1230 réponses à ce sujet

[christrek1982]

David Gaider wrote...

I would suggest that you wait to hear exactly what our approach is before trying to figure out whether it's what you're interested in or not.

People appear to be acting as if the scant details we've revealed are all they'll ever learn about the game ever, and they're thus required to render judgment immediately.

You're really not. You might, in fact, want to see exactly how we're implementing these features you dislike and seeing for yourself whether they differ from, say, Mass Effect's. There are similarities, of course, but there are also differences... and to assume you know everything about how the game is going to feel based off the most cursory of information is just going to make you look foolish.

Perhaps in the end DA2 won't be for you after all. That's fair. You should be able to judge prior to actually playing it-- there will be information galore available prior to its release, I'm sure. But if you want to have questions asking the "why" regarding our approach taken seriously, it might be sensible to wait and see what that approach is first.

2 true some thing that have been seid have made me go oh ok then and other have made me feel excited but non of it has made me feel  like you are going in wrong direcsion only that the game is evolveing but i'd love to know more about companions hope thers more elves and elf realated subjects in this perhaps a romance between PC and a fem elf as we have alredy had a male elf also will ther still be same sex stuff as i felt this was a very brave move on your part.

[joriandrake]

LPPrince wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Both were always hybrids rather than pure RPGs or pure shooters, but ME1 had the balance better. ME2 weighted far too much on the shooter side and cut out or down far too many RPG elements. They took stats away from items, reduced the items entirely and made them completely linear and basically a shooter-based weapon system, they removed armour classes, they removed armour actually acting like armour, they removed omni-tools and biotic amps, they removed weapon and armour modding and replaced it with a linear upgrade system with no penalties or trade-offs meaning every character can easily upgrade everything without having to pick and choose (essentially allowing players to have their cake and eat it too), they cut the class skills in half (making less possible builds for each class), removed skill determining weapon capability, removed pretty much all non-combat skills, removed hacking, electonics and decryption skills determining ability to unlock or decrypt things, removed first aid, cut the persuasion skills into one and merged it with a combat skill, made XP completely meaningless by giving a set amount after every mission no matter how the mission is done (how do we know the XP is even real and not just an arbritrary number now?), removed different ways of completing a mission beyond Paragon/Renegade dialogue at the end, made most of the levels a linear line from A to B, took away planet exploration entirely, etc.

Save this post somewhere. Save it. Seriously.

we just have to quote it very often, very

[christrek1982]

christrek1982 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I would suggest that you wait to hear exactly what our approach is before trying to figure out whether it's what you're interested in or not.

People appear to be acting as if the scant details we've revealed are all they'll ever learn about the game ever, and they're thus required to render judgment immediately.

You're really not. You might, in fact, want to see exactly how we're implementing these features you dislike and seeing for yourself whether they differ from, say, Mass Effect's. There are similarities, of course, but there are also differences... and to assume you know everything about how the game is going to feel based off the most cursory of information is just going to make you look foolish.

Perhaps in the end DA2 won't be for you after all. That's fair. You should be able to judge prior to actually playing it-- there will be information galore available prior to its release, I'm sure. But if you want to have questions asking the "why" regarding our approach taken seriously, it might be sensible to wait and see what that approach is first.

2 true some thing that have been seid have made me go oh ok then and other have made me feel excited but non of it has made me feel  like you are going in wrong direcsion only that the game is evolveing but i'd love to know more about companions hope thers more elves and elf realated subjects in this perhaps a romance between PC and a fem elf as we have alredy had a male elf also will ther still be same sex stuff as i felt this was a very brave move on your part.

PS love your books they wher grate realy made me feel for marec and it was so sad that it took me buy suprise especily stolen throne

[naumutroi]

The basic gameplay of DA: Origins is ok and works fine. I like the current combat/spell wheel ala KOTOR but there is always room for improvement.

For DA2 or future installemnts I would love to see a night and day cycle, load distance for more detailed open-world environment from greater distances. The same internal vegetation technology used in Far Cry 2.

Rendering improvements, improved lighting, reflection and more special and enviroment effects. A cloth system used extensively for characters so that clothing looks and reacts like clothing.

A economic system allows players not just to to purchase accessories, armor and weapons through the course of the game but including a place to call your player's home and buy other homes and rent them or kick the tenants out like in Fable.

