555 réponses à ce sujet

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

We can accept something because of proper exposition, and it seems to be the norm.  People riding around in flying cars isn't explained, but we can deduce they use some kind of mass effect fields since they increase/decrease mass, ergo, flying cars.  We cannot even begin to deduce how Shepard was resurrected.  Things like if Wilson ended up being a mad genius scientist who's on the verge of losing it, a whole battery of audio logs, clarity over what exactly happened to Shepard (like if we saw his body hit the surface of the planet intact, even if we know that's impossible) or even the mention of ME fields/Eezo...that would go a long, long way in helping the case.

Here's where I have to disagree with you. While I agree that a proper story would normally explain the perceivedly impossible, in some cases with Sci-Fi, exposition isn't necessary.

In the Star Wars series, the Force was an unexplained phenomenon, something that mystified the audiences and truly captivated them in this new world. It was something that was always there, something that was always a major plot point, and something that no one could explain for the life of them......

...Until Star Wars episode 1, where the mystery and intrigue was ended when Qui-Gon brings up "Midi-Chlorians". The Midi-Chlorians suddenly gave the force a finite explanation, and destroyed the mystifying quality that the force once had. You wouldn't dare say that Star Wars: Episode 1 was right to explain how the force worked, would you?

I believe that the two bigger problems with Shepard's ressurection (one you point out) is the seeming dismissal of Shepard's resurrection amongst everyone, and the implementation of Shepard's death to further the plot. While people state, "Oh man! I thought you were dead!", no one seems genuinely shocked or in denial that he came back to life. It's not even really mentioned by those people as an incredible feat, despite it never happening before in the galaxy. As you state, what is even the point of having him die and come back if no one acknowledges the miracle?

Now to its implementation. I can understand Bioware choosing this route as a means to get Shepard to work for "the badguy" of ME1, but they really could have chosen so many other options instead of death to get him there (how about, CLOSE to death, and Cerberus saved his body before it entered the atmosphere?). It would have saved them the hassle of every fan questioning how resurrection is possible.

I think the difrence between Shepard's resurection and the force, is that the force is a supernatrual force unlike the Lazarus project. It didn't/doesn't need the same sort of explaination that the Lazarus project.

[Il Divo]

smudboy wrote...
There's quite a lot of exposition on Biotics and Element Zero.  There's barely any for Mr. Bombastic Resurrection and the Space Building of Fly Girls.

Let's see, biotics:
1. Has Unobtainium (Element Zero.)
2. Asari have natural biotic talent, and all species seem to possess its ability.
3. A character who explains the first ever human-turian school designed to train human biotics.
4. Various mercenaries and soldiers throughout the galaxy are biotics.
5. Mass effect fields and their attribute to FTL and drive core technology.
6. The game is called Mass Effect.
7. Biotics, Element Zero, Drive Cores, the Mass Relays: these things are explained and common.

1. Which tells me nothing. What is element zero? What does it do? In-game reference?

2. So It is common.  

3. Which certainly gives us background on biotic culture, but I don't recall Kaidan explaining that biotics raise/lower the mass in objects, only that implants have different levels.

4. It is common, although I would say all gameplay evidence is not evidence at all.

5. In-game reference which connects biotics to mass effect? Closest thing we get on driver core technology is from Engineer Adams and that's about the Normandy's stealth systems. 

6. So, I can't use my in-game codex as evidence, but you're going to reference the title screen.

7. It sounds more like you're blending the codex and narrative without realizing it. Tell me which npcs explain how biotics, mass relays, drive cores, and element zero works. No one tells you that 'mass effect' can raise or lower the mass in objects.

So of your points, #1 tells us nothing about what element zero is. #2 and #4 tell us "it is common" which is analogous to resurrection being "uncommon". #5 and #7 require in-game verification from a character and #6 is invalid.

Modifié par Il Divo, 23 juillet 2010 - 03:06 .

[alienatedflea]

Shandepared wrote...

I don't like the story because it does not expand upon what was set up in the first game. It doesn't do anything to change the nature of the problem faced by the protagonists. It lacks a good villain and the two twists that are used are both meaningless at best and just dumb at worst.

