1230 réponses à ce sujet

[Davasar]

AlanC9 wrote...

Actually, I was talking about people operating from different premises without acknowledging the fact.

As for your post, Davasar, there's nothing wrong with ignoring a salient point when some other part of the argument fails. Sure, one could post "you're right about X, but since the inference you drew from X is completely bogus, it doesn't matter that you were right about X" --- but would such a sentence be worth typing, or reading?

And if someone feels his point is being deliberately distorted -- more often, he wasn't clear about his point in the first place, or he posted a grab-bag of feelings rather than coherent argument -- he should make clear what his position is and what it is not. Edit: see, for example, my first sentence of this post.

I'm sorry you didnt draw the same inference I did from the salient point.  That doesnt mean the salient point itself is wrong, it means we have a differing opinion about the inference.

You have your opinion, I have mine.  Neither is wrong.  But the salient point remains.

And the usual distortions I have seen involve cherry picking, or otherwise known as selective argumentation which is a fallacious argument.

I would prefer to see peoples entire point presented if there's going to be an attempt to shoot it down (for both sides).  At least then the whole picture is before the two people.

To do otherwise means to employ BS tactics.

[Dargus007]

Dear Bioware Guy That Never Seems to Reply to the Well
Structured Arguments (not that I'm claiming to have structure or an argument),



Despite my misgivings I gave Mass Effect 2 a chance and found that, even though
I liked it less than ME1, I still liked it.



Though, I certainly played it a lot less than its predecessor. In ME1, I had 6
characters with more than two playthroughs each, with my "main"
having 10 playthroughs completed. In comparison, ME2 has 3 complete
playthroughs (I had the technology, but I couldn't bring myself to rebuild
him). Sure, it wasn't as bad as I feared. Heck, I know I've payed full price
for worse games (I'm looking at you Two Worlds). But ... it was not nearly as
good as I'd hoped, and all I asked was that it be as good as the first.



Mass Effect, as a series, is "over" for me. Not that ME2 isn't a good
game, but because it isn't a great game. To echo the immortal words of Ruby
Rhod, "It had no fire, no energy, no nothing!" As a consequence, I'm
not terribly excited about the third installment, and I won't be in a rush to
claim a new release-day copy. Make no mistake, I will buy it. Time will see it
as a used bargin bin copy, and I'll take it home then.



I'm going through similar emotions with DA2. A part of me says "OMG,
Commander Hawke!?!?! What just.... I don't even...", but another part of
me says "You're overreacting. Trust Bioware. I'll bet, they will have an
ugly helmet that makes you immune to critical hits! Won't that be a trip down
memory lane!"



So, I'll be there at midnight, I'll call in sick for the rest of the week, I'll
be outraged by the six people who arrived before me and don't have their
pre-order recipt ready in-hand, and two hours into the game I'll forget I ever
cared that you are stuck with the same suit of minorly (highly!) customizable
pre-selected armor for the whole game (calling it here and now).



I want to believe that these touted "improvements" are improvements,
and not the result of the simple hammer of simplifying simplification that left
ME2 recognizable but bruised and battered. Here I am, hoping that DA2 is the
great sequel the fans deserve and not merely a good game that will sell to a
larger audience.



Based on what I know so far, it is a faint hope. Understand, at this point it's
easy to come to the conclusion of "Oblivion With GUNZ!" ... wait ...
wrong rant...  um... "Mass Effect with Swordz!"



...



However, reassuring me that we won't be stuck with one or two
"highly" customizable armor choices, while our companions wear the
same outfit day-in and day-out, is a small thing that will go a long way
towards assuaging my fears. *Wink Wink*  *Nug Nug*



-Dargus (KoX)



Yeah, I like to play barbie dress-up. Nerds get hung-up on weird things. I'm
also not too keen on the third-person narrative, but that's something that IS
happening. *Sacreds a sacrificing cow* See? I'm dealing with it.

Modifié par Dargus007, 03 août 2010 - 01:40 .

[AlanC9]

Davasar wrote...
I'm sorry you didnt draw the same inference I did from the salient point.  That doesnt mean the salient point itself is wrong, it means we have a differing opinion about the inference.

And ignoring X doesn't mean that I think the point was wrong; if I thought X was wrong I would certainly mention that. Ignoring X means that I don't think it was salient. If the inference drawn from X fails then X is irrelevant, and I have no reason to waste time talking about X.

And the usual distortions I have seen involve cherry picking, or otherwise known as selective argumentation which is a fallacious argument.

Feel free to call people on it when they do that. But you have to actually give a reason why it's a distortion.

I would prefer to see peoples entire point presented if there's going to be an attempt to shoot it down (for both sides).  At least then the whole picture is before the two people.

I've always just assumed that people are reading the thread anyway. And if they aren't, they certainly don't need to see a repost of something they didn't bother to read in the first place.

Modifié par AlanC9, 03 août 2010 - 04:21 .

[Teh Chozen Wun]

Dragon Age 2 and Dragon Age: Origins are obviously different.



This game is not "Dragon Age: Origins 2" it's more along the lines "Dragon Age: Chronicles of Hawke, the wizard, the rogue, and/or the wardrobe... I mean warrior."







So comparing Dragon Age 2 and Dragon Age: Origins is really just pointless. Really all they seem to share is the same Lore and events that happened in DA:O may carry over. This game is clearly not a direct sequel to DA:O by any means, it's an installment in a franchise is the best way to word it.





I'm not an active Bioware fan/forumite by no means, heck, even with that said I remember an interview saying specifically that Bioware is building Dragon Age into a franchise. Not a trilogy, not a series, not even a saga. A franchise, i.e. Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Zelda, Mario, ect, so yeah hating on DA2 just because it's not DA:O2 or even DA:O is a waste of time. It's simply another installment in a beautiful franchise. Hell, if they wanted to they could make Dragon Age: Orlais Beauty Pageant and that would still be considered part of the franchise.







So me, I'd just get use to Dragon Age as a franchise, with installments possibly slightly/immensely deterring from each other. If you want DA:O2 then wait for it. That is if they make a DA:O2, as they they nailed it with DA:O. I don't see a need for a second one unless it's a direct sequel to DA:O.



In all cases though, Bioware knows best. Fans are full of creativity but if they were to create the games then no one but them would really enjoy the game.

[MikeLloy]

 oh my only problem is with the new "look".
I can handle "hawke" if he's customizeable.

I hate what they've done to the darkspawn and if any of you guys say you like it you're lying cause you're all brown-nosers.

They looked evil and unique and awesome before and now they look like WoW ghoul zombie clones.

And ffs.  The ogre's face looks like an old lady mixed with a chimp.

[kerblagh]

Mass Dragon: Commander Hawke. Oh boy.



I want to be a dwarf or a qunari or something cool, not a faux-Shepard.