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DA:O vs DA:2 -- Let's examine the titles and the subtitles


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#1
WingsandRings

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I think people are forgetting what the name of the original game was:

Dragon Age: Origins. The TITLE is Dragon Age, the subtitle is Origins. That means the whole series is set in the dragon age universe, and the focus of this one part of the series is the origins. That indirectly implies that other Dragon Age games would not have the same set up. The name of it wasn't Origins: Dragon Age (which would mean that the Origins was the main thread running through the series of games, maybe with the Origins set up in several different universes or eras) but Dragon Age: Origins, meaning that the era called the Dragon Age is the running theme throughout the series of games.

It's like watching the BBC Series Six Wives of Henry VIII: Katherine of Aragon and then Watching Six Wives of Henry VIII: Anne Boleyn and complaining that the second one in the series didn't have Katherine of Aragon as the main focal point. Well duh, the series is about Six Wives of Henry VIII, and each episode is going to focus on a different wife.  It's right there in the title and subtitle, just like Dragon Age: Origins.

So honestly, it's not really that big a shock that the new one has a different approach to the story set in the Dragon Age universe than the previous one. It was right there in the original title -- the first game's focus is the Origins, and it is set in the Dragon Age. The next game will be Dragon Age: Something else (Champion of Kirkwall, for example) , and that Something Else will be
what drives the game.

Anywho, I'm excited.

Edited for formatting. What the eff?

Modifié par WingsandRings, 12 juillet 2010 - 12:55 .


#2
ITSSEXYTIME

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Uh what.



Regardless, no the Origin features were not a mandatory thing for the series, but it was something UNIQUE that the series did that no other game has really done before and to see them abandon it for the sequel is disappointing. It'd be like if Elder Scrolls V removed the Open World exploration so they could have a stronger narrative. (because they'd be able to control what the player does and when they do it, rather than having them wander around doing side quest when they're supposed to do some epic battle somewhere else)




#3
Gill Kaiser

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The devs pretty much told us on these forums that the franchise was about the world/age rather than individual stories. If you expected another game about darkspawn and Grey Wardens, you were always going to be dissappointed.

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 12 juillet 2010 - 12:55 .


#4
iLoveDragons

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I agree with the WingsandRings. This isn't Dragon Age; Origins 2. It is Dragon Age 2. Bioware chose to do something different, and that is cool.

#5
whinnie

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i think most people actually wanted and probably expected DA:O2 but bioware made a decision to make DA:2 which many fans took badly...i agree with you mostly, i look at this game and dont worry about the origins anymore, i just want to see what this new story its new game play mechanics.

#6
LPPrince

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People will fail to realize DAO2 doesn't exist, and its DA2.

#7
CakesOnAPlane

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Names aren't a big deal tbh and I doubt that it has anything to do with the changes. For example there is HL2 then HL2:EP1/2/3(in the year 2099 :P), yet it should be HL3:EP1/etc. So I don't pay that much attention to titles. They probably chose it because simply 'Dragon Age: Origins' sounds better than 'Dragon Age' imo.



Anyway yes I am also excited.

#8
WingsandRings

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I'm glad they're not just doing a rehash of DA:O. People always think they want the same thing they liked the first time around, and most companies (be it movie productions, authors, video games, whatever) play it safe and give the audience what they think they want. But often times these sequels crash and burn because really, nothing new has happened. I'm glad Bioware is taking a risk by going what seems to be a very different direction but set in the same world, so that the "Dragon Age" product doesn't just become a carbon copy of itself, sequel after sequel after sequel.

#9
Grandchamp1989

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Whinnie made an excellent point. I for one was making that same mistake when I first heard that the story was to be about some ''Hawke'' with a ME2 Engine going. Now I'm very much looking forward to the game.

#10
JohnF1986

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Quite right. Though I think we might get a new subtitle at some point, Dragon Age was just Dragon Age at the start, too. That might clear things up a little.

How about something cheesy? The Rise of the Hawk! Soaring Hawke! Hawke to the Rescue! Hawke the Slayer!... Wait.

#11
17thknight

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LPPrince wrote...

People will fail to realize DAO2 doesn't exist, and its DA2.


And they will be EXTREMELY disappointed by this. Most people who are not hardcore gamers, but enjoyed the first game, are utterly unaware of what is happening with Dragon Age 2. The removal of character customization and origin stories has been met with universal derision from the less-hardcore fans of the game that I have spoken with and seen online, so I cannot fathom how this would be met with anything other than confusion and utter disappointment by the fans as a whole.

The single most unique and interesting feature of DA:O is gone. If anything it was not implement well enough int he first game and should have been both expanded upon and improved with a sequel, not arbitrarily axed for the sake of a voice-over.

I would rather be able to actually customize my character than listen to a voice actor. And no, choosing male and female is NOT character customization. This wasn't even considered "customization" when the original Fallout came out, I can't fathom how the standard has fallen this low now.

Modifié par 17thknight, 12 juillet 2010 - 02:29 .