Knowing that the Collectors are Protheans changes nothing... beyond that though it seems like a totally unnecessary addition to the Prothean mythos.

The revelation that Reapers harvest organics to produce more Reapers again changes nothing; we still have to stop them from wiping us out.

What would have been a nice twist is learning where the Reapers came from, how many there are, and how much time we have left until they get here.

There Collectors are a nice concept, but the problem with them is a lack of foreshadowing. If they had been set-up in the first game they'd work much better as antagonists. Another problem that I already pointed out is their connection to the Protheans. It just doesn't gel very well with the Reaper plot. It would have made more sense if the Collectors were related to the Keepers, perhaps indicating that they were engineered from the same species. That would set-up a nice revelation further along where we learn who created the Reapers, when, and why. Perhaps in the process pointing out a weakness or some sort of formidable obstacle that Shepard will have to overcome in the future to end the threat.

Now stop me if im wrong...but i could swear that Virgil on Illos said that the protheans were near the discovery of building mass relays...so the Omega 4 relay could be the only mass relay they could build before the reapers could wipe out all of the protheans? so idk i thought i would throw that out there

[smudboy]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

We can accept something because of proper exposition, and it seems to be the norm.  People riding around in flying cars isn't explained, but we can deduce they use some kind of mass effect fields since they increase/decrease mass, ergo, flying cars.  We cannot even begin to deduce how Shepard was resurrected.  Things like if Wilson ended up being a mad genius scientist who's on the verge of losing it, a whole battery of audio logs, clarity over what exactly happened to Shepard (like if we saw his body hit the surface of the planet intact, even if we know that's impossible) or even the mention of ME fields/Eezo...that would go a long, long way in helping the case.

Here's where I have to disagree with you. While I agree that a proper story would normally explain the perceivedly impossible, in some cases with Sci-Fi, exposition isn't necessary.

In the Star Wars series, the Force was an unexplained phenomenon, something that mystified the audiences and truly captivated them in this new world. It was something that was always there, something that was always a major plot point, and something that no one could explain for the life of them......

...Until Star Wars episode 1, where the mystery and intrigue was ended when Qui-Gon brings up "Midi-Chlorians". The Midi-Chlorians suddenly gave the force a finite explanation, and destroyed the mystifying quality that the force once had. You wouldn't dare say that Star Wars: Episode 1 was right to explain how the force worked, would you?

I believe that the two bigger problems with Shepard's ressurection (one you point out) is the seeming dismissal of Shepard's resurrection amongst everyone, and the implementation of Shepard's death to further the plot. While people state, "Oh man! I thought you were dead!", no one seems genuinely shocked or in denial that he came back to life. It's not even really mentioned by those people as an incredible feat, despite it never happening before in the galaxy. As you state, what is even the point of having him die and come back if no one acknowledges the miracle?

Now to its implementation. I can understand Bioware choosing this route as a means to get Shepard to work for "the badguy" of ME1, but they really could have chosen so many other options instead of death to get him there (how about, CLOSE to death, and Cerberus saved his body before it entered the atmosphere?). It would have saved them the hassle of every fan questioning how resurrection is possible.

The Force was essentially magic, playing on the parapsychology of the 70s, parlor tricks, slight of hand, etc.  It was more than just telekinesis: it played with a religious mysticism about life, about the universe, and the sort.  Yoda was there to teach us about the magic the universe played, to appreciate the oneness of life, in spirtual terms, which was a great contrast to the space opera setting.  It was philosophical.

Shepard had 0 spirituality, relevation or existential moments (which usually happens in Sci-Fi.)  Resurrect a brick, you get a brick.  ME's great mystery is the Reapers, and this is why being Chosen by the plot in ME1 (Alliance, Council, Shiala, Vigil) meant something.  Only Shepard could do it.

Anyone could've done what Sheaprd did in ME2.  You can't have the impacts of something as biblical as resurrection, let alone resurrection to a public hero figure, go unnoticed, whose only application seems to be getting discounts on junk, but that's after all the fact of the rubbish of a device.  Yet news reports won't shut up about Shepard.  Yet the key people who really should care, don't.

[smudboy]

Il Divo wrote...
1. Which tells me nothing. What is element zero? What does it do? In-game reference?

