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[darth_lopez]

iakus wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Well, we learned that the Reapers are filled with thousands of programs (the personalities of the ascended organics maybe) and that they are a hybrid of machine and organic life. 


We know that they encourage organic life to grow and evolve until the point where they are numerous and advanced enough to be harvested to create new Reapers.

We know that the Protheans were never harvested (either being too few or resisted too much and too many were killed) to create new Reapers and that they, like the caretakers on the station, were genetically modified to be a slave race.

We've learned that their return in Part 3 will have something to do with dark energy.

I think part 2 was very much like TTT in LoTR. Lots of new characters, some character development, a secondary villian defeated (Sauraman was a stooge). I agree that the pacing was off but the overreaction and neurotic nitpicking of a few people on this forum is a little nuts. 

Actually most of this is speculation. 

We don't know that they are "filled with thousands of programs"  That's extrapolation from Sovereign's "we are each a nation" speech.

if you talk to legion you do find out due to geth interaction with the reapers they are filled with thousands of programs. otherwise i'd have kept thinking it was a single AI with a god complex.

It's also an assumption that advanced organic life is needed to make a Reaper.  Why is  22nd century humanity more suitable than  Stone Age Neanderthals?

Human neanderthals are outside the era of their last purge according to evelution. We do know they need Organic life for something aside gathering raw matierals betraying their species and expendable foto soldiers (which we find out from vigil) we can obviously see the Tubes of organic goo bieng pumped into a baby. What they need it for is unknow but we do know they need it for some aspect of their functionality.

It's also speculation (though one I share) that dark energy will be important in ME 3.  So far there is no connection between it and the Reapers.

agreed 

What we did learn is that 1) Reapers someow have an organic component that is necessary to make new Reapers. and 2) Protheans were altered by the Reapers to become Collectors. Both of these came in infodumps by EDI rather than through any real investigation on Shepard's part.


We learned nothing about:
Reaper origins, indoctrination, interactions with each other, past cullings.  We have no idea how the will reenter the Milky Way galaxy.  We have no weapons, or even ideas for weapons that would level the playing field against them.  Heck the Citadel has already backslid on believing in them, leaving Shepard in a worse position than ME 1.  In the end, we know very little more about reapers after ME2 than we did in ME1

Actually if you read the description of the thanix cannon you'd see it was miniaturized variant of sovereigns main gun. not necessarily as powerful but it downed a ship much larger than the SR2 in 2 shots. The player can turn over the collector base to cerberus for study and an attempt to producer anti-reaper tech of the reaper tech there (not like we see a whole lot of chances to actually learn about reapers in the vulnerabilities in both.) 

and we do learn abit about indocrtination primarily that they do not neceassarily stop at just husks. the Protheans were indoctrinated and re-engineered to fit the reapers purposes making them just as useful as before. we also learned that indoctrination still occurs even if the reaper is inactive. i can't say dead cause i'm not sure the derlect reaper in Hawking eta was dead. but it still occurs while they're inactive so we did learn a little bit more about it. it also causes halucinations and shared memories. (watch all the crew records on the reaper) and that the indoctrinated come to believe the reaper a god, we did learn for sure that dragon spikes aid the process as mobile implantation devices.  as we  thought we knew from  number 1 indoctrination is caused a high pitched frequency being emitted from the reaper while we had glimpses of a more passive method with saren  we did see it could clearly cause the indoctrinated mass amounts of pain with benezia (and saren at end game)

to argue that we know little of it is inacurate. we know enough we just don't know how the reapers cause it exactly 
because if i recall the derelect reaper was not emitting a strange signal. and considering it wasn't emitting the signal i'd find it a possibility that reapers have harvested thorian spores in the past  and mastered the technology cerberus was working on (thorian spore mind control we see this in one of the 3 cerberus labs in ME 1 as was exogeni) athey continue to let them live for mutual benefit being the sentient brain washing plants they are.  

and lets not forget that we learn a lot of useful political information in ME 2 that could aid us in ME 3. can't fight a galactic threat un-unified. Starters the true geth (legions geth) could form an alliance with quarians as it is shown they are peaceful in comparison to the heretics. lets not forget tuchanka (not sure how it goes with wrex's brother) but we do see they'd be willing to pull an assist under wrex (if i remember correctly). if you saved the Rachni Queen she pledges her race to your cause. alliances tend to be good with this sort of problem.


(Srry for 4th post >.<)

[darth_lopez]

smudboy wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...
Someone who gets it.

@smud why do you not comprehend the english that i am speaking? it is not unintelligible. and i said nearly the same thing as this guy.  you do seriously need your head checked if you are willing to argue this long over something that has been proven. ME 2 is a Sequel to ME 1 the story does continue to develop from the first even if it was pulled off poorly (except i thought it was a good sequel to each his own). So how can you seriously sit there trying to say it isn't a sequel?

