122 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

I wouldn't hand the Collector base to Cerberus or the Alliance. They are each problematic, though at least Cerberus isn't rendered ineffective by bureaucracy and politics. The Illusive Man's leadership style at least ensures that things get done. The Alliance can't move with the same agility or singularity of purpose. Unfortunately the Illusive Man's true motives are impossible to discern, so giving him the base is very risky. I wiped out a few too many Thorian creepers, enslaved Rachni, etc. to trust Cerberus, not to mention that business on Pragia and the Overlord project. The Illusive Man's "I didn't know it was happening" schtick is rather disingenuous to me, he sure seems to know EVERYTHING else. He probably even knows who the Shadow Broker is.

[Nightwriter]

Neither choice is perfect, but the Alliance (or Council) are the lesser of two evils, in comparison to Cerberus.

[lovgreno]

It's not so much about good VS evil for me, more like big, competent and resourcefull VS small and incompetent. Council wins that one if there is a choice. Alliance should be better than Cerberus but it seems like the Cerberus influence is a bit too strong in the Alliance.

[Asheer_Khan]

Sorry but all what Timmy can get from my Shepard is Cain bullet in his forehead...

I just finished Redemption 1 comic (whit Liara's quest to bring back Shepard's body) and i noticed something really strange.

Above Omega's orbit stationed couple Cerberus ships and like Miranda pointed it would take brief moment to stop Tazzic ship and recover Shep's body but Timmy gave her direct order to NOT interfere...

This was little risky action IF Shepard was really so valuable for him as he claimed at the inrto of ME 2 because there was no guarantee that Liara will succeed... hell they could easy intercept whole operation of handing over body from Blue Suns to Shadow Broker agent but they didn't moved even a small finger in left shoe to stop them...

No, Timmy need Shepard for only one thing... to gain access to C-Base but at the end he overestimated his "charm skill" and base ends inside black hole where she belong...

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 12 juillet 2010 - 11:43 .

[DaBigDragon]

I would still destroy it. That technology is way too powerful and an abomination to expect anyone or any organization to use it responsibly. Cerberus has its' claws in every legit organization anyway, including the Alliance, so giving it to the Alliance would turn out to be just as bad as giving it to Cerberus.

[mosor]

I almost always save the base, but between the council, alliance or Cerberus, my first choice would be cerberus and then the alliance .

[BurningArmor]

Would I give the Collector Base to the Alliance?
- No.  "Alliance" is way too general a term even if I considered keeping the station around a viable option.

Would I give the Collector space station to the Council?
- Udina's council would be not just no, but He!! no!
- The paragon council - It would have been fun to have Shepard talk over a video connection to the paragon council while Shepard was loading the explosives in the node to destroy the Collector Base.  Let the council see a little of what was really happening.  I hope Shepard  got some good video while Shepard was in there in either case.

My feeling is destroying the Cllector Base was for the best for the following reasons:
1.)  How many human colonists died on that thing?  A little justice was in order for closure.
2.)  Could we be sure there wasn't another Collector or Reaper Base just waiting for the chance to send in troops to take the base back? 
3.)  Indoctrination - There is still no defense against it.  Harbinger could clearly turn that on and off both remotely, and at will.  If a team was left aboard, who would they really be working for in a week?
4.)  If Humanity got by 1 through 3, do we actually have the wisdom to use it?  The Mad Prophet's fear of man being the hands of the Reapers could be well founded if the owners of the base began building Reapers with it.
5.)  If the large numbers of Reapers the enemy has is true, and someone is actually willing to committe genocide to build one or two of these Reapers, the best we could hope for in "our" Reapers is a diversionary force. 

I think the final battle will be Shepard's team boarding Harbinger's ship or base to kill Harbinger and destroy that facility.  If there is nobody left to power them back up, then the Reapers are not a threat floating around in Dark space. 

Sorry for perhaps getting a little off topic there. 

Modifié par BurningArmor, 13 juillet 2010 - 01:34 .

[Netzach]

Cerberus is humanity, so Cerberus is the Alliance.

[lovgreno]

kanuvis wrote...

Cerberus is humanity, so Cerberus is the Alliance.

In TIMmys own little world it certanly is.

