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If There was an Option to Give the Collector Base to the Alliance... [UPDATED; NOW WITH A POLL]


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#1
Fiery Phoenix

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...would you have picked it over destroying/handing the base to Cerberus?

This question is primarily for those who destroyed the base, though anyone who spared it is certainly welcome to discuss the subject.

We all know this has been discussed to death, but what I'm getting at here is not particularly destroying or sparing the base as we have previously covered. I'm simply saying that if there was an option to give the Collector base to the Alliance, in addition to destroying and giving it Cerberus, would you go with it? Or would you still destroy/give the base to Cerberus? Personally, I would probably hand it to the Alliance.

That's all. Depending on how active the thread becomes, I may include a poll. Meanwhile, let's see your opinions. I most likely won't be replying to everything, but I'll definitely be watching/reading. And please let's keep it a clean and rational discussion. Immature comments and flaming will automatically be reported. Sorry.
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UPDATE: A poll has been added. Click here if you'd like to vote. Image IPBImage IPB

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 13 juillet 2010 - 01:33 .


#2
SandTrout

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I destroy all Reaper tech unless it is of clear advantage not to. It has proven far too dangerous to be left to power-mongers or bureaucrats. If I had known EDI had Reaper Tech in her at the start, I would have had her ejected immediately. She's just lucky she proved useful and trustworthy before I found out.

So, in short, no I would not give the Collector base the the Alliance.

#3
CC-Tron

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I wouldn't give the base to the alliance. They wouldn't know what to do with it. Like the council, they don't believe the reapers are the real threat. Cerberus are better informed and equipped to use the base tech against the reapers.

#4
Pacifien

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I think if the option had been to give it to anyone other than the Illusive Man (not just the Alliance, but the Council or the STG or Conrad Vernor), it might have given me more pause on the decision. As it is, it becomes a decision about honor versus sacrifice. Maintain a sense of one's soul even in the face of possible extinction or sacrifice everything in the name of survival.

The problem that I have with the Illusive Man is that he would do anything to meet his goals which go beyond his own survival. He tells you as much when he says the base is fighting the Reapers and taking human dominance even further after that threat is over. I've always felt that the Illusive Man gives an unspoken consent to the harsh methods of his Cerberus cells, even as the research blows up in their faces, so long as the data can still be used in future research. It's simply not a method with which I agree.

However, other groups are not beyond their own selfish goals. The Turians managed to develop the Thannix Cannon from reverse engineering some part of Sovereign. Did they share that with anyone? No. Then again, if they aren't going to believe in the Reaper threat, there's no point in sharing an innovation that gives them a massive advantage over others.

The decision really is based on the fact that I don't trust the Illusive Man. He could discover great technologies that will help defeat the Reapers, but I don't trust him to use such technology wisely. Denying the chance to research the base is denying a valuable and unique resource, but all that research is useless if you feel the man in charge of it doesn't have the ability to use it properly.

Destroying the base doesn't necessarily put Shepard back to square one after all he went through in ME2. Whatever you do with the base, it's clear that they managed to gain some knowledge of Harbinger based on the datapad Joker gives Shepard. It's just that Shepard has to find a different way, a harder way. Sometimes the harder way results in the better way, though.

I do have playthroughs that destroy the base in some and keep the base in others. It depends on how I play Shepard. So far, the main Shepard who is actually quite paragon and dislikes the Illusive Man completely ends up keeping the base. Because that Shepard is far and away more obsessed about destroying the Reapers.

#5
AntiChri5

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I would have considered it, rather then the instant "yeah, no" i gave timmy.

#6
Fiery Phoenix

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AntiChri5 wrote...

I would have considered it, rather then the instant "yeah, no" i gave timmy.

Timmy? LOL! :lol:

Good points so far. If the thread is still active by this time tomorrow, I will start a poll.

#7
smudboy

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The question is why. This is a Cerberus operation. Cerberus made you Cyber Jesus. They're the only ones doing anything. My continued belief as to why people blow up the place is just because they dislike TIM.

This kind of choice, whom one chooses to faction with, should also be made available at the start. The loosely tied events, and ease of going anywhere, shows that things could've been guided by anyone aside from Martin Sheen. I mean if they wanted the whole "choice" thing to mean something in an RPG. *glares at Alpha Protocol*

#8
pprrff

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I would give it to the council or alliance in a heart beat. I not above winning by any means necessary, I just don't want to give a reaper manufacturing facility to someone I am about stab in the back in the next game (hopefully that will be an option).

