124 réponses à ce sujet

[Mihura]

LPPrince wrote...

Mihura wrote...

Ok, I am assuming that you are joking and I misspell something sorry about that, English is no my first language.

No joke, he's actually going to use it. No sarcasm detected. You're good.

Is hard to tell over the internet lol

I still do not know why people think that having other origins gives the player more freedom, more choices maybe and it is a choice in a visual sense because I only see a different model in the end is the same (aside from some extra lines). Although I would must like to have the possibility to have a elf that cannot be and I was really disappointed that bioware took that.

A person like me that likes to use imagination to fill the blanks, having so many choices is great but in a realist way this really do not take anything way because it was not there in the first place. Even with default characters people still found new ways to look at them, just look at the fanart and fanfics all over the net.

Modifié par Mihura, 12 juillet 2010 - 12:58 .

[LPPrince]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

DaySeeker wrote...

The "predefined character" thing still confuses and disturbs me. I appreciate Ms. Kirby's response, but I don't see how space marine saving the universe is more predefined than fantasy hero saving a continent. We chose Shep's background, gender, appearance, squad, abilities, morality, clothing choice, actions, etc. The whole predefined thing came up, as far as I know, in the "why can't Shep be gay" (very lame) explanation. I wish we could just drop that flimsy response (or have it explained in a way that made sense). I hope we have, if not gay romance options, than the option to be gay in DA2.

Just the fact that Shepard's a marine says infinitely more than has been said about Hawke. We know Hawke's last name and that he's human. That's IT. Oh, and that he fled Lothering.

As far as choosing Shep's background, that's exactly it. We chose it from a list of 3 options during character creation. It gets mentioned a couple of times, but that's all. It doesn't affect gameplay in any meaningful way that he was the Lone Survivor or the War Hero or the street thief one (whatever it was called). In DA2, Hawke's pretty much a blank slate. We don't choose his personality from a list, we LIVE it out.

In Mass Effect, you choose background and history-

Spacer/Colonist/Earthborn

and then

War Hero/Sole Survivor/Ruthless

Speaking of the pre-defined-so-not-gay thing and Shep's variety of origins, I pointed out aaaages ago on the ME2 board that if you do the math Shep has more background options than the Warden.
Warden = 7 backgrounds.
Shep = 9 backgrounds.

The Warden has 7? 2 Dwarf origins, 2 Elf origins, 1 Human origin, 1 Mage origin.

Wouldn't that be 6?

[Mihura]

LPPrince wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

DaySeeker wrote...

The "predefined character" thing still confuses and disturbs me. I appreciate Ms. Kirby's response, but I don't see how space marine saving the universe is more predefined than fantasy hero saving a continent. We chose Shep's background, gender, appearance, squad, abilities, morality, clothing choice, actions, etc. The whole predefined thing came up, as far as I know, in the "why can't Shep be gay" (very lame) explanation. I wish we could just drop that flimsy response (or have it explained in a way that made sense). I hope we have, if not gay romance options, than the option to be gay in DA2.

Just the fact that Shepard's a marine says infinitely more than has been said about Hawke. We know Hawke's last name and that he's human. That's IT. Oh, and that he fled Lothering.

As far as choosing Shep's background, that's exactly it. We chose it from a list of 3 options during character creation. It gets mentioned a couple of times, but that's all. It doesn't affect gameplay in any meaningful way that he was the Lone Survivor or the War Hero or the street thief one (whatever it was called). In DA2, Hawke's pretty much a blank slate. We don't choose his personality from a list, we LIVE it out.

In Mass Effect, you choose background and history-

Spacer/Colonist/Earthborn

and then

War Hero/Sole Survivor/Ruthless

Speaking of the pre-defined-so-not-gay thing and Shep's variety of origins, I pointed out aaaages ago on the ME2 board that if you do the math Shep has more background options than the Warden.
Warden = 7 backgrounds.
Shep = 9 backgrounds.

The Warden has 7? 2 Dwarf origins, 2 Elf origins, 1 Human origin, 1 Mage origin.

Wouldn't that be 6?