[Orion1836]

After watching a plot analysis of ME2, I feel that the end choice just didn't make sense. It's wrong to give the base to Cerberus, but it's also wrong to blow up such a valuable source of intel on the Reapers (not to mention PROOF about their existence). There should have been a Paragon option to pulse the base, and then hold the fort until the Council military could arrive (if need be, Shepard could have held off Cerberus forces in the Normandy).



Recordings of the derelict Reaper might not have been enough to convince the council, but Anderson could have at least used that to convince the Alliance to standby outside the relay, waiting for Shepard's call. Hackett and the 5th Fleet could have secured the base in time for the Council to finally be brought in and convinced.



Blowing up the base should have been the "neutral" (and stupid) option.

[Netzach]

lovgreno wrote...

kanuvis wrote...

Cerberus is humanity, so Cerberus is the Alliance.

In TIMmys own little world it certanly is.

Little world or not, he has resources and he is going to make his own reaper. That deserves some respect i think.

[lovgreno]

kanuvis wrote...
Little world or not, he has resources and he is going to make his own reaper. That deserves some respect i think.

I don't know if respect is the right word or not but he can certanly get things done. If those things are good or bad is at best unclear though. But now we are getting of topic.

[angj57]

The Alliance is on the Council, so giving the base to the Alliance would be giving it to the Council. So the answer would be a big no, because the Council are, in my opinion, pretty worthless. They are overcautious, pompous, and their refusal to ever do anything for human colonies in the Terminus Systems suggests to me that they have a strong anti-human bias.

Cerberus certainly has a certain hubris about them, thinking they can master Reaper technology, control husks, etc etc. I also think, in the long run, their agenda is bad for humanity, because humanity is not strong enough to control the galaxy without allies. But as far as the short term war with the Reapers, I would trust Cerberus to make use of the station, its technology, and its intel more than I would trust the Alliance.

In the end I just blew it up. Reaper technology is extremely dangerous, we've seen that... well... every time we've ever fought husks.

smudboy wrote...

I'm sort of curious: what kind of power would that be?  The power to liquify people?

It's specified quite clearly in the game that it takes highly advanced technology to maintain a station in the galactic core. As usual, people who strongly dislike the game seem to have not paid a whole lot of attention to it.

Modifié par angj57, 13 juillet 2010 - 02:34 .

[SandTrout]

Actually, Orion neither the Council nor the Alliance would send a fleet to be on standby at the Omega 4 relay. Remember that this is in the terminus systems where the Citadel races have no authority, and a fleet from the Citadel would cause the warring factions to unify and essentially start a war, which no one wants, especially if you're trying to prepare the galaxy from the Reaper threat. Throughout the game, we have no interference, or support, from 'legitimate' sources because 99% of our operations are in the Terminus. Cerberus is the closest thing with have to a representative for humanity in these territories, so it actually makes sense that failing to destroy it would result in Cerberus claiming it anyways, regardless of weather we told the Council or Alliance about it.

[Cypher0020]

As much as I'd like to give it to them....I know if i gave it to the Alliance it'd probably blow up in my face



- countless lesser beings would be indoctrinated



- the Council probably would too....



- some scientist would probably hit the wrong button and alert Reapers early



- Cerberus agents are probably in the Alliance just waiting to tell ol' Timmy what Shepard has done....and steal the base intel back....



Nope. The base goes kaboom every single time.



Plus, when even Jack says the base was better destroyed, you know it was the right thing...

[CROAT_56]

Cypher0020 wrote...
.
Plus, when even Jack says the base was better destroyed, you know it was the right thing...

agreed

[NanQuan]

Mass Effect, as a story, is about molding one's own destiny (both individuals and entire species). We see that in how the player can shape shepard into an avatar for themselves, and this theme runs through the entire story. The lesson Mass Effect tries to teach the player is that allowing someone or something else to shape your destiny is dangerous.

That being said, I think the best option is to destroy the base. There is no question of who should get it. I never paused for a second when thinking about the choice TIM gave me. It was never a matter of whether I trusted TIM or Cerberus. That never crossed my mind. I was more concerned with the overarching themes of the Mass Effect story.

When you first meet Soveriegn, it tells you that civilization has grown along the Reaper's desired path because we relied on the technology of the mass relays. Legion also tells you how there are many paths to the same end, but taking someone else's path blinds you to alternatives. The heretics chose the path of the Old Machines and were doomed because of it (the reapers would not spare them in the apocalypse, just use them). These lessons should not be ignored, I think.  If you kept the base and developed technology based off of it, then you are playing into the Reaper's hands.

