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Any insight into the "why" and "when" on the direction of DA2....


1230 réponses à ce sujet

#26
joriandrake

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David Gaider wrote...

Perhaps in the end DA2 won't be for you after all. That's fair. You should be able to judge prior to actually playing it-- there will be information galore available prior to its release, I'm sure. But if you want to have questions asking the "why" regarding our approach taken seriously, it might be sensible to wait and see what that approach is first.



to be fair it is only rarely possible to know if you like some game or not before you actually play it for a couple of hours or days

#27
Ecael

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David Gaider wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
I wonder how many times David has to stress this before everyone understands what he means.

I'll bet Eleventeen more times.

Well, I imagine until we put out more information on the game. Then people will either feel their fears have been prophetic or get to be pleasantly surprised. Win/win, I suppose.

Even better when the game gets released. Either they feel their fears have been prophetic or, in the case everything is actually what they wanted it to be, they're going to feel that their complaining was justified.

#28
Jimmy Fury

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David Gaider wrote...
Then people will either feel their fears have been prophetic or get to be pleasantly surprised. Win/win, I suppose.

I don't know why but that just reminded me of Gir screaming 'YAAAAAAY DOOM!"

I think people should take a deep breath, dial back the paranoia, and crank up the imagination.
I'll admit to a knee jerk fear (well, the one thing I'm afraid of I still fear but eh) but then I got to thinking of all the good that could be on the way. All the disc space, development time, and resources that have been opened up since the origin campaigns are gone. The improvements to animation and armors since there will only be one PC skeletal size.

#29
LPPrince

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Ecael wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
I wonder how many times David has to stress this before everyone understands what he means.

I'll bet Eleventeen more times.

Well, I imagine until we put out more information on the game. Then people will either feel their fears have been prophetic or get to be pleasantly surprised. Win/win, I suppose.

Even better when the game gets released. Either they feel their fears have been prophetic or, in the case everything is actually what they wanted it to be, they're going to feel that their complaining was justified.


Until Chris Priestly breaks down the door like Bob Kelso and reminds them that complaining didn't change anything.

#30
David Gaider

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joriandrake wrote...

I don't believe anyone would be happy if their fears become real, that is like doomsayers at the start of apocalypse cheering and saying "I told you so"


I think you underestimate the pleasure people get in feeling they were right about something.

And, hey, when the apocalypse begins I imagine getting in a last "I told you so" wouldn't be such a bad idea. ;)

#31
LPPrince

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David Gaider wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

I don't believe anyone would be happy if their fears become real, that is like doomsayers at the start of apocalypse cheering and saying "I told you so"


I think you underestimate the pleasure people get in feeling they were right about something.

And, hey, when the apocalypse begins I imagine getting in a last "I told you so" wouldn't be such a bad idea. ;)


See? I told you so.

HEY, THAT DOES FEEL GOOD!

#32
Onyx Jaguar

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joriandrake wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
I wonder how many times David has to stress this before everyone understands what he means.

I'll bet Eleventeen more times.

Well, I imagine until we put out more information on the game. Then people will either feel their fears have been prophetic or get to be pleasantly surprised. Win/win, I suppose.


I don't believe anyone would be happy if their fears become real, that is like doomsayers at the start of apocalypse cheering and saying "I told you so"


You have never met me I take it

#33
SDNcN

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Jimmy Fury wrote...

I don't know why but that just reminded me of Gir screaming 'YAAAAAAY DOOM!"


And I'm gonna sing the doom song.

Modifié par SDNcN, 12 juillet 2010 - 02:49 .


#34
joriandrake

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David Gaider wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

I don't believe anyone would be happy if their fears become real, that is like doomsayers at the start of apocalypse cheering and saying "I told you so"


I think you underestimate the pleasure people get in feeling they were right about something.

And, hey, when the apocalypse begins I imagine getting in a last "I told you so" wouldn't be such a bad idea. ;)



as for me, I hope you can prove me wrong about my first thoughts about DA2, and my huge dissappointment about not being able to play as a city elf again will fade away




ah yes, and it definetly needs capes and horses
(or start thinking about how to make swimming, climbing, jumping, maybe even diving and flying possible for atleast DA3, Divinity 2 was enjoyable for me mostly because it allowed you these in human or dragon form, it is a disgrace that in the year 2010 Bioware still didn't implement these in its games)

Modifié par joriandrake, 12 juillet 2010 - 02:52 .


