1230 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerevar-as]

The good dungeon crawlers times...

[Solid N7]

again is your opinion that mass effect 2 is a mediocre game and that fine is your opinion but don´t generalize.

[Khavos]

Solid N7 wrote...
^^this

What about it?  He completely missed the point of my post.  My issue isn't with the fleshed-out main character, and I never said otherwise. 

Solid N7
wrote...

again is your opinion that mass effect 2 is a mediocre
game and that fine is your opinion but don´t generalize.

Solid N7 wrote...
Again only  "PC gamers with this crazy obssesion about roleplaying  believe that mass effect 2 is  a mediocre game only this faction, this is the problem with the pc gamers always generalize about things.

Seems like you're the one generalizing, sport.  I explained why I personally find ME2 to be a mediocre game; you've consistently claimed that all PC gamers have a crazy obsession with roleplaying and believe it is a mediocre game because of it.  

Modifié par Khavos, 13 juillet 2010 - 05:35 .

[Nerevar-as]

I didn´t find that much difference in gameplay between the MEs, just the biotics powerdown and running out of sniping shots. Yet a lot of people wnet berserk about it.

Modifié par Nerevar-as, 13 juillet 2010 - 05:35 .

[the_one_54321]

Because Mr. Woo has been redirecting some traffic to this thread:

Stanley Woo wrote...
"Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973 but the average gamer is as drunk and stupid as ever. The one that's changed is me! Let's face it, I've become bitter, even crazy over the years, and once DA][ is swept into the market I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place! Woo hoo hoo hoo hahahahahahahaha!"

(note: this is intended to be a humorous misquote, and hopefully a lot of folks will get the reference)

Modifié par the_one_54321, 13 juillet 2010 - 05:44 .

[Khavos]

Nerevar-as wrote...

I didn´t find that much difference in gameplay between the MEs, just the biotics powerdown and running out of sniping shots. Yet a lot of people wnet berserk about it.

So you missed the massive reduction in skills, the cover system, the upgrade system, etc?

A lot was changed.  All of it geared towards turning ME2 into a third-person shooter rather than a TPS/RPG hybrid.  It worked.  Trouble is, the TPS gameplay simply wasn't good.  

[Solid N7]

I dont´ generalize what I said is a fact when many threads about complains that come from pc gamers and make multi accounts to make these kind of threads

[Nerevar-as]

Khavos wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

I didn´t find that much difference in gameplay between the MEs, just the biotics powerdown and running out of sniping shots. Yet a lot of people wnet berserk about it.

So you missed the massive reduction in skills, the cover system, the upgrade system, etc?

A lot was changed.  All of it geared towards turning ME2 into a third-person shooter rather than a TPS/RPG hybrid.  It worked.  Trouble is, the TPS gameplay simply wasn't good.  

Point taken with weapon modding. Put it back please! (Kotor2 system). Skills? Not so different really from my POV. Just not needing the hacker character. Playing experience was quite similar for me. Storywise is another matter but had been expecting that since 2009 E3

[Nerevar-as]

Solid N7 wrote...

I dont´ generalize what I said is a fact when many threads about complains that come from pc gamers and make multi accounts to make these kind of threads

I don´t think that kind of behavior has anything to do with playing system N7.

[AlanC9]

Khavos wrote...
Trouble is, the TPS gameplay simply wasn't good.  

And ME1's was?

[Khavos]

Nerevar-as wrote...
Point taken with weapon modding. Put it back please! (Kotor2 system). Skills? Not so different really from my POV. Just not needing the hacker character. Playing experience was quite similar for me. Storywise is another matter but had been expecting that since 2009 E3

The skills were a huge change, honestly.  There were tons of them in ME1, and you could make the argument that a lot were simply CRPG hold-overs that were out of place, but as clunky as the system was, it worked, and you could at least have some variety.

Variety's out the door with ME2's skill system, as is the impact of those skills.  When you can get through the game on its hardest difficulty setting without every once spending a skill point, it makes it clear that they're kind of superfluous and don't really have an impact.  The game would play the exact same if they removed the skills completely and simply gave you a +X bonus to whatever when you leveled, because it's not exactly like you have a lot of choice where to put those points in the first place.

[Khavos]

AlanC9 wrote...

Khavos wrote...
Trouble is, the TPS gameplay simply wasn't good.  

And ME1's was?

No.  ME2's a far better TPS than ME1.  That doesn't make it a good TPS, and the real problem is that's ALL that ME2 is, a TPS.  ME1 was actually what they said it was going to be, a hybridized action-RPG combat system.  It was clunky and very breakable, and as a TPS it was awfully lame, but as an RPG, it was decent, or at least not the worst I've seen.  

[Nerevar-as]

At the end of the day (lvl 57/8) there was no significant difference for me, and same in ME2. Let´s agree to disagree here.

You tried Insanity without levelling skills? WOW.