The ability to  teach Dog tricks other than attacks and Dog should not be a companion but a extension of the player like in Fable.

The player should  have the ability to swim, jump, climb, row a boat, as well as ride horses and fight while riding that horse at any point in the game where they are readily available.

The combat system should give the player the ability to disarm opponents using counter attacks while unarmed. If the player disarms an enemy's weapon, it is possible to follow up with an attack that instantly kills.

Players should be able to purchase artwork and furniture for their house or castle or tavern, etc, in addition to obtaining new armour and stuff as the game progresses and even dye the player's clothing or hair with a number of different colours. The player should be able to go a barber in the city and get a new hair style or tattoos or to remove them.

The npc's should not be just standing around like statues but are doing things as if they are living and breathing in that world and maybe a occasional rabbit, chicken, bird or insect going around and reacting to the player.

And if the player is in a city, make it a huge massive city like the ones in Assassins Creed .

I think there should be music that is scene sensitive like KOTOR.

Also NPC reactions to the player, like the reactions of the companions, should alter with the choices and actions made by the player. If the player is a ass the npcs will react appropietly and make the appropiate remarrks and actions.

.A lot has been said about the detail of the characters and the colours / enviroment textures of the current DA. The latest DLC Leliana's Song appears to have a little better graphics rendering look than the main game on my PS3.

Regardless of character class the character should be able to open lock chests. A way Bioware can do this is make it like KOTOR and just make a percentile roll on the  warrior character who is not a trained Rogue or there is a chance there will damage to the goods inside.  And for the mage character they could use lightnig or fireball or something to try and open a chest. allow more doors to be basahed open depending on like in D&D the strength of the character and the quality of the weapon.

I do like the fire effects. The look of the spells are good. Except at the end of the game where dog just stands there and ignores you at the coronation the ai and rendering for dog is excellent as well as dog's voice. The animals are rendered well when we see them. The structures are also rendered well.  Basically the graphics for non-living things and enviroments are done well.  But in the old textures of the Darkspawn they looked like the Orcs and Goblins from The Hobbit / Lord of the Rings  but with the latest screenshots from DA2 they look more like the zombies from Resident Evil so i am not sure where they wanted to go with the look.  The colours that are rendered by the current engine is not bad, on my HD TV  the colours looked even better after some adjusting in the options and on my  TV.  Even on my little TV ( and that one is not HD) the colours are not too bad...i would not call it muddy but it does not hit you like say technocolour.  Most of the time the graphics look as good  as Mas Effect or other Bioware titles except not as bright unless you play with the options and the tv / monitor settings. The costume designs and the detail of those designs for the clothing seem a little repetitive and looked like i have seen them before in other BioWare titles and some faces as well. In Leliana's Song Anora's head was on the body of the Chantry Bard and was quite a surprise.  Speaking of NPC's Fable and Assassins Creed give good examples of a living breathing medievel city where the NPC's are not just standing or sitting around waiting to be interacted with but act like they are doing something.  NPC reactions to the player's Hero in both those titles is also a good example for BioWare to shoot for as well for it lends immersion and enhances the story. Every aspect of the game from graphics to sounds, music and so and so forth should at its core contribute to the story and move it forward.

Modifié par naumutroi, 17 juillet 2010 - 11:19 .

[naumutroi]

David Gaider wrote...

I would suggest that you wait to hear exactly what our approach is before trying to figure out whether it's what you're interested in or not.

People appear to be acting as if the scant details we've revealed are all they'll ever learn about the game ever, and they're thus required to render judgment immediately.

You're really not. You might, in fact, want to see exactly how we're implementing these features you dislike and seeing for yourself whether they differ from, say, Mass Effect's. There are similarities, of course, but there are also differences... and to assume you know everything about how the game is going to feel based off the most cursory of information is just going to make you look foolish.

Perhaps in the end DA2 won't be for you after all. That's fair. You should be able to judge prior to actually playing it-- there will be information galore available prior to its release, I'm sure. But if you want to have questions asking the "why" regarding our approach taken seriously, it might be sensible to wait and see what that approach is first..

