130 réponses à ce sujet

[kraidy1117]

AshiraShepard wrote...

Arttis wrote...
I notice your avatar blinking in the corner of my eye but everytime I look it looks the same.

Watch her for longer than a glance, she blinks about every four seconds

Samara

[Hulk Hsieh]

The importance of ME is that it carries on what games like Deus Ex do to the RPG genre.

We are at the time that genre blending is happening rapidly, and there will be one day that RPG will not be defined by combat mechanism, the existence of inventory, looting, exp points from every fallen enemies and so on. ME, and Bioware, will be recorded in histroy because of this.

[_-Greywolf-_]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

The importance of ME is that it carries on what games like Deus Ex do to the RPG genre.
We are at the time that genre blending is happening rapidly, and there will be one day that RPG will not be defined by combat mechanism, the existence of inventory, looting, exp points from every fallen enemies and so on. ME, and Bioware, will be recorded in histroy because of this.

Sorry but you are going to have to explain that post to me, why will Bioware be recorded in the history books? To me the RPG genre isnt defined by those things, to me the RPG genre is defined by the freedom to create and play your own character in a world where the story is defined by your actions and to me Bioware seem to be slowly taking steps away from this concept.

Bioware reached greatness once with the Baldur's Gate series however it seems their latest endeavours have fallen short of this lofty perch. I would say they are playing things too safe and in doing so they are letting opportunities for greatness slip through their fingers.

[Gaxhung]

Just started playing ME1, just landed at the Citadel, so far so good, textures are a little low res, combat is kind of ... wierd. But story is pretty cool, takes you right into the game. I like the inventory system and looting, there are stuff to loot, but you don't have to click dead bodies and then click "Loot All" 10,000 times. Dialog wheel is kinda cool, Shepard words your choices his way, there were a few times where I went, oh no I didn't quite meant to be rude, but of course Shepard is tight with his crew, so they aren't judgmental of him (lols).

So far the game is pretty chatty, a lot of the diolog options means squat, they merely phrase your intent differently. I don't see the point in some of them, I ended up going with "I have to go" after a while, without hearing every choice.

Just a thought, having something new in DA2 is great, but if it's just like ME, then wouldn't it not be new? But then again, if its just like DAO, it wouldn't be new either.

[Arttis]

Just the wheel not the choices.

[_-Greywolf-_]

Gaxhung wrote...

Just a thought, having something new in DA2 is great, but if it's just like ME, then wouldn't it not be new? But then again, if its just like DAO, it wouldn't be new either.

Thats just the thing it isnt new, but the question is which one do you prefer?

[Aroihkin]

A++ would lol again.

[StingingVelvet]

I have no idea why anyone compares the two games. One is an action game, a shooter with RPG elements, and the other is a tactical stat-based RPG. It's like asking whether I think Baseball or Doctor Who is a better TV shows... how do you compare that?



Nothing so far makes me think that will change with DA2.

[Yamo425]

That was good for a nice laugh. Trolls are a good thing sometimes.

[Gaxhung]

@ _-Greywolf-_
As far as I'm concerned, they are 2 sides of the same coin, because the outcome is predetermined. But I think I see why you don't like wheel style, because being a summary, it might just end up :-
A) Flirt
Stay professional
C) I have to go

I am exagerrating there, but it might end up being real dead like. By comparison DAO does feel more open, because the choices are laid out for us, so we can choose exactly how we want to role play and not limited to being filtered through a character's personality, such as Shepard being a marine.

[SirOccam]

I think Mass Effect and Dragon Age are apples and oranges. While you can prefer one to the other, I don't think one can objectively be called better.

I love Mass Effect because it combines the fun of a game like Halo with the great story and all-around awesomeness of an RPG. This is especially true (for me) in ME2, where the combat got massively improved (in my opinion).

I love Dragon Age because first of all, I'm a huge fan of the Fantasy genre. Secondly, because it's got an amazing storyline. Thirdly, because of the companions...again this comes down to writing but also the sheer depth of the relationships you can have with them.