If you don't know what Unobtainium is, then I can't help you.

2. So It is common.  

Like how guns, and flying cars, and spaceships are common.  It's part of the mythos of the universe.  The fact that people aren't going "OMFG flying CARS!" all over the place gives it a quality, of acceptance, of "this is the state of technology."  As in, it's no big deal.

3. Which certainly gives us background on biotic culture, but I don't recall Kaidan explaining that biotics raise/lower the mass in objects, only that implants have different levels.

Different levels of what?  Power to...do telekinetic feats?  So that would imply someone having more power, control, to make things move faster, than someone of lesser power.  Kaidan having a backstory on Biotics, compared to no one having a backstory on resurrection.  Hmm?

4. It is common, although I would say all gameplay evidence is not evidence at all.

Narrative is everything you experience.

5. In-game reference which connects biotics to mass effect? Closest thing we get on driver core technology is from Engineer Adams and that's about the Normandy's stealth systems. 

The point is it's there.

6. So, I can't use my in-game codex as evidence, but you're going to reference the title screen.

Or the box art.  Or the blue glowy effect people have when they use biotics.  Or the dozen of other pieces of evidence we're shown to be told that biotics are common, that eezo is Unobtainium (magic).

So of your points, #1 tells us nothing about what element zero is. #2 and #4 tell us "it is common" which is analogous to resurrection being "uncommon". #5 and #7 require in-game verification from a character and #6 is invalid.

Sure.

[FlyinElk212]

smudboy wrote...

The Force was essentially magic, playing on the parapsychology of the 70s, parlor tricks, slight of hand, etc.  It was more than just telekinesis: it played with a religious mysticism about life, about the universe, and the sort.  Yoda was there to teach us about the magic the universe played, to appreciate the oneness of life, in spirtual terms, which was a great contrast to the space opera setting.  It was philosophical.

Shepard had 0 spirituality, relevation or existential moments (which usually happens in Sci-Fi.)  Resurrect a brick, you get a brick.  ME's great mystery is the Reapers, and this is why being Chosen by the plot in ME1 (Alliance, Council, Shiala, Vigil) meant something.  Only Shepard could do it.

Anyone could've done what Sheaprd did in ME2.  You can't have the impacts of something as biblical as resurrection, let alone resurrection to a public hero figure, go unnoticed, whose only application seems to be getting discounts on junk, but that's after all the fact of the rubbish of a device.  Yet news reports won't shut up about Shepard.  Yet the key people who really should care, don't.

OK, good point. My midi-chlorian analogy is a little flawed, like you and Lizardviking pointed out. While the force is in no way equivalent to Shepard's resurrection, the basic premise is still there: I believe that, with proper story building,  things LIKE the force, or LIKE Shepard's resurrection doesn't need to be explained.

And this lack of explanation can be excused if, like you suggested, the reaction of the characters that matter to the story treat the situation as such: an incredible phenomenon that no one can initially believe. Such a major event, like the death and rebirth of Shepard, needs to be implanted into the story properly before it needs to be explained properly.

This event's problem is compounded by Shepard's lack of uniqueness. You stated it well: anyone could've done what Shepard did in ME2. Yes, Shepard is "a symbol, an icon to humanity", but...who cares? If they wanted to maintain the symbol, why not just create a replica of Shepard, who can't resist and fully endorses Cerberus? If they have the technology for bringing someone back to life, they can clearly pull something off like that. Their explanation for choosing to bringing back Shepard made little to no sense.

The story should've given Shepard an evident perk, a reason as to why he's the only one that can do something like this--why he's worth resurrecting. Something like, "Well, we found this piece of Reaper technology that we wanna implant in a human to see what it does, but everyone we implant it in dies. Maybe Shepard, someone who's touched the Cipher, can live through it." And he does, and the technology is crucial to finding out the weakness to the Reapers.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 23 juillet 2010 - 03:35 .

[Il Divo]

smudboy wrote...
If you don't know what Unobtainium is, then I can't help you.

Unobtanium is the equivalent of the "pull it out of your ass" excuse. I can use it to justify everything that happens in Mass Effect.

