1230 réponses à ce sujet

[CarlSpackler]

SKRemaks wrote...

I would say "take a deep breath and chill," but I know you won't.  Just remember why you fell in love with their games.  Was it because you liked being a Grey Warden, God Child, Super Soldier, etc.?  Or was it because you fell in love with the worlds and the characters they wrote for you?  Those won't change, no matter how much they change 

Enjoying the characters in a game and enjoying how the game allows you to play your own character aren't mutually exclusive.  Bethesda allows me to play my character about any way I would like  (within reason of course) and yet their games are hollow to me.  I do not enjoy them.  Conversely many action games have interesting characters most recently Red Dead Redemption for example.  That game has some very distinct and well-written characters, but it  definitely a predetermined character with a 3rd person narrative.  You have no say in terms of how the game or cutscenes play out.  DAO was loads of fun for me (along with KOTOR, BG2, JE, etc) because of the blending of the two things you've put at antimony above.  Now take the ME games, as I've repeatedly said I enjoyed those games a lot, (along with The Witcher for that matter) but not to the extent DAO (or the laundry list of games I named above.) The world of ME is also filled with a rich lore, specifically defined characters and a lot of choices, but its not me making the choices.

Oh and btw, I was once like you, a wallflower in the forums, reading but never posted.  Years went by, I posted a little here, and little there, and one day I woke up creating topics writing polemics.  So beware! 

Modifié par CarlSpackler, 13 juillet 2010 - 02:13 .

[Foolsfolly]

elikal71 wrote...

I know you don't want to hear it, but when Bioware was sold to EA, I KNEW this was coming. Compare Ultima 7 and Ultima 8. It will tell you ALL you need to know. It's not that EA is evil. Such would be childish to assume. EA means mass market of the smallest common thing. EA means endless copy cat series (FIFA) with minimal change and greatest possible simplification.

It continues like this for a long while...

Wow, you're unpleasable. I think you'd enjoy playing Dungeons & Dragons with your friends. You're like a friend of mine who absolutely hates video game RPGs because they're too contained and leave little for the player to actually decide.

In computer games we have a role we must play and that's the role given to us by the developers. This is true for every game, even RPGs.

And Ecael proves to be one of the better posters of yet another thread. Cheers, mate!

Modifié par Foolsfolly, 13 juillet 2010 - 03:25 .

[DragonRageGT]

SKRemaks wrote...


PS  How about Jennifer Hale for LadyHawke?  It's really strange, but my internal voice now sounds like her.  Weird, but true!

There you have it. Mass female Shepa Hawke! NOOOOOO! At the very least give us a fresh voice. Don't ruin my yet-to-have female ME experience. I intend to try it someday but like Carl said just above, yes I enjoyed ME and ME2 quite a lot, for all the 4 runs I made on the first, 3 on the second. It will take quite a while before I can touch that game again.

I love The Witcher, the lore, the world, Geralt, his companions, and yet, I've done 3 full runs trying different possibilities to building the char regarding his skills and one more with the one I enjoyed the most but it will take quite a while before I can touch that game again.

I love Risen an it's "Spiritual Sucessor of Gothic" title. I've done 7 full runs in a row just before DA:O was released. 50 amazing hours each. Trying all different classes, combos, factions, approaches. The Nameless Hero is one amazing character, well, except when he joins with "The Order"... it feels wrong but it's the only way to become a Paladin in that game.  It will take me a long while to touch that game again.

I've done more runs than I can count in Dragon Age. Over 110 videos of the game, all NM, with a few different chars, a few with over 40k views, the rest totalizing opver 600k views and a few new customers to BW with them - they said so in their comments. I'm prolly around the 20th run, sometimes with my favourite Rage char reborn and replayed, many times with fresh chars, all the Origins, my alter-ego Elven Archer who might speak Sindarin in Thedas if there was a way, after living over 5 years in NWN's PWs LotR based, a few aborted runs with mages which I hate to play (but don't mind having them in the party sometimes, while it's also fun to have a no-mages party),

The least I expect from a Dragon Age sequel is that it will hook me as much as the original game while inspiring me as many playthroughs. From what I've read of it, I don't think it will. Perhaps 5 or 6 like Risen and then it will be a long while before I touch it again. I'm having trouble even to pass the first part of Leliana's Song DLC because, well, while I love Leliana and she's the big star of my videos, thanks to you guys and Ms. Kempa, it feels weird playing her without my own char along in the party.