No, I think you can be either a human Mage or elf Mage so it is 2 Mage origin

[Iakus]

condiments1 wrote...


The nameless one is one of the most rich and interesting characters in all of gaming, but the options to roleplay him were vast. If Bioware can provide a similar experience, I would be quite happy.

However forgive me for having low expectations.

Understandable.  I too have lost my "Bioware made it, so it must be good" reflex.  However.  I still have enough faith to keep an interested eye on the game.  A predetermined character doesn't automatically mean  a bad roleplay experience.  We don't have the options tast DAO gave us.  So we'll just have to see what options we are given.  And judge from there.

[Jimmy Fury]

LPPrince wrote...
The Warden has 7? 2 Dwarf origins, 2 Elf origins, 1 Human origin, 1 Mage origin.

Wouldn't that be 6?

2 mage origins if you count Human mage and Elf mage as different backgrounds. They do come with some different dialogue.

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 12 juillet 2010 - 01:03 .

[Jimmy Fury]

double post. sorry.

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 12 juillet 2010 - 01:04 .

[LPPrince]

Mihura wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

DaySeeker wrote...

The "predefined character" thing still confuses and disturbs me. I appreciate Ms. Kirby's response, but I don't see how space marine saving the universe is more predefined than fantasy hero saving a continent. We chose Shep's background, gender, appearance, squad, abilities, morality, clothing choice, actions, etc. The whole predefined thing came up, as far as I know, in the "why can't Shep be gay" (very lame) explanation. I wish we could just drop that flimsy response (or have it explained in a way that made sense). I hope we have, if not gay romance options, than the option to be gay in DA2.

Just the fact that Shepard's a marine says infinitely more than has been said about Hawke. We know Hawke's last name and that he's human. That's IT. Oh, and that he fled Lothering.

As far as choosing Shep's background, that's exactly it. We chose it from a list of 3 options during character creation. It gets mentioned a couple of times, but that's all. It doesn't affect gameplay in any meaningful way that he was the Lone Survivor or the War Hero or the street thief one (whatever it was called). In DA2, Hawke's pretty much a blank slate. We don't choose his personality from a list, we LIVE it out.

In Mass Effect, you choose background and history-

Spacer/Colonist/Earthborn

and then

War Hero/Sole Survivor/Ruthless

Speaking of the pre-defined-so-not-gay thing and Shep's variety of origins, I pointed out aaaages ago on the ME2 board that if you do the math Shep has more background options than the Warden.
Warden = 7 backgrounds.
Shep = 9 backgrounds.

The Warden has 7? 2 Dwarf origins, 2 Elf origins, 1 Human origin, 1 Mage origin.

Wouldn't that be 6?

No, I think you can be either a human Mage or elf Mage so it is 2 Mage origin

You're forgetting that you're shoehorned into the Mage origin no matter if you're Human of Elf.

You're either-

Human Noble
Dwarf Noble
Dwarf Commoner
City Elf
Dalish Elf
Mage(Human/Elf make no difference)

So its 6. And in DA2, we'll get the Human Commoner origin they ditched Pre-DAO.

[LPPrince]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
The Warden has 7? 2 Dwarf origins, 2 Elf origins, 1 Human origin, 1 Mage origin.

Wouldn't that be 6?

2 mage origins if you count Human mage and Elf mage as different backgrounds. They do come with some different dialogue.

Yeah, but its not recognized as two separate origins.

[SirOccam]

LPPrince wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

DaySeeker wrote...

The "predefined character" thing still confuses and disturbs me. I appreciate Ms. Kirby's response, but I don't see how space marine saving the universe is more predefined than fantasy hero saving a continent. We chose Shep's background, gender, appearance, squad, abilities, morality, clothing choice, actions, etc. The whole predefined thing came up, as far as I know, in the "why can't Shep be gay" (very lame) explanation. I wish we could just drop that flimsy response (or have it explained in a way that made sense). I hope we have, if not gay romance options, than the option to be gay in DA2.

Just the fact that Shepard's a marine says infinitely more than has been said about Hawke. We know Hawke's last name and that he's human. That's IT. Oh, and that he fled Lothering.