I do not comprehend the English you are intending to speak, nor write.  I am not only stupid, but ignorant to the ways of your mind.

I have had my head examinted several times.  I am still lost.  This is probably because I am self-examining.

Please show the connection in simple, non-paragraph/non-rambling answers.  Point form would work.  Thank you kindly.

you know what i'm tired of dealing with you. you sir are pathetic you are completely wrong in regards to ME2 not being a sequel to ME 1 and it has been shown by multiple people. if you had any form of common sense you'd have seen it by now. You sir are more than just ignorant to the simple ways of my mind. The one real problem with smart people is that most of those who are can not simply get over themselves enough to admit they're wrong. at least intelligent folk can. Good Day i'm Tired of mud slinging due to the fact that i am tired of re-iterating my point. Which has been backed by 2 other forum users.

you are by far the biggest fool i have meet in my 2 years of being on the BW forums and i thought Ausieru was bad. my god. how wrong i was.

[darth_lopez]

iakus wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...

shepards story may just be that shepards attempts to combat the reapers. i know the majority of us are expecting some miracle on the field to stop them and end the shepard reaper arch as a whole but i think shepard may very well die in ME 3 with out stopping the reaper threat.

At this point, it would take a miracle to effectively combat the Reapers, given that pretty much all the lead time Shep bought for the galaxy was, um, "urinated" away after ME 1.

Shep's death may be an ending to ME 3, but I doubt it will be the "canon" ending.  I mean Shep dying:  been there, done that.  The emotional impact would definitely be dulled with repetition.

i suppose but it would allow them to end the shepard arch and they would have to pull alot of stuff out of the wood work to kill reapers in ME 3

(edit again sorry for tripple post)

Modifié par darth_lopez, 20 juillet 2010 - 09:15 .

[smudboy]

darth_lopez wrote...

smudboy wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...
Someone who gets it.

@smud why do you not comprehend the english that i am speaking? it is not unintelligible. and i said nearly the same thing as this guy.  you do seriously need your head checked if you are willing to argue this long over something that has been proven. ME 2 is a Sequel to ME 1 the story does continue to develop from the first even if it was pulled off poorly (except i thought it was a good sequel to each his own). So how can you seriously sit there trying to say it isn't a sequel?

I do not comprehend the English you are intending to speak, nor write.  I am not only stupid, but ignorant to the ways of your mind.

I have had my head examinted several times.  I am still lost.  This is probably because I am self-examining.

Please show the connection in simple, non-paragraph/non-rambling answers.  Point form would work.  Thank you kindly.

you know what i'm tired of dealing with you. you sir are pathetic you are completely wrong in regards to ME2 not being a sequel to ME 1 and it has been shown by multiple people. if you had any form of common sense you'd have seen it by now. You sir are more than just ignorant to the simple ways of my mind. The one real problem with smart people is that most of those who are can not simply get over themselves enough to admit they're wrong. at least intelligent folk can. Good Day i'm Tired of mud slinging due to the fact that i am tired of re-iterating my point. Which has been backed by 2 other forum users.

you are by far the biggest fool i have meet in my 2 years of being on the BW forums and i thought Ausieru was bad. my god. how wrong i was.

Dear Mr. darth_lopez
I cannot be "more" ignorant to the mysterious of your mind.  I simply don't know what you're talking about.

Let me try this again: how is ME2 a sequel to ME1?

I admit.  I am wrong.  I am stupid.  I am ignorant.  I do not understand.  I am worthless.  Please answer the question.  Please, help me.

Thanks.

Your resident BW guy,
smudboy

[Iakus]

darth_lopez wrote...

if you talk to legion you do find out due to geth interaction with the reapers they are filled with thousands of programs. otherwise i'd have kept thinking it was a single AI with a god complex.

Hmm, you're right.  That's the problem with getting Legion so late in the game.  It's easy to miss conversation topics with him.  Still we do not know where all those programs come from.  What possible method could the organic smoothie use to create them?  It raises more questions than it answers

Human neanderthals are outside the era of their last purge according to evelution. We do know they need Organic life for something aside gathering raw matierals betraying their species and expendable foto soldiers (which we find out from vigil) we can obviously see the Tubes of organic goo bieng pumped into a baby. What they need it for is unknow but we do know they need it for some aspect of their functionality.

Not just organic life, advanced organic life.  Neanderthals were just an example of a life form which, while intelligent, never achieved advanced technology.  But if a similar life from existed in the ME world, could the Reapers use them?  If humans never discovered the relay network and were still stuck in the solar system, would the Reapers have come after them?  Presumably, they'd leave varren alone.  Why?  Why not a varren Reaper?