(Plus anytime I launch Dragon Age since 1.03 it launches my PC temp close to 100 Celsus while no other game of mine and I have lots of them, heavier system demanders than DA do not do that!)

Modifié par RageGT, 13 juillet 2010 - 03:38 .

[DragonRageGT]

Foolsfolly wrote...

elikal71 wrote...

I know you don't want to hear it, but when Bioware was sold to EA, I KNEW this was coming. Compare Ultima 7 and Ultima 8. It will tell you ALL you need to know. It's not that EA is evil. Such would be childish to assume. EA means mass market of the smallest common thing. EA means endless copy cat series (FIFA) with minimal change and greatest possible simplification.

It continues like this for a long while...

Wow, you're unpleasable. I think you'd enjoy playing Dungeons & Dragons with your friends. You're like a friend of mine who absolutely hates video game RPGs because they're too contained and leave little for the player to actually decide.

In computer games we have a role we must play and that's the role given to us by the developers. This is true for every game, even RPGs.

And Ecael proves to be one of the better posters of yet another thread. Cheers, mate!

Well, the part of Elikal's post you quoted is very true, you know. Ever played EA Sports NBA or FIFA games? Ever played Ultima before EA got their hands on the franchise? EA's reputation is not undeserved. And for the rest of his post, there are many good points on it.

[Ecael]

RageGT wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

elikal71 wrote...

I know you don't want to hear it, but when Bioware was sold to EA, I KNEW this was coming. Compare Ultima 7 and Ultima 8. It will tell you ALL you need to know. It's not that EA is evil. Such would be childish to assume. EA means mass market of the smallest common thing. EA means endless copy cat series (FIFA) with minimal change and greatest possible simplification.

It continues like this for a long while...

Wow, you're unpleasable. I think you'd enjoy playing Dungeons & Dragons with your friends. You're like a friend of mine who absolutely hates video game RPGs because they're too contained and leave little for the player to actually decide.

In computer games we have a role we must play and that's the role given to us by the developers. This is true for every game, even RPGs.

And Ecael proves to be one of the better posters of yet another thread. Cheers, mate!

Well, the part of Elikal's post you quoted is very true, you know. Ever played EA Sports NBA or FIFA games? Ever played Ultima before EA got their hands on the franchise? EA's reputation is not undeserved. And for the rest of his post, there are many good points on it.

There isn't much creativity allowed with EA's sports games because they can't change the rules. All they can do is update the graphics and update the roster.

If you had a team of BioWare writers on it though, you could probably write a good sports game that plays out a lot like The Blind Side with tons of dialogue and storyline in it.

[Davasar]

But, they have destroyed those afore mentioned studios with their mass market, corporate selling strategy.



So instead of amazingly good games, you end up with "Meh, I guess it was ok..." Which is exactly what happened with Awakening.

[LPPrince]

Ecael wrote...

If you had a team of BioWare writers on it though, you could probably write a good sports game that plays out a lot like The Blind Side with tons of dialogue and storyline in it.

That's probably not a bad idea, actually. Rofl.

[Massadonious1]

Jestina wrote...

17thknight wrote...

Jestina wrote...
We had many options in DA:O.
It wasn't a straight shootfest from beginning to end with glitzy cinematics filling up much of the time. That might be your cup of tea, but you've got ME...what RPG fans on here don't want is DA turning into ME.

I think we both know it's far too late for that. Our series is dead. I mean, really, they even shoved the awful little dialogue wheel into DA2. It's as Mass-Effected as it could get withiout being in space.

This forum has been Mass Effected too. You can tell by their avatars usually.

Awesome, now I'm being generalized by my avatar.

[Leanansidhe]

RageGT wrote...

SKRemaks wrote...


PS  How about Jennifer Hale for LadyHawke?  It's really strange, but my internal voice now sounds like her.  Weird, but true!

There you have it. Mass female Shepa Hawke! NOOOOOO! At the very least give us a fresh voice. Don't ruin my yet-to-have female ME experience. I intend to try it someday but like Carl said just above, yes I enjoyed ME and ME2 quite a lot, for all the 4 runs I made on the first, 3 on the second. It will take quite a while before I can touch that game again.