#9
Foolsfolly

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My actual choice regarding the ME2 ending was to destroy the Collector Base. That's my personal feelings on the matter.



If there was an option to give it to someone else, I'd still destroy the Collector Base. It's a genocide machine built with the singular purpose of converting living organisms into Reapers. It has no other purpose, it's not even a fortress or a war machine since it had absolutely no defenses.



The big reason a lot of people keep the base is to get information to combat the Reapers. Since regardless of choice a datapad shows up in Shepard's hands with Reaper information, I'm betting EDI copied a lot of data regardless during the Suicide Mission. So keeping the base simply comes down to this: do you want someone to have a machine that kills entire races to make Reapers?



It's kinda a no-brainer.

#10
Christmas Ape

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We couldn't even trust the Alliance to use Shepard properly against the Reapers, how badly would they mess up with the base?

#11
Barquiel

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I would give the base to the council.
- evidence
- every species would benefit
As the only option is to hand it to the evil space-racist, I destroyed it.

#12
CroGamer002

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I would rather let Collectors keep their base then give it to Alliance. And specially to the Council.

Modifié par Mesina2, 12 juillet 2010 - 04:58 .


#13
Pacifien

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smudboy wrote...
The question is why. This is a Cerberus operation. Cerberus made you Cyber Jesus. They're the only ones doing anything. My continued belief as to why people blow up the place is just because they dislike TIM.

Shepard has no obligation to be loyal to Cerberus just because they helped him. That was their choice. They can view it as their mistake if Shepard doesn't do everything they demand.

#14
Burningwolf

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They knew (s)he was a wild card at best when it came to anything other than stopping the reapers.

#15
Iakus

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If there was an option to hnd the base over to the Alliance, or even the Citadel, I would probably have kept the base. I would have loved to be able to walk up to the Council and say "Dismiss THIS claim!" Alas, the only option was blow it up or hand it over to TIM, who I never trusted throughout the game. He might be the only one doing anything about the Reaper treat, but that doesn't mean we can trust him not to abuse his findings. Sure he might get information out of it. But quite likely he'd figure the best way to face the Reapers is a bunch of Reapers of is own.



Plus a whhile back someone pointed out that this base, being Reaper tech, may have a risk of indocrinating people that stick around too long. Not a sure ting, but definitely someting to consider regardless of who you would hand it over to.

#16
lovgreno

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Yes the Council or/and Alliance would definitely be more resourcefull and responsible owners of the base but the risk of reapers or collectors retaking it would still be too high so I would blow it up anyway.

But the story is written so we have to choose between two bad things with a very unclear outcome The moraly questionable and inept Cerberus fit better in that role than the Council or Alliance.

#17
jklinders

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Giving the base to the Alliance might very well be the same as giving it to Cerberus. TIM could likely manipulate who in the Alliance gets to go and they would be his supporters. Therefore if I save the base I would hand it over to the council.



just because TIM was the only one backing me does not mean I have to stand behind him at every point. Cerberus has a pretty bad track record of keeping control of their projects. Time to let someone else have a kick at the can instead of letting TIM hog all the intel for his own agenda.

#18
Caesar914

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Nope, I wouldn't hand that thing over to the Alliance. Never trust a bureaucrat, that's something I've learned a lot lately. The Alliance would debate what to do with the thing for months or years. I'd still give it to TIM like I always do. The way I see it he will either actually come up with something good from it to use against the Reapers, or he will make a Reaper of his own, which I'm fine with, because it's just one more fun thing to kill.

#19
Foolsfolly

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Barquiel wrote...

I would give the base to the council.
- evidence
- every species would benefit
As the only option is to hand it to the evil space-racist, I destroyed it.


I think our experience with the Council in the first game tells us what they'd do here:

Evidence of Reapers: Salarian Councilor- "Everyone knows the Collectors have advanced technology there's nothing here that supports that this had to be made by "Reapers.""

Every Species Would Benefit: It's a genocide machine. No one benefits when you must sacrifice hundreds of thousands of lives to get a Reaper larva to experiment on. Also for some reason they guys who created the base and know the tech only used Humans to make their Reaper, so the only known viable ingrediant to make a Reaper would be more human lives. Any other alien species may have...unforeseen consquences. It could be unstable, it could not form, it could be insane. We have no idea why the other races were deemed unusable but they were and it had to be for a reason.