The big question for survival is how to differentiate ourselves from the countless civilizations that were destroyed before. What will make us different? All the civilizations before would have likely kept the base and used it in the fight against the Reapers. By rejecting this technology we refuse to develop along the path the Reapers desire. We strike a path that is different from all the others and stand a hope at survival.

Modifié par NanQuan, 13 juillet 2010 - 04:35 .

[faction699]

Yes.  I trust the Alliance, I don't trust Cerberus.  You have two very good friends high up in the alliance (Admiral Hackett/Captain Anderson) so there's really no reason not to trust them.   For comparison, the only person you know high up in Cerberus tells you giving it to the Illusive Man would be a bad idea.

[Massadonious1]

I would keep it for myself, glean any type of technology I can without turning my own kind into slushies, then I would blow it up.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 13 juillet 2010 - 04:51 .

[CROAT_56]

NanQuan wrote...

Mass Effect, as a story, is about molding one's own destiny (both individuals and entire species). We see that in how the player can shape shepard into an avatar for themselves, and this theme runs through the entire story. The lesson Mass Effect tries to teach the player is that allowing someone or something else to shape your destiny is dangerous.

That being said, I think the best option is to destroy the base. There is no question of who should get it. I never paused for a second when thinking about the choice TIM gave me. It was never a matter of whether I trusted TIM or Cerberus. That never crossed my mind. I was more concerned with the overarching themes of the Mass Effect story.

When you first meet Soveriegn, it tells you that civilization has grown along the Reaper's desired path because we relied on the technology of the mass relays. Legion also tells you how there are many paths to the same end, but taking someone else's path blinds you to alternatives. The heretics chose the path of the Old Machines and were doomed because of it (the reapers would not spare them in the apocalypse, just use them). These lessons should not be ignored, I think.  If you kept the base and developed technology based off of it, then you are playing into the Reaper's hands.

The big question for survival is how to differentiate ourselves from the countless civilizations that were destroyed before. What will make us different? All the civilizations before would have likely kept the base and used it in the fight against the Reapers. By rejecting this technology we refuse to develop along the path the Reapers desire. We strike a path that is different from all the others and stand a hope at survival.

This is what i was trying to say only you said it much better haha.  we must make our own path to the destruction of the Reapers.  a few things we have that past civilizations did not

1.  The Reapers lost the surprise attack card so we know they are comming.
2.  The past Civs were cut off from each other because the Citadel was taken first, we have control of the Citadel leaving us a unified galexy.
3.  Spectre Shep has contacts both i Citadel space and in the Terminus systems allowing a unification
4.  We have the Normandy
all in all we have a lot more then most past Civs had.

[Iakus]

Massadonious1 wrote...

I would keep it for mysef, glean any type of technology I can without turning my own kind into slushies, then I would blow it up.

That's actually not a bad idea, if you could keep Reaper IFFs out of te hands of others

[NanQuan]

CROAT_56 wrote...

NanQuan wrote...

Mass Effect, as a story, is about molding one's own destiny (both individuals and entire species). We see that in how the player can shape shepard into an avatar for themselves, and this theme runs through the entire story. The lesson Mass Effect tries to teach the player is that allowing someone or something else to shape your destiny is dangerous.

That being said, I think the best option is to destroy the base. There is no question of who should get it. I never paused for a second when thinking about the choice TIM gave me. It was never a matter of whether I trusted TIM or Cerberus. That never crossed my mind. I was more concerned with the overarching themes of the Mass Effect story.

When you first meet Soveriegn, it tells you that civilization has grown along the Reaper's desired path because we relied on the technology of the mass relays. Legion also tells you how there are many paths to the same end, but taking someone else's path blinds you to alternatives. The heretics chose the path of the Old Machines and were doomed because of it (the reapers would not spare them in the apocalypse, just use them). These lessons should not be ignored, I think.  If you kept the base and developed technology based off of it, then you are playing into the Reaper's hands.

The big question for survival is how to differentiate ourselves from the countless civilizations that were destroyed before. What will make us different? All the civilizations before would have likely kept the base and used it in the fight against the Reapers. By rejecting this technology we refuse to develop along the path the Reapers desire. We strike a path that is different from all the others and stand a hope at survival.

