36 réponses à ce sujet

[Steel Majere343]

I love the game but i wish it was designed better.
Choices can be important without making the player throw his face against the wall in frusteration over wasting 50 hours to play the game.

Heres the cause of my rage:
I tried playing a pure evil character. if that doesn't spell it out for you then  (due to being in the non spoiler section) i will just say i killed the only two people in the game who can heal. Why? because it is an rpg, they made the path available for us to go down it.

Well im here to report that the game is impossable without having an...outside source for pultices and without a method of healing, well the one person in the game who can besides the player themselves.

I hope they fix this as i wont be picking the game up again until something changes, seeing as how i do not want to start all over again.

chances are they wont fix it though and it is just ever so frusterating i can't believe it. Previously i had thought that once a certain vendor became unavailable there would be someone to take his place elsewhere. There is not.

It is not fun now, only frusterating. I can't play it anymore because of this. Now obviously half of this is because of my rage. But the other half is a true opinion.

There needs to be more than one picky @** elf vender in the game. otherwise, its condemming a lot of people who may make decisions and not know their outcomes, and that isn't fair nor is it fun.

[SpiderFan1217]

Get a squadmate to learn level 2 herbalism. Buy the health Paultice recipe. Make hundreds of health paultices. For each of your squadmates: go to tactics, input

self: health: <50%: use greatest health paultice. MAKE SURE THIS IS ON TOP!



I've beaten the game three times without a healer.

[Wonderllama4]

Morrigan served as my healer but yeah, I wish there was a way to avoid Wynne's fate.

[Daerog]

This is when tactics and good defense come in. Healers make everything easy, but you can still beat it without them. Retreating and pulling enemies to a more favorable terrain, having two tanks (have one be focused then the other taunt when needed), traps/disables, etc.

Only thing that bothers me are enemy mages, so I would either burn them down fast if it is reasonable, or retreat out of their range if I can. Ever thought of using your poisons?

[BomimoDK]

It's your own fault for being a sadist. i can't feel sorry for you. especially not when you try to make it someone elses problem that YOU just had to Lop heads off. Just trek through or give up. i don't care. too sad i guess. but, what can we do?

I played on Normal without healer or potions. i relied on quick takedowns and proper tanking from Al. Not the best way to play, but it does beat out Nightmare WITH a healer. Anyway. either try or give up. but don't make your mistakes Biowares fault. you could just not have done it. anyway, your best bet is to get some serious, agile damage dealing into your party and get them down before you go down.

Modifié par BomimoDK, 12 juillet 2010 - 11:40 .

[Myusha]

.....He's going for the pure evil character for fun, not because he's a sadist. Although it is his fault for not picking up tactics sooner. And as stated Herbalism is useful and tactics are extremely important.

[Lord_Saulot]

Pure evil has consequences. In particular, killing people whose help you need is foolish and should make it difficult for you.



This is a good thing for a roleplaying game.

[Pubknight]

Steel Majere343 wrote...
I hope they fix this as i wont be picking the game up again until something changes, seeing as how i do not want to start all over again.

I'm curious... if you don't want to start all over again... and the healers are already dead... what exactly could they do to fix it?

If you have one of the respec books, you can pick up the herbalism skill and make potions.

While there are problems with Awakening that do need fixed, unfortunatlely what you are talking about is not one of those problems.

Basically, if you killed all healers, you should have had the forethought that you might require an alternative means of healing.
So besides playing an evil character, apparently you were playing a somewhat dense evil character.
What you are complaining about is akin to killing all rogues and then complaining that you can't unlock a chest... only with healers there are alternatives (potions).

Modifié par Pubknight, 12 juillet 2010 - 03:05 .

[Yrkoon]

BomimoDK wrote...

It's your own fault for being a sadist. i can't feel sorry for you. especially not when you try to make it someone elses problem that YOU just had to Lop heads off.

I was going to point this out.

 The consistantly warped view that some people have regarding what's  "evil"  never ceases to amaze me.

