1230 réponses à ce sujet

[joriandrake]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

Khavos wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...

I would prefer:
real time twitch action combat
do not remove, simplify, or condense any of the RPG elements, and if possible expand more on them (inventory, class customization)

You know those two are mutually exclusive, right? 

what's so hard about an inventory + action oriented combat?

Fall Out 3's system was amazing

except that many (including me) don't consider it a real sequel, simply because it was waaaay too different from Fallout 1 and 2, the "rape" of action points system was just too much on its own

[naumutroi]

wikkedjoker wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

UltraBoy360 wrote...

If that's the case - were you furious when Star Trek TMP and all subsequent TV shows upgraded the look of the Klingons?

That's a bit different, because the original klingons came from a lack of budget and make-up expertise at the time. And, yes, Enterprise's take on that was awful, but then Enterprise was horrible and constantly ruining Star Trek throughout. Worf's little comments in DS9's "Trials and Tribbleations" brought a smile to my face though and I thought it should have been left at that.

In either case, DAO's original art design certainly didn't suffer budget and technology constraints. Part of DAO's appeal was its look and feel and that seems to have gone out the window now entirely. As I said before, I'm glad I hadn't invested in the IP as a fan as much as I had Mass Effect, because otherwise I'd be selling a lot of stuff and feeling even more put out. Mass Effect is probably even more visually defined by its artistic style than DAO is after all. Both I feel are games that were just as defined by their artistic nature as they were by their lore and setting. If the ME people suddenly said, "Y'know... from now on all asari are going to have long green hair instead of head fronds and all salarians are going to have hammerhead shark eyes" would that seem right to you? It's the same thing here as far as I'm concerned. DAO's visual style, to me, is part of what defines it. And now that's just thrown out the window for a completely new approach.

And when a new art director comes along to work on an IP he should adapt to fit the universe and setting, not the other way around. Otherwise we end up with Michael Bay's Transformers all over again and the whole thing becomes completely foreign. I don't care if BioWare agreed to let him rejig the look of DAO, as a fan I say that was a bad move. Or should I say "as a former fan" I say that's a bad move?"

Oh but if I'm right,and the story is being told to us by this Varric
guy, than the art changing would sort of fit.Because we are seeing it though his eyes, and its  being changed based on memory, and exaggeration.

yes, the Klingons in the tv show were supposed to be the asame klingons in the movies and subsequent tv shows. for 40 years the reasons were not officially canonized until it  was told  on Star Trek: Enterprise why the bumpy head Klingons came to be and there were smooth head Klingons in the original series. The late Gene Roddenberry, the creator of Star Trek said in several interviews that he had always intened that the Klingon look  to be as they are known to be today, bumpy headed Mongols. And that it was a lack of funding and perhaps technology that they had to have the Klingons look like they do.  Q'Pla

[joriandrake]

yes at that time masks like those of klingons atm would have suffocated the actors

[naumutroi]

Even though DA:O took longer to make than ME2 it is overall a better game than ME2 . Sure one can say that DA:O has some graphics problems but those problems are really not that bad compared to the other BioWare titles and is correctable with a new game engiine. The game engine just needs to be replaced and not just upgraded . These game engine just simply ROCK and DA2 would look sweeet on any one of these.



Option 1: RAGE used by Rockstar. RAGE's strengths are many. Its ability to handle large streaming worlds, complex A.I. arrangements, weather effects, fast network code and a multitude of gameplay styles is obvious to anyone who has played GTA IV. It's also incredibly welcoming of partner middleware. Euphoria from NaturalMotion, a dynamic animation engine, bonded with RAGE like they'd been split at birth as did the Bullet physics engine from Erwin Coumans. And it is still so young: accurate physics, ecosystem A.I. and improved draw distance are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the RAGE engine. Its full potential has not even been harnesed yet.