Like how guns, and flying cars, and spaceships are common.  It's part of the mythos of the universe.  The fact that people aren't going "OMFG flying CARS!" all over the place gives it a quality, of acceptance, of "this is the state of technology."  As in, it's no big deal.

And the fact that people express surprise and disbelief at the fact that Shepard coud be alive demonstrates that "This is a big deal". It is uncommon. Or is state of the art technology not clear enough for you?

Different levels of what?  Power to...do telekinetic feats?  So that would imply someone having more power, control, to make things move faster, than someone of lesser power.  Kaidan having a backstory on Biotics, compared to no one having a backstory on resurrection.  Hmm?
 

Point remains that Kaidan telling us what it's like training to be a biotic told us nothing about what biotics are. All I learned is that it has something to do with "element zero". I have no idea what element zero is from the narrative. Explain it to me.

Narrative is everything you experience.

Then I suppose you have never experienced the codex. You have my sympathy, but I can't help you.

The point is it's there.

No, it's obviously not there. Point to anywhere in-game that Shepard (or the player) learns how biotics, the relays, etc work. Saying it's common is no different to resurrection being uncommon.

Or the box art.  Or the blue glowy effect people have when they use biotics.  Or the dozen of other pieces of evidence we're shown to be told that biotics are common, that eezo is Unobtainium (magic).

Box art isn't in the narrative. Neither is the title screen. Stop lying to yourself.

Blue glowy hands make me believe its magic. If I buy magic with no scientific explanation, then I can buy resurrection. We're given dozen pieces of evidence to suggest resurrection has never been done before. "Uncommon".

Modifié par Il Divo, 23 juillet 2010 - 04:35 .

[Christmas Ape]

smudboy wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

6. So, I can't use my in-game codex as evidence, but you're going to reference the title screen.

Or the box art.

Why in the world would anyone continue to engage with this? This is, I suspect, posting for the sheer pleasure of being smug on the internet.



I don't think someone goes outside very often.

[smudboy]

[quote]Il Divo wrote...

[quote]smudboy wrote...
If you don't know what Unobtainium is, then I can't help you. [/quote]

Unobtanium is the equivalent of the "pull it out of your ass" excuse. I can use it to justify everything that happens in Mass Effect.
[/quote]
In engineering, fiction, or thought experiments, unobtainium (also spelled unobtanium) is any extremely rare, costly, or physically impossible material, or (less commonly) device needed to fulfill a given design for a given application.

Biotics has Eezo.  Resurrection does not.  Suck it.

[quote]
[quote]
Like how guns, and flying cars, and spaceships are common.  It's part of the mythos of the universe.  The fact that people aren't going "OMFG flying CARS!" all over the place gives it a quality, of acceptance, of "this is the state of technology."  As in, it's no big deal. [/quote]

And the fact that people express surprise and disbelief at the fact that Shepard coud be alive demonstrates that "This is a big deal". It is uncommon. Or is state of the art technology not clear enough for you?
[/quote]
Exactly my point.  Thank you for agreeing with me.

Additionally, only a few people do this, which makes the point of why even use resurrection in the first place.

[quote]
[quote]
Different levels of what?  Power to...do telekinetic feats?  So that would imply someone having more power, control, to make things move faster, than someone of lesser power.  Kaidan having a backstory on Biotics, compared to no one having a backstory on resurrection.  Hmm?
 [/quote]

Point remains that Kaidan telling us what it's like training to be a biotic told us nothing about what biotics are. All I learned is that it has something to do with "element zero". I have no idea what element zero is from the narrative. Explain it to me.
[/quote]
That's exactly all you needed to know.  Magical substance + implant = Biotic.  Go google unobtanium if you don't understand the plot device.

Incorrect Technobabbe + Unclear Cutscene = Shepard resurrection.

[quote]
[quote]
Narrative is everything you experience. [/quote]

Then I suppose you have never experienced the codex. You have my sympathy, but I can't help you.
[/quote]
I don't want your help.

[quote]
[quote]
The point is it's there. [/quote]

No, it's obviously not there. Point to anywhere in-game that Shepard (or the player) learns how biotics, the relays, etc work. Saying it's common is no different to resurrection being uncommon.
[/quote]
The presence of these things is common within the universe.  The understanding is not.  I'm not arguing the understanding.  My apologies if that's what you were thinking.