As far as choosing Shep's background, that's exactly it. We chose it from a list of 3 options during character creation. It gets mentioned a couple of times, but that's all. It doesn't affect gameplay in any meaningful way that he was the Lone Survivor or the War Hero or the street thief one (whatever it was called). In DA2, Hawke's pretty much a blank slate. We don't choose his personality from a list, we LIVE it out.

In Mass Effect, you choose background and history-

Spacer/Colonist/Earthborn

and then

War Hero/Sole Survivor/Ruthless

Err, that's right; my mistake. But the point remains...those choices have almost no impact on the story more significant than someone saying "Shepard was _________." At least in DAO you experience the backstory yourself and can choose the attitude of the Warden during and after. With Shepard you just choose how it was from a list and that's that.

[Jimmy Fury]

LPPrince wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
The Warden has 7? 2 Dwarf origins, 2 Elf origins, 1 Human origin, 1 Mage origin.

Wouldn't that be 6?

2 mage origins if you count Human mage and Elf mage as different backgrounds. They do come with some different dialogue.

Yeah, but its not recognized as two separate origins.

Origins no. But to properly compare the two I go with backgrounds.

[LPPrince]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
The Warden has 7? 2 Dwarf origins, 2 Elf origins, 1 Human origin, 1 Mage origin.

Wouldn't that be 6?

2 mage origins if you count Human mage and Elf mage as different backgrounds. They do come with some different dialogue.

Yeah, but its not recognized as two separate origins.

Origins no. But to properly compare the two I go with backgrounds.

I just compare the Origins, so for me its 6.

Regardless, its less that ME's 9, but DAO's 6 have more involvement than ME's 9.

So far, at least. For all we know, the background and service history of Shepard could play a much bigger role in ME3.

[Jimmy Fury]

SirOccam wrote...
Err, that's right; my mistake. But the point remains...those choices have almost no impact on the story more significant than someone saying "Shepard was _________." At least in DAO you experience the backstory yourself and can choose the attitude of the Warden during and after. With Shepard you just choose how it was from a list and that's that.

Still not seeing the difference myself. After you get to ostagar it's the exact same story no matter what. You always go with duncan, you always go to ostagar, you always survive the joining, you always end up in flemeth's hut, etc etc etc.
Every difference after ostagar is either dialogue or is based solely on the choices you make from then out.

To my knowledge the one and only exception to this is if you're Dalish you can't slaughter the Dalish (I think, saw someone asking about it on a board somewhere)

[_-Greywolf-_]

LPPrince wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
The Warden has 7? 2 Dwarf origins, 2 Elf origins, 1 Human origin, 1 Mage origin.

Wouldn't that be 6?

2 mage origins if you count Human mage and Elf mage as different backgrounds. They do come with some different dialogue.

Yeah, but its not recognized as two separate origins.

Origins no. But to properly compare the two I go with backgrounds.

I just compare the Origins, so for me its 6.

Regardless, its less that ME's 9, but DAO's 6 have more involvement than ME's 9.

So far, at least. For all we know, the background and service history of Shepard could play a much bigger role in ME3.

But they wont, why what are you expecting? That there be a playable flashback of Akuze, Elysium or Torfan depending on your background? While I think that would be a cool idea I highly doubt that it would happen, if they diddnt bother much about your backround in the first 2 games (Mass Effect 2 squandered the perfect chance to explore Commander Shepards character and past, we all know that Mass Effect 2 was just filler material to lead up to Mass Effect 3 so why couldnt they have used it to explore Commander Shepards past and find the answers to what made him the man we see now?) I doubt they will in 3.

Modifié par _-Greywolf-_, 12 juillet 2010 - 01:25 .

[darkrose]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Still not seeing the difference myself. After you get to ostagar it's the exact same story no matter what. You always go with duncan, you always go to ostagar, you always survive the joining, you always end up in flemeth's hut, etc etc etc.
Every difference after ostagar is either dialogue or is based solely on the choices you make from then out.

For me, the choices that I make throughout the game are in part dependent on my origin. 