Preaching to the choir that "Perhaps in the end DA2 won't be for you after all"   or this one,  "  if you want to have questions asking the "why" regarding our approach taken seriously, it might be sensible to wait and see what that approach is first..."  That  is not good business strategy. Its like saying we dont care if you like it or not .... buy it or not....someone else will. Gambling on the someone else is a risk nowadays. When selling something you need the core audience...at least most of them ... to be on board and be enthusiastic.  You want to squeeze the cash cow for all the milk it has while you can. Now if you got that cow scared and it wont produce the milk ergo no money...no profits...as in your out of business.  You want the core audience and yea you want to expand that audience with this new idea but it is the core ...the fans who are the bread and butter. So thus they need to do a better selling job of the new direction and convince us....just sayiing. Doing that will  help pre-order sales along.  The trailer video next month might help but as we saw with DA: Origins in the Urn of Sacred Ashes trailer the game and the trailer dont exactly match. A playable demo will help  sell the product IF they release one.  But all is speculation until we get closer to march 2011 or so.

Modifié par naumutroi, 17 juillet 2010 - 07:42 .

[Jimmy Fury]

naumutroi wrote...
Know O' Prince.......of all the different types of sequels, which one will DA2 will be???   I know that the Almighty Gods of BioWare  will do as they will regardless much  like the Cimmerian God, Crom ...and... I know that i am not alone in wanting  DA2  to be a standard easy-peasy style  of sequel with the further adventures of our beloved intrepid Hero as he or she ... wild-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, possessing the skills of perhaps a  thief, a warrior, or a mage, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth,  treads the jeweled thrones of  Thedas under his or her Wade's Superior Dragonbone-plated boot. slaying the remnants of the Darkspawn hordes and rising to power to become a King...or maybe a Emperor by his or her own hand. .....but that....is another story.

Know also... O'   Prince...that based upon the current released intel, DA2  it seems is leaning to the stand-alone sequel  and  or the SideQuel or perhaps ....... . hehehe....  I am sure that assessment will change as more intel is released.  Time will tell, and until March 2011 everything is still  just speculation and dust in the wind since it is still in development. 

I see you skipped over my reply where i pointed out that by your own definition DA2 is indeed a proper sequel.
It picks up dangling plot threads: Flemeth is a confirmed character. Possibly Morrigan as has been hinted by Gaider.
Directly follows the events of Origins. Albeit with an allegedly small portion occuring alongside origins, but even that directly follows an event from origins.
Introduces a new conflict to drive the second story.

Nowhere in your definition of sequel does it say anything about having to follow he same protagonist.

[naumutroi]

Seriously...ALL joking asied...yea.....by my definiotions of the word "sequel" DA2 is indeed a proper sequel but saying it isnt so when knowing it is so is good foder for discussion and debate. The DA: Origins sequel is probably not the one that most people expected. I for one truly wanted to have my Hero further hiis adventures and perhaps like Hawke rise to power. The standard sequel "normaly" does follow the same antogonist but it is not bound by it such as The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings or The Illiad and The Odyssey.. In the Hobbit the main Hero is Bilbo and in The Lord of the Rings it is Frodo but Bilbo is also in it to make the connections between the two at the beginning, middle and end of The Lord of the Rings. The jury is still out as to whether our favorite Grey Warden will make a appearance in DA2 or is even mentioned. BioWare could concievably pick up quite a few storylines from any of the people that the Warden made a difference in their life other than the kid from Lothering such as the elf family in Lothering. or the brother and sister The Warden helped in Redcliffe or the blacksmith's daughter and then there is Connor and even Jawon.

Then there are the possible Wardens from Orgins that the player did not pick as thier Hero since not all of them are acounted for I believe. We find out the dwarf commonor died in jarvia's jail, we find the city elf was in Howe's prison who we set free. I did not find the whereabouts yet of the human and elven mages, the dwarf prince or the dalish elf. Although it aluded in the Warden's Keep DLC that one of the Wardens experimented upon and killed by the mage Avenus was a dwarf. A spin-off also known as a SideQuel could be made from the further adventures of any of the companions or as a Prequel-Sidequel-Re-Imagining as in the case of Leliana's Song. The Ring in the Hobbit was a conflict that was not fully realized in The Hobbit until Lord of the Rings when its true origins were discovered and as we find out it was a source of conflict more or less for many many years from its creation by Sauron to its destruction in Mount Doom more than three thoussand years later. And...who is to say that the Blights MUST be every thousand years or so. The last Blight came as a surprise and the Darkspawn horde lingering under the Archetect was also another surprise and there may yet be another surprise in DA2 and DA3 about the Darkspawn. And who is to say that our Hero or even Hawke or another Hero does not try to take out the last of the High Dragons in order to prevent further Blights or other smart Darkspawn like the Archetect from seeking to purge Thedas of all Grey Wardens so that they will not interfere with the next Blight. then there is the usual political wrangling such as the impending invasion by the Qunari or the Tavinter Empire.