Actually if you read the description of the thanix cannon you'd see it was miniaturized variant of sovereigns main gun. not necessarily as powerful but it downed a ship much larger than the SR2 in 2 shots. The player can turn over the collector base to cerberus for study and an attempt to producer anti-reaper tech of the reaper tech there (not like we see a whole lot of chances to actually learn about reapers in the vulnerabilities in both.) 

The Thannix cannon was a step in the right direction, but It's not going to be enough, unless the Citadel Council  spent the last few years putting one or more on every single ship big enough to hold one.

I will grant that the base might hold someting for those that chose that ending.  Assuming those who study it don't end up indoctrinated, or TIM end up making his own Cerbereapers, it could be useful.  Pity there's no paragon counterpart.

and we do learn abit about indocrtination primarily that they do not neceassarily stop at just husks. the Protheans were indoctrinated and re-engineered to fit the reapers purposes making them just as useful as before. we also learned that indoctrination still occurs even if the reaper is inactive. i can't say dead cause i'm not sure the derlect reaper in Hawking eta was dead. but it still occurs while they're inactive so we did learn a little bit more about it. it also causes halucinations and shared memories. (watch all the crew records on the reaper) and that the indoctrinated come to believe the reaper a god, we did learn for sure that dragon spikes aid the process as mobile implantation devices.  as we  thought we knew from  number 1 indoctrination is caused a high pitched frequency being emitted from the reaper while we had glimpses of a more passive method with saren  we did see it could clearly cause the indoctrinated mass amounts of pain with benezia (and saren at end game)

By "indoctrination" I'm talking just about the mind-control abilities.  Husks I'm assuming are more akin to cybernetic or nanotech implants placed in dead or near-dead bodies to manipulate them and use to supplement numbers on the battlefield.  All we saw in the derelict Reaper was get "snapshots" of the indoctrination process. 

We still don't know what causes it, what it's long term affects are, or it's limits.  Is there any way to recover from it?  Shiala seemed to, but no one else did.  Is there any protecton from it?  Can the signal be blocked or countered?   How hard is it to detect?  Are any species resistant to it?  Or particularly susceptible? 

For all we know "heretic" geth could in fact be "indoctrinated" geth.

to argue that we know little of it is inacurate. we know enough we just don't know how the reapers cause it exactly 
because if i recall the derelect reaper was not emitting a strange signal. and considering it wasn't emitting the signal i'd find it a possibility that reapers have harvested thorian spores in the past  and mastered the technology cerberus was working on (thorian spore mind control we see this in one of the 3 cerberus labs in ME 1 as was exogeni) athey continue to let them live for mutual benefit being the sentient brain washing plants they are.  

 
Indocrination is one of the Reapers' more insidious weapons.  It's going to have to be identified and dealt with if the Reapers are going to be fought with any degree of effectiveness.  Leaving us with more questions about how it works is going to make ME 3 that much harder to make coherent.

and lets not forget that we learn a lot of useful political information in ME 2 that could aid us in ME 3. can't fight a galactic threat un-unified. Starters the true geth (legions geth) could form an alliance with quarians as it is shown they are peaceful in comparison to the heretics. lets not forget tuchanka (not sure how it goes with wrex's brother) but we do see they'd be willing to pull an assist under wrex (if i remember correctly). if you saved the Rachni Queen she pledges her race to your cause. alliances tend to be good with this sort of problem.

The Quarian, geth, and krogan stories are probably the best we get out of ME 2.  And I seem to be one of the few to find the rachni message a nice touch.  What's done with the Council, however, is a travesty.  But all this sows is groundwork being (potentially) laid for "Fight the enemy" in ME 3

[squee913]

smudboy wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...

smudboy wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...
Someone who gets it.

@smud why do you not comprehend the english that i am speaking? it is not unintelligible. and i said nearly the same thing as this guy.  you do seriously need your head checked if you are willing to argue this long over something that has been proven. ME 2 is a Sequel to ME 1 the story does continue to develop from the first even if it was pulled off poorly (except i thought it was a good sequel to each his own). So how can you seriously sit there trying to say it isn't a sequel?

I do not comprehend the English you are intending to speak, nor write.  I am not only stupid, but ignorant to the ways of your mind.

I have had my head examinted several times.  I am still lost.  This is probably because I am self-examining.