OPTION 2: CryENGINE 3 as seen on Far Cry. CryENGINE 3 is the first Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, MMO, DX9 and DX10 all-in-one game development solution that is next-gen ready – with scalable computation and graphics technologies. And unlike many of its competitors, this engine does not need additional support from niche third-party middleware and can handle its own physics, sound and animations, as well as produce the outstanding visuals for which Crytek's games are famed. If Crytek's own games weren't reason enough to include the CryENGINE on this list, then the fact that the developer is doing all it can to push CryENGINE 3 as a middleware solution for other developers is great news for gamers, and a big threat to Epic Games and Unreal Engine 3. CryENGINE 3 is like RAGE's bigger, meaner cousin who is a US Navy SEAL. In other words it kicks serious buttocks.



OPTION 3: Naughty Dog Game Engine as seen in Drake's Fortune Series. shows just how much potential there is in the PlayStation 3 when the game engine is done right. The Naughty Dog engine – named after the developer behind not only Uncharted, but also the Jak & Daxter series – was developed specifically for the PS3 and provided some spectacular results. The Naughty Dog 2.0 has crisp environments filled with countless dynamic objects with independent physics, smoother and more diverse environment-animation interaction, astounding improvements to lighting and A.I., seamless transitions between engine-driven cinematics and gameplay, as well as full support for co-op and competitive multiplayer. Nothing short of a beast!

[naumutroi]

Confirmed characters in DA2 other than Hawke is his sister bethany who is a mage. Flemeth is also confirmed to be in it as a younger and perhaps more powerful witch than the last time we see her. varric the Dwarf who has been said for now to be the narrator and will tell us how hawke escaped Lothering. Another confirmed character is Casandra who believes that understanding Hawke's actions could be the key to preventing a war that threatens to engulf Thedas. Bioware says the story takes place after the events of DA: O but in game informer it is said half the game deals with blight so the chronology is not certain as of yet. I am thinking that i am not sure if The Warden ever met hawke in DA:O and if the Warden did it will need to be explained.

[Andaius20]

How can Flemeth be "younger" when this is happening at the same time as the warden story? I thought Hawke was a survivor of the Lothering destruction.

[odiedragon]

Stanley Woo wrote...
Mass Effect 2 is one of BioWare's (and EA's) great successes.

And there, my friends, is the heart of the matter.  "You done good there, Bioware, now crank out more JUST LIKE THAT so we can please our shareholders."

[Jimmy Fury]

naumutroi wrote...
but in game informer it is said half the game deals with blight so the chronology is not certain as of yet.

Doesn't say that anywhere in the Game Informer article. The closest it says is "Dragon Age II begins as the events of Origins are still taking place, so you may see some familiar events from a different angle."
It doesn't say during what events of Origins and it doesn't say "half the game".
If anything, another screencap caption would infer that the majority of the game takes place after the events of origins:
"Darkspawn are still a threat in Dragon Age II, but they are less dangerous without an archdemon to lead them."

[CarlSpackler]

Andaius20 wrote...

How can Flemeth be "younger" when this is happening at the same time as the warden story? I thought Hawke was a survivor of the Lothering destruction.

We've been told by the devs that Flemeth usually assumes one of two human forms - that of a seductress or the old hag.  She played the part of the old hag for the warden in part to convince him to take Morrigan. (Too lazy to track down the thread but there's a thread title from a few days ago saying something about Flemeth being sexy.)

And Morrigan herself told the warden that Flemeth seduced men to produce her daughters, whether taking them by force, or shapeshifting into an attractive young woman, so really she can appear how she wants is kind of the net effect of that.

[Davasar]

odiedragon wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...
Mass Effect 2 is one of BioWare's (and EA's) great successes.

And there, my friends, is the heart of the matter.  "You done good there, Bioware, now crank out more JUST LIKE THAT so we can please our shareholders."

This is probably not too far off from what happened.  And while most of us understand this is still a business and that's the bottom line, what we dont appreciate is being told a bunch of politician talk when the truth of the matter should be stated bluntly.

Don't candy coat the poison please, just tell me it's hemlocke so I can get it over with.

[Haexpane]

Davasar wrote...

Don't candy coat the poison please, just tell me it's hemlocke so I can get it over with.

Yes, if it's going to be a 2 person only party, ME2 clone w/ swords, and God of War air combo nonsense combat, just go ahead and tell me.

[In Exile]

odiedragon wrote...