Between the two, I'd say I prefer Dragon Age, but if I just wanted to sit down and relax for a half an hour, I'd load up Mass Effect 2. For Dragon Age, I want a couple of hours, so I can immerse myself in the incredible depth of its plot.

Though they are separate types of games, I think each has things the other game could learn from and adopt. For example, the reduction of inventory management and simplification of skill allocation that occurred in Mass Effect 2 was brilliant, I thought. A lot of people would call it "dumbing down." But "complex" is not necessarily "better."

How does filling packs with absurdly unrealistic amounts of junk and hauling said junk to a vendor add to a game's story or excitement? Yeah it's sort of been a hallmark of RPGs all the way back to pen and paper, but does that mean it always has to be there? Already there are things like the fact that in DA:O you buy several backpacks and are supposedly carrying them around at all times, and carrying hundreds of pounds of metal weapons and armor. Each backpack lets you carry 10 more items, but you start off with a capacity of 70...that's 7 backpacks' worth of stuff! And that's before you have other companions you can claim are sharing the load. Now I'm just playing devil's advocate here...I obviously think this is a good thing that you don't have to get bogged down in minutia like this. But by that same token, there's still a lot of minutiae we DO get bogged down in. So who's to say where the line is that you can't cross? How much simplification is too much?

Well I think ME2 had the right amount for that game. I think Dragon Age could use a lot more. Not to the extent of ME2, but definitely a lot more than it had in DAO.

The other example from ME2 was the skill allocation. Here, I think Dragon Age is just about right for that game. I also think ME2 was just about right, for that game. In ME1 it was needlessly complex. Each skill had dozens of ranks, meaning each individual upgrade was pretty insignificant, meaning there wasn't much of a sense of accomplishment. "Yay, I now have 12 ranks in Assault Rifles instead of 11!" (The exception being if you hit a level that unlocked another skill or something.) In ME2, there were fewer things to buy, but they were all proportionally more awesome. In DAO, the things you buy give you significantly new/improved abilities, and therefore gave you that sense of reward.

The last area I want to touch on is stats, numbers, percentages, dps, etc. In MMOs, these things can be important. In single-player RPGs...not so much. I realize a lot of this varies based on tastes, as the more "hardcore" types really like to push themselves and min/max and all that. That's fine, I'm not criticizing, and this is another area that can ****** off RPG "purists" because it's the heart and soul of pen and paper RPGs, but personally I think simpler is often better.

I'll give an example. Cunning. My favorite/main character is a rogue, so I trained up his ability to pick locks. And yet, even though he had the skill maxed, apparently his cunning attribute wasn't high enough for some locks deep in some dungeon. Why does that kind of thing need to be in the game? How are you even supposed to know how much cunning you need? Why can't it all be handled by the skill tree? Does having to guess at a number improve the fun of the game? I humbly suggest that no, it does not. So my choice then was to wait until I level up, spend one or all (again I have no clue how much I need, so I might waste 2-3 of the points or have to wait for ANOTHER level-up) of my attribute points on cunning, then try to remember where these chests were and travel back into the bowels of the Deep Roads or wherever it was...or just forget about it. I usually went with the second choice.

The same thing applies to other classes too. How much Magic skill do you need? Once you have enough to be able to equip that new staff, should you keep adding more? Should you start pumping willpower? None of this is interesting, just annoying! (In my opinion.) I want to get back to the story, or at least back to the action. Now those of you about to say "just play a hack & slash action game," the action is not what draws me to these games. It helps, certainly, and it's fun...way more fun than screwing around with all but meaningless numbers...but the RPG story is what it all truly boils down to. And I don't like when nitty-gritty details get in the way of the drama, the story, or, yeah...the action.

[zahra]

SirOccam wrote...

I think Mass Effect and Dragon Age are apples and oranges. While you can prefer one to the other, I don't think one can objectively be called better.

