26 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirigon]

Bullsh*t. A well-played char in DAO NEVER runs out of mana, even without ever levelling willpower.

[akhom]

With the well setting tactics slot and the items that regenerate stamina, my warrior has the enough stamina to endure every battlefield.



In DA:A, I never use the stamina potion for my warrior.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Tirigon wrote...

Bullsh*t. A well-played char in DAO NEVER runs out of mana, even without ever levelling willpower.

What game are you playing?

My warrior running precise striking and momentum can use 1 ability each fight due to lack of stamina. With warden armor maybe 2-3.

My mages are DROWNING themselves in lyrium cause mana runs out so fast.

Adding willpower grants 5 mana/Stamina. FIVE! lol... its like: level only willpower the next 3 levels and you can use 1 more ability in a fight.


Edit: My suggestion for mages atleast is to add 5 points of mana per point up to 20 will. Then let each point increase it by 7 up to 30 will. then each point past 30 add 9 points. Also adding 0.2 mana regen per second per point of will starting at 10 will.

Warriors and rogues may have ways and gear to save them mid-late game. Mages dont.

Modifié par SomeoneStoleMyName, 12 juillet 2010 - 12:08 .

[Arthur Cousland]

My warrior was fine without using stat points for willpower. He got a nice boost from gear, but nothing was worn strictly for the willpower bonus. My mage was a spirit healer/blood mage and only used mana potions on a few occasions. I'm sure that having Leliana along for Song of Valor didn't hurt either.



If they do anything with willpower, I hope that it does more than just raise mana/stamina by 5 per point. Perhaps it could directly increase mana/stamina regen rate or hostile magic defense? Constitution could also use some tweaking.

[DeepGray]

Whoa, what? You mean you had to choose what you used carefully and not just spam them on cooldown? Btw, it was much easier to manage Mana/Stam in Awakening due to the 100 extra mana/stam from skills and you still have potions if you really need an extra boost.
They should really fix the fact that you can so effectively stack a single offensive stat to the point of brokenness.

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...


My warrior running
precise striking and momentum can use 1 ability each fight due to lack
of stamina. With warden armor maybe 2-3.

Momentum? REALLY?! Did read what the tooltip saids reguarding the ability?

Modifié par DeepGray, 12 juillet 2010 - 12:15 .

[Loerwyn]

Arthur Cousland wrote...
If they do anything with willpower, I hope that it does more than just raise mana/stamina by 5 per point. Perhaps it could directly increase mana/stamina regen rate or hostile magic defense? Constitution could also use some tweaking.

I agree. Add a health regen per second factor to constitution (which would then lower the work of the healer allowing them to either focus on healing the non-tanks or to do damage) and perhaps tweak willpower to give a sta/mana per second factor, and maybe perhaps increase the amount you get from each point. Even with the amount you need, Willpower is a highly undesirable stat IMHO, and Constitution feels "broken".

I do think it's a bit tricky in DA:O, and it's not helped by the fact Stamina = Mana and that isn't explained anywhere "official" IIRC. Either seperate the two stats or roll them into one such as "Power". 

[Sidney]

Tirigon wrote...

Bullsh*t. A well-played char in DAO NEVER runs out of mana, even without ever levelling willpower.

Depends upon how many sustained powers you are burning at the same time. Mages and other classes are different but for both if you are a big fan of sustained powers you can chew mana/stamina like they are going out of style. Example, get a rogue and upgrade to Improved Ranger animals and they'll be down to a handful of moves per fight.


Still, even syaing that I think the fact that people min/max their stats is a lot of the problem and so willpower often gets ignored. For rogues the problem is a bit more acute because they need Dexterity and Cunning plus they need to toss enough into Strength to be able to wear the better armor for them in the game so there's not a lot of spare points for Willpower. Compare with mages where I dump almost every point into Magic and Willpower.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

DeepGray wrote...

Momentum? REALLY?! Did read what the tooltip saids reguarding the ability?

I know perfectly well how it works. But no skill or ability is ever better to use than having momentum active in terms of DPS. Momentum is a minimum of +20% DPS increase.

If you pump will to use other abilities then the irony is that you will then have a lower DPS then just pumping STR or CUN for damage.

Again will power sucks, and autoattacks and sustainables wins over using talents because of this. Which makes the question "Do you want an effective character, or to have fun using lots of abilities?"

[Sidney]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...
Again will power sucks, and autoattacks and sustainables wins over using talents because of this. Which makes the question "Do you want an effective character, or to have fun using lots of abilities?"

I'd challenge you can't be effective just using abilities. My DW Warrior finished the game w/o ever turning on Momentum.  The only three sustained I'll use on any regular basis are: Song of the Bard, Rally and some Summoned Animal and the first 2 are mostly because they don't chew mana like a monster.

It is more fun and visually appealing to bust out your abilties.

[Khayness]

Except from my tank warrior every character was without stamina issues.

Stamina regenerating talents are awesome, Assasin specc is a beast.

[DeepGray]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

DeepGray wrote...

Momentum? REALLY?! Did read what the tooltip saids reguarding the ability?

I know perfectly well how it works. But no skill or ability is ever better to use than having momentum active in terms of DPS. Momentum is a minimum of +20% DPS increase.

If you pump will to use other abilities then the irony is that you will then have a lower DPS then just pumping STR or CUN for damage.

Again will power sucks, and autoattacks and sustainables wins over using talents because of this. Which makes the question "Do you want an effective character, or to have fun using lots of abilities?"

Yes, I do realize that it's odd that pure white damage produces higher DPS than using abilities but that's because stacking offensive stats is way too effective, not because Willpower is weak because at the end of the game, with some classes, even using one activated ability, would lower your overall DPS regardless of whether you had the stamina or not.
For the record, I would choose the effective character obviously. If I wanted flashy animations and visceral combat action, I'd play God of War 3.

