14 réponses à ce sujet

[ajayatfringefx]

Ok so I've got a build problem here.
I've got:

3/4 Incendiary ammo
3/4 Cryo
4 Charge
2 Shockwave
4 Pull field
4 Assualt mastery
 
I don't know whether to get inferno with my remaining 4 points or to get squad cryo. I hate the problem of how you have to spend 2 for shockwave, and I really want Pull field, but know I don't know what to decide. Help please

[jwalker]

That depends on how you play it.
If you like gunshotting baddies at close range, the 3 meters burst radius of inferno works wonders.

Personally, I'd recommend inferno ammo and rank 1 of cryo (rank 2 and 3 are a waste). Spend whatever skill points you have left on bonus power

Those skills prerequistes are a b***. And some of them don't make sense. For vanguards, shockwave is prerequiste of pull. For adepts, pull is prerequisite  of shockwave. How's that work ?

Modifié par jwalker, 12 juillet 2010 - 02:18 .

[Pacifien]

I have always loved squad cryo ammo, especially when I follow it up with a charge and watch everything shatter.

One person mentioned using Slam as a replacement for Shockwave/Pull because you can still use Slam for warp explosions. But that's not going to help you much since Slam will only work on one target versus the multiple targets of Pull Field.

I personally feel that instead of assigning specific biotic abilities to each biotic class, you should have allowed the player to pick which ones they'd like from a list. The only difference being that a Vanguard is limited to choosing only two while an Adept gets to choose, well, all of them for the most part.

The only thing I can think of as to why Vanguards have to put points into shockwave before pull is that I suppose shockwave is more fitting with the brute force of the Vanguard class. Still don't like it, though.

Hmm... Inferno for the person who likes to get that headshot in after a charge. Squad cryo for someone who likes to AoE the whole field.

[Simbacca]

I'd say if you can only get one, Squad Cryo is probably the way to go over Inferno. Having three people constantly freezing your enemies is invaluable crowd control for the Vanguard. Besides, Cryo is the more universal of the two ammos, it can freeze anyone whereas Inferno is best for just armor and organics. Plus with Cryo on your Evi/Claymore, you will freeze most "trooper" foes in one-shot, no matter the defense, and then shattered with a quick melee or two. It will still be easy to switch your rank 3 Incendiary Ammo on for Shepard anytime you want to take down enemy armor quickly as well, and then watch them freeze as you squadmates continue firing. 

Modifié par Simbacca, 12 juillet 2010 - 03:40 .

[FoFoZem]

In all honesty I would forget about pull and go with Slam. Slam is just as effective at Warp'splosions as Pull once you evolve it to the increased lift duration option.



And, yes, Slam does only work on one target but if you're using it for a warp detonator only, it shouldn't be a big deal.



Pull Field rarely even picks up more than one target anyway as the enemy AI has a natural tendency to spread out when they get too close to each other.

[JaegerBane]

I would personally go for Inferno Ammo, if for nothing else than that it's one of the better level 4 ammo evolutions, offering big AoE damage and crowd control for every shot you fire.

Pacifien wrote...
I personally feel that instead of assigning specific biotic abilities to each biotic class, you should have allowed the player to pick which ones they'd like from a list. The only difference being that a Vanguard is limited to choosing only two while an Adept gets to choose, well, all of them for the most part.

While I think that would be interesting, I would submit it would be better to fix the powers first. Having a system where the Adept's 'advantage' is to get all powers while the Vanguard can pick and choose the good ones and leave the poor ones isn't going to help class balance.

[JaegerBane]

FoFoZem wrote...

In all honesty I would forget about pull and go with Slam. Slam is just as effective at Warp'splosions as Pull once you evolve it to the increased lift duration option.

And, yes, Slam does only work on one target but if you're using it for a warp detonator only, it shouldn't be a big deal.

Pull Field rarely even picks up more than one target anyway as the enemy AI has a natural tendency to spread out when they get too close to each other.

I'm not sure this is accurate. Pull Field isn't that difficult to plant on enemy groups (the blue suns in particular seem to often start off in groups) and the mass-reducing effects of Pull tend to pay back dividends when you detonate a guy in the middle and the level 2 throw force of Warp explosions sends everyone off into oblivion.

[Neuzhelin]

FoFoZem wrote...

In all honesty I would forget about pull and go with Slam. Slam is just as effective at Warp'splosions as Pull once you evolve it to the increased lift duration option.

And, yes, Slam does only work on one target but if you're using it for a warp detonator only, it shouldn't be a big deal.

Pull Field rarely even picks up more than one target anyway as the enemy AI has a natural tendency to spread out when they get too close to each other.

this

[Bozorgmehr]

JaegerBane wrote...

FoFoZem wrote...

In all honesty I would forget about pull and go with Slam. Slam is just as effective at Warp'splosions as Pull once you evolve it to the increased lift duration option.

And, yes, Slam does only work on one target but if you're using it for a warp detonator only, it shouldn't be a big deal.

Pull Field rarely even picks up more than one target anyway as the enemy AI has a natural tendency to spread out when they get too close to each other.

I'm not sure this is accurate. Pull Field isn't that difficult to plant on enemy groups (the blue suns in particular seem to often start off in groups) and the mass-reducing effects of Pull tend to pay back dividends when you detonate a guy in the middle and the level 2 throw force of Warp explosions sends everyone off into oblivion.