Please show the connection in simple, non-paragraph/non-rambling answers.  Point form would work.  Thank you kindly.

you know what i'm tired of dealing with you. you sir are pathetic you are completely wrong in regards to ME2 not being a sequel to ME 1 and it has been shown by multiple people. if you had any form of common sense you'd have seen it by now. You sir are more than just ignorant to the simple ways of my mind. The one real problem with smart people is that most of those who are can not simply get over themselves enough to admit they're wrong. at least intelligent folk can. Good Day i'm Tired of mud slinging due to the fact that i am tired of re-iterating my point. Which has been backed by 2 other forum users.

you are by far the biggest fool i have meet in my 2 years of being on the BW forums and i thought Ausieru was bad. my god. how wrong i was.

Dear Mr. darth_lopez
I cannot be "more" ignorant to the mysterious of your mind.  I simply don't know what you're talking about.

Let me try this again: how is ME2 a sequel to ME1?

I admit.  I am wrong.  I am stupid.  I am ignorant.  I do not understand.  I am worthless.  Please answer the question.  Please, help me.

Thanks.

Your resident BW guy,
smudboy

It is a sequel because it continues the story of commander Shepard. Period. Just because you may not like the story or that it did not cover material you wanted it to cover does not mean it is not a sequel. Hell, if it was a forty hour game about Shepard going to the beach after ME1 it would STILL be a sequel! Yeesh! And for everyone that thinks it is stupid that you can only destroy the base or give it to tim, give me another option. Tim and the Normandy are the only ones who know about it. Shep could not keep it for himself. He would have had to fight off Cerberus.  Shepard cannot hold off Cerberus and prepare for the reapers. He could fly off to tell the alliance, but before the alliance could do anything, TIM would have already claimed the base and probably found some way to keep the alliance from it. TIM would have moved faster than anything Shep could have done to stop him. IF he did not destroy it, TIM would have gotten it. I do not see any other outcomes.

[Christmas Ape]

Personally, I prefer learning that the Reapers are alien to our way of thinking and have motives not clearly expressed than my aforementioned Encyclopedia Reaper on a coffee table in the base that gives you the Reaper story from "Where They Come From" to "Why They Want To Mulch Organics" in easily digested Codex entries.



I learned organics are taken apart via nanotechnology and processed into Reaper material. I learned this isn't an indiscriminate process, and that the Reapers themselves consider it a benefit to the species in question and refer to it in a semi-mystical tone. I learned failures are repurposed to better refine the organic-killing engine the Reapers are trying to turn the Milky Way into. I learned they definitely know who Shepard is. Evidence was provided that Indoctrination is at least partially mass effect field based, and certain variations of natural asari biotic tendencies can mimic this effect to a degree.



The universe has big reveals still waiting to be made so ME3 doesn't have to rely on an army of primitive teddy bears to help us defeat the Reapers.



The ancient genocidal machine gods should not be subjects for the Exposition Fairy. Full stop. They remain a force, rather than an adversary. You 'fight' the Reapers the way you fight an avalanche or a supernova, not the way you fight a fleet. Preparation, planning, and a whole lot of hope.

[smudboy]

squee913 wrote...
It is a sequel because it continues the story of commander Shepard. Period. Just because you may not like the story or that it did not cover material you wanted it to cover does not mean it is not a sequel. Hell, if it was a forty hour game about Shepard going to the beach after ME1 it would STILL be a sequel! Yeesh! And for everyone that thinks it is stupid that you can only destroy the base or give it to tim, give me another option. Tim and the Normandy are the only ones who know about it. Shep could not keep it for himself. He would have had to fight off Cerberus.  Shepard cannot hold off Cerberus and prepare for the reapers. He could fly off to tell the alliance, but before the alliance could do anything, TIM would have already claimed the base and probably found some way to keep the alliance from it. TIM would have moved faster than anything Shep could have done to stop him. IF he did not destroy it, TIM would have gotten it. I do not see any other outcomes.

I am not arguing there is a "2" in the title.  I am arguing that it is not a proper sequel.  If you're just going to have a sequel about a character, that character must change, develop, grow.  Shepard does neither.  In fact, we're not even sure it's the same guy after they kill him off.

Same with the plot.  If it's going to be a sequel, then make it a sequel that continues from the events of the previous plot line.  ME1 could've been about just about anything provided there's something called "Reapers", and Shepard goes off to fight some "Geth", and ME2 would've fit in just fine.  This is not called good writing.

ME2 is the equivalent of reading some fanfic made into a game, or some Elseworld's story, that has nothing to do with anything.  Shepard doesn't grow, the Reaper plot doesn't develop, nada. 

[Iakus]

[quote]Christmas Ape wrote...

Personally, I prefer learning that the Reapers are alien to our way of thinking and have motives not clearly expressed than my aforementioned Encyclopedia Reaper on a coffee table in the base that gives you the Reaper story from "Where They Come From" to "Why They Want To Mulch Organics" in easily digested Codex entries.[/quote]

Agreed. To some extent. An enemy who wants to kill you for really out there reasons can be as dull as ebnemies that want to kill you for really simplistic reasons. An enemy that wants to kill you for really complicated reasons, that take a while to unravel....