#35
phaonica

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Maybe we should just lock down this board right now, since everyone's fears, excitement, trust, or disappointment are completely unfounded, given that we have so little information, and not worth discussion. :(

#36
Guest_MessyPossum_*

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phaonica wrote...

Maybe we should just lock down this board right now, since everyone's fears, excitement, trust, or disappointment are completely unfounded, given that we have so little information, and not worth discussion. :(

This is the most awesome thing I've heard today. But I wonder where all the hate and malcontent will go to fester...

#37
Altima Darkspells

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I'm actually curious as to how these changes will affect game length and replayability.



Since there are no origins, no race choice, and so on, one would think that you can get just about everything in the game through two playthroughs.



Given the low development time and the voiced main character, it also implies that the game will be significantly shorter than the first.



It'd be interesting to see if BioWare planned for DAO to be as long as it did or if it happened. Personally, I'd be very disappointed if you can get through the meat of the game (ie, the main part of the game not invovling any artificial lengthening like planet scanning or driving around in a rover) in under twenty hours.

#38
Ecael

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Altima Darkspells wrote...

I'm actually curious as to how these changes will affect game length and replayability.

Since there are no origins, no race choice, and so on, one would think that you can get just about everything in the game through two playthroughs.

Given the low development time and the voiced main character, it also implies that the game will be significantly shorter than the first.

It'd be interesting to see if BioWare planned for DAO to be as long as it did or if it happened. Personally, I'd be very disappointed if you can get through the meat of the game (ie, the main part of the game not invovling any artificial lengthening like planet scanning or driving around in a rover) in under twenty hours.

Mass Effect 2 had a shorter development time and ended up having twice as much dialogue. It was also significantly longer than the first.

Also, we have yet to find out more about the character classes.

#39
phaonica

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MessyPossum wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Maybe we should just lock down this board right now, since everyone's fears, excitement, trust, or disappointment are completely unfounded, given that we have so little information, and not worth discussion. :(

This is the most awesome thing I've heard today. But I wonder where all the hate and malcontent will go to fester...



They want to keep it here, so that in the process, they still have the chance to convince the knee-jerk reaction haters. If they didn't have this board they would wander away to another board to complain and possibly never be back. It's a trap!

#40
LPPrince

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If they took this part of the forums down, all the hate would spread out. At least its contained here.



For now.

#41
Ecael

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phaonica wrote...

MessyPossum wrote...

phaonica wrote...
Maybe we should just lock down this board right now, since everyone's fears, excitement, trust, or disappointment are completely unfounded, given that we have so little information, and not worth discussion. :(

This is the most awesome thing I've heard today. But I wonder where all the hate and malcontent will go to fester...

They want to keep it here, so that in the process, they still have the chance to convince the knee-jerk reaction haters. If they didn't have this board they would wander away to another board to complain and possibly never be back. It's a trap!

Image IPB

#42
phaonica

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Ecael wrote...

phaonica wrote...

MessyPossum wrote...

phaonica wrote...
Maybe we should just lock down this board right now, since everyone's fears, excitement, trust, or disappointment are completely unfounded, given that we have so little information, and not worth discussion. :(

This is the most awesome thing I've heard today. But I wonder where all the hate and malcontent will go to fester...

They want to keep it here, so that in the process, they still have the chance to convince the knee-jerk reaction haters. If they didn't have this board they would wander away to another board to complain and possibly never be back. It's a trap!

Image IPB



All we hear is, "it's going to be fine" "trust me, you'll see" "just wait and find out". What's the point of these boards if we're just supposed to wait? We can only discuss what we know, and if we don't know enough to have an impression to discuss, then why are these boards here?

#43
LPPrince

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We have things to discuss already. Info will slowly be seeped to us, that's why we're here.

#44
joriandrake

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I believe the information "Output" is done poorly, Bioware should have inform us about inability of character transfer together with still using the save in an other way first, then in another "packet" tell us about race restriction and something positive to balance that news out too

#45
17thknight

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David Gaider wrote...

I would suggest that you wait to hear exactly what our approach is before trying to figure out whether it's what you're interested in or not.

People appear to be acting as if the scant details we've revealed are all they'll ever learn about the game ever, and they're thus required to render judgment immediately.