The fact that something is COMMON means people have accepted it as part of society, as in "it's common knowledge that there are biotics."  It is not common knowledge that people can be resurrected.  It's really quite simple.

[quote]
[quote]
Or the box art.  Or the blue glowy effect people have when they use biotics.  Or the dozen of other pieces of evidence we're shown to be told that biotics are common, that eezo is Unobtainium (magic). [/quote]

Box art isn't in the narrative. Neither is the title screen. Stop lying to yourself.
[/quote]
Stop making stupid points.

In a Spider Man comic, if we don't get to see Spider Man, things are going to be pretty flippin retarded, and one very angry audience.  The title is the window to the work.  It frames it.

The fact that we get Mass Effect having Mass Relays and Mass Effect fields, and that it interacts with humanoids in the production of Biotic Abilities?  See how that works?

If it was Mass Effect 2: Resurrection, then we better damn well get something to do with resurrection.  But we barely do.

[quote]
Blue glowy hands make me believe its magic. If I buy magic with no scientific explanation, then I can buy resurrection. We're given dozen pieces of evidence to suggest resurrection has never been done before. "Uncommon".
[/quote]
Except the blue glowy hands are involved with Unobtainium.  It is "sci-fi".  It makes the sci-fi stuff work.  Eezo is what almost every technology involved in the universe is based on.

Was Eezo used in Resurrection?  Nope.  We get some glowy clamp cutscene crap.  It would help, but wouldn't answer everything.  Because Eezo just makes things weigh less/more.  They need to do quite a bit of explanation on 1) Shepard's death, 2) Body Recovery before they even get to the resurrection.  This is stuff we need to know in order to buy what story they're selling.

Any other Unobtainium used in Resurrection?  Nope.
Any character to explain how it worked? Nope.
Any new science fiction technology, like a Resurrection Machine, technique, alien device?  Nope.
Any crisis, or scene, or series of events that have made this clear or explained how Shepard died, was preserved, and brought back?  Nope.

[Il Divo]

smudboy wrote...

>snip<

It's a shame. I had honestly expected something better than this based on your previous posts. Your point that box art can be accepted as narrative evidence while the codex cannot is absolutely dumb-founding and as such I see no reason to continue this discussion. I see nothing more to be gained from you. In short: you bore me.  

Modifié par Il Divo, 23 juillet 2010 - 06:17 .

[smudboy]

Il Divo wrote...

smudboy wrote...

>snip<

It's a shame. I had honestly expected something better than this based on your previous posts. Your point that box art can be accepted as narrative evidence while the codex cannot is absolutely dumb-founding and as such I see no reason to continue this discussion as I see nothing more to be gained from you. In short: you bore me.  

I don't recall saying the box art, which has the Title of the work, is considered part of the narrative.  I do recall saying it's a frame for the work. 

[Iakus]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

I would say that the death is less of a "cheap gimmick" and more of a "weak plot-tool". It works, but it's kind of a cop out, whereas instead of Shepard's character growing, Shepard is forced into a new situation due to his death.

Honestly, the only reason I can conjecture as to why Bioware chose the "death and rebirth" of Shepard is to continue the Shepard=Jesus Christ analogy. 12 followers, died and reborn again, "The Lord is my Shepard", etc.

"Cheap gimmick", "weak plot-tool", "cartoonishly over-the-top"  All pretty much the same to me.  In the end, it was very badly managed.  If they are trying to turn Shepard into a messianic figure, they're laying it on way too thick.

 Shepard better not be betrayed to the Reapers by one of is own squadmates in ME 3...

[Iakus]

Lucretion wrote...

Plausible reset button options, which would have made sense.

• Collectors attack the Normandy, Joker is able to get away, Shepard and many of the crew are severe injured. You must rebuild your abilities due to playing a weakened Shepard.
  
• He is found in Space almost immediately after the Normandy explodes and put into Stasis, thus not killed, more a near death experience.
  
  
• Collectors kidnap Shepard following the destruction of the Normandy and perform rigorous experimention on on him. Cerberus rescues him.