I was trying to add a bit of levity into an otherwise serious post.  I thought the smiley would have made that clear.  I'm not really advocating Jennifer Hale for LadyHawke. 

This is why I don't post.

*goes back to lurking*

[Solid N7]

elikal71 wrote...

I know you don't want to hear it, but when Bioware was sold to EA, I KNEW this was coming. Compare Ultima 7 and Ultima 8. It will tell you ALL you need to know. It's not that EA is evil. Such would be childish to assume. EA means mass market of the smallest common thing. EA means endless copy cat series (FIFA) with minimal change and greatest possible simplification.

The sheer number of creative small studios who had been bought by EA and over a brief time crushed, is long and sad. Bullfrog, Westwood, Origin and many others. The story was always the same. A small studio, famous and respected for making very creative games, not for a huge Wal-Mart mass market, but for demanding gamers, then bought by EA, streamlined for mass market taste and ultimately made superfluous.


Look at you, Bioware. Look how you changed. Some time ago, when I heard the news Bioware was sold to EA, I was very bitter and felt it was the end of an era. Then, for a while, I thought there was hope, I thought EA had learned. Apparently my fears back then were fully justified.


I am a Game Master for P&P games for 27 years now. And let me tell you one thing, Bioware. A ROLEPLAYING game, means that the people involved identify with a role. They want a vast variety of races and classes, they want a huge plethora of skills and talents to chose from. The more the better. There were days when games like Wizardry or Might and Magic (the RPG) had 30 classes and 20 races to chose from. And then?

Then came VOICE OVER. Then came streamlined story telling. It weren't huge steps in a single game. But step by step, little by litte, what made a game a RPG was betrayed and sacrificed on the altar of so called mass market. Now suddenly you speak of aiming it for your target audience, Bioware. I tell you what. WE used to be your target audience. WE roleplayers made you great. And now that Darth EA is behind you, we no longer count. We are no longer enough for you. We get the burning ring before us like some tamed animal and we can jump at your whim. Take it or leave it. I am sorry, what you are doing is wrong.

It is wrong because it leaves us behind who were your fans for so many years. It is wrong because we made you what you are and now suddenly we are neglectable and other people seem to be your new target audience. It is wrong, because THAT target audience may be more. But they are also fickle. They follow always the newst shiny. Today it's you, tommorw who knows. Ask SOE about their NGE and what they learned about leaving it's core audience behind. And this IS some sort of NGE. Every single approach to ignore the complaints of the core audience has, in the long run, proven to be a failure. Look at the "Last Airbender" movie. It was the same argument: they thought to bring something to a supposed broarder audience, and ignored to critique of their core fanbase they paid the price for it.


Individuality and choice from the beginning on, is one of the core features of a RPG. And what we read sounds like an interactive movie. And already DA:O and ME2 had gone in the wrong direction. Many old school roleplayers had complained about WAY too many and way too long cinenatic scenes and cinematic conversations. Thats not what makes a Roleplaying Game! And in ME2 we had seen the choices even further limited, and essentially ME2 was mostly an interactive movie with shooter elements. It already was no RPG. Now in Sci-Fi people may be more forgiving, especially when it is a new unknown universe. But in fantasy, people EXPECT Elves, Dwarfs and whatnot. They expect many choices and many egos they can play. They don't expect an entirely premade character.



As nice as Voiceover is, it also means the character is not me anymore. What did the Avatar of Britannia, one of the most iconic heroes of gaming say? Name, Job, Bye. He never said anything, because he WAS us. He was the player. And nothing you can voiceover can be so personal as what you imagine in your mind. What you set a characters name and voice, his behavior and backstory, its no longer me. It's some stranger I follow his doings over the shoulder, but I am no longer playing myself, and THEN all those tough moral choices you add to your games mean null.

Bioware, you are losing the path. I know you listen to the EA stockholders who want profit. They want to sell millions of games, and they care less about the small RPG fan community who made you great. I can't even say it will be a financial failure if you follow this path. Heck, many generic games sell in many millions. But for us, who love complex games, who love to chose, who love to ROLEPLAY and not follow some premade characters preset narrative story, for us it is a betrayal. Do it if you think stocks are everything. But don't call it a roleplaying game and know that you are leaving us behind. You are walking a path I as a Roleplayer can not follow you.