[In Exile]

Nerevar-as wrote...
Point taken with weapon modding. Put it back please! (Kotor2 system). Skills? Not so different really from my POV. Just not needing the hacker character. Playing experience was quite similar for me. Storywise is another matter but had been expecting that since 2009 E3

I didn't find those changes to be so dramatic. They compressed the experience system, but IMO that wasn't an issue. You effectively leveled slower and had a greater impact in skill. What was poor IMO was mission leveling versus combat leveling, though in practice you could say this is a twist on how many favour XP to only come after completing quests versus combat. Losing weapon skills balanced out with class restriction on weapons which IMO makes way more sense.

The big loss was in party customizability and the loss of armour for other members of the party for nonsensical breathing masks and cotton clothes. They're asking me to believe that Shepard's massive N7 armour is equivalent to Jack having straps over her breasts in terms of stopping bullets? Beyond that, you lost variety in the skills.

To be honest, I didn't see ME as having RPG qualities in the first place with how they handled the system. The changes to ME2 weren't a big deal beyond taking away party customizability with regard to armour. I actually like the set piece approach they used with Shepard since it distinguished his armour way more from palatte swaps, but they should have kept it for the rest of the party.

The story was just a re-tread of ME1, though. Cerberus? Bleh.

I don't think ME2 went away too strongly from ME1 gameplay wise except for removing bad implementations of RPG-like mechanics in an action RPG (like the skill dependent aiming; always a terrible mistake if it isn't turn-base or isometric pretend turn base). So based on that switch I wouldn't worry about DA2 gameplay wise so strongly. From what I saw the console version of DA:O was nothing like the isometric PC anyway, so the fact they're revamping it doesn't mean anything.

They're retaining the full writing team unlike ME, so I think we'll see much greater story consistency between the two. VO may not be what most people like, but I think that's your major departure, not gameplay changes. Atleast, based on what we know right now.

[In Exile]

Khavos wrote...
No.  ME2's a far better TPS than ME1.  That doesn't make it a good TPS, and the real problem is that's ALL that ME2 is, a TPS.  ME1 was actually what they said it was going to be, a hybridized action-RPG combat system.  It was clunky and very breakable, and as a TPS it was awfully lame, but as an RPG, it was decent, or at least not the worst I've seen. 

It was in no way an RPG. You persuade was a horrible joke inflicted on the player, because it was completely depended on the combination of aligment points and a skill dump. They went in the completely opposite direction in ME2 that I would have hoped, but they made a lot of the skill checks easier so you could conceivably use intimidate and persuade much more fluently depending on the situation. DA:O handled persuasion much better.

In terms of RPG mechanics I thought it combined the worst of both worlds. It wanted to be a TPS, but made aiming skill dependent. That just made some weapons really suck until level 20. They simplified and compressed, and I agree we lost variety, but I just cannot see ME1 as having been an RPG in any meaningful way in the first place. It just didn't have enough gameplay elements. 

Most skills provided nothing outside of small bonuses and a slightly better ability. Take 3 points in pistols and maybe you get 3 extra shots, plus 10% damage per shot. That's not awesome RPG skill. Compare that to DA:O where each talent and skill point give you a new ability or a much higher ability in the tree.

[LPPrince]

In Exile wrote...

DA:O handled persuasion much better.

Lets compare, shall we?

ME1-

Paragon and Renegade skills. Points added to such would improve your ability to pass the respective checks.

class skills also raised said ability.

ME2- Paragon and Renegade meters. The more options chosen for an alignment would improve your ability to pass the same respective check.

class skills also raised said ability.

DAO- Coercion skill. The more points added to such would improve your ability to pass any checks.

Persuasion checks are more easily passed with a higher Cunning score.

Intimidation checks are more easily passed with a higher Strength score.

Not saying you're right or wrong. Just figured I'd throw this out there.

I wish ME3 would have a Persuasion/Coercion skill that handled both Paragon and Renegade, really.

[Khavos]

Nerevar-as wrote...
You tried Insanity without levelling skills? WOW.

It's really not that bad, just even more tedious than Insanity with skills.  With the exception of Husks, the AI is content to simply sit and shoot all day long, and you're never, ever without cover to do the same, so it's just a matter of time. 

[Khavos]

In Exile wrote...

Khavos wrote...
No.  ME2's a far better TPS than ME1.  That doesn't make it a good TPS, and the real problem is that's ALL that ME2 is, a TPS.  ME1 was actually what they said it was going to be, a hybridized action-RPG combat system.  It was clunky and very breakable, and as a TPS it was awfully lame, but as an RPG, it was decent, or at least not the worst I've seen. 

It was in no way an RPG. You persuade was a horrible joke inflicted on the player, because it was completely depended on the combination of aligment points and a skill dump. They went in the completely opposite direction in ME2 that I would have hoped, but they made a lot of the skill checks easier so you could conceivably use intimidate and persuade much more fluently depending on the situation. DA:O handled persuasion much better.