------------snipped wall of text for expediency purposes--------------------------------
The same thing applies to other classes too. How much Magic skill do you need? Once you have enough to be able to equip that new staff, should you keep adding more? Should you start pumping willpower? None of this is interesting, just annoying! (In my opinion.) I want to get back to the story, or at least back to the action. Now those of you about to say "just play a hack & slash action game," the action is not what draws me to these games. It helps, certainly, and it's fun...way more fun than screwing around with all but meaningless numbers...but the RPG story is what it all truly boils down to. And I don't like when nitty-gritty details get in the way of the drama, the story, or, yeah...the action.

I respect your opinions, but I think that what you are expressing here is the exact fear of a lot of RPG gamers (including myself). I like figuring things out, the nitty gritty part of the inventory makes me feel like I am really lugging a backpack through Thedas. If that was streamlined (in my opinion) it would take away one of the most defining features of the fantasy RPG. (Again, this is just my humble opinion)

The nitty gritty is what adds to the realism. I accepted the streamlining of ME2 because, like yourself, I am just looking to shoot a lot of people when I play that game. When I play Dragon Age, I am not looking for a fast-paced adventure. Things that you find "get in the way" are things that I find charming and necessary. This is something both schools of thought will never agree upon, but the thing is this: If we keep these"annoying" features you can just speed through the "boring" bits while eating a sandwich. Its no big deal for you, and certainly doable since you still find the DA:O enjoyable. Perhaps every time you clean out your inventory you can reward yourself with a kiss from Morrigan/Leliana/Zevran. If these features are taken away, I will see it as a completely different game, and it will take down the level of enjoyment for me on a considerably large level.

So perhaps you can "endure" the nitty-grittiys for us, no? It doesn't take too much of your time and I will give you a cookie. 

[SirOccam]

zahra wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

I think Mass Effect and Dragon Age are apples and oranges. While you can prefer one to the other, I don't think one can objectively be called better.

------------snipped wall of text for expediency purposes--------------------------------
The same thing applies to other classes too. How much Magic skill do you need? Once you have enough to be able to equip that new staff, should you keep adding more? Should you start pumping willpower? None of this is interesting, just annoying! (In my opinion.) I want to get back to the story, or at least back to the action. Now those of you about to say "just play a hack & slash action game," the action is not what draws me to these games. It helps, certainly, and it's fun...way more fun than screwing around with all but meaningless numbers...but the RPG story is what it all truly boils down to. And I don't like when nitty-gritty details get in the way of the drama, the story, or, yeah...the action.

I respect your opinions, but I think that what you are expressing here is the exact fear of a lot of RPG gamers (including myself). I like figuring things out, the nitty gritty part of the inventory makes me feel like I am really lugging a backpack through Thedas. If that was streamlined (in my opinion) it would take away one of the most defining features of the fantasy RPG. (Again, this is just my humble opinion)

The nitty gritty is what adds to the realism. I accepted the streamlining of ME2 because, like yourself, I am just looking to shoot a lot of people when I play that game. When I play Dragon Age, I am not looking for a fast-paced adventure. Things that you find "get in the way" are things that I find charming and necessary. This is something both schools of thought will never agree upon, but the thing is this: If we keep these"annoying" features you can just speed through the "boring" bits while eating a sandwich. Its no big deal for you, and certainly doable since you still find the DA:O enjoyable. Perhaps every time you clean out your inventory you can reward yourself with a kiss from Morrigan/Leliana/Zevran. If these features are taken away, I will see it as a completely different game, and it will take down the level of enjoyment for me on a considerably large level.

So perhaps you can "endure" the nitty-grittiys for us, no? It doesn't take too much of your time and I will give you a cookie.

Deal!

Uh, but seriously, though, that's part of my point. How much simplification is enough? Not enough? Too much? Like I said, a ME2 level of simplicity is right for ME2, but I'm not advocating making DA:O that simple. I'm just saying DA:O is a smidge on the needlessly complex side.

I don't find it very realistic that a naked character can carry 7 backpacks' worth of stuff on his own. Or that every merchant has an unlimited amount of money for your junk and an unlimited willingness to buy as much of it as you want to sell. Or that a silver chalice takes up MORE room than an "armor" item (and keep in mind "armor" is everything wearable that is not gloves, boots, a helm, or jewelry...all wrapped up as a single item and stackable). None of that makes sense, and yet it is a very good thing that we don't have to worry about it; don't you agree?

