48 réponses à ce sujet

[Dreadstruck]

Ah nevermind.

Still, when they were talking about the "updated" toolset, they actually meant "updated for DA2" or just another version of the old one?

Not really up-to-date with news.

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 24 janvier 2011 - 09:49 .

[Edge2177]

Heck if anything toolsets improve sales, because there is that much more to do with the game outside of just the normal design. Players have went on to make stand alone modules that you can play even after you finish the normal and custom content.

[David Gaider]

Edge2177 wrote...
Heck if anything toolsets improve sales, because there is that much more to do with the game outside of just the normal design. Players have went on to make stand alone modules that you can play even after you finish the normal and custom content.

Actually, I suspect that if a toolset improves sales the reason is because a modded game will likely be played longer and still be on the player's hard drive-- which, as near as we can tell, is the #1 factor affecting DLC sales.

But being cynical and suggesting that not potentially providing a free update to the toolset is a way for us to bilk you of more money rather than a lack of time and resources probably sounds cooler.

At any rate, we don't know yet.

[FurousJoe]

David Gaider wrote...

Edge2177 wrote...
Heck if anything toolsets improve sales, because there is that much more to do with the game outside of just the normal design. Players have went on to make stand alone modules that you can play even after you finish the normal and custom content.

Actually, I suspect that if a toolset improves sales the reason is because a modded game will likely be played longer and still be on the player's hard drive-- which, as near as we can tell, is the #1 factor affecting DLC sales.

But being cynical and suggesting that not potentially providing a free update to the toolset is a way for us to bilk you of more money rather than a lack of time and resources probably sounds cooler.

At any rate, we don't know yet.

I realise I sounded like a pessimist, but I've not been overly impressed by how Dragon Age Legends is handled, I know it's not you guys dev'ing it, but it's your IP after all =/

[Icinix]

Really? Considering Legends is in 'dark beta' I've been very impressed by it. As far as Facebook games though, it's none to shabbeh.

[Rylor Tormtor]

David Gaider wrote...



At any rate, we don't know yet.

Wait, don't know if we should be cynical or reasonable, or don't know if there will be a toolset?

I am of two minds, I mean, there have been a lot of mods for DAO, but relatively little stand alone adventure/campaigns/modules in comparison to something like NWN. Of course, it could be because the mian campaign for DAO was like a million times better then the NWN original so people felt less of a need top make modules.

So... ummm... release a tool set and make a crappy game so we can see a rise in community created modules!

Errr, nevermind.

[Ravenfeeder]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

I am of two minds, I mean, there have been a lot of mods for DAO, but relatively little stand alone adventure/campaigns/modules in comparison to something like NWN.

Or it could be that the NWN toolset was specifically designed for the end user and has been out for many, many years.  For the really good adventures it can take years for a mod team to a) learn what the toolset can do and then produce somethig substantial.  Although some modders are just super-gifted and produce something excellent without learning all the tricks first.

[s0meguy6665]

David Gaider wrote...

Edge2177 wrote...
Heck if anything toolsets improve sales, because there is that much more to do with the game outside of just the normal design. Players have went on to make stand alone modules that you can play even after you finish the normal and custom content.

Actually, I suspect that if a toolset improves sales the reason is because a modded game will likely be played longer and still be on the player's hard drive-- which, as near as we can tell, is the #1 factor affecting DLC sales.

But being cynical and suggesting that not potentially providing a free update to the toolset is a way for us to bilk you of more money rather than a lack of time and resources probably sounds cooler.

At any rate, we don't know yet.

It pays off in other ways too - other gamers might hear about the mods or the modding potential and get interested in the game (bethesda games appeal is partly in this).

Also what you say, but it improves the game for players, so that they're more likely to be satisfied by it and buy a sequel. Also, the more playthroughs, the more players get attached to the game, it's world and characters. Which also translates into more sales.

And then there's the fact that you're doing a lot of your fans a great favor, if that matters at all to you, compared to profit.

BY THE WAY. seriously. if you want to sell more DLC, make them of better quality.

Modifié par s0meguy6665, 24 janvier 2011 - 11:28 .

[UberDuber]

David Gaider wrote...

Edge2177 wrote...
Heck if anything toolsets improve sales, because there is that much more to do with the game outside of just the normal design. Players have went on to make stand alone modules that you can play even after you finish the normal and custom content.

Actually, I suspect that if a toolset improves sales the reason is because a modded game will likely be played longer and still be on the player's hard drive-- which, as near as we can tell, is the #1 factor affecting DLC sales.