[quote]
I learned organics are taken apart via nanotechnology and processed into Reaper material. I learned this isn't an indiscriminate process, and that the Reapers themselves consider it a benefit to the species in question and refer to it in a semi-mystical tone. I learned failures are repurposed to better refine the organic-killing engine the Reapers are trying to turn the Milky Way into. I learned they definitely know who Shepard is. Evidence was provided that Indoctrination is at least partially mass effect field based, and certain variations of natural asari biotic tendencies can mimic this effect to a degree.
[/quote]

But we didn't learn why the smoothies are important, or if it has anything to do withthe numerous programs that seem to run in a single Reaper platform (I really can't see how).

Indoctrination is mass effect based? Where does it say that? Not that i'm doubting it, as everything seems to be mass effect based (thus the title of the series) And asari can mimic it?

[/quote]
The universe has big reveals still waiting to be made so ME3 doesn't have to rely on an army of primitive teddy bears to help us defeat the Reapers.
[/quote]

I dunno. A primitive species overloked by reapers. It's would be the perfect hold-out weapon...I kid! I kid!

[quote]
The ancient genocidal machine gods should not be subjects for the Exposition Fairy. Full stop. They remain a force, rather than an adversary. You 'fight' the Reapers the way you fight an avalanche or a supernova, not the way you fight a fleet. Preparation, planning, and a whole lot of hope.[/quote]

Agreed. This is what annoyed me about EDI. She was relegated to "Exposition Fairy" instead of being an interesting exploration into AIs in the Mass Effect universe. Really cheap.

And again, ME 2 should have been about "preperation, planning and a whole lot of hope" re: the Reaper invasion. Instead we get a really long side mission with the Collectors. Zero planning is done for the Reapers.

[Iakus]

smudboy wrote...

ME2 is the equivalent of reading some fanfic made into a game, or some Elseworld's story, that has nothing to do with anything.  Shepard doesn't grow, the Reaper plot doesn't develop, nada. 

You're gonna catch a lot of flak with that comparison, but it is uncomfortably accurate.

[darth_lopez]

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]darth_lopez wrote...

if you talk to legion you do find out due to geth interaction with the reapers they are filled with thousands of programs. otherwise i'd have kept thinking it was a single AI with a god complex.[/quote]

Hmm, you're right.  That's the problem with getting Legion so late in the game.  It's easy to miss conversation topics with him.  Still we do not know where all those programs come from.  What possible method could the organic smoothie use to create them?  It raises more questions than it answers
[/quote]

i too found it sad that we had to wait so long to get legion, though i was initially opposed to the idea of a geth team mate before release they pulled it off well.
[quote]
[quote]

Human neanderthals are outside the era of their last purge according to evelution. We do know they need Organic life for something aside gathering raw matierals betraying their species and expendable foto soldiers (which we find out from vigil) we can obviously see the Tubes of organic goo bieng pumped into a baby. What they need it for is unknow but we do know they need it for some aspect of their functionality.
[/quote]

Not just organic life, advanced organic life.  Neanderthals were just an example of a life form which, while intelligent, never achieved advanced technology.  But if a similar life from existed in the ME world, could the Reapers use them?  If humans never discovered the relay network and were still stuck in the solar system, would the Reapers have come after them?  Presumably, they'd leave varren alone.  Why?  Why not a varren Reaper?
[/quote]

that is a good question i would assume their selective a better question would be why not the thorian? it was a sentient plant that could control minds. I would think a thorians genetic material would be valuable. but maybe the race must be capable of space travel in which case this could lend credibility to the they are killing organics to prevent devestation on an interplanetary scale theory.
[quote]
[quote]

Actually if you read the description of the thanix cannon you'd see it was miniaturized variant of sovereigns main gun. not necessarily as powerful but it downed a ship much larger than the SR2 in 2 shots. The player can turn over the collector base to cerberus for study and an attempt to producer anti-reaper tech of the reaper tech there (not like we see a whole lot of chances to actually learn about reapers in the vulnerabilities in both.) 
[/quote]

The Thannix cannon was a step in the right direction, but It's not going to be enough, unless the Citadel Council  spent the last few years putting one or more on every single ship big enough to hold one.