Just a thought.....a plot point is Alister. not sure about everyone else but Alister in DA: Awakenings was a little smug to my Warden...jealous probably or still upset I made him take the crown and or marry  Anora. But in any event...if Alister is exiled and become The Exile there is a story ofr that I hope. It would certainly harden Alister and more resentful. The Warden gets all the attention and the people of the Kingdom think whether Anora is sole ruler or Alister that the Warden is the true power behind the throne.  A plot point that can be created is jealousy by Alister since everyone from the companions to the people to the Queen to even Alister's uncle defer to the Warden...and even Duncan prefered the Warden to be by his side during the meeting with the King for battle strategy. A jelous Alister would make for  a good story with conflict and drama  especially since the steward of Amaranthine refers to the Warden as the ruler of  Amaranthine.  Also  a exiled Alister option would harden Alister and he would be penniless and..a hungry drunk as it says in the epilogue where the Hero chose to spare the life of Anora's father. Could he have taken the new name of "Hawke" and rose to power in the Free Marches??? Maybe...maybe not...most likely not but that would make for a possible story.

Just a thought....hmmmmm....The words said of the spirits in the Gauntlet could also be a possible source for a story comprising.. a Song (tune), Hunger, Mercy, Vengence, Mountains,  Dreams, Home. Hmmm....not sure about the tune but Hawke starts off in the Free Marches as penniless and possibly hungry. Acording to the map the southern part of the Free Marches is dominated by mountains. The Free Marches is hawke's new home after the destruction of his old home in Lothering.  Rising to power by any means neccesary sounds like it  could be driven by vengence depending on the story.....hmmmm.......But that......is another story.

Modifié par naumutroi, 17 juillet 2010 - 06:19 .

[AlanC9]

naumutroi wrote...

Seriously...ALL joking asied...yea.....by my definiotions of the word "sequel" DA2 is indeed a proper sequel but saying it isnt so when knowing it is so is good foder for discussion and debate.

Funny... I never thought an obvious lie is a good way to start anything.

[TheDarkHuntress]

One thing puzzles me though, I have never understood why developers who had a real winner on their hands would change it when they do the sequel.

I don't understand, I just don't understand.

[naumutroi]

AlanC9 wrote...

Funny... I never thought an obvious lie is a good way to start anything.

A lie..no. just poorly executed rhetoric  and well....rhetoric is difficult to express sometimes since the original post was a rhetorical question / statement with some jest and not exactly a serious question.. Do they know what a sequel means of course they do, ...do we know what that words sequel means..some of us do definately.

That brings us to the question of "why developers who had a real winner on their hands would change it when they do the sequel"  begs the question "do they know what a sequel is?"   Of  course they do and it will fit somewhere in the definitions i posted.  And as to the why.....who knows whats floats their boat. Call it creative license..call it its their product if we want to buy it or not buy it it is on us but they will put out ...hopefully...the best product whatever way they feel works for them from their perspective. It  might work or it might not for the player but since so llittle is known for sure there is more questions, rumours and innuendo than cold hard facts. So until March of 2011 everything is speculation, discussion and debate.

It also  begs the question, "is it the sequel we were expecting?"   For example as in the original Star Wars trilogy where the same Hero is prominant through the three movies and then we get a prequel trilogy that has more questions than answers. Or perhaps some like Dragon Age's basic design that is reminecent of KOTOR and other of BioWare's older titles and are happy with Dragon Age as it is except for a few  tweaks mostly in graphics.

