27 réponses à ce sujet

[Bobad]

I have been quite amused reading some of the rants de-crying this game as a betrayal, mass market appealling cash cow and Mass Effect hybrid.

Given the quality of Bioware's games over the years, all of which I own, bar Sonic Chronicles as I never saw the point of a blue Hedgehog collecting rings, I have never ever been disappointed.

With this in mind I am somewhat curious as to why people seem so upset with regard to a game only noted with a few bullet points and vague concept art, seriously these lads and lasses have given us some of the best and most immersive gameplay I have ever seen.

I understand connection to the characters created within Origins, however this isn't Origins and I never did see mention of a promise that Your Warden will continue throughout this franchise until you are tired rather than keeping the franchise fresh for devotees and appealing to newcomers.

This is only my opinion and I am interested in others.

[andar91]

I agree with everything you said. Not that Bioware can't make mistakes, but I trust them more than any other game designers. I understand people having strong reactions to change, but I'm shocked at how extreme the reactions have been when you take into account the amount of information that we have so far.

[Gambient]

andar91 wrote...

I agree with everything you said. Not that Bioware can't make mistakes, but I trust them more than any other game designers. I understand people having strong reactions to change, but I'm shocked at how extreme the reactions have been when you take into account the amount of information that we have so far.

Also at the end of the day I am 100% sure everyone here (including the whiners) will buy DA2. So it's whatever.

[javierabegazo]

While I may not share this view, this is the best post I've seen and really makes me understand where the people who are disappointed are coming from

[AllThatJazz]

Agree with OP. Though at the same time, it is kind of lovely that there are such hardcore fans of Origins that they are genuinely upset at the idea of not continuing their story. Speaks well of the strengths of the game. I'm happy for a new story, as I've achieved closure with all my DA1 people.x

[Kinkaku]

Gambient wrote...

andar91 wrote...

I agree with everything you said. Not that Bioware can't make mistakes, but I trust them more than any other game designers. I understand people having strong reactions to change, but I'm shocked at how extreme the reactions have been when you take into account the amount of information that we have so far.

Also at the end of the day I am 100% sure everyone here (including the whiners) will buy DA2. So it's whatever.

I agree and I think people need to calm down before actually seeing more info, which is in limited quantity, people just need to wait and I have yet to be disapointed by Bioware's game's and since alot of people are willing to drop all faith in Bioware over so little info is quite pathetic

Modifié par Akiios, 11 juillet 2010 - 09:12 .

[NKKKK]

Aperchild is being reasonable there, but everyone else is a whiner

[Bobad]

NKKKK wrote...

Aperchild is being reasonable there, but everyone else is a whiner

I don't neccessarily think they are whining, just not focusing their disappointment in a constructive fashion, its very easy for people to react in a knee jerk fashion to a change they hadn't evisaged and think that this game will be the 'betrayal' mentioned due to their attachment to what has been a not only a fantastic game but a hugely enjoyable interactive and immersive experience. 

[SirOccam]

There have been a handful of very calm, reasonable people describing their worries with the game. Whether they are one of those or one of the insane ones threatening boycotts, though, the answer is always the same: give it time, wait and see.

For the first group, it's meant as reassurance that there is a very good chance that their worries will be dealt with. For the second, it's a rebuke of their ridiculously premature judgments.

[Davasar]

Just because a game isnt appealing to you doesnt make you insane. I did not buy Mass Effect because it is a bad game (I am sure it's a good game to those it was targeted for), I didnt buy it because it was NOT targeted to me as a gamer.

DA2 is another game not targeted to me. And thats fine. But, the sense of betrayal among many gamers is the thought of:

"I have been a loyal customer, and you didnt make a game for me that I want to buy. Why? I bought ever game targeted to me, and this last game (DAO) was the most successful and lucrative you've had, proving my peers and myself as an incredibly loyal fan base to sell to.  What did we do to make you cease to target us as the sales audience?"

There is no real answer for this other then ugly ones. I wont go into what they could or could not be. But anyone with an ounce of common sense can figure it out for themselves, and once deduced that leaves a bad taste in the mouths of the loyal fans who have been dumped by the way side.

Modifié par Davasar, 11 juillet 2010 - 09:39 .

[Bobad]

Davasar wrote...

Just because a game isnt appealing to you doesnt make you insane. I did not buy Mass Effect because it is a bad game (I am sure it's a good game to those it was targeted for), I didnt buy it because it was NOT targeted to me as a gamer.

DA2 is another game not targeted to me. And thats fine. But, the sense of betrayal among many gamers is the thought of:

"I have been a loyal customer, and you didnt make a game for me that I want to buy. Why? I bought ever game targeted to me, and this last game (DAO) was the most successful and lucrative you've had, proving my peers and myself as an incredibly loyal fan base to sell to.  What did we do to make you cease to target us as the sales audience?"

There is no real answer for this other then ugly ones. I wont go into what they could or could not be. But anyone with an ounce of common sense can figure it out for themselves, and once deduced that leaves a bad taste in the mouths of the loyal fans who have been dumped by the way side.