Or how about they do not press the reset button and merely claim new abilities or a higher degree of biotics and tech has been discovered, therefore Shepard must remaster some - not all - of his abilities. Frankly the reset button was woefully unecessary when you consider enemy's statistics increase based upon Shepard's level. There were numerous ways Bioware could have continued the story, they instead opted for the most cliche and unrealistic imaginable for drama. "OMG SHEPARD DIES!!!!: It is facepalm worthy, although I will not deny should I turn off logical rationale, it is pretty cool.

Any of those would have been a much better lead-in to ME 2.  I especially like the  one with Shepard being a Collector prisoner.  Anything that would give the Collectors more screen time, and us a chance to learn about them, would be a good thing.

[freestylez]

One thing I can't wrap my head around is WHY they are building a human-reaper.



Have the collectors abducted previous races in secret or is this a precedent set for humans?



Did the reapers not think humans would notice a billion of their kind being kidnapped?



Why did the Reapers think they could use a vehicle (the Collectors) to do their dirty work successfully when Shephard and the rest of the human and other races showed they can defeat a Reaper and a fleet of geth?



Even if they were to complete the reaper, what will it have done? Fly to the Citadel to attempt to open the Relay again?

[theelementslayer]

freestylez wrote...

One thing I can't wrap my head around is WHY they are building a human-reaper.

Have the collectors abducted previous races in secret or is this a precedent set for humans?

Did the reapers not think humans would notice a billion of their kind being kidnapped?

Why did the Reapers think they could use a vehicle (the Collectors) to do their dirty work successfully when Shephard and the rest of the human and other races showed they can defeat a Reaper and a fleet of geth?

Even if they were to complete the reaper, what will it have done? Fly to the Citadel to attempt to open the Relay again?

This is just a theory but I think it was a matter of speed and respect. THe reapers are in dark space so pretty far away. And the collector base is connected to the Omega 4 relay. Pretty close to the citidel.

As for it being human well I think shepard was the first to destory a reaper and its like eat the heart of your enemy to take his power. Who knows though?

[freestylez]

theelementslayer wrote...

freestylez wrote...

One thing I can't wrap my head around is WHY they are building a human-reaper.

Have the collectors abducted previous races in secret or is this a precedent set for humans?

Did the reapers not think humans would notice a billion of their kind being kidnapped?

Why did the Reapers think they could use a vehicle (the Collectors) to do their dirty work successfully when Shephard and the rest of the human and other races showed they can defeat a Reaper and a fleet of geth?

Even if they were to complete the reaper, what will it have done? Fly to the Citadel to attempt to open the Relay again?

This is just a theory but I think it was a matter of speed and respect. THe reapers are in dark space so pretty far away. And the collector base is connected to the Omega 4 relay. Pretty close to the citidel.

As for it being human well I think shepard was the first to destory a reaper and its like eat the heart of your enemy to take his power. Who knows though?

That's very possible buy it just seems like a plan destined for failure. I think EDI said in the game that it would take several billion humans to complete the reaper. I would assume the Collectors would know by that point they would have gained the attention of a lot of the galaxy and be facing resistance. So they have to successfully harvest humans, then prepare for an attack on the Citadel, again. And I doubt that Collectors fleet can match the Geth army in ME1.

[Whatever42]

freestylez wrote...

One thing I can't wrap my head around is WHY they are building a human-reaper.

Have the collectors abducted previous races in secret or is this a precedent set for humans?

Did the reapers not think humans would notice a billion of their kind being kidnapped?

Why did the Reapers think they could use a vehicle (the Collectors) to do their dirty work successfully when Shephard and the rest of the human and other races showed they can defeat a Reaper and a fleet of geth?

Even if they were to complete the reaper, what will it have done? Fly to the Citadel to attempt to open the Relay again?

Reapers procreate by harvesting races and absorbing their genetic material. I don't think the collectors creating a secret reaper would be part of their normal operations, except the Protheans sabotaged the citadel relay, preventing their return and then Shepard slammed the door in their face in ME1.

Perhaps they did intend the human reaper to make another attempt on the citadel or perhaps they've developed a back-up plan.