For me It also begs another question, "why do movie studios sequel, remake or re-imaged classics that dont need to be sequeled, remade or re-imagined ??"  Look how many films and tv shows the past couple of years that are based on products that came before  with mixed results because lightning does not always strike twice in the same spot. Example...Karate Kid. Did it really need a new installment?? And look at the name and the content...could they think us ignorant by calling it karate Kid when the kid is not even using karate but is using kung Fu and no they are not the same thing.

Some stories may not need a sequel even though one is done anyways like the first Star Wars. The original Star Wars movie now known as Star Wars: Episode 4: A New Hope was a complete story that fufilled all the requirements of the Hero's Journey as talked about by Prof Campbell. The extra two films added the hero's Journey of the Father, Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader and the Journey of the Hero redeeming the Father and discovering who they are. One could also say that Dragon Age: Origins may not really njeed a sequel as well for it is a complete story just like the original Star Wars. It would be nice...with that said...to see what came before that lead up to those events and the fallout of those events. For that the novels have helped to flesh out the story in those regards.

The why a lot of times deals with money.  Sequels are attractive to creators because there is less risk involved in returning to a story with known popularity rather than developing new and untested characters and settings. Audiences are sometimes eager for more stories about popular characters or settings, making the production of sequels financially appealing.  Example...the nickel and dimeing us with the DLC's and expansions.

If the main character dies at the end of the first work as in the case of  a possible ending in Dragon Age: Origins where the Warden could die at the end, a new character like the Orlaisian Warden or perhaps a son or daughter ..which was my second choice for a sequel of DA: Origins... or a supporting character like Hawke who we never met "Possibly" until DA2 , may take up the role in the sequel. In other cases, the main character is simply brought back...which was my first choice...determined not to have died, or simply replaced by a new character like Hawke. It is their story to tell, we just buy it or not buy it.

One final "sequel" definition...The I dont know what they were thinking sequel also known as "The Franchise"  Occasionally a work is designated as a sequel to an unrelated but similar work strictly for marketing purposes to milk our wallets dry of cash. After releasing the computer game Quake, developer id Software decided to name its next game Quake II, despite the fact that the two games are completely unrelated. Quake III is also unrelated to either of the previous Quake games, although Quake 4 continues the story of Quake II. The new Karate Kid film is a example of this as well aqs The Highlander series of films.

I like my DA: Origins Hero and would have liked to further his adventures and if i must I will continue his voyages in mods on the PC version of DA: Origins. That said  I also liked Sean Connery and Pierce Brosnan over the other actors who portrayed James Bond over the years. i dont like Daniel Craig as Bond since he is boring as Bond and is very bland. i like classic Star Trek and classic Battlestar Galactica although I do like what i have seen of the new Hawaii 5-0.  i love the original KOTOR and i still play it and it is still enjoyable and the mods help alot also to continue the game and i am looking forward to KOTOR online when it comes out and I am sure it will blow Star Wars Galaxies away. That said I will miss not having a non online stand alone adventure with the new KOTOR installment.

I do not believe I  was  incoherent in my reference to "sequels". I believe i have been very detailed and perhaps more verbose than i should be.  As you will notice my posts on the subject has evolved in each "sequel" on the subjuct much in the way a sequel does.   It begins with the rhetorical question, continues with a lengthy but informational definition of each form of sequel not counting the possible sequel hybrids. and moves merrily along to statements and finally  to this final post i will do on the subject of sequels. 

As to the subject of the game itself the visuals are to me as i said in another post, as good as any of the other BioWare games. In some areas it is better and in some areaas it could use a little work.  They could tweak the engine a bit more  and maybe have better artwork / textures to work with. If they really want to kick it up a notch or two then  they should  have a graphics engine like the Anvil that is used by Ubisoft on Assassins Creed 2.

It is possible despite my initial reservations and comments i will probably end up buying DA: 2..... i wil probably not pre-order but will wait and see and get it a few months after it is released to make a proper analysis of whether it is worth the money.

The thought that provokes thought is much more valuable than the thought that is only an echo of an accepted truth. - Thomas W. Hanford

'nuff said

Modifié par naumutroi, 17 juillet 2010 - 08:57 .

[christrek1982]

Hexoduen wrote...