Some good points, well appreciated, however just because something is not targetted at you surely does not mean it will not be an experience you will enjoy?, I hate romantic films but was immeasurably touched by The Fountain and The Time Travellers Wife.  Joy can be found im those things you think hold you no appeal?

[AlanC9]

Davasar wrote...
There is no real answer for this other then ugly ones. I wont go into what they could or could not be

I can think of several non-ugly ones, actually. Bio didn't set out to screw folks who like open worlds when they got away from that in BG2. They just tried to make a better game.

[Davasar]

Bobad wrote...

Some good points, well appreciated, however just because something is not targetted at you surely does not mean it will not be an experience you will enjoy?, I hate romantic films but was immeasurably touched by The Fountain and The Time Travellers Wife.  Joy can be found im those things you think hold you no appeal?

I see your point Bobad.  Part of the problem for me, and many of the other gamers is that due to the choices made by the makers themselves it's a non-starter for us.

Personally, it comes down to character.  I want to create it, name it with a connection to the universe with a family if possible, and choose race, etc.

If all of these things are not met at the get go, I am not immersed.  To many of us, it makes the game feel like a chooce your own adventure playing EAowares character, not our own.

Not a bad anology by the way, so I will use one of my own to attempt to illustrate the point.

Someone makes a delicious sandwich for me.  But I hate tomatoes.  I bite into the sandwich, and I taste tomatoes in the sandwich.  While the rest of the sandwich maybe good, that awful taste permeates throughout the sandwich.

The sandwich therefore is unsalvagable.

Had they told me tomatoes were on it in the first place, I wouldnt eat it.

Because I know I hate tomatoes.

And for those Smart ***es who will say "Pull off the tomatoes" I acompletely agree.  Get rid of Hawke and let me make my own character with race and other choices then. 

Modifié par Davasar, 11 juillet 2010 - 09:58 .

[Bobad]

Off Topic (perhaps?) - Surely the combined ingredients of the sandwich are greater than their constituent parts?, I hate celerery but once noticed such at the bottom of a delectable Casear Salad Bowl...

[Davasar]

Bobad wrote...

Off Topic (perhaps?) - Surely the combined ingredients of the sandwich are greater than their constituent parts?, I hate celerery but once noticed such at the bottom of a delectable Casear Salad Bowl...

There in lay the crux of the problem

You can tolerate celery, I cannot tolerate tomatoes...and if I am paying for the food, why eat something I dont like?  I dont, therefore I dont buy what I dont like.

Food for thought....no pun intended

Modifié par Davasar, 11 juillet 2010 - 10:48 .

[SirOccam]

Davasar wrote...

Just because a game isnt appealing to you doesnt make you insane. I did not buy Mass Effect because it is a bad game (I am sure it's a good game to those it was targeted for), I didnt buy it because it was NOT targeted to me as a gamer.

No one said everyone who isn't 100% thoroughly in favor of every bit of news they've heard is insane. What's insane are the people flying off the handle, making doomsday predictions about the future of BioWare, threatening boycotts, rendering judgments on the quality of the game, etc. Personally I think it's even a little insane to decide NOW that you're not going to buy the game, even if you don't take the rhetoric to a more extreme level.

Davasar wrote...

Bobad wrote...

Off Topic
(perhaps?) - Surely the combined ingredients of the sandwich are
greater than their constituent parts?, I hate celerery but once noticed
such at the bottom of a delectable Casear Salad Bowl...

There in lay the crux of the problem ../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png

You
can tolerate celery, I cannot tolerate tomatoes...and if I am paying
for the food, why eat something I dont like?  I dont, therefore I dont
buy what I dont like.

Food for thought....no pun intended

But in this analogy, the stuff coming up in DA2 isn't a food you already know you don't like. It's a food you've only heard of, and you're assuming you won't like it. Don't make me break out my pomegranate/banana analogy again. I'll tell you the same thing I tell my neice when she refuses to try a new food: "Try it, you might like it."

You clearly don't like Mass Effect (although even that is an assumption, as you just said you didn't buy it, not that you tried it and didn't like it). But I highly doubt it was specifically having the text options in a wheel instead of a list that turned you off. Also I'm willing to bet it wasn't the concept of having a voiced main character. What I respectfully suggest is happening here is you are hearing so many people make the assertion that "DA2 = Mass Effect" that you are buying into it. If enough people say it often enough, people start to think it's true. It happens all the time.

It might have a few things in common with Mass Effect, but it's still the Dragon Age team working on it. The Mass Effect team is entirely separate. The DA team made an amazing game (more than) once already, they can probably do it again. Have faith. Or if not that, then as the thread title suggests, patience.

Modifié par SirOccam, 11 juillet 2010 - 11:09 .

[Bobad]

However the taste of one element in a more constituated recipe may enhance a flavour previously despised and perhaps ill-experienced no?