For example, there is no way on the Maker's green earth that my Tabris is ever going to spare the man responsible for selling her friends and family and very nearly her father into slavery. It's just not going to happen. She will always put Alistair on the throne because she thinks that he'll be better for her people's future than Anora would. My Aeducan princess will never put Alistair on the throne if she's in a romance with him, because she's seen what royal power games did to her family, and she's not going to inflict that on someone she cares about. My Mahariel thinks that Zathrian is being perfectly reasonable, and that no compromise is necessary or desireable--and she's the only one of my characters who chooses that option.

My concern with DA2 is that with Hawke's background pre-determined, it's going to force the story in a specific direction. I'm also nervous about the fact that while you can supposedly play a female Hawke, the only one who's been referenced anywhere is the male version. I hope that the female Hawke isn't just the male version with the pronouns changed.

Modifié par darkrose, 13 juillet 2010 - 02:55 .

[ozenglish]

Mary Kirby wrote...

And you are totally not going to trick me into talking about what the romance options are yet. Don't even try.

Damn, that was just shot down right there lol... and very efficiently so.

[wwwwowwww]

darkrose wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Still not seeing the difference myself. After you get to ostagar it's the exact same story no matter what. You always go with duncan, you always go to ostagar, you always survive the joining, you always end up in flemeth's hut, etc etc etc.
Every difference after ostagar is either dialogue or is based solely on the choices you make from then out.

For me, the choices that I make throughout the game are in part dependent on my origin. 

For example, there is no way on the Maker's green earth that my Tabris is ever going to spare the man responsible for selling her friends and family and very nearly her father into slavery. It's just not going to happen. She will always put Alistair on the throne because she thinks that he'll be better for her people's future than Anora would. My Aeducan princess will never put Alistair on the throne if she's in a romance with him, because she's seen what royal power games did to her family, and she's not going to inflict that on someone she cares about. My Mahariel thinks that Zathrian is being perfectly reasonable, and that no compromise is necessary or desireable--and she's the only one of my characters who chooses that option.

My concern with DA2 is that with Hawke's background pre-determined, it's going to force the story in a specific direction. I'm also nervous about the fact that while you can supposedly play a female Hawke, the only one who's been referenced anywhere is the male version. I hope that the female Hawke isn't just the male version with the pronouns changed.

All of these seem like choices you made on your own that had nothing to really do with the origin of your character. All choices that you could have still made should you have been only a human, or only an elf or only a dwarf.
Granted the origin may have given you more of a reason to choose certain things, but you still had to choose it.

I would assume(bad word) that you will still be given choices in DA:2 and depending on how you've played the character up until then you can choose how to respond or what to do, just like you did in DA:O

[Jimmy Fury]

darkrose wrote...
For me, the choices that I make throughout the game are in part dependent on my origin. 

For example, there is no way on the Maker's green earth that my Tabris is ever going to spare the man responsible for selling her friends and family and very nearly her father into slavery. It's just not going to happen. She will always put Alistair on the throne because she thinks that he'll be better for her people's future than Anora would. My Aeducan princess will never put Alistair on the throne if she's in a romance with him, because she's seen what royal power games did to her family, and she's not going to inflict that on someone she cares about. My Mahariel thinks that Zathrian is being perfectly reasonable, and that no compromise is necessary or desireable--and she's the only one of my characters who chooses that option.

My concern with DA2 is that with Hawke's background pre-determined, it's going to force the story in a specific direction. I'm also nervous about the fact that while you can supposedly play a female Hawke, the only one who's been referenced anywhere is the male version. I hope that the female Hawke isn't just the male version with the pronouns changed.

The choices you make yes. Not the choices you are given.
I don't see why those same choices can't be present in DA2. Just because Hawke is human doesn't mean s/he can't sympathize with Dwarves and Elves. Perhaps that's one of the many things we'll get to control to build up the character. Perhaps dilemma's will come up and our feelings for our companions will play a role in what we do.

I myself do hope female hawke is just the male version with the pronouns changed. I hate it when stories act like women can't have the same experiences as men or vice versa.