But being cynical and suggesting that not potentially providing a free update to the toolset is a way for us to bilk you of more money rather than a lack of time and resources probably sounds cooler.

At any rate, we don't know yet.

Maybe because the DLC content isn't all that good?
The best one for me was WItch Hunt and even that was very disapointing.

[_Aine_]

David Gaider wrote...

-- which, as near as we can tell, is the #1 factor affecting DLC sales.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding this, and please correct me if I am, but is the general belief that the toolset hurts DLC sales, seriously?  

I think it is a minority of people who liked the toolset because fans made more adventures to expand their game. I think the toolset, for the great majority of people was popular because people could modify the NPC/characters appearances (heads, hair, body, clothes) to be more customised. Yes, some added romances - but those are generally not included in DLC anyway.    Like I said, maybe I am wrong.  

In general if the DLC is a decent length and quality and brings something to my game experience I am all for it, but the availability of the toolset to play with my characters appearance was a huge plus for the game.  It was an aesthetic edge rather than a functional play-expansion tool.   

I hope that Bioware decides to share the toolset.  

EDIT:  Thanks for clarifying!   

Modifié par shantisands, 24 janvier 2011 - 11:40 .

[John Epler]

shantisands wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

-- which, as near as we can tell, is the #1 factor affecting DLC sales.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding this, and please correct me if I am, but is the general belief that the toolset hurts DLC sales, seriously?  

I think it is a minority of people who liked the toolset because fans made more adventures to expand their game. I think the toolset, for the great majority of people was popular because people could modify the NPC/characters appearances (heads, hair, body, clothes) to be more customised. Yes, some added romances - but those are generally not included in DLC anyway.    Like I said, maybe I am wrong.  

In general if the DLC is a decent length and quality and brings something to my game experience I am all for it, but the availability of the toolset to play with my characters appearance was a huge plus for the game.  It was an aesthetic edge rather than a functional play-expansion tool.   

I hope that Bioware decides to share the toolset.  

You are vastly misinterpreting David's quote. David was saying that it is people keeping the game installed and on their hard drive that has the most effect on DLC sales - basically, if we can keep people playing and enjoying the game for longer, they're more likely to buy DLC. Thus, a toolset is a net positive in regards to this.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

No, odds are a toolset won't be released since they "don't know" at this late date if they are going to release one or not.



Expect more DLC to be sold by Bioware or offerered as promotions to buy other games.

[_Aine_]

JohnEpler wrote...

You are vastly misinterpreting David's quote. David was saying that it is people keeping the game installed and on their hard drive that has the most effect on DLC sales - basically, if we can keep people playing and enjoying the game for longer, they're more likely to buy DLC. Thus, a toolset is a net positive in regards to this.

Ah, good thank you! *whew*  That is why I said to please correct me if I am wrong. These are the moments you are very glad to be very wrong!  

Sometimes,  (going even further than written word being very difficult to ascertain inflection sometimes) some things just touch on fears that suddenly make you spring into panic mode.  Taking away the toolset is, I guess, my DA panic button.  I am very glad to be wrong!    And happy it is at least still open for consideration. 

Thanks for taking the time to clear that up! *curtsey*  

[Addai]

We like the toolset and hope for another.  Yay toolset. 

[sevalaricgirl]

I won't buy DLC until I read reviews and they are good reviews. Witch Hunt definitely deserved it's 5 rating. I thought the best was Lelianna's song. It was definitely not of the same level as ME2s DLC. I'd love to have DLC of that quality. I'd be very willing to pay for that quality.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

I would like to take a moment and say that it would really, really be great to have a toolset for DA2, or a toolset update, or a trained bunny that poops great mods. Whichever you guys and gals can pull off would be hugely and wildly appreciated. I prefer PCs because I can take them apart and rejigger them and break them and fix them and I like to do the same thing with my games. It would be a huge, huge thing for a lot of us and we would really appreciate it.



:-)

[ScotGaymer]

JohnEpler wrote...


You are vastly misinterpreting David's quote. David was saying that it is people keeping the game installed and on their hard drive that has the most effect on DLC sales - basically, if we can keep people playing and enjoying the game for longer, they're more likely to buy DLC. Thus, a toolset is a net positive in regards to this.

Yeah you are totally right.

You just have to look at the flagship RPG modding community The Elder Scrolls to see just what a good strong modding community can do for a game.
People are still buying, and playing Oblivion what 5 years after it was released?