Newsflash:  Evil does not mean  " immediatly kill all  people".  It doesn't even mean  " immediatly kill all good people".    It means you're out to acquire power for your self in any way possible.    An intelligent evil person does not just go out and kill potentially powerful allies.   They do the opposite.  They  put on their charm.  They lie and deceive.   They gain everyone's trust... then  LATER, when the ally is no longer needed,  they can  be... eliminated..

 Specifically, If you're evil,  it'll be in your own selfish best interests to save the circle (and by extension, Wynne), if for no other reason than to  make  self-rightious templars like Gregoir look like inept fools.  There's also the matter of mages being  more powerful allies against the blight than Templars are.

[Forst1999]

"With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created."

Seriously, in a RPG there are choices and they have consequences. There is nothing to fix, your choices weren't very clever. Example: In Fallout 1 you could play a "stupid evil" game, just killing everyone you saw. No good idea, but it isn't the game's fault that it becomes rather unplayable.

[Daewan]

I happily killed my healers on my evil playthrough. With a mage who didn't have a single healing spell. I also nuked my party members repeatedly and let them die a lot. I didn't care; I was invulnerable to most things. I also leeched the life out of my enemies. Forget healing potions and spells; those stupid warriors need to learn to dodge.

With an evil rogue, I had to use potions a lot. I've never tried it with a warrior; I got bored, but I bet a Reaver could do it.

Bottom line: If you want to be evil, learn to plan ahead, not just plan to take heads. That doesn't work right.

[BomimoDK]

Yrkoon wrote...

BomimoDK wrote...

It's your own fault for being a sadist. i can't feel sorry for you. especially not when you try to make it someone elses problem that YOU just had to Lop heads off.

I was going to point this out.

 The consistantly warped view that some people have regarding what's  "evil"  never ceases to amaze me.

Newsflash:  Evil does not mean  " immediatly kill all  people".  It doesn't even mean  " immediatly kill all good people".    It means you're out to acquire power for your self in any way possible.    An intelligent evil person does not just go out and kill potentially powerful allies.   They do the opposite.  They  put on their charm.  They lie and deceive.   They gain everyone's trust... then  LATER, when the ally is no longer needed,  they can  be... eliminated..

 Specifically, If you're evil,  it'll be in your own selfish best interests to save the circle (and by extension, Wynne), if for no other reason than to  make  self-rightious templars like Gregoir look like inept fools.  There's also the matter of mages being  more powerful allies against the blight than Templars are.

Deviating from the generic thick as a Troll evil and going more towards the more sneaky, clever Evil is also so much more fun. especially if you throw in just a tiny winy temper... not much. just so that he will lose his head once or twice in a whole playthrough and **** it up. now THAT'S interesting right there.

My noble was a ruthless rogue... she killed anyone in her way, though she was not stupid, Wynnes head was lopped too. Leliana changed her... and so did Morrigan when she opened her heart and called her "sister". she felt like **** and devoted all her power towards the good. the typical knight in armor that saves litterally everyone.

I'd like to play... maybe a dwarven noble one day that leans more towards the greater good with a bias towards Dwarves. I just hate playing Noble... should i?

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I assume you mean you killed Wynne and sided with the werewolves..



You do know Morrigan can both make healing potions and be given the heal spell right? I played my first game using no healer and making no potions, except a few from the components I found. I got along fine. I wasnt even aware that I could buy unlimited elfroot.

[Steel Majere343]

ok good points here. First id like to point out that it is a roleplaying game, in light of that, while there should be consequences i feel that they are too dire. Its not about losing the healer, that is a fine consequence. Its about losing the ability to make PULTICES which is too much.



in response to you Shinian2, i know she can, but i dont have any ingrediants lol. I sided with the werewolves remember? therefore the one guy in the entire world who sells them, i cant have.



There are certain things that a game should leave alone in order to keep the game fun. For example if you were playing the game and you decided to walk down road B would you find it fair and still fun if all of your party members just left? No more, all of them gone, now you have to play the game solo.