[In Exile]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

The choices you make yes. Not the choices you are given.
I don't see why those same choices can't be present in DA2. Just because Hawke is human doesn't mean s/he can't sympathize with Dwarves and Elves. Perhaps that's one of the many things we'll get to control to build up the character. Perhaps dilemma's will come up and our feelings for our companions will play a role in what we do.

I myself do hope female hawke is just the male version with the pronouns changed. I hate it when stories act like women can't have the same experiences as men or vice versa.

I think the issue is the degree to which people see a characer as fixed versus variable. Add VO, and for some people, a character becomes something incredibly fixed versus variable. For whatever reason, even if all the reactions are identical, even if all the dialogue options are identical, even if all the choices are identical (including identical origins!) there is some special thing that somepeople will attach to a character only in the absence of VO that will differentiate one from the other.

But the same thing is apparently impossible with VO.

[LPPrince]

_-Greywolf-_ wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
The Warden has 7? 2 Dwarf origins, 2 Elf origins, 1 Human origin, 1 Mage origin.

Wouldn't that be 6?

2 mage origins if you count Human mage and Elf mage as different backgrounds. They do come with some different dialogue.

Yeah, but its not recognized as two separate origins.

Origins no. But to properly compare the two I go with backgrounds.

I just compare the Origins, so for me its 6.

Regardless, its less that ME's 9, but DAO's 6 have more involvement than ME's 9.

So far, at least. For all we know, the background and service history of Shepard could play a much bigger role in ME3.

But they wont, why what are you expecting? That there be a playable flashback of Akuze, Elysium or Torfan depending on your background? While I think that would be a cool idea I highly doubt that it would happen, if they diddnt bother much about your backround in the first 2 games (Mass Effect 2 squandered the perfect chance to explore Commander Shepards character and past, we all know that Mass Effect 2 was just filler material to lead up to Mass Effect 3 so why couldnt they have used it to explore Commander Shepards past and find the answers to what made him the man we see now?) I doubt they will in 3.

ME2 wasn't filler. It was the middle of a trilogy. It automatically suffers from not having an epic beginning or end. It has to carry the series BETWEEN epics.

On top of that, the ME series is mostly about moving forward. It doesn't have to or need to go back to Shepard's past.

BUT, that doesn't mean we won't get a lot of involvement on Shepard's background of where he/she was born or their service history. We don't need to see what happened at for example, Akuze(Sole Survivor). But we can settle Shepard's demons once and for all.

But that's about Mass Effect. Lets head back to DA2.

[FDrage]

LPPrince wrote...

BUT, that doesn't mean we won't get a lot of involvement on Shepard's background of where he/she was born or their service history. We don't need to see what happened at for example, Akuze(Sole Survivor). But we can settle Shepard's demons once and for all.

But but that mission in regard to Akuze was one of the most emotional parts I ever had in ME1 ... when I discovered my charm skill wasn't high enough .

LPPrince wrote...

But that's about Mass Effect. Lets head back to DA2.

Good idea ... even so that specific aspect of ME is an interesting one.


I'm not sure it makes so much of a difference if you got 1 or 6 origines. Specifically with the 1 (human commoner ... yeah finally we got the commoner origin that wouldn't have worked in teh first game ... or so it might be) still being able to be all 3 classes and as mages where treeded as a sepearete origin in the first game and not part of and elf or human origin one could construe that we got 2 "origins" right here.

The funny thing is that before DAO either a completely open background (aka nothing was given) or a sort of predefined (aka background) character (I'm not taking here merely about 1 fxed character so) was given. No that we had orgins as a nice intyeresting novel side note. everyone expects this to be the norm. I would guess that to make it work properly you need also a lot more work then if you would have only 1 origin. Work that they could invest in other areas of the story, game, mechanics etc.

So overall aren't people limiting themselves and there own imagination prior to the game too much but thinking a traditional single "origin" limites themselves tooo much? Do we let ourselves be limited by any games limitations? Every game is limited in one way or they other and what makes it different is what we do with the gaps, etc. that will always be there and fill them with our own imagination, regardless of if the game reacts to it or not.