Don't get me wrong: Mass Effect 1 & 2 are among the greatest games I've ever played, but PLEASE don't include "the conversation wheel" from Mass Effect in Dragon Age 2. That wheel makes me feel like I'm a 5-year-old child with the very pedagogical option of choosing the left side for "investigation", the upper right side for "the good answer" and the lower right side for "the bad answer". Furthermore, I enjoy knowing what will be said instead of just looking at a single word. The conversation in Dragon Age Origins was perfect, in other words, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

I feel that in mass 1&2 the upper middle and low response
was based more on general morality but in dragon age you inhabit more of a gray
area and the only feedback you get are the reacsion of the NPC.  It will be interesting to see how the dialog
will be represented and if it is like ME with the abbreviated response choice
combined with the DA approval system then I feel that that will give the player
more freedom to react how they would normally react rather than picking the
best response to get the most approval/disapproval of the NPC in the party or
of a love interest.



And I bet you have all done that haven't you?

Modifié par christrek1982, 17 juillet 2010 - 06:53 .

[Jallard]

TheDarkHuntress wrote...

One thing puzzles me though, I have never understood why developers who had a real winner on their hands would change it when they do the sequel.

I don't understand, I just don't understand.

Its called creative license, I guess?!? Just maybe they are trying to target a different, more profitable market audience.  Or, perhaps RPG games are becoming obsolete? Still, it is anyone's guess?!?

[Grommash94]

Jallard wrote...

TheDarkHuntress wrote...

One thing puzzles me though, I have never understood why developers who had a real winner on their hands would change it when they do the sequel.

I don't understand, I just don't understand.

Its called creative license, I guess?!? Just maybe they are trying to target a different, more profitable market audience.  Or, perhaps RPG games are becoming obsolete? Still, it is anyone's guess?!?

Maybe....maybe it is just the way that games will progress. I mean, it can't be fun to always do the same sort of story, with the same sort of gameplay, and the same sort of features. Maybe RPG developers are moving to the same direction BioWare is.

[AlanC9]

naumutroi wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Funny... I never thought an obvious lie is a good way to start anything.

The thought that provokes thought is much more valuable than the thought that is only an echo of an accepted truth. - Thomas W. Hanford

Does flatly lying about what you mean by "sequel" rise to the level of an idea?

And leaving that aside, does this tactic actually work? Or does the thread just bog down with everyone jumping on you for being incoherent about "sequel"?

I didn't find any thought getting provoked on my end.

Modifié par AlanC9, 17 juillet 2010 - 06:54 .

[Jimmy Fury]

TheDarkHuntress wrote...

One thing puzzles me though, I have never understood why developers who had a real winner on their hands would change it when they do the sequel.

I don't understand, I just don't understand.

Because if something doesn't evolve it will die. Something somewhere has to change. Problems that existed have to be repaired, things people complained about have to be addressed, advancements in technology have to be accomodated for, etc. Something has to change or it'll wither and die.
You may want to play the exact same game again with a new title but not everyone does. If I want to play origins again I just play origins again. In a sequel I want something new, something fresh, something that can recapture that interest and excitement I had the first time I played Origins.

[christrek1982]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

TheDarkHuntress wrote...

One thing puzzles me though, I have never understood why developers who had a real winner on their hands would change it when they do the sequel.

I don't understand, I just don't understand.

Because if something doesn't evolve it will die. Something somewhere has to change. Problems that existed have to be repaired, things people complained about have to be addressed, advancements in technology have to be accomodated for, etc. Something has to change or it'll wither and die.
You may want to play the exact same game again with a new title but not everyone does. If I want to play origins again I just play origins again. In a sequel I want something new, something fresh, something that can recapture that interest and excitement I had the first time I played Origins.

bravo mate

[Sylvius the Mad]

TheMadCat wrote...

So I take it if Dragon Age was given a graphics overhaul and was put at the level of say, The Witcher or Mass Effect you both would be up in arms rioting seeing as BioWare wasted resources.

I actually don't think Mass Effect had better graphics than DAO.  The environments generally had a lower polygon count, for example.

I can't speak to The Witcher because I found the game unplayable, so I have very little experience with it. 

[Deviija]

Sylvius the Mad wrote..
I actually don't think Mass Effect had better graphics than DAO.  The environments generally had a lower polygon count, for example.

The facial textures were much higher and defined.  I really do not think Mass Effect had better graphics than DAO whatsoever. IMO, it is just a memory people have ingrained in their minds from the time it first came out and seemed impressive.