[soteria]

To the people complaining that you can't really use activated abilities a lot: yes, you can. Warriors can use deathblow, rogues can use feast of the fallen, mages can use blood magic or potions, and everyone can use stamina regeneration gear. I'll just agree that willpower and constitution are extremely weak stats and need to be looked at.

For the record, I disagree that a dw warrior is most effective just using momentum. Momentum is a great ability, but I'd suggest you'll kill stuff faster blowing all your stamina on specials like punisher, dw sweep, and flurry before turning it on. I'd also suggest that in a lot of cases, by the time you get done blowing your stamina, everything will be dead.

[Tirigon]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

What game are you playing?

My warrior running precise striking and momentum can use 1 ability each fight due to lack of stamina. With warden armor maybe 2-3.

See? You use 2 useless abilities. I would NEVER use precise striking, and momentum ONLY if you either have more mana reg than momentum drains mana per sec, or if you don´t want to use many skills.

My mages are DROWNING themselves in lyrium cause mana runs out so fast.

Hmm, how do you play them?
I had 2 mage playthroughs, and unless I was AW with many sustainables I never needed potions in mob fights, and only few in long fights vs dragons or bosses....

[Tirigon]

soteria wrote...

For the record, I disagree that a dw warrior is most effective just using momentum. Momentum is a great ability, but I'd suggest you'll kill stuff faster blowing all your stamina on specials like punisher, dw sweep, and flurry before turning it on. I'd also suggest that in a lot of cases, by the time you get done blowing your stamina, everything will be dead.

Totally situational.

Imo, in boss fights or other hard fights, talents are better, against mobs momentum wins. Also, momentum on a dual-dagger rogue who backstabs is much more useful than on a warrior.

[soteria]

Reverse that... whirlwind is borderline useless against a boss, dw sweep is best used against a group, and all warrior talents can be used more often against mobs, where you can trigger deathblow. Funny that you just *had* to disagree with me, right after calling momentum a "useless ability" in the post above. I know you love to contradict me, but isn't that a little much?

[Celticon]

Willpower and con could use a boost. There's no reason to waste game development on useless skills/stats just to see the playerbase give way to cookie cutter builds.

Now if willpower wasn't going to be touched, a possible solution would be to cut the sustain costs for toggles, while some of the "weaker/useless" ones should just be reworked into passives (provided they don't have negative effects).

Modifié par Celticon, 12 juillet 2010 - 06:39 .

[DeepGray]

Celticon wrote...

while some of the "weaker/useless" ones should just be reworked into passives (provided they don't have negative effects).

Whoa, you want your cake and eat it too?
And cookie-cutter builds will always exist, it's not possible to balance everything in every way. One (or a small handful depending on style) build will rise above the rest no matter how hard you try.

[Celticon]

And that's the problem with warriors. Too many damn toggle skills, especially when each weapon subset only has 12-16 skills to boot. And for some of them you'll have to waste points if you ever plan on getting the 3rd-4th skill in the chain.

Including Awakenings skills, Archers have 6 toggles. Sword and shield warriors have 3, but they all do the same thing to some arbitrary extent. Of course Shield Wall is the strongest, rendering the other two absolutely useless when you've learned it. There are two more skills in Awakenings, but I haven't really found them useful at all.

Heck, some of them should just be remade into temporary self buffs, if making them passives is too extreme.

I didn't say that it was possible to eliminate cheese strategies, but there needs to be more alternatives. There's not a lot of variety in skills in DA:O, so that leaves you with few options to begin with. Being able to put multiple points into a skill to improve it would definitely be a welcome change.

Modifié par Celticon, 12 juillet 2010 - 07:19 .

[Gambient]

Tirigon wrote...

Bullsh*t. A well-played char in DAO NEVER runs out of mana, even without ever levelling willpower.

Yeah I second this.

[Tirigon]

soteria wrote...

Reverse that... whirlwind is borderline useless against a boss, dw sweep is best used against a group, and all warrior talents can be used more often against mobs, where you can trigger deathblow. Funny that you just *had* to disagree with me, right after calling momentum a "useless ability" in the post above. I know you love to contradict me, but isn't that a little much?

It´s my game experience.

I didn´t use talents vs mobs, because 1 or 2 autohits are enough to kill. I just don´t need talents.

Against bosses, however, the effects help.


And I didn´t call momentum useless. It´s actually quite powerful. My rogue used it almost all the time from level 5 up to the time when the archdemon died...

However, it drains 2 mana per sec (with the mod I use even 6) so it´s not advisable if you want to spam talents.

Modifié par Tirigon, 12 juillet 2010 - 09:36 .

[Sidney]

Tirigon wrote...
Hmm, how do you play them?
I had 2 mage playthroughs, and unless I was AW with many sustainables I never needed potions in mob fights, and only few in long fights vs dragons or bosses....

I never burned all my mana with either mage in routine fights. Lyrium potions were stocked up for the big ticket long endurance fights that were the big time bosses.

In a typical encounter if you need to toss out more spells than your mana allows you've done something very wrong in the battle tactics or in your character build. Even if everything isn't dead the mages should have weakened the foes enough it isn't wortheile to just keep dumping more speels on the tattered leftovers.

I did bleed out my warrior and rogue talents from time to time in stamina in some long mob fights and of course in the boss fights they were 100% uselss in short order.

[TheXispa13]

 Hi guys i have a problem, i want build a dw warrior in dao but i don´t know  wich stats i put in first place and belong the game??? Please help me.

Thanks for the attention.

[Tirigon]

Also:

[Chromie]

I hate dogs and puppies.