[Davasar]

Save that for me: not having it be my character is a deal breaker, and always will be. I do not want to play a human named Hawke. I dont like that.

Some of you might be able to tolerate it, or even like it. For myself and other gamers like me, it's a no sale.

I am sure you will enjoy the game that was targeted to you and the kind of gamer you are, and so very obviously not targeted to me and the kind of gamer I am

Remember, I did say that Mass Effect and ME2 were probably good games...they just werent games for me and many others.

DAO was the game targeted to me and the kinds of gamers that enjoy the things out of DAO.

We did not ask, nor did we want another version of ME2 no matter how watered down.  We wanted DAO, with more new features, and improvement on existing ones.

Is that so tough?

Apparently so.

Modifié par Davasar, 11 juillet 2010 - 11:14 .

[MartinJHolm]

NKKKK wrote...

Aperchild is being reasonable there, but everyone else is a whiner

And you are definitly a troll.

Davasar wrote...

Remember, I did say
that Mass Effect and ME2 were probably good games...they just werent
games for me and many others.

DAO was the game targeted to me and
the kinds of gamers that enjoy the things out of DAO.

We did not
ask, nor did we want another version of ME2 no matter how watered
down.  We wanted DAO, with more new features, and improvement on
existing ones.

Is that so tough? ../../../images/forum/emoticons/wondering.png

Apparently so. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/sad.png

Totally agree.

Modifié par MartinJHolm, 11 juillet 2010 - 11:16 .

[hexaligned]

javierabegazo wrote...

While I may not share this view, this is the best post I've seen and really makes me understand where the people who are disappointed are coming from

heh, you actually get a little ban hammer graphic over peoples heads?  That's too awesome.

Modifié par relhart, 11 juillet 2010 - 11:15 .

[Bobad]

Davasar wrote...

Save that for me: not having it be my character is a deal breaker, and always will be. I do not want to play a human named Hawke. I dont like that.

Some of you might be able to tolerate it, or even like it. For myself and other gamers like me, it's a no sale.

I am sure you will enjoy the game that was targeted to you and the kind of gamer you are, and so very obviously not targeted to me and the kind of gamer I am

Remember, I did say that Mass Effect and ME2 were probably good games...they just werent games for me and many others.

DAO was the game targeted to me and the kinds of gamers that enjoy the things out of DAO.

We did not ask, nor did we want another version of ME2 no matter how watered down.  We wanted DAO, with more new features, and improvement on existing ones.

Is that so tough?

Apparently so.

I respect your stance and hope you reconsider, have fun regardless

Modifié par Bobad, 11 juillet 2010 - 11:17 .

[Davasar]

I also respect what you were saying, and did see your point.

[SirOccam]

Davasar wrote...

Save that for me: not having it be my character is a deal breaker, and always will be. I do not want to play a human named Hawke. I dont like that.

Some of you might be able to tolerate it, or even like it. For myself and other gamers like me, it's a no sale.

Well as long as you are willing to acknowledge that it's your own taste at issue here (and it seems you are), then I have no problem with that. Others seem to prefer to berate BioWare for it, as though anything diverging from their own personal taste is inherently bad design.

In either case, I'd still urge you to give it a shot regardless of whether you think it's "for" you or not. You might like it anyway. And Mass Effect as well (especially ME2). It's always good to expand your horizons a bit.

[Davasar]

Yes, it is personal taste and preference. The game being targeted to us was DAO and we were very grateful that SOMEONE made a game breaking the mold of todays titles.  I will state it again, ME and ME2 game styles are NOT for me.  I want my character to be the one I am playing.  It's really that simple. 

But, to show I am not toally hard headed and to concede your points somewhat...I would go ahead and play the game........if I could pick my own race.

I know that wont happen, I am just saying.  I am not entirely closed to other ideas.

However, it is taking a step backwards to most people who seek that deep immersion when we lack the ability to make our own character.  If we are playing as someone else character, the immersion is not there and it makes for a much less enjoyable game experience.

Some might complain about game features, and for myself, I like that way DAO is compared to ME1 and 2. The interpretation of the dialogue based off general mood seems a bit hamfisted to me. I prefer to see exactly what my character will respond with before choosing it.

Again, these are preferences. But, it does leave a horrible taste in the mouth of those loyal fans who read Bioware decree this franchise was the spiritual successor of Balders Gate, and yet are taking great departures from both that highly vaunted game, and their own words.

Heh, as far as expanding horizons, I most like will when Star Wars Old Republic comes out...ya see, there I can make my own character

Modifié par Davasar, 11 juillet 2010 - 11:29 .

[Merci357]

Since this threat talks a bit about possible target audience... Is the Intersection of those who like Mass Effect as well as Dragon Age really that slim? I'm just curious, because I was under the impression that quite many on this very board have both icons under their user name. Or if you remember the old board, had everything from BG up to ME collected. Besides Sonic Chronicles I've played (and enjoyed) every BioWare game, of course, some more then others. I can't be that rare?