You're really not. You might, in fact, want to see exactly how we're implementing these features you dislike and seeing for yourself whether they differ from, say, Mass Effect's. There are similarities, of course, but there are also differences... and to assume you know everything about how the game is going to feel based off the most cursory of information is just going to make you look foolish.

Perhaps in the end DA2 won't be for you after all. That's fair. You should be able to judge prior to actually playing it-- there will be information galore available prior to its release, I'm sure. But if you want to have questions asking the "why" regarding our approach taken seriously, it might be sensible to wait and see what that approach is first.


The fault does not lie with us for judging the scant details, the fault lies with Bioware for releasing only scant details. Of course the fans are going to react to details about the game, especially when they specifically suggest a drastic departure from the original game, which they loved.We are responding to what wea are shown. If the picture is incomplete, that is the fault of those releasing incomplete information.

Since Dragon Age was billed as "The Spiritual Successor to Baldur's Gate" (can we all count the 10,000 times we heard that phrase?) and it is being moved in a direction away from Baldur's Gate, why should we, the fans who purchased this game specifically for this reason, not be grossly disappointed with what we have learned about DA2 so far?

Yes, ME and DA2 are different games, but the similarities that we dislike between Mass Effect and Dragon Age are the similarities that we already know exist.  This is not information we are inferring, nor is it information that you have implied, this is information that Bioware has confirmed.  The problem is that Dragon Age was meant to take us back to old-school rpg's, not emulate modern rpgs.

Baldur's Gate 2 did not drastically deviate from Baldur's Gate, it merely improved on it. More options, better writing, a stronger plot. Yes, the storytelling grew exponentially from BG1 to BG2 but so did the customization. No race, name, character class, etc. was forced upon the player by the sequel. Expanding one element of the game does not mean that you must necessarily shrink the other.

The single most unique element of Dragon Age was the Origin stories. It immersed you into the character in a way that very very few RPG's have ever come close to realizing. Of course we're going to be disappointed when that is not only not expanded upon, but completely eliminated.  I'm sure anyone could forgive the lack of customization if they were playing as their original character,  it would even be understandable.  As that is obviously not the case, we are understandably upset that we have lost  both our original character and story as well as the ability to create a new character and story.  Instead, we are shackled to Bioware's  character "Hawke", whether we like it or not.

Yes, we are only reacting to some information about the game, not the game as a whole, but that is wholly irrelevant. The bits of info we have are  what we do not like. If there is an extensive amount of character customization, then we aren't being told about it, and we aren't seeing it. You absolutely cannot fault us for reacting negatively to the information you have given us. It paints a specific picture that has yet to be empirically refuted.

We want to customize our character. It is really that simple.

Modifié par 17thknight, 12 juillet 2010 - 04:14 .


#46
Dolcrist

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But he can fault us for wildly speculating to fill all the gaps in that scant information. Mass hysteria is usually silly -- fun, but silly. Use whatever rhetoric you like ("shackled" was a nice touch) but the customization is still there, diminished only slightly. If the story they wish to tell centers around a human, I can accept that -- so long as the story's worth the telling.

#47
17thknight

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Dolcrist wrote...
 but the customization is still there, diminished only slightly.


It is not diminshed slightly, it is diminshed significantly. That isn't based on "hysteria". That is based solely on what Bioware and Chris have confirmed for us.

The customization is drastically reduced from many RPG's, but in comparison to Origins it is practically nonexistant. It is not "rhetoric" to say you are shackled ot Hawke, because you are. Just as Commander Shepard is forced upon the player, so too is Hawke forced upon the player.

Customization should never move backwards, only forwards, and this was one of the elements of Mass Effect 2 that people truly disliked, even fans of the game such as myself. You will never be applauded for stripping down a game's customizability, particularly when that was the original selling point of Dragon Age.

#48
Deviija

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Controversy breeds buzz and press. Sometimes releasing scant/vague details is done with that very purpose in mind..

#49
Arttis

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Disliking Bioware employees now.

#50
SirOccam

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17thknight wrote...

Dolcrist wrote...
 but the customization is still there, diminished only slightly.


It is not diminshed slightly, it is diminshed significantly. That isn't based on "hysteria". That is based solely on what Bioware and Chris have confirmed for us.

How so? You have one fewer choice: race.