Let me tell you something you are a sad person, geeezzz you a freak and otaku  get a life

[Ecael]

Davasar wrote...

But, they have destroyed those afore mentioned studios with their mass market, corporate selling strategy.

So instead of amazingly good games, you end up with "Meh, I guess it was ok..." Which is exactly what happened with Awakening.

And what happened with Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age: Origins?

[joriandrake]

@Solid N7



leave the proud otakus alone =)

[Davasar]

Ecael wrote...

Davasar wrote...

But, they have destroyed those afore mentioned studios with their mass market, corporate selling strategy.

So instead of amazingly good games, you end up with "Meh, I guess it was ok..." Which is exactly what happened with Awakening.

And what happened with Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age: Origins?

Mass effect 2, wasnt liked as much as Mass Effect 1 by the fans.

DAO was in production for quite a long time before EA got a hold of Bioware.

Not going to mention Awakening?  Oh right, because it had the exact same reaction from the fans that the example of ME2 and ME1 had. 

lern2cherrypick

Still doing your self admitted purposefully argumention for the sake of arguing?

Next.

[Onyx Jaguar]

DAO was in production for awhile



But the version you see now was built under EA's control



And also ME1 fans put off by ME2? Yeah, keep telling yourself that. A group of fans will always turn on a sequel for whatever reason.

[Davasar]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

And also ME1 fans put off by ME2? Yeah, keep telling yourself that. A group of fans will always turn on a sequel for whatever reason.

So, it happened like I said it did.  Gotcha.

[Solid N7]

Davasar wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Davasar wrote...

But, they have destroyed those afore mentioned studios with their mass market, corporate selling strategy.

So instead of amazingly good games, you end up with "Meh, I guess it was ok..." Which is exactly what happened with Awakening.

And what happened with Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age: Origins?

Mass effect 2, wasnt liked as much as Mass Effect 1 by the fans.

DAO was in production for quite a long time before EA got a hold of Bioware.

Not going to mention Awakening?  Oh right, because it had the exact same reaction from the fans that the example of ME2 and ME1 had. 

lern2cherrypick

Still doing your self admitted purposefully argumention for the sake of arguing?

Next.

P

Mass effect 2, wasnt liked as much as Mass Effect 1 by the hardcore rpg PC  (otakus )gamers 

[Onyx Jaguar]

Mass effect 2, wasnt liked as much as Mass Effect 1 by the fans.

Implies that ME 1 fans did not like ME2 as much, which is wrong. Some ME 1 fans did not like ME 2 as much. Some liked as much and some liked it more.

[Massadonious1]

14,320 "fans" would like to disagree.

As of right now, it is in a 3 way tie for the second highest rated game on GameFly's site. It used to be tied for first, but Uncharted 2 has gained .1 point since I took that screenshot.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 13 juillet 2010 - 08:45 .

[Solid N7]

again I repeat Mass effect 2, wasnt liked as much as Mass Effect 1 by the hardcore rpg PC (otakus )gamers

[Onyx Jaguar]

So you are saying I should read all of their posts in the voice of Robin Atkin Downes?

[Davasar]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Mass effect 2, wasnt liked as much as Mass Effect 1 by the fans.

Implies that ME 1 fans did not like ME2 as much, which is wrong. Some ME 1 fans did not like ME 2 as much. Some liked as much and some liked it more.

Modern Warfare 1, Modern Warfare 2.

Hardly any complaints from 1 to 2 because they didnt fix what wasnt broken.

When you have success, improve what you have, add some more things, and you will sell massive numbers of games like MW2 did.

Otherwise you lose fans and have complaints.  Though not all, as you stated.

[Massadonious1]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

So you are saying I should read all of their posts in the voice of Robin Atkin Downes?

[Onyx Jaguar]

Lies



MW2 has probably the same amount of complaints since the mp is a glitch fest and they neglected the story.



Happens to all sequels and the more things stay the same the more MEGA MAN

[Solid N7]

Like jaiver begazo said in another thread all the complains about mass effect 2 and DA2 come from pc gamers.

[Massadonious1]

Adding anything in Modern Warfare is is like adding chocolate to milk.