things that have been announced (which have been HUGE for people like me) that i won't be able to experience it the way i did Dragon Age: Origins. This is a major set back for me.

I feel exactly the same. im sure this game will be good but its far from the game id hoped for.

Modifié par element eater, 12 juillet 2010 - 11:00 .


#70
Jedi_blues

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Victia wrote...

Well I come on here and read the posts most days (although never posted beforePosted Image) and since the very little information we have about DA:2 has been released, all I seem to be reading is moaningPosted Image and I am not entirely sure why? OK the fact that you have to be human is a little surprising as is getting rid of the multiple backgrounds. BUT here is the thing - I trust Bioware (now if it was all down to EA I would be a jibbering wreck lmao), they have never let me down before and I dont think they will start now.

Although there has been such a small amount of info (the meanies haha) I think it sounds awesome, and my husband is already preparing to loose me for 6 months while i play through with every possible option!!! And if it isnt amazing.....well I will just have to hunt down everyone who works for bioware and poke them in they eye Posted Image haha!!!



We as human beings tend not to like change. I have a feeling most of the grumpy gus crowd will change their mind when they see the actual game. Yes, it is a little disappointing that our heroes from DA will not live on, but we already knew that, assuming we were paying attention. They said early on that Dragon Age would not be a trilogy.

Seriously though, how can anyone not understand that having a fully voiced character will only deepen the immersion. I loved Dragon Age, but it never felt quite as imerssive  as Mass Effect or Mass Effect 2. It only makes sense that they would go in this direction. Even their MMO went to fully voiced over after seeing Mass Effect.

I get that some people would rather play a dwarf or an elf, that is a down side to being fully voiced over. But I promise you a majority of the people that are up in arms right now will be blown away by the final product.

Embrace the change guys. the franchise will be better for it in the long run.

#71
Jedi_blues

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element eater wrote...

Crrash wrote...

a) i at least never complained that we aren't getting a continuation to the warden story.
B) one thing doesn't exclude the other. We want to develop our very own character (which to us the things that have been announced so far make it extremely difficult) and we want to roleplay this character through events that bioware sets in our path. AKA what happens in a pen and paper RPG

i have faith that bioware will make a great game. But i KNOW from the things that have been announced (which have been HUGE for people like me) that i won't be able to experience it the way i did Dragon Age: Origins. This is a major set back for me.

I feel exactly the same. im sure this game will be good but its far from the game id hoped for.


You can still develop and role-play with, for example, Commander Shepard. And I guarantee you will be able to with Mr or Ms Hawke. Sure some details are set in stone, but there is always room to create or add to the back story in your mind or on paper if you wish. How you respond to situations will be different depending on how you do that. Did his experiences create a jaded soul who looks upon the world with skepticism while only looking out for himself? Or did it teach him life id precious and try to be the best man he can be? (Whilst slaying people and saving the world of course.)  In Mass Effect you have a variety of dialog, which you use depends on how you see your character.

Let's face it, every Windows/360/PS3 game has limitations. As a human noble I couldn't ride of with Fergus, no matter how much my character in a paper and dice game may have done just that, even if he had to sneak off. 






  

#72
Jedi_blues

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element eater wrote...

Crrash wrote...

a) i at least never complained that we aren't getting a continuation to the warden story.
B) one thing doesn't exclude the other. We want to develop our very own character (which to us the things that have been announced so far make it extremely difficult) and we want to roleplay this character through events that bioware sets in our path. AKA what happens in a pen and paper RPG

i have faith that bioware will make a great game. But i KNOW from the things that have been announced (which have been HUGE for people like me) that i won't be able to experience it the way i did Dragon Age: Origins. This is a major set back for me.

I feel exactly the same. im sure this game will be good but its far from the game id hoped for.


You have to remember that a lot of people, now matter how great a game is, won't play a "sci fi" game. They won't even demo it. All they want to play is fantasy based games.

#73
Layn

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Jedi_blues wrote...

We as human beings tend not to like change. I have a feeling most of the grumpy gus crowd will change their mind when they see the actual game. Yes, it is a little disappointing that our heroes from DA will not live on, but we already knew that, assuming we were paying attention. They said early on that Dragon Age would not be a trilogy.

my opinion of mass effect 2 stayed equally low after having played it. My opinion of awakening got worse. You know, some of us know what exactly helps us immerse ourselves in the game and what makes it more difficult. Don't go assuming that we are whining for nothing.
also i don't care that we don't play our warden, even though it would be nice. i don't care that we don't have a bigger choice of races, even though it would have been nice.

Jedi_blues wrote...
Seriously though, how can anyone not understand that having a fully voiced character will only deepen the immersion. I loved Dragon Age, but it never felt quite as imerssive  as Mass Effect or Mass Effect 2. It only makes sense that they would go in this direction. Even their MMO went to fully voiced over after seeing Mass Effect.

more immersive for you. not for me. To me a cinematic style with voiced characters and a wheel where i don't know what exactly is going to be said detaches me from the character and it's just not what i wanted and expected from the dragon age franchise.
It has nothing to do with understanding, it's a matter of taste and how differently we experience the game.


it will be a great game, i will enjoy it. But i just wanted the great experience from the same dragon age but BETTER. instead i'm getting a different experience that i like, but not as much. and yes, i can already know that with the little info that is out there right now, since what is out there influences completely what kind of experience the game will be

Modifié par Crrash, 12 juillet 2010 - 11:29 .


#74
SirOccam

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17thknight wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

All of the concerns that you have raised are perfectly valid, as are many of the concerns raised on this board.

Unfortunately, when the release date comes, you have only two choices: to either buy the game and enjoy it for what it is, or to ignore it and never play it. What can you do about it? These details have already been released. I doubt any level of criticism will force BioWare to backpedal on what has already been set in stone.


Given what we know of the game thus far, that's going to be an easy decision.

The implementation of the Mass Effect "wheel" is horrific. I say that as an actual fan of the Mass Effect games. I enjoy them in-spite of that god-awful wheel, not because of it. I can't imagine what made someone think it was a good idea to put that monstrosity into Dragon Age.

1. Not knowing what your character will say is awful.
2. Not knowing how your character will react is awful.
3. Knowing the "upper right = good" "Lower right = bad" "Middle = neutral" and "left = doesn't affec tthe story" completely obliterates any actul thought, personalization, and connection you feel to the conversations.

The ME Wheel is a Blight.

Ha, never saw this before.

"Okay, I've said this before in another thread, but you realize that
just sticking a big circular thing next to the choices doesn't actually
change them to something different, right? Whether they are arranged
vertically, or sort of curved, it's a list of choices. Paraphrases and
VO or silent, it's a list of choices.
We can have whatever choices we want. We still have no alignment.
There's not going to be a "top option is good, bottom option is evil"
component to the conversations.
" - Mary Kirby

Yay for conclusion-jumping!

#75
Layn

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Jedi_blues wrote...

You can still develop and role-play with, for example, Commander Shepard.

bad example. even bioware says they limited Shepard to be a hardened military type.
i'm happy that Hawke won't be as limited, but it will still be hawke, with hawkes voice, and with however hawke talks (since i don't even get to choose what exactly he or she says).

sure Dragon Age really did have limits. But if you play along with where the DM is trying to guide you you will find enough options to give you an illusion of freedom of character.