Pull Field is one of the best powers around and like JaegerBane said isn't difficult to use. I regulary can get 3-4 guys in the air with Pull Field - a far more effective power compared to lvl 4 Slam.

To the OP, If you love Charge get Inferno Ammo and Squad Cryo Ammo (for your squadies). If you like to use biotics - ingnore the ammo powers (except cryo for the Geth missions if you're not bringing Zaeed) and get Pull Field (if you're not playing Hardcore/Insanity) Shockwave is awesome too and you can max your bonus power as well.

[jwalker]

FoFoZem wrote...

In all honesty I would forget about pull and go with Slam. Slam is just as effective at Warp'splosions as Pull once you evolve it to the increased lift duration option.

Spending 10 skill points to get a 1.5 seconds window to make the explosion is way too expensive. Pull field (or rank 3 for that matter) has a lift duration of 9 seconds.
Using Pull, you get to choose when the detonation will happen. It also allows you to wait for Miranda's or Thane's Unstable Warp to recharge (9 seconds, 7.2 with biotic cooldowns)
Choosing Slam as bonus power to do something that you can do far more efficiently with Pull is a waste.

[Pacifien]

jwalker wrote...
Choosing Slam as bonus power to do something that you can do far more efficiently with Pull is a waste.

Other than the fact that you have to put points into Shockwave in order to get Pull. If a player wants both Inferno Ammo and Squad Cryo Ammo, then something has to give. But if the player is adamant about keeping Pull Field, then they're going to have to choose between Inferno versus Squad Cryo.

[jwalker]

Pacifien wrote...

jwalker wrote...
Choosing Slam as bonus power to do something that you can do far more efficiently with Pull is a waste.

Other than the fact that you have to put points into Shockwave in order to get Pull. If a player wants both Inferno Ammo and Squad Cryo Ammo, then something has to give. But if the player is adamant about keeping Pull Field, then they're going to have to choose between Inferno versus Squad Cryo.

If Pull field is mandatory, here's what I'd do:

Incendiary (4)
Cryo (1)
Charge (4)
Shockwave (2)
Pull (4)
Passive (4)
Bonus(3)

If level 1 is ok:

Incendiary (4)
Cryo (4)
Charge (4)
Shockwave(2)
Pull (1)
Passive (4)
Bonus (3)

Or Pull (3) and Bonus power (1).... But never Slam for Vanguard.

[FoFoZem]

JaegerBane wrote...

FoFoZem wrote...

In all honesty I would forget about pull and go with Slam. Slam is just as effective at Warp'splosions as Pull once you evolve it to the increased lift duration option.

And, yes, Slam does only work on one target but if you're using it for a warp detonator only, it shouldn't be a big deal.

Pull Field rarely even picks up more than one target anyway as the enemy AI has a natural tendency to spread out when they get too close to each other.

I'm not sure this is accurate. Pull Field isn't that difficult to plant on enemy groups (the blue suns in particular seem to often start off in groups) and the mass-reducing effects of Pull tend to pay back dividends when you detonate a guy in the middle and the level 2 throw force of Warp explosions sends everyone off into oblivion.

The Blue Suns, or shielded enemies in general, will want to group up at the onset of a battle, however the AI on Insanity tends to move around as often as possible.

I am not saying it is impossible to get 2 or 3 enemies into a single pull field, but by the time you have 2-3 enemies' shields down, they are almost always already isolated.

Pull is one of my favorite abilities and I agree that it is a superior power to Slam. However, in my opinion, putting 2 points into Shockwave in order to unlock the power isn't worth when there is a note-worthy alternative available at the beginning of the game.

And while it may be rewarding to see an extra enemy get projected with the force of a level 2 throw (a force which is considerably low in-game), I don't think it is wise to gimp your build just for the aesthetics of a power.

Your Vanguard will have a lot more CC potential with Squad Cryo, Inferno Ammo, and Slam than with Inferno/Sq.Cryo (one or the other) and Pull.

And let's face it, Shockwave is essentially a novelty item on Insanity. The Vanguard's bioics weren't designed well enough that they complement each other very well. And the same goes for the Sentinel. Neither of those classes has the ability to set up their own biotic combo. Which means playing as one of these classes with a focus on biotics requires you to build your character around your squadmates if you want to combo.

Slam arguably gives the Vanguard its best option for CC/CQC. And, of course, you don't need to max it. It works fine as a one-point wonder if you are mainly concerned with Warp'splosions.

But in the end, it's all a matter of preference. If dumping 3 points into Shockwave to get Pull is better for you, I respect that entirely.

Modifié par FoFoZem, 13 juillet 2010 - 12:33 .

[Tlazolteotl]

I don't think pull field is worth doing on a vanguard ... 'cos with a 3s cooldown, you could save 9 points, and just cast pull multiple times.

Sure, it's not ideal vs. husks or whatever, but with charge and cryo ammo, you should have those situations covered.

As for biotic combos, using squadmate powers for a quick 1-2-3 (such as area overload, pull, warp) is nice, but often pull + shoot is a more efficient use of time. Even with an adept, I find myself choosing to shoot and use pull (or singularity) again rather than waste cooldown on warp.

[ajayatfringefx]

Thanks for the info guys. I really wanted pull field because of the faster cooldown and area effect, but I understand how slam can be a at the same level. I think I have decided to maybe get Squad cryo because incendiary with my scimitar pellet's damage area probably could set multiple enemies on fire the same way as inferno. I'll try and test it out, and I'll see what I come up with. Thanks again.