[TheMadCat]

Lighting was a bit better, some textures were of higher quality while others were on par, animations were much were much better, character models were a much higher quality. I don't know I found Mass Effect better visually across the board then Origins, shame the game itself couldn't match Origins.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 17 juillet 2010 - 08:30 .

[the_one_54321]

I liked the models and character animations much better. I didn't see much in the way of improvement anywhere else.

[Mordaedil]

Deviija wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote..
I actually don't think Mass Effect had better graphics than DAO.  The environments generally had a lower polygon count, for example.

The facial textures were much higher and defined.  I really do not think Mass Effect had better graphics than DAO whatsoever. IMO, it is just a memory people have ingrained in their minds from the time it first came out and seemed impressive.

I think graphics these days have a lot more to do with artistic measurements than technological assessment, though then it comes more down to artistic style and giving "scores" to an visual like you'd give a statement to a painting.

Technological wise, there's not much left there. You can only do so much with polygons and until game studios are starting to use parallell mapping, it's going to look the same with all the art assets. Unless the art designer is not doing a good job of making models or not using shaders properly. Then it becomes a technological thing again.

It's weird to me, that all people also seem to measure visuals up to, is how realistic they look. It's part of the reason I hate visual competitiveness and why I think Kirby's Epic Yarn winning the "best graphics" award of E3 2010 (from GameTrailers) is hilarious.

[SoulRebel_1979]

 If Dragon Age: Origins was really that successful, I don't see why Bioware would change such a winning formula.


http://www.rockpaper...hiest-hit-ever/

Modifié par SoulRebel_1979, 17 juillet 2010 - 10:46 .

[twincast]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

TheDarkHuntress wrote...

One thing puzzles me though, I have never understood why developers who had a real winner on their hands would change it when they do the sequel.

I don't understand, I just don't understand.

Because if something doesn't evolve it will die. Something somewhere has to change. Problems that existed have to be repaired, things people complained about have to be addressed, advancements in technology have to be accomodated for, etc. Something has to change or it'll wither and die.
You may want to play the exact same game again with a new title but not everyone does. If I want to play origins again I just play origins again. In a sequel I want something new, something fresh, something that can recapture that interest and excitement I had the first time I played Origins.

I'm sure the C&C4 team loves you bonkers. Admittedly an extreme example in every way and I've got a generally positive outlook re: DA2, but change just for the sake of change is just as deadly as a creative standstill, the difference being that the former can kill a franchise immediately, while with the latter you at least get forewarned through gradually dropping (yet still profitable) sales. I agree that a sequel does well to have tweaked mechanics, but a complete reboot is something best left for spin-offs. That said, other than Hawke himself (or herself) and possibly combat on the console versions, I don't see any really radical changes yet, so all that doom-saying is kind of getting on my nerves as it tends to drag me in.

[In Exile]

The question is why DA:O was so succesful. For example, if pre-testing shows audiences loved isometric combat but said, man, VO would make it better, that means isometric combat is in and VO is in. As a hypothesis.



Look at it another way: if you are sure that it is the exclusive set of features that DA:O had that made it super succesful, and going away from them will make them less so, then DA2 will be nothing more than a failed experiment and DA3 will get you the copy you wanted.

[CarlSpackler]

In Exile wrote...

The question is why DA:O was so succesful. For example, if pre-testing shows audiences loved isometric combat but said, man, VO would make it better, that means isometric combat is in and VO is in. As a hypothesis.

Look at it another way: if you are sure that it is the exclusive set of features that DA:O had that made it super succesful, and going away from them will make them less so, then DA2 will be nothing more than a failed experiment and DA3 will get you the copy you wanted.

As to your first point, it is a valid hypothesis but it would interesting to see the sample of pre-test audience in that particular example.

To your second, I think one of the fears for many of us is how fickle and unforgiving the AAA game industry is.  If DA2 were truly to fail, I would be surprised if a DA3 ever surfaced.  Given how well DAO sold though I think this an unlikely scenario, more than likely DA2 will sell better than DAO and EA/Bioware/whomever will take it as a sign that the changes were for the better.  Which would be a non-sequitur. Perhaps those changes were the cause for higher sales, or perhaps it was just trading on a successful brand and slick marketing campaign.  A lot of different circumstances can drive sales.