Is it possible to some degree? for some people maybe but for the large majority this will be seen as wasting their time and if they have no other saves a complete game breaker.



I'v beatn the game before, so i know whats possible and what isn't. Im furious because the game itself is literally forcing me to play a role when i want my characters role to be something different. Good and evil should largely be storyline only consequences, not complete gameplay mechanic changes.



Anyways, morrigan. Yes i know she can make pultices but she cant actually because i have nothing else to make them with, she can be given the heal spell but lets be honest here. That only does so much. 5 second cool down is a lot when taking on a lot of enemies. This is why potions are better. Even lesser potions give you the same healing effect (if not greater) as a heal spell. Being able to use them on command is practically built into the game. The game tells you to use a healing pultice when you get low, not to have your healer heal you. A healer is just a combination of a line of creation and a specialty class, its not really a real thing in this game. They are all just, mage.



Pultices are what players are actually meant to use for the majority of the time, "healers" are just meant to cut down on their use, meaning less time chugging and more time fighting.



I must appologize for the rage post but surely some of you must understand. I'v been pretty sucked into this character and wanted to see him through, but i am at a boss now, with no more experience left in the world till after i beat said boss (so i can't teach morrigan the spell if i wanted to) the healer is dead, the merchant is dead, it is me, my sturdy warrior, my evil mage, and my dog. which would have been fine, but i can no longer make their heals.



I tried to just trudge through it, believe me it was a trudge to get thus far, and i thought that maybe another elfroot vender would appear somewhere since i figured surely bioware would not just leave their player base out to dry having wasted all their time and no way to make potions, but it appears they would. And did lol.

[Yrkoon]

Steel Majere343 wrote...

ok good points here. First id like to point out that it is a roleplaying game, in light of that, while there should be consequences i feel that they are too dire. Its not about losing the healer, that is a fine consequence. Its about losing the ability to make PULTICES which is too much.

I don't  completely  disagree.

But again, anyone can eventually make  healing poultices.  You get a skill  point every 3 levels or so.    Choose herbalism the next time you do.  Or if you don't want  to litter your main character with that skill, have Alistair learn it.  Or Sten.  Or whoever you  go adventuring with in this game.

As for the  avaliability of ingredients.  c'mon.  How many healing pots do you need?  Aside from the dozens you can find, and the dozens  more you can buy, you can also  buy a rather large quanity of ingredients from the other merchants, and find  tons of elfroots on the ground and in crates and chests  in every area of the game.  You don't need the   Elf merchant and his unlimited supply.

Beyond that, I'm wondering what the true source of the problem is.  Are you equipped optimally?   It was only in my *first* playthrough that I found myself chugging down healing pots like an alcoholic.  After that, I started learning about  the benefits of high armor and defense ratings.... and  I noticed that  they were having a direct impact on how much damage I was taking in  battle.  That is to say, when my  dual-wielder's defense was about 110 or so.... I was typically  coming out of  the   battles relatively unscathed.  And when my tank/2-h warrior's armor was about 40, the same thing was happening.  And in the rare times when I was in trouble, I always had a few healing pots that I found  (not made) to heal me back up again.


Edit:  One more thing.  I noticed that a couple of  people  here are suggesting that you  go to your tactics screen and have everyone in your party programmed to use a health poultice when their health drops  to <50% or whatever.  I don't recommend this.    That is a good way to deplete your supplies very quickly.  Because there  will be  tons of   times where you've got a fight basically won  (enemy's about to be totally wiped out in a few more seconds) but your party will still quaff those potions, even though they don't need to  (fight's almost over).  Also, who cares if dog  falls in battle?  Or if Lelianna does??  Death ain't permanent.  They'll get up when the fight is over.  All that matters is that ONE person in the party stays alive.  So I say don't bother healing anyone if it looks like  someone else in the party is going to "trudge through" as you say..

Modifié par Yrkoon, 12 juillet 2010 - 10:40 .