And there, my friends, is the heart of the matter.  "You done good there, Bioware, now crank out more JUST LIKE THAT so we can please our shareholders."

Right, but so was Dragon Age. I would get the righteous anger if DA flopped, but this game was sucessful, at least in terms of units sold. Is it not conceivable for anyone on this forum that Bioware just happens to actually think things like the dialogue wheel are objectively better? 

[CarlSpackler]

In Exile wrote...

Right, but so was Dragon Age. I would get the righteous anger if DA flopped, but this game was sucessful, at least in terms of units sold. Is it not conceivable for anyone on this forum that Bioware just happens to actually think things like the dialogue wheel are objectively better? 

I think that likely has a lot to do with the decision.  I think Bioware probably views a voiced PC and dialog wheel as evolution of dialog implementation.  I also think the success of ME on a single platform vs DAO's success the multiplatform probably plays into it some as well.  And I can't speak to everyone who prefers the DAO model over the ME model, but it just saddens me that the model I prefer is dying.  Not much I can personally do about it as the dialog wheel/voiced PC isn't a deal-breaker for me.  So I'll just have to enjoy what is there, or stop playing games altogether.

Still, evolution it may be, but things evolve towards survival, not neccessarily towards "better"

[In Exile]

CarlSpackler wrote...
 And I can't speak to everyone who prefers the DAO model over the ME model, but it just saddens me that the model I prefer is dying.  Not much I can personally do about it as the dialog wheel/voiced PC isn't a deal-breaker for me.  So I'll just have to enjoy what is there, or stop playing games altogether.

I can appreciate how it sucks to have to settle for a game that has only some of the features you like because that's the best that the market offers, but for those like my who hail VO, we had to deal with this for a very long time prior, and all we got in return was that we didn't appreciate or understand the point of RPGs and should take our business elsewhere.

Still, evolution it may be, but things evolve towards survival, not neccessarily towards "better"

Of course not. It's purely subjective. I just hate it when either side tries to make it objective.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

Right, but so was Dragon Age. I would get the righteous anger if DA flopped, but this game was sucessful, at least in terms of units sold. Is it not conceivable for anyone on this forum that Bioware just happens to actually think things like the dialogue wheel are objectively better? 

And they might.

But it would be nice if they could make some effort to accommodate those who think those features (particularly the voice) are an abomination.

The wheel is a UI element - there's no getting around that without a ton of work from BioWare (particularly QA), but the voice could conceivably be something we could just turn off without affecting anything else.

[CarlSpackler]

In Exile wrote...

Of course not. It's purely subjective. I just hate it when either side tries to make it objective.

Yeah I think thats where the rancor comes in, people mistake subjective taste/enjoyment for objective fact.  On a side note, I suppose I'm happy for the folks who love VO over the silent PC and also loved DAO.  This has got to be a dream come true I would say. 

[Time4Tiddy]

I'm going to guess that part of this came from the pages and pages and pages of forums about how much people hated that their hero sat there with a blank stare during funny, sad, or angry dialogue. When you couple the success of ME with the percentage of people who played DA and didn't like the silent hero, you probably have a pretty solid majority of the potential buyers.

Personally I think both have their charms. I enjoyed the flexibility and RP aspects of DAO style conversation, but I also liked the unpredictability of the ME wheel, especially when you got some unexpectedly humorous lines.

[CarlSpackler]

Time4Tiddy wrote...

but I also liked the unpredictability of the ME wheel, especially when you got some unexpectedly humorous lines.

Heh, this is one of the very things those of us who prefer the DAO model are afraid of.

[Sylvius the Mad]

CarlSpackler wrote...

Heh, this is one of the very things those of us who prefer the DAO model are afraid of.

Yes.  The unpredictability to the wheel-voice connection in ME was, for me, a massive barrier to me enjoying the game.

If you take out the wheel, the voice bothers me less.  And if you take out the voice, the wheel doesn't bother me at all.

[Clovis-]

So there was no point in actual dialog after all...



Oh well, doesn't hurt to try.

[Addai]

Time4Tiddy wrote...