I will grant that the base might hold someting for those that chose that ending.  Assuming those who study it don't end up indoctrinated, or TIM end up making his own Cerbereapers, it could be useful.  Pity there's no paragon counterpart.
[/quote]

theres no paragon choice for that? i usually hand it over for research but yes the cerbereapers are a great concern of mine :/ just goes to show you how fast the ME universe is decending into chaos with out anyone realizing. makes you wonder if the reapers do actually impose order or if they simply incite the chaos? i spose that's a POV question though.
[quote]
[quote]
and we do learn abit about indocrtination primarily that they do not neceassarily stop at just husks. the Protheans were indoctrinated and re-engineered to fit the reapers purposes making them just as useful as before. we also learned that indoctrination still occurs even if the reaper is inactive. i can't say dead cause i'm not sure the derlect reaper in Hawking eta was dead. but it still occurs while they're inactive so we did learn a little bit more about it. it also causes halucinations and shared memories. (watch all the crew records on the reaper) and that the indoctrinated come to believe the reaper a god, we did learn for sure that dragon spikes aid the process as mobile implantation devices.  as we  thought we knew from  number 1 indoctrination is caused a high pitched frequency being emitted from the reaper while we had glimpses of a more passive method with saren  we did see it could clearly cause the indoctrinated mass amounts of pain with benezia (and saren at end game)
[/quote]

By "indoctrination" I'm talking just about the mind-control abilities.  Husks I'm assuming are more akin to cybernetic or nanotech implants placed in dead or near-dead bodies to manipulate them and use to supplement numbers on the battlefield.  All we saw in the derelict Reaper was get "snapshots" of the indoctrination process. 

We still don't know what causes it, what it's long term affects are, or it's limits.  Is there any way to recover from it?  Shiala seemed to, but no one else did.  Is there any protecton from it?  Can the signal be blocked or countered?   How hard is it to detect?  Are any species resistant to it?  Or particularly susceptible? 

For all we know "heretic" geth could in fact be "indoctrinated" geth.



[quote]
to argue that we know little of it is inacurate. we know enough we just don't know how the reapers cause it exactly 
because if i recall the derelect reaper was not emitting a strange signal. and considering it wasn't emitting the signal i'd find it a possibility that reapers have harvested thorian spores in the past  and mastered the technology cerberus was working on (thorian spore mind control we see this in one of the 3 cerberus labs in ME 1 as was exogeni) athey continue to let them live for mutual benefit being the sentient brain washing plants they are.  
[/quote] 
Indocrination is one of the Reapers' more insidious weapons.  It's going to have to be identified and dealt with if the Reapers are going to be fought with any degree of effectiveness.  Leaving us with more questions about how it works is going to make ME 3 that much harder to make coherent.
[/quote]

you make a very valid point i feel silly that i overlooked that fact XD now i see what you were saying.

[quote]
[quote]
and lets not forget that we learn a lot of useful political information in ME 2 that could aid us in ME 3. can't fight a galactic threat un-unified. Starters the true geth (legions geth) could form an alliance with quarians as it is shown they are peaceful in comparison to the heretics. lets not forget tuchanka (not sure how it goes with wrex's brother) but we do see they'd be willing to pull an assist under wrex (if i remember correctly). if you saved the Rachni Queen she pledges her race to your cause. alliances tend to be good with this sort of problem.
[/quote]

The Quarian, geth, and krogan stories are probably the best we get out of ME 2.  And I seem to be one of the few to find the rachni message a nice touch.  What's done with the Council, however, is a travesty.  But all this sows is groundwork being (potentially) laid for "Fight the enemy" in ME 3[/quote]

agreed completely with the final point. 

[ObserverStatus]

If you really wannna hate...

[darth_lopez]

smudboy wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...

smudboy wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...
Someone who gets it.

@smud why do you not comprehend the english that i am speaking? it is not unintelligible. and i said nearly the same thing as this guy.  you do seriously need your head checked if you are willing to argue this long over something that has been proven. ME 2 is a Sequel to ME 1 the story does continue to develop from the first even if it was pulled off poorly (except i thought it was a good sequel to each his own). So how can you seriously sit there trying to say it isn't a sequel?

I do not comprehend the English you are intending to speak, nor write.  I am not only stupid, but ignorant to the ways of your mind.

I have had my head examinted several times.  I am still lost.  This is probably because I am self-examining.

Please show the connection in simple, non-paragraph/non-rambling answers.  Point form would work.  Thank you kindly.

you know what i'm tired of dealing with you. you sir are pathetic you are completely wrong in regards to ME2 not being a sequel to ME 1 and it has been shown by multiple people. if you had any form of common sense you'd have seen it by now. You sir are more than just ignorant to the simple ways of my mind. The one real problem with smart people is that most of those who are can not simply get over themselves enough to admit they're wrong. at least intelligent folk can. Good Day i'm Tired of mud slinging due to the fact that i am tired of re-iterating my point. Which has been backed by 2 other forum users.

you are by far the biggest fool i have meet in my 2 years of being on the BW forums and i thought Ausieru was bad. my god. how wrong i was.