Cerberus is a Terrorist Organistation with delusions of grandeur. But the other groups aren't perfect either.

The Council is racist (only three races are important enough to decide the fate of the galaxy?) but worse they're so busy trying to control their little worlds that they constantly miss the larger threat. Given the Collector Base they'd likely send some scientists, get a few reports, put those reports somewhere classified, the Shadow Broker would get them, and then someone will buy the information. They won't act on anything because they're caught up in politics. Always remember, a Reaper appeared with an army at its back, invaded the Citadel, docked onto the Citadel Tower, and began to interface with the Station and the Council STILL doesn't see a threat with the Reapers.

The Alliance are bullies. Time and time again that's pointed out by different species. They showed up thirty years ago and demand things from the other races simply because they're selfish and arrogent. They've spread far and wide and seem entitled to everything in the known universe. At the end of the day, this is a group that brought us Udina and Cerberus. And many on these boards still believe there are connections between Cerberus and the Alliance heads. Giving them the Base would ultimately lead to Cerberus having the base, either through connections, dealings, blackmail, or simple infiltration.

The Turians? Ever read about their warfare tactics? This would be used as a weapon.

Batarians? Duh.

Asari? They'd give it to some one and continue to shake their asses in bars and generally do whatever they please.

Quarians? They've been roaming space for 300 years, apparently long enough to evolve in a way that makes normal life impossible, entirely because they can't decide if they want to colonize another world. Given something like this they'll likely do nothing with it because they couldn't decide what to do with it.

Geth? They'd strip it of hardware and then go back to making their own future.

In short, BioWare's created a diverse universe where there is no universally accepted 'Good Guys'. They're all flawed, their beliefs, laws, actions, and systems are flawed but still manage to function just like real life.

So the only way the Collector Base could not be misused would be if there was an option for Shepard and a team of their choosing to examine the structure and once they were sure all useful information was taken, destroy it so no one else could get access to it.

#20
Daewan

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Mass indoctrination machines do not go to anyone. They get blown up. Besides, the Alliance would have just handed it to Cerberus because that's where all the smart, slightly unethical scientists end up anyway. Dumb, ethical scientists end up getting indoctrinated.

But I would have appreciated the option to let more people download all the information from the base. The more the merrier.

The base itself is still going up in a mushroom cloud.

#21
Guest_mashavasilec_*

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 I'd give Alliance a finger as willingly as i gave it to Timmy. I just hate them all equally

Besides, Timmy appears to have a little more brain in his head and a little less stick up his butt. So no, Alliance gets nothing from me

#22
Captain Jazz

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I have no faith in cerberus' abilities to study the base sensibly. Sure, the base may have important technological advances waiting to be discovered within it, but we've seen what happens when cerberus looks at anything even vaguelly dangerous - the researchers die and everyone in the vicinity dies along with them, then Shepard comes along with a dustpan and broom to clear out the bodies and the hordes of monstrosities that pour out... no way are they ever getting their incompetent hands on the base... but I'm not sure I'd trust the Alliance with the base much more.

Of course I believe that the Alliance would be responsible in their research, but there are too many unknown factors involved in the base. It had a direct link to a reaper, was that destroyed by the blast? Can reapers indoctrinate over a radio link? Are there indoctrination devices built into the base? Does the base itself have any kind of awareness? Sounds stupid, but so does the idea of ancient, giant sentient machines bent on wiping out all life. What influence could such an awareness have? At the risk of sounding like Batman, there are just... too many questions. So **** you Mr Nigma.

#23
mopotter

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No I would still have destroyed it. I don't totally trust anyone with that kind of power.

#24
Guest_Shandepared_*

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Pacifien wrote...

Shepard has no obligation to be loyal to Cerberus just because they helped him. That was their choice. They can view it as their mistake if Shepard doesn't do everything they demand.


I don't think that was his point. He isn't saying Shepard is obligated by a sense of honor to give anything to Cerberus, he's saying that Shepard is foolish to blow them off at the end. To date Cerberus is the only faction that has truly devoted their cause and resources towards helping Shepard stop the Reapers. When you cast them aside at the end you've turned your back on the one faction in the galaxy that has recognized the Reaper threat.

Modifié par Shandepared, 12 juillet 2010 - 05:51 .


#25
smudboy

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mopotter wrote...

No I would still have destroyed it. I don't totally trust anyone with that kind of power.


I'm sort of curious: what kind of power would that be?  The power to liquify people?