#12
LPPrince

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17thknight wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

People will fail to realize DAO2 doesn't exist, and its DA2.


And they will be EXTREMELY disappointed by this. Most people who are not hardcore gamers, but enjoyed the first game, are utterly unaware of what is happening with Dragon Age 2. The removal of character customization and origin stories has been met with universal derision from the less-hardcore fans of the game that I have spoken with and seen online, so I cannot fathom how this would be met with anything other than confusion and utter disappointment by the fans as a whole.

The single most unique and interesting feature of DA:O is gone. If anything it was not implement well enough int he first game and should have been both expanded upon and improved with a sequel, not arbitrarily axed for the sake of a voice-over.

I would rather be able to actually customize my character than listen to a voice actor. And no, choosing male and female is NOT character customization. This wasn't even considered "customization" when the original Fallout came out, I can't fathom how the standard has fallen this low now.


People can't tell the difference between a title and a subtitle then. I feel for them.

#13
WingsandRings

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17thknight wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

People will fail to realize DAO2 doesn't exist, and its DA2.


And they will be EXTREMELY disappointed by this. Most people who are not hardcore gamers, but enjoyed the first game, are utterly unaware of what is happening with Dragon Age 2. The removal of character customization and origin stories has been met with universal derision from the less-hardcore fans of the game that I have spoken with and seen online, so I cannot fathom how this would be met with anything other than confusion and utter disappointment by the fans as a whole.

The single most unique and interesting feature of DA:O is gone. If anything it was not implement well enough int he first game and should have been both expanded upon and improved with a sequel, not arbitrarily axed for the sake of a voice-over.

I would rather be able to actually customize my character than listen to a voice actor. And no, choosing male and female is NOT character customization. This wasn't even considered "customization" when the original Fallout came out, I can't fathom how the standard has fallen this low now.


And if they did go ahead and do a second DA:O, then guess what? Everyone would be disappointed and say it was just a "watered down copy" of the first one, and that there was nothing actually new or interesting in the second 2 that hadn't already been done in the first.

And this whole "we can't customize our characters" thing confuses me.  In my experience with RPGs, it's the choices you make IN the game, as opposed to what you do at the beginning (whether it's picking out a hairstyle or playing through a 40 minute origin story) that really customize your character and make him or her different from the other characters you've played.  So far with DA:O I've played 1 HNF and 2 Elves (1 city elf, one mage elf) and guess what? It's the dialogue and behavior choices I made that have made them different.  My HNF and city elf were both pretty do-gooders, but my mage is a bitter bitter lady.  That's what makes the game interesting.  Being giving those choices.  And I would THINK, if Bioware knows what they're doing, that with the limitation of 1 main character, the directions you're going to be allowed to take him or her, the amount of  character customization within the game itself, will be much much broader.

#14
joriandrake

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17thknight wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

People will fail to realize DAO2 doesn't exist, and its DA2.


And they will be EXTREMELY disappointed by this. Most people who are not hardcore gamers, but enjoyed the first game, are utterly unaware of what is happening with Dragon Age 2. The removal of character customization and origin stories has been met with universal derision from the less-hardcore fans of the game that I have spoken with and seen online, so I cannot fathom how this would be met with anything other than confusion and utter disappointment by the fans as a whole.

The single most unique and interesting feature of DA:O is gone. If anything it was not implement well enough int he first game and should have been both expanded upon and improved with a sequel, not arbitrarily axed for the sake of a voice-over.

I would rather be able to actually customize my character than listen to a voice actor. And no, choosing male and female is NOT character customization. This wasn't even considered "customization" when the original Fallout came out, I can't fathom how the standard has fallen this low now.



I may be wrong but currently I have a feeling that the story of DA2 was originally intended for our main character from DA1 but it got cut and rewritten so it takes less time and effort to create the game with removing every possible background/race/decision you had and would had to be reacted to in DA2 otherwise

#15
MKDAWUSS

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So what's the subtitle of DA2?

#16
17thknight

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WingsandRings wrote...

And if they did go ahead and do a second DA:O, then guess what? Everyone would be disappointed and say it was just a "watered down copy" of the first one, and that there was nothing actually new or interesting in the second 2 that hadn't already been done in the first.

And this whole "we can't customize our characters" thing confuses me.  In my experience with RPGs, it's the choices you make IN the game, as opposed to what you do at the beginning (whether it's picking out a hairstyle or playing through a 40 minute origin story) that really customize your character and make him or her different from the other characters you've played.  So far with DA:O I've played 1 HNF and 2 Elves (1 city elf, one mage elf) and guess what? It's the dialogue and behavior choices I made that have made them different.  My HNF and city elf were both pretty do-gooders, but my mage is a bitter bitter lady.  That's what makes the game interesting.  Being giving those choices.  And I would THINK, if Bioware knows what they're doing, that with the limitation of 1 main character, the directions you're going to be allowed to take him or her, the amount of  character customization within the game itself, will be much much broader.

Let me explain why I disagree. My rebuttal to your point is these two games:

Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2.