[InvaderErl]

The Prothean iteration of the Collectors as I saw it were the latest in a long line of slave races adapted for the role of actually doing the work of pouring the genetic material into the new Reaper structure once the invasion is actually under way. The Reapers are big on their conquered subjects doing the menial work.

After Sovereign's death, the Collectors were the Reaper's only agents in the Milky Way so they decided to start the collection process early in order to get a Reaper on the ground. As for how they were going to effect their return obviously that will be a huge part of what is going on in ME3 but if we were just to guess the Human Reaper can likely indoctrinate - that would be a serious advantage.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 23 juillet 2010 - 10:52 .

[Iakus]

freestylez wrote...

That's very possible buy it just seems like a plan destined for failure. I think EDI said in the game that it would take several billion humans to complete the reaper. I would assume the Collectors would know by that point they would have gained the attention of a lot of the galaxy and be facing resistance. So they have to successfully harvest humans, then prepare for an attack on the Citadel, again. And I doubt that Collectors fleet can match the Geth army in ME1.

The Collector "fleet" is one ship.  One lousy ship.  Sovereign had an armada of geth at his command.  Plus the number of humans it would take to complete a Reaper would likely empty the Terminus Systems of humans. The Allience was already starting to take notice (sending Ashely/Kaiden to help with the ground defenses on Horizon).  Building a new Reaper unless an invasion was already in progress just seemed doomed to failure from the start.  Even without the "Chosen one" leading a "Suicide Mision" against the Collectors.  

[Mecha Tengu]

plot for Me2:



get a crew

deal with the issues

GTFO to mass relay

[InvaderErl]

iakus wrote...

freestylez wrote...

That's very possible buy it just seems like a plan destined for failure. I think EDI said in the game that it would take several billion humans to complete the reaper. I would assume the Collectors would know by that point they would have gained the attention of a lot of the galaxy and be facing resistance. So they have to successfully harvest humans, then prepare for an attack on the Citadel, again. And I doubt that Collectors fleet can match the Geth army in ME1.

The Collector "fleet" is one ship.  One lousy ship.  Sovereign had an armada of geth at his command.  Plus the number of humans it would take to complete a Reaper would likely empty the Terminus Systems of humans. The Allience was already starting to take notice (sending Ashely/Kaiden to help with the ground defenses on Horizon).  Building a new Reaper unless an invasion was already in progress just seemed doomed to failure from the start.  Even without the "Chosen one" leading a "Suicide Mision" against the Collectors.  

You're assuming they were trying to complete it then and there. The thing was already partially functional, I always saw it as they were trying to get it working enough so that it could start on whatever Plan C was.  As for the Alliance, they sent ONE agent to go and take a look and even then the Collectors were being sufficiently stealthy that they still didn't know who was behind the attacks - even that investigation was precipitated because Cerberus leaked false info.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 23 juillet 2010 - 11:39 .

[Iakus]

InvaderErl wrote...

You're assuming they were trying to complete it then and there. The thing was already partially functional, I always saw it as they were trying to get it working enough so that it could start on whatever Plan C was.  As for the Alliance, they sent ONE agent to go and take a look and even then the Collectors were being sufficiently stealthy that they still didn't know who was behind the attacks - even that investigation was precipitated because Cerberus leaked false info.

Yeah, I am assuming that.  I can't for the life of me imagine what good a half finished Reaper would be.  

And while the Aliance was slow to respond, and needed nudging, the point is they have noticed.  Hand-wringing can only go on so long until enough colonies have disappeareed, and enough people have packed up and left the Terminus Systems that the Alliance will take an active interest in what's going on, if for no other reason than to make sure it doesn't start happening in Alliance space.  Terminus Systems out of humans +Alliance watching their borders closely for threats=???

So in the end, What did the Collectors hope to accomplish?  At least with Saren we knew what the goal was.

[InvaderErl]

iakus wrote...


Yeah, I am assuming that.  I can't for the life of me imagine what good a half finished Reaper would be.  

A Reaper can indoctrinate, a Reaper can get allies that they desperately need and that's even going off of the fact that the Reapers clearly had some kind of plan to get back into the Milky Way that we don't know about.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 24 juillet 2010 - 05:10 .