I'm going to guess that part of this came from the pages and pages and pages of forums about how much people hated that their hero sat there with a blank stare during funny, sad, or angry dialogue. When you couple the success of ME with the percentage of people who played DA and didn't like the silent hero, you probably have a pretty solid majority of the potential buyers.
 

Pages and pages?  Must have been before DAO release.  I've been on the forums since then and only recall the occasional lone commenter.  More often it was people complaining about how annoying certain lines were in the voice sets.

[Time4Tiddy]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

CarlSpackler wrote...

Heh, this is one of the very things those of us who prefer the DAO model are afraid of.

Yes.  The unpredictability to the wheel-voice connection in ME was, for me, a massive barrier to me enjoying the game.

If you take out the wheel, the voice bothers me less.  And if you take out the voice, the wheel doesn't bother me at all.

I can respect that opinion.  Knowing exactly what you are going to say is certainly more immersive.  I always had to laugh when my femShep would punch people out or swear at them when I just wanted her to be stern, but it didn't really break the game for me. 
On the other hand, I hated the voice of manShep, and that is my biggest concern with DA2.  I don't mind a voiced game, or the wheel, so much as the chance that male Hawke will be a cookie cutter gravelly Clint Eastwood type, and I will hate hearing that on my mage or rogue.

[CybAnt1]

I'm going to guess that part of this came from the pages and pages and pages of forums about how much people hated that their hero sat there with a blank stare during funny, sad, or angry dialogue.

Dunno ... there seems to be people bothered by the fact that they might have to hear a line they just read ... personally I would enjoy it because after reading it I might enjoy hearing how a voiced PC would deliver it with whatever particular flair or affectation .... but anyway. 

Unvoiced PC does not have to remain expressionless. There's no earthly reason why after selecting the line,

"Alistair! You are a douchebag who annoys the living crap out of me!" 

Even if I don't hear the line I've just selected from unvoiced-protagonist, my Warden couldn't suddenly adopt an expression of anger and make an angry gesture in his direction. So even if I don't hear it, I could at least "see" him "act" it out. 

My point is, yes, I don't enjoy the often blank expression-less Warden, but an unvoiced Warden doesn't have to lack facial, kinetic, and other emotional expressions. 

And frankly, it was far more odd how he lacked expressions in cutscenes, particularly how he didn't even crack a smile when Morrigan came to bed him one last time.... 

[Time4Tiddy]

Addai67 wrote...

Time4Tiddy wrote...

I'm going to guess that part of this came from the pages and pages and pages of forums about how much people hated that their hero sat there with a blank stare during funny, sad, or angry dialogue. When you couple the success of ME with the percentage of people who played DA and didn't like the silent hero, you probably have a pretty solid majority of the potential buyers.
 

Pages and pages?  Must have been before DAO release.  I've been on the forums since then and only recall the occasional lone commenter.  More often it was people complaining about how annoying certain lines were in the voice sets.

It's certainly possible that my memory is inflating the frequency, but I recall threads about how this was a "throwback" to KOTOR and other old school games, and people found the silent stoic hero to be disengaging - especially in the first couple months after release.  It's only been since they announced DA2 to be fully voiced that it's swung so far the other way.
IMO, people got used to a voiced protagonist from other recent games, and so when DAO came out, they were unhappy.  After playing (and loving) DAO, they've realized the upsides of a silent hero, and so now when a new direction is announced, it once again sets people off.
With that in mind, it's likely that most people will quickly get used to a voiced Hawke and end up being just as happy with the game in the long run as they would have been if he/she was silent.

[Time4Tiddy]

CybAnt1 wrote...

I'm going to guess that part of this came from the pages and pages and pages of forums about how much people hated that their hero sat there with a blank stare during funny, sad, or angry dialogue.

And frankly, it was far more odd how he lacked expressions in cutscenes, particularly how he didn't even crack a smile when Morrigan came to bed him one last time.... 

It did seem a bit random - there were times (for example when Zevran springs his trap) where the protagonist looks shocked or scared and had some action.  I think encountering Broodmother got a stunned look from the hero, too.  Just a couple of places, and totally random.  And certainly during character creation, when you click on the different voice sets, your face would emote.  Not sure why they didn't implement that more fully.