I find it unrealistic but oh-so-convenient that:
* Spiders drop coins.
* NPCs are always where you left them; they don't go off to take a nap or something. Merchants never close up shop.
* You don't have to worry about eating or drinking or bathing or brushing your teeth or relieving yourself
* You don't get winded running up and down those remarkably steep inclines in Redcliffe
* You never get tired and never have to sleep
* Corpses rot in like 5 seconds and disappear entirely after you loot them.
And much more.

So do you find these acceptable? Do you think complexity and entertainment are directly proportional? Otherwise, if you agree that some sort of balance between complexity and simplicity is needed, then is DA:O at the right level, or too much one way or the other, and why?

Modifié par SirOccam, 12 juillet 2010 - 10:56 .

[Khayness]

I wake up in the afternoon and this thread is still alive?

[Arttis]

Khayness wrote...

I wake up in the afternoon and this thread is still alive?

Its turned into a more legit thread.But yes still alive.Almost made it to the second page once...

[jableskage]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

Ok for some reason some idiots think that Dragon Age is better than Mass Effect well I say Mass Effect is better because

It has more action

Shepard has more character than a character we can create

We dont have to waste time trying to customize our character and we can just jump straight into the game

The game focuses less on character interaction and more on combat making the game more exiting

Any character character interaction we are forced to partake in is a lot quicker because we dont have to pay as much attention to what we are saying and can just select the top choice for paragon and the bottom choice for renegade

The story is more interesting

We dont have to waste as much time on inventory management and we can get into the action quicker

So you see Mass Effect is better than Dragon Age and Dragon Age 2 being mad more like Mass Effect is only a good thing.

CONSOLE NOOB

[element eater]

i prefer mass effect because it hasnt let me down as much the dlc is good and spinoffs not so bad but besides DAO Dragon age has only realy been dissapointing awakening was poor and glitched and the DLC not up to the standard id expect. Just based on the games theyre equal but the dlc edges it for mass effect

[Lolzika]

you cant say wich one is diffrent both games rock!!!! and you cant compare them Play both of them!

[Majin Paul]

I think the only connection Mass Effect and Dragon Age have with other is Bioware and possibly the new dialogue system, after it is hard to compare them imo so it's ridiculous to say that one is better than the other and also saying that is starting to become the other.

[the1npc]

Gambient wrote...

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

Ok for some reason some idiots think that Dragon Age is better than Mass Effect well I say Mass Effect is better because

It has more action

Shepard has more character than a character we can create

We dont have to waste time trying to customize our character and we can just jump straight into the game

The game focuses less on character interaction and more on combat making the game more exiting

Any character character interaction we are forced to partake in is a lot quicker because we dont have to pay as much attention to what we are saying and can just select the top choice for paragon and the bottom choice for renegade

The story is more interesting

We dont have to waste as much time on inventory management and we can get into the action quicker

So you see Mass Effect is better than Dragon Age and Dragon Age 2 being mad more like Mass Effect is only a good thing.

Troll.

more like xbot or casual:P

[thisisdell]

I love Dragon Age Origins! It was my favorite game of 2009. That said, Mass Effect 2 is my favorite game of all time. Its a masterpiece of which all games should be compared to. * My Opinion*

Modifié par thisisdell, 12 juillet 2010 - 01:36 .

[Aroihkin]

ITT: serious business.

[pprrff]

Mass Effect and Dragon Age is not apples and orange, they are both the same plant type species, same size and color, and grow on the same tree. The ONLY real difference is the the shooting aspect.



Let's see

Warden is just basically spectre, in that they protect the world and have a 'I can do whatever I want and get out of jail' card. Your companions shares similar personalities, and you can pick your background and service record for Shep like you pick origin for the Warden. Both games are both such cliche Bioware plot that trying to differentiate them are nitpicking.

[BallaZs]

Solostran85 wrote...

I doubt many people care about your opinion. I could argue about how DAO is superior to ME but I don't feel like wasting my time.

Agreed,
DA:O is way better than ME.