Dear (Lopez Edit: proper title for just you) Darth_Lopez
I cannot be "more" ignorant to the mysterious of your mind.  I simply don't know what you're talking about.

Let me try this again: how is ME2 a sequel to ME1?

I admit.  I am wrong.  I am stupid.  I am ignorant.  I do not understand.  I am worthless.  Please answer the question.  Please, help me.

Thanks.

Your resident (lopez edit: what he means here is Forum Troll),
smudboy

you should really work on your reading skills as well. and i've clearly explained several times what i meant deal.  if you can't read you can't know. last reply to you good day sir.

[darth_lopez]

[quote]squee913 wrote...

[quote]smudboy wrote...

[quote]darth_lopez wrote...

[quote]smudboy wrote...

[quote]darth_lopez wrote...
Someone who gets it.

@smud why do you not comprehend the english that i am speaking? it is not unintelligible. and i said nearly the same thing as this guy.  you do seriously need your head checked if you are willing to argue this long over something that has been proven. ME 2 is a Sequel to ME 1 the story does continue to develop from the first even if it was pulled off poorly (except i thought it was a good sequel to each his own). So how can you seriously sit there trying to say it isn't a sequel?
[/quote]
I do not comprehend the English you are intending to speak, nor write.  I am not only stupid, but ignorant to the ways of your mind.

I have had my head examinted several times.  I am still lost.  This is probably because I am self-examining.

Please show the connection in simple, non-paragraph/non-rambling answers.  Point form would work.  Thank you kindly.
[/quote]


you know what i'm tired of dealing with you. you sir are pathetic you are completely wrong in regards to ME2 not being a sequel to ME 1 and it has been shown by multiple people. if you had any form of common sense you'd have seen it by now. You sir are more than just ignorant to the simple ways of my mind. The one real problem with smart people is that most of those who are can not simply get over themselves enough to admit they're wrong. at least intelligent folk can. Good Day i'm Tired of mud slinging due to the fact that i am tired of re-iterating my point. Which has been backed by 2 other forum users.

you are by far the biggest fool i have meet in my 2 years of being on the BW forums and i thought Ausieru was bad. my god. how wrong i was.



[/quote]
Dear Mr. darth_lopez
I cannot be "more" ignorant to the mysterious of your mind.  I simply don't know what you're talking about.

Let me try this again: how is ME2 a sequel to ME1?

I admit.  I am wrong.  I am stupid.  I am ignorant.  I do not understand.  I am worthless.  Please answer the question.  Please, help me.

Thanks.

Your resident BW guy,
smudboy

[/quote]


It is a sequel because it continues the story of commander Shepard. Period. Just because you may not like the story or that it did not cover material you wanted it to cover does not mean it is not a sequel. Hell, if it was a forty hour game about Shepard going to the beach after ME1 it would STILL be a sequel! Yeesh![/quote]

thank you no one said you have to like the way they did it but it is a sequel and not just because of a 2. 

[/quote]
[quote]
And for everyone that thinks it is stupid that you can only destroy the base or give it to tim, give me another option. Tim and the Normandy are the only ones who know about it. Shep could not keep it for himself. He would have had to fight off Cerberus.  Shepard cannot hold off Cerberus and prepare for the reapers. He could fly off to tell the alliance, but before the alliance could do anything, TIM would have already claimed the base and probably found some way to keep the alliance from it. TIM would have moved faster than anything Shep could have done to stop him. IF he did not destroy it, TIM would have gotten it. I do not see any other outcomes.
[/quote]

they had the Reaper IFF installed on the Normandy TIM doesn't have it.  for some reason TIM seems to overlook he needs Reaper IFFs for entry. and that the normandy is the only ship with an integrated one. Shep could go freely between collector base and Omega and the rest of the galaxy. unless it had a fail safe that shut down the Relay (in which case why did ship even get out of the relay?)  upon destruction of the facility. he could have contacted the alliance if they included the option.cerberus can try as they like to get by with out the Reaper IFF they'll end up  missing like everyone else. 

though a possible reason why he  didn't do that is because it would be very dangerous to send other ships thorugh the relay due to the sheer amount of debris we see and other various 'threats' that could be present inside the debris field.

Modifié par darth_lopez, 21 juillet 2010 - 12:27 .

[darth_lopez]

iakus wrote...

smudboy wrote...

ME2 is the equivalent of reading some fanfic made into a game, or some Elseworld's story, that has nothing to do with anything.  Shepard doesn't grow, the Reaper plot doesn't develop, nada. 

You're gonna catch a lot of flak with that comparison, but it is uncomfortably accurate.

accurate or not still a sequel my friend. but i'm pretty sure you also realize it is a sequel.