BG2 is very similar to BG, on the surface. You could call it a "second" Baldur's Gate because...well...it is. And yet it was universally praised and lauded, not only for its own merits, but for dramatically improving on the series. Despite using the exact same game-engine, having the same major characters, and same overall concept, the game was recognized as a dramatic step forward for the series. NO ONE was disappointed with Baldur's Gate 2. The writing and story-telling improved dramatically but so did the character customization. They did not sacrifice one element of the series to improve the other, they improved the series as a whole.

They also did not fix what was not broken. The character creation was the same, but with expanded options. The combat played the same, yet was still improved upon technically and aesthetically.

What you are describing, as far as characters being based on the "in-game" choices directly applies to Mass Effect. This is a series where you are pigeon-holed into playing the character of "Shepard". Everyone has their own "Shepard" but in the end...it is ALWAYS Shepard. This character is not "you". It is not your vision of a character. It is Bioware's vision of a character, which you then have mild control over.

The reason that many players prefer dramatic character customization at the beginning is because any "customization" that occurs in-game via dialogue/etc. is merely illusory. It isn't real. Your character still moves along a finite set of paths, with a finite set of goals, towards an inevitable conclusion. The sole area where many people have the majority of their ability to influence their character, whether aesthetically or in demeanor, is in the actual character generation.

The elimination of this real customization means that you will solely be able to move a predefined character along a tiny number of paths. The character is no longer "you". It is someone else, and you're merely helping them along their journey, but the journey is no longer your own.

The Origin system was the most uniquely implemented manner of character customization that I have ever seen in an RPG. The Origins were a PART of the customization, not separate from it. They were not a part of the "overall" story. The story began at Ostagar, but the customization didn't end until your Origin story did. In Baldur's Gate you could choose to be an elf. But you never really saw what that meant. You just played a character that had the word "elf" on the character sheet, just like in most RPG's. With the Origins you were able to live your character's past, not just click on it and then begin a game that had nothing to do with what you had just chosen.

Rather than scrapping this beautiful system, it should solely have been improved upon.

MKDAWUSS wrote...

So what's the subtitle of DA2?


I'm
not sure they have one yet, or are even going to make one, which is
Wings' point. She's saying that DA2 does not have the Origins subtitle
and thus you should not expect it to be similar to Origins (or to have
the origin system).

Modifié par 17thknight, 12 juillet 2010 - 04:00 .


#17
WingsandRings

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I just don't see this "ME" way of doing it is that different than any of the other Bioware games in terms of customization. I mean, in KOTOR, you played (spoilers, I guess...) Revan. You could be male or female, a rogue, a soldier, or a something else, but you always played Revan. In Jade Empire, you played Master Li's student. Male or female, you were Master Li's student. Which of the 6 characters your chose really only mattered in so much as which backside you had to look at for the duration of the gameplay.



Nobody complained. Everyone still felt they could make choices about their character and their choices, nobody felt "pigeon-holed" into playing one character. But now because 1 game had this -- I agree, really really neat -- origins system, now everything without it is lacking?



...I just don't see it that way.



To answer MKD and agree with 17th, no they haven't announced a subtitle for it yet. I wouldn't be surprised if they gave it one, but they haven't announced it yet.

#18
LPPrince

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Dragon Age 2:Stop Complaining

#19
LPPrince

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Whoops. McDouble post.

Modifié par LPPrince, 12 juillet 2010 - 04:32 .


#20
17thknight

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WingsandRings wrote...

I just don't see this "ME" way of doing it is that different than any of the other Bioware games in terms of customization. I mean, in KOTOR, you played (spoilers, I guess...) Revan. You could be male or female, a rogue, a soldier, or a something else, but you always played Revan.


And that's the point. This is not KOTOR. This is not ME. This is not Jade Empire.

This is Dragon Age.

When I played Planescape: Torment I was not disappointed by the utter lack of character customization because it was not part of the Baldur's Gate series, despite using the Infinity Engine, and being set in a D&D universe. You were 1 character living 1 story, in a different world, in a different game series.

Yet if Baldur's Gate 2 had had the minimal amount of customization that Planescape: Torment did then the reviews would have savaged it, because the original Baldur's Gate had a fantastic amount of customization.

Dragon Age's shining light was that they took character customization to a new level. Now that the customization is nonexistant, it is more generic. It is now just like every other RPG you listed. It's Mass Effect all over again. It's Jade Empire all over again. It's KOTOR all over again.

Dragon Age was unique and special. It is very disappointing when what made it unique and special is lost.

Modifié par 17thknight, 12 juillet 2010 - 04:31 .


#21
WingsandRings

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But Dragon Age isn't about the Origins. Dragon Age: Origins is about the origins.



What's important for me is that it feels like the DA universe. I was right on board with people that said they didn't feel like Awakenings captured the spirit of Ferelden/Thedas like DA:O did, and that you didn't feel as immersed in the game. I certainly don't want to feel that way while playing DA2. But I'm just not convinced that the customization is the make-it-or-break-it piece of immersion. After all, DA:A brought over our character from DA:O and it was still missing.