People actually report on the Bethesda forums that they have -worn out- their copies of Oblivion and had to buy 2nd copies; and in some cases 3rd. All because of the modding community.
Oblivion would have dissapeared 3 to 4 months after release never to be heard from again (given bethesda's penchant for releasing games in beta format) if it hadnt been for the toolset; Fallout 3 would have flopped as quickly and as badly as Fable 3 (due to it being really crappily written in addition to it being released in beta) if it hadnt been for the GECK.

And given that Dragon Age Origins outsold Mass Effect 2 (cross platform) you have to believe that that was at least in part due to the toolset for the PC version.
I know its why I bought the PC version as opposed to the Xbox version.

You dont have to release a toolset right away - Bethesda didnt, the TESCS and the GECK came out a few weeks/months after. But I genuinely think it would pay dividends to spend a little time post release updating or creating a DA2 toolset.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 25 janvier 2011 - 01:30 .

[FieryDove]

David Gaider wrote...

At any rate, we don't know yet.

Please with cookies/sprinkles?

Modifié par FieryDove, 25 janvier 2011 - 01:33 .

[Erode_The_Soul]

I am desperately hoping for an updated toolset. There were some amazing mods for DA and I can't wait to see what can be accomplished with its sequel.

Here's to hoping!

[FurousJoe]

Icinix wrote...

Really? Considering Legends is in 'dark beta' I've been very impressed by it. As far as Facebook games though, it's none to shabbeh.

So you're impressed by a game where you essentially have to spend real money, or wait pretty much 24 hour between every 20 minute play session or less?
Or what about gamebreaking abilities/spells that maul your character if you don't have any good allies to bring with you? Thus again forcing you to wait to reuse your good allies?
Or what about the only equipment worth using is the ones you have to buy from real money?

Do you want me to go on?

[Beerfish]

A few improvements and fixes to the toolset would really amp up the quantity of communtiy made modules and such. Hopefully after DA2 release we can get a bit of time dedicated to helping the toolset community. Not a ton of issues to look at in my mind but a couple of big ones.

[elearon1]

Ravenfeeder wrote...
Or it could be that the NWN toolset was specifically designed for the end user and has been out for many, many years.  For the really good adventures it can take years for a mod team to a) learn what the toolset can do and then produce somethig substantial.  Although some modders are just super-gifted and produce something excellent without learning all the tricks first.

I'm actually surprised we haven't seen more modules released for Dragon Age; about a year after release NWN had a decent handful of modules out worth playing and they continued to stream out for years afterword. (in fact, I so hated the base NWN campaign that I only ever played Mods, and after repurchasing the game a year out I was so occupied by decent modules I never once had to look back) 

Mind, the quick release of DA2 may have something to do with this - few modders seeing the value in learning the DA system if there are going to be changes to DA2's toolset which will force them to learn all over again.  I had hoped DA would have been more like NWN, releasing expansions over time to make their money, but providing the community with the tools and support to build solid mods as well. (I'd readily subscribe to an updated NWN business model)

[TRSniper4]

I like modding tools, since they can be used to fix bugs that won't be fixed in patches. For example, the Silverite Mine Bug in Dragon Age: Awakening required me to take off my clothing before entering the mine, or I'd lose my stuff. Thanks to the unofficial patch, however, I can play normally and not break my role playing.

[Fadook]

elearon1 wrote...

Ravenfeeder wrote...
Or it could be that the NWN toolset was specifically designed for the end user and has been out for many, many years.  For the really good adventures it can take years for a mod team to a) learn what the toolset can do and then produce somethig substantial.  Although some modders are just super-gifted and produce something excellent without learning all the tricks first.

I'm actually surprised we haven't seen more modules released for Dragon Age; about a year after release NWN had a decent handful of modules out worth playing and they continued to stream out for years afterword. (in fact, I so hated the base NWN campaign that I only ever played Mods, and after repurchasing the game a year out I was so occupied by decent modules I never once had to look back) 

Mind, the quick release of DA2 may have something to do with this - few modders seeing the value in learning the DA system if there are going to be changes to DA2's toolset which will force them to learn all over again.  I had hoped DA would have been more like NWN, releasing expansions over time to make their money, but providing the community with the tools and support to build solid mods as well. (I'd readily subscribe to an updated NWN business model)

I think a big part of the reason that there were loads of NWN modules is that area design in the NWN toolset was relatively easy. I only dabbled in it, but the tileset system made creating areas pretty simple. The disadvantage was that there were a fairly limited number of tilesets orginally so areas began to look the same. Of course, the wonderflu community alleviated the problem by creating loads of custom tilesets.

From what I've read on this forum, the DA toolset isn't as simple to use and there's less documentation available. The sheer time and effort needed to create an adventure is probably why there are few custom adventures out there.