Modifié par FDrage, 13 juillet 2010 - 08:14 .

[darkrose]

[quote]Jimmy Fury wrote...
The choices you make yes. Not the choices you are given.
I don't see why those same choices can't be present in DA2. Just because Hawke is human doesn't mean s/he can't sympathize with Dwarves and Elves. Perhaps that's one of the many things we'll get to control to build up the character. Perhaps dilemma's will come up and our feelings for our companions will play a role in what we do.
[/quote]

Sympathizing isn't the same thing as understanding and having your life experience be informed by who you are.

In any given situation, the choices that I make for my character come out of who they are and what they've experienced, both before and after Ostagar. Because their backgrounds are different, each character is going to experience the game differently....which is why I'm working on my fourth playthrough. I'm sure there will be branching paths in DA2; but for me, at least, limiting the backstory means limiting the possible responses.

[quote]
I myself do hope female hawke is just the male version with the pronouns changed. I hate it when stories act like women can't have the same experiences as men or vice versa. [/quote]
[/quote]

In a world with medieval-level tech--even one that claims full gender equality--women aren't going to have the same experiences as men. To take the most obvious one, the whole problem with putting Alistair on the throne if you're in a romance with him is that you can't provide him an heir. The reason I like the City Elf origin so much as a female character is that there's an immediacy to it--you have a vested interest in protecting yourself. 

That said, I'd rather a pronoun swap that yet another female character with rape as a backstory. That got really old really fast.

Modifié par darkrose, 14 juillet 2010 - 07:45 .

[darkrose]

In Exile wrote...

I think the issue is the degree to which people see a characer as fixed versus variable. Add VO, and for some people, a character becomes something incredibly fixed versus variable. For whatever reason, even if all the reactions are identical, even if all the dialogue options are identical, even if all the choices are identical (including identical origins!) there is some special thing that somepeople will attach to a character only in the absence of VO that will differentiate one from the other.

But the same thing is apparently impossible with VO.

I'm not happy with the VO, but that's a separate issue from my problems with limiting the origin to human. The VO thing is a lot more simple: I'll have to really like the voice actor. If my character is giving dialogue, especially dialogue that's not exactly what I chose, I'm not going to be able to yank my headphones out to avoid listing to a voice that's like nails on a chalkboard to me--like I do every time Isolde or Marjolaine speaks.

[ankuu]

dang man, everyone writes rouge instead of ROGUE!

[Dwarf-Thane]

wwwwowwww wrote...

All of these seem like choices you made on your own that had nothing to really do with the origin of your character. All choices that you could have still made should you have been only a human, or only an elf or only a dwarf.
Granted the origin may have given you more of a reason to choose certain things, but you still had to choose it.

I would assume(bad word) that you will still be given choices in DA:2 and depending on how you've played the character up until then you can choose how to respond or what to do, just like you did in DA:O

My dwarf noble killed his betraying brother Bhelen and made Harrowmont king.  My dwarf "commoner" was much more interested in the plight of his sister and that of casteless in general which Bhelen was by far the better choice to further.  My human didn't have as much vested in it, so he picked Harrowmont, who seemed like a nicer guy.  One of my dwarves had Vaughan give him 40 gold and his support at Landsmeet.  No way in hell my city elf would have even thought of dealing with him.  Origins played a huge part in how each character developed and how I felt about the decisions I had to make.  They made the game richer even if you only did one playthrough and made multiple playthroughs much more interesting.

Losing Origins is hugely disappointing.  Losing any choice of race at all is intolerable.

Modifié par Dwarf-Thane, 14 juillet 2010 - 10:47 .

[Bryy_Miller]

LPPrince wrote...

Mihura wrote...

Ok, I am assuming that you are joking and I misspell something sorry about that, English is no my first language.

No joke, he's actually going to use it. No sarcasm detected. You're good.

So as of now, I have at least four male playthroughs figured out:
* Howard (he'll be the lawful neutral)
* Greywolf (ehhhh... more chaotic good)
* Othello (going off Shakespeare.... Chaotic Neutral)
* Conando (not Chaotic Evil, just mischevious)