This is what i was trying to say only you said it much better haha.  we must make our own path to the destruction of the Reapers.  a few things we have that past civilizations did not

1.  The Reapers lost the surprise attack card so we know they are comming.
2.  The past Civs were cut off from each other because the Citadel was taken first, we have control of the Citadel leaving us a unified galexy.
3.  Spectre Shep has contacts both i Citadel space and in the Terminus systems allowing a unification
4.  We have the Normandy
all in all we have a lot more then most past Civs had.

Yes, I think you were the first to say it actually, and I noticed that I just thought I'd elaborate and put in my two cents on the topic. I agree with the advantages you pointed out; I also think that diversity will be a major advantage in ME3. As far as I can tell there was only one major species in the Prothean era, or at the very least the species did not work together. Shepard uniting all the species under one banner will also be a major theme I think.

[CROAT_56]

the only other civ that came close was the one that damaged/killed the reaper with the mega weapon no one can find and evan they did not win. I think if we can get the council to stop playing dumb and get the terminus systems to see eye to eye with the citadel we have a really good chance of winning this war.



100-300 Reapers i am gonna guess since we have no idea at this time

tens of billions of sentient beings (Asari, Turian, Krogan, Human, Solarian, Volus, Quarian, Geth, Hanar, Drell, Rachni, Batarian, Vorcha, and Raloi not to mention possible newbies for ME3 i think we outnumber these things unified

[J4N3_M3]

NanQuan wrote...

CROAT_56 wrote...

NanQuan wrote...

Mass Effect, as a story, is about molding one's own destiny (both individuals and entire species). We see that in how the player can shape shepard into an avatar for themselves, and this theme runs through the entire story. The lesson Mass Effect tries to teach the player is that allowing someone or something else to shape your destiny is dangerous.

That being said, I think the best option is to destroy the base. There is no question of who should get it. I never paused for a second when thinking about the choice TIM gave me. It was never a matter of whether I trusted TIM or Cerberus. That never crossed my mind. I was more concerned with the overarching themes of the Mass Effect story.

When you first meet Soveriegn, it tells you that civilization has grown along the Reaper's desired path because we relied on the technology of the mass relays. Legion also tells you how there are many paths to the same end, but taking someone else's path blinds you to alternatives. The heretics chose the path of the Old Machines and were doomed because of it (the reapers would not spare them in the apocalypse, just use them). These lessons should not be ignored, I think.  If you kept the base and developed technology based off of it, then you are playing into the Reaper's hands.

The big question for survival is how to differentiate ourselves from the countless civilizations that were destroyed before. What will make us different? All the civilizations before would have likely kept the base and used it in the fight against the Reapers. By rejecting this technology we refuse to develop along the path the Reapers desire. We strike a path that is different from all the others and stand a hope at survival.

This is what i was trying to say only you said it much better haha.  we must make our own path to the destruction of the Reapers.  a few things we have that past civilizations did not

1.  The Reapers lost the surprise attack card so we know they are comming.
2.  The past Civs were cut off from each other because the Citadel was taken first, we have control of the Citadel leaving us a unified galexy.
3.  Spectre Shep has contacts both i Citadel space and in the Terminus systems allowing a unification
4.  We have the Normandy
all in all we have a lot more then most past Civs had.

Yes, I think you were the first to say it actually, and I noticed that I just thought I'd elaborate and put in my two cents on the topic. I agree with the advantages you pointed out; I also think that diversity will be a major advantage in ME3. As far as I can tell there was only one major species in the Prothean era, or at the very least the species did not work together. Shepard uniting all the species under one banner will also be a major theme I think.

I fully agree with what both of you said plus the "uniting all the species under one banner" thing! I see it like that too. I would have never given the base to anyone. I would always destroy it. It just feels like the right thing to do! 

Also, I do believe, that Shepard's interference with the Reapers and Collectors in both games, will bring the war directly to the local cluster in ME3. I think, that in the beginning, the Reapers didn't pay much attention to the humans for they were the "newbies" in the galaxy and all but after everything Shep has done and achieved, I do believe, that this has changed, and that they will go straight for Earth first, which is where Shepard will have to unite ALL other species to stop them.

[FROST4584]

Yes I would, but since that isn't a option I always hand it over to Cerberus. A group that is trying to do something about the Reaper invasion.