[Steel Majere343]

Thats an intresting note, its not really my party thats the issue though. I'v created them from scratch obviously and im quit the vet at the game, im not expert tactitioner extrodinair but i can hold my own in tactical games.



and all the things you have said i have done. I don't mind when companions die, go back to camp, use one of the many injury kits, doesnt matter much. I don't know how you got through the game without chugging a whole bunch of them, but maybe i should say again that im not using a "healer" as most people put it.



Im not using one because my character doesnt like wynn (killed her in fact) and my main character is a rogue. So that may explain to you why i use so many. they are my only source of health regain in battle.



Im not much for min/maxing as many people who play these types of games are. I micromanage, but not to that degree. Although for guides that i put out i obviously create very elaborate strategies but for personal play i prefer to do just that. Just play the game, not to plan 80 levels later if ill be uber equipped. Or trying to learn a specific skill as fast as possible. I prefer to learn the skills i WANT to learn and take the people i LIKE to take with me.



So i end up using lots of potions, which was fine up until recently. I scrapped by by letting party members die and saving the small stock i had. But i can, i'd like to remind you that i am at a boss.. I have literally 0 at this point. I'v already used up every stores stock, and searched every elfroot plant, i'v encountered every random encounter. All elfroot in the world is gone, as is all experience in the world.



I have morrigan with me so its not about not having the skill, when i said not being able to make pultices was tough i meant because a certain merchant is dead. Not because i have noone who can do so. I still have the other mage, and even if i decided to tell her to go away i would make another character take up the skill to keep me going.

[Steel Majere343]

just to reply to some of the earlier posts. I am actually trying to get into game design, now im not trying to use that to say i am right and you are all wrong lol, i put that out there so that you believe me when i say,



there is a kind of motto in the field where nothing should be the players fault. If the player is not having fun it is ALWAYS the designers fault as they made the game. I will take that with me when i actually break into the field after college.



Though i made the choices bioware put those choices in their game. It is still their game and they should take responsability for whats in the game, not me. I had no hand in creating this game.

I point you to the scenario above where i stated that i doubt you would think the same if, for example, being nice led to all of your party members leaving.



Although you made the choice to be nice, bioware put that consequence in there. They need to consider that players might actually take the alternate roads they put in their game. No matter the choices a player makes a game needs to be playable and fun as that is the whole purpose. Yet here, although its a good game, it is possible through certain choices that BIOWARE has included to devoid the game of both of those things.



If bioware had not made that choice an option i would have never tried to go down it. No it is not like complaining about not being able to open locks without a rogue because opening locks is not a necessary thing. pultices, in this game, are.



Every path in a video game should be fun to play as well as playable. If they put the option in there to kill the elves they need to think about what players will do after that is done. Removing something that could prove usefull as a consequence is one thing, such as a certain healer or perhaps just most of that merchants stock. But again, it should not actually kill the game.

[Yrkoon]

Steel Majere343 wrote...

just to reply to some of the earlier posts. I am actually trying to get into game design, now im not trying to use that to say i am right and you are all wrong lol, i put that out there so that you believe me when i say,

there is a kind of motto in the field where nothing should be the players fault. If the player is not having fun it is ALWAYS the designers fault as they made the game. I will take that with me when i actually break into the field after college.

  Right.  There's another motto in the field too:  You can't please everyone.   


So far, I haven't seen much  to suggest that this is anything more than a thread created by a player who's  simply frustrated with the combat difficulty.   Which is fine.  I was in your shoes  in my first playthrough.  But  instead of complaining, My  stubborn competitive  nature took over and I went on a mission to master every aspect of the game.  I came here and got  power-gaming advice.  I applied that advice, and now the game is really easy.     I no longer need healers,  nor healing pots beyond what  I find in chests and bodies of the enemy. and after about level 15 or so, I don't even need those.

  But again, you can't please everyone, And that is the bottom line.  I, for one, LOVED every aspect of Dragon Age: Origins and wouldn't change a thing.  Loved the decision making.  Loved the harsh consequences.  Loved the role playing.    And most of all, I loved the combat.   If they had made it any easier,  or made the consequences less harsh, I probably wouldn't have liked   DA:O  as much.    But Apparently, you would have.