In terms of RPG mechanics I thought it combined the worst of both worlds. It wanted to be a TPS, but made aiming skill dependent. That just made some weapons really suck until level 20. They simplified and compressed, and I agree we lost variety, but I just cannot see ME1 as having been an RPG in any meaningful way in the first place. It just didn't have enough gameplay elements. 

Most skills provided nothing outside of small bonuses and a slightly better ability. Take 3 points in pistols and maybe you get 3 extra shots, plus 10% damage per shot. That's not awesome RPG skill. Compare that to DA:O where each talent and skill point give you a new ability or a much higher ability in the tree.

Oh, I never said ME1 was a great RPG.  But it was exactly as described, an action-RPG hybrid.  The system wasn't great, or even good, but it was much, MUCH better at maintaining an actual RPG feel compared to the pure third-person shooter that is ME2. 

[tyeomer]

CarlSpackler wrote...
 The admittedly few few revelations of DA2 released are foreshadowing a slightly (or drastically depending on your view) type of game than DAO. [...]
To be more specific going from a 1st person narrative to a 3rd (a la Hawke via Sheppard), using the dialog wheel, and fully voiced PC.  

If true, I welcome the change. On the countrary to what you are suggesting, it would feel more like 1st person to me. In DA it always felt like I wasn't there, like I was a ghost among the real characters who actually TALKED during the scenes. It broke the immersion for me.

Might still not get into DA2 because of other reasons though. I'm not into DLC, and I'd like development to go into more actual bugfixes, game is not fluid enough for the mem/CPU/GPU resources it drains. And please I

_don't want to assemble another army!_

It has been done and done and redone, please STOP.

[facialstrokage]

Should I remind these wonderful folks that the past two pages have all been about Mass Effect? Perhaps we should get back on track to DA2 more than ME? I mean, with all due respect, there is a ME forum like 2 clicks away.

[Nerevar-as]

facialstrokage wrote...

Should I remind these wonderful folks that the past two pages have all been about Mass Effect? Perhaps we should get back on track to DA2 more than ME? I mean, with all due respect, there is a ME forum like 2 clicks away.

I guess it is because of the supposed changes in DA2 and the ones in ME2 vs ME1, but yes, we went offtopic.
Can anyone please explain the 1st vs 3rd person issue? Don´t get how VO or origins removal mean that.

[CarlSpackler]

tyeomer wrote...

CarlSpackler wrote...
 The admittedly few few revelations of DA2 released are foreshadowing a slightly (or drastically depending on your view) type of game than DAO. [...]
To be more specific going from a 1st person narrative to a 3rd (a la Hawke via Sheppard), using the dialog wheel, and fully voiced PC.  

If true, I welcome the change. On the countrary to what you are suggesting, it would feel more like 1st person to me. In DA it always felt like I wasn't there, like I was a ghost among the real characters who actually TALKED during the scenes. It broke the immersion for me.

Eh, different strokes for different folks.  I can only speak to my immersion which was definitely greater with the DAO model than the ME model.

Modifié par CarlSpackler, 13 juillet 2010 - 07:07 .

[DragonRageGT]

SKRemaks wrote...

RageGT wrote...

SKRemaks wrote...


PS  How about Jennifer Hale for LadyHawke?  It's really strange, but my internal voice now sounds like her.  Weird, but true!

There you have it. Mass female Shepa Hawke! NOOOOOO! At the very least give us a fresh voice. Don't ruin my yet-to-have female ME experience. I intend to try it someday but like Carl said just above, yes I enjoyed ME and ME2 quite a lot, for all the 4 runs I made on the first, 3 on the second. It will take quite a while before I can touch that game again.

I was trying to add a bit of levity into an otherwise serious post.  I thought the smiley would have made that clear.  I'm not really advocating Jennifer Hale for LadyHawke. 

This is why I don't post.

*goes back to lurking*

Oh please, don't mind me. I never post anything that seriously. I didn't play female Shepa so I was just trying to motivate me to do it before DA2 is release. Please come back and post more. I'd approve Mike Meer for male Shepa Hawke though. It would make a lot of sense...

[AlanC9]

LPPrince wrote...

Lets compare, shall we?

ME1-

Paragon and Renegade skills. Points added to such would improve your ability to pass the respective checks.

class skills also raised said ability.

ME2- Paragon and Renegade meters. The more options chosen for an alignment would improve your ability to pass the same respective check.

class skills also raised said ability.

DAO- Coercion skill. The more points added to such would improve your ability to pass any checks.

Persuasion checks are more easily passed with a higher Cunning score.

Intimidation checks are more easily passed with a higher Strength score.

Not saying you're right or wrong. Just figured I'd throw this out there.

I wish ME3 would have a Persuasion/Coercion skill that handled both Paragon and Renegade, really.

I hated ME2's implementation because it rewards following the morality meter rather than making your own decisions.

I'm OK with ME1 and DAO, though I think magi should have a bonus to Intimidation in DAO. I can go either way on whether there should be one skill or two; they're abilities that are related but not identical.