[Nightwriter]

I miss all the good arguments.

So is it possible to disagree with the direction they took ME2 and still not be a "hater"?

[smudboy]

darth_lopez wrote...
you should really work on your reading skills as well. and i've clearly explained several times what i meant deal.  if you can't read you can't know. last reply to you good day sir.

Sorry, where is the answer?

I'd anxiously awaiting to read your simple, concise, and easy to read answer.  Where is it?

[wulf3n]

Nightwriter wrote...
So is it possible to disagree with the direction they took ME2 and still not be a "hater"?

Nope, sorry  even a single minor criticism is considered blasphemy, and the offender must be "cleansed" 

[smudboy]

darth_lopez wrote...
they had the Reaper IFF installed on the Normandy TIM doesn't have it.  for some reason TIM seems to overlook he needs Reaper IFFs for entry. and that the normandy is the only ship with an integrated one. Shep could go freely between collector base and Omega and the rest of the galaxy. unless it had a fail safe that shut down the Relay (in which case why did ship even get out of the relay?)  upon destruction of the facility. he could have contacted the alliance if they included the option.cerberus can try as they like to get by with out the Reaper IFF they'll end up  missing like everyone else. 

though a possible reason why he  didn't do that is because it would be very dangerous to send other ships thorugh the relay due to the sheer amount of debris we see and other various 'threats' that could be present inside the debris field.

If you get everyone killed and save the base, TIM has no problems sending multiple Cerberus vessels through the Omega-4 relay.

[darth_lopez]

Nightwriter wrote...

I miss all the good arguments.

So is it possible to disagree with the direction they took ME2 and still not be a "hater"?

oh yes just so long as it's established it is in fact a sequel

[smudboy]

darth_lopez wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I miss all the good arguments.

So is it possible to disagree with the direction they took ME2 and still not be a "hater"?

oh yes just so long as it's established it is in fact a sequel

How?

[darth_lopez]

smudboy wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...
they had the Reaper IFF installed on the Normandy TIM doesn't have it.  for some reason TIM seems to overlook he needs Reaper IFFs for entry. and that the normandy is the only ship with an integrated one. Shep could go freely between collector base and Omega and the rest of the galaxy. unless it had a fail safe that shut down the Relay (in which case why did ship even get out of the relay?)  upon destruction of the facility. he could have contacted the alliance if they included the option.cerberus can try as they like to get by with out the Reaper IFF they'll end up  missing like everyone else. 

though a possible reason why he  didn't do that is because it would be very dangerous to send other ships thorugh the relay due to the sheer amount of debris we see and other various 'threats' that could be present inside the debris field.

If you get everyone killed and save the base, TIM has no problems sending multiple Cerberus vessels through the Omega-4 relay.

never lost more than 2 crew members never lost joker never lost the normandy compeltely plus it's possible that shep hands the IFF off for duplication if the base is saved.

[Sparda Stonerule]

Nightwriter wrote...

I miss all the good arguments.

So is it possible to disagree with the direction they took ME2 and still not be a "hater"?

Yes it is. Unfortunately most people in this thread are extremists on both sides. Not to mention that most of them are quote miners. I happen to enjoy what happened with the story, but I can understand why some people wouldn't. I'm only going to be upset with the story if in number 3 either 1 or 2 don't make sense. I'm glad there are at least a few people being rational about the whole thing instead of endlessly squabbling over something they will never agree about.

[smudboy]

darth_lopez wrote...

never lost more than 2 crew members never lost joker never lost the normandy compeltely plus it's possible that shep hands the IFF off for duplication if the base is saved.

No, it's ltierally Joker going into the comm room and talking to TIM in place of Shepard.  There's no physical "handing off" of hardware.  We can only surmize TIM's R&D is ridiculously fast post-IFF installation.

[darth_lopez]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I miss all the good arguments.

So is it possible to disagree with the direction they took ME2 and still not be a "hater"?

Yes it is. Unfortunately most people in this thread are extremists on both sides. Not to mention that most of them are quote miners. I happen to enjoy what happened with the story, but I can understand why some people wouldn't. I'm only going to be upset with the story if in number 3 either 1 or 2 don't make sense. I'm glad there are at least a few people being rational about the whole thing instead of endlessly squabbling over something they will never agree about.

well are you saying that ME 2 isn't a sequel? no there is a difference to disliking the plot and claiming that the story doesn't continue at all when it clearly does poorly executed or not. but it would suck if the previous installments didn't make sense with the 3rd :/  any who time to put the thread back on topic


why did you like about number 2 or number 1s story? and what set them apart? what did you dislike in 2  incomparrison to 1 and the other things the OP said?

Modifié par darth_lopez, 21 juillet 2010 - 12:45 .