So what are the developers supposed to do about that?  Make the game easier and the consequences less dire?  If so, then I won't be happy. but you will.  And if they do the opposite, I'll be happy and you won't.  So we're back to square one.

Enjoy college while you can.   The Wolves await  you   on the field when you're through

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 juillet 2010 - 05:04 .

[Nazo]

The game is harder because of your choices. It's still completable, as evidenced by the multiple people above claiming not to have used a healing mage. If you have less fun because of the choices you made, well... I dunno what to say about that. Don't do that?

[Thokor]

I don't understand the need for healing potions on normal, I have completed it 3 times in the last few months and have never made a single healing potion, I have made many mana potions though . In 2 plays through I even used Morrigan as my mage and she only had the single heal. With a properly equipped tank with Threaten and Taunt and using proper pulling instead of running into fights you should be able to do the whole games without potions ( well maybe not the dragon fights)

[AntiChri5]

"I killed them......AND NOW THEIR DEAD!!! FIX IT BIOWARE!!!"



If you just kill people off, they will be dead.



If people are dead, they cannot help you.



Give Morrigin heal, use some poultices, adopt a more cautious strategy and i dunno......turn down the difficulty.



The game is quite playable without a healer.

[Daewan]

Steel Majere343 wrote...
Every path in a video game should be fun to play as well as playable. If they put the option in there to kill the elves they need to think about what players will do after that is done. Removing something that could prove usefull as a consequence is one thing, such as a certain healer or perhaps just most of that merchants stock. But again, it should not actually kill the game.

The game is both fun and playable, regardless of your choices.  It's just that YOUR level of comfort with your own choices appears to be impaired.  Healing and poultices are not required, people (besides me) have pointed this out over and over again.  There are ways around these issues if you have the backbone to do it.  Would you really have preferred that they gave you no choices whatsoever?  Or that all of your choices should have the exact, same, unchangeable result?  Really?

A player who kills the elves has to survive without them.  Sure, that shop is gone, and other shops have a limited supply of elfroots.  Is it really the game designer's fault that the player didn't take the upper levels of Potion-Making so that they get the best use of their limited suppy of elfroots?  They did put the skill in there, and it's available to all classes.  Was there some other, more invasive, design decision that you were hoping for?  ("Kill all the healers to unlock a special auto-regen bonus power!")

A player who kills Wynne - and let's be honest - there's no way you can not see that coming, she gives you three chances to back down - but a player who kills her knows full well what they are giving up.  Morrigan already comes with levels in Potion-Making, and all you need to do is give her one point for Heal if you want.  Or you could play more strategically, so that you don't run out of potions so quickly.  Why would you expect that your actions have no consequences whatsover?

And what, exactly, what do you want BioWare to do?  Come over to your house and play the game for you?  Or just write the story so that it's impossible to fail, no matter how many boneheaded decisions you make?  Seriously?  What's the fun in that?

[soteria]

I'll just point out that the game is very beatable without potions, or even without Wynne, or even without a healer or mage of any kind in your group, even on nightmare. That's probably not a realistic outcome on a first playthrough, but it's definitely doable. If you really want healing that bad, give Morrigan Heal, take Spirit Healer, and also give her Group Heal. Or, put three points in the healing line and pick up Regeneration (it's a great spell).

With Morrigan in your group, you should be fine for the whole game, honestly. Make sure she has cone of cold (and blizzard eventually), crushing prison, and sleep. In addition to the spells she starts with, that's all the spells you really need to beat the game. Sleep works great on archers, crushing prison and force field are good on everything, cone of cold + shatters is possibly the most powerful spell combo in the game, and Morrigan will kill groups of white enemies with a Blizzard, keeping them frozen for most of the duration. Just give her some +cold damage gear.

[lizzbee]

...err... Morrigan can become a healer...

[Burningwolf]

Yea,she can,The op's rage is directed at the fact that he is allowed to go all willy nilly killing as he sees fit and not pay any price for it.Tough I say.