69 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

If they could combine the 24 hour day/night cycle and a random weather cycle, we'd be straight up made.



It WOULD make the atmospheres better. But I doubt we'll get either, as cool as it sounds, since its all optional and there's more important stuff to worry about.



I trust them though. They could handle it if they tried hard enough.

[paranoid_marv]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

If it's the same engine? I highly doubt it is going to happen if it indeed is.

I don't even think it's currently possible in the DA:O engine, atleast without being a pain in the ass.

Hypothetically you could make say 8 versions of an area with different lighting conditions, and that each time the player goes through an area transition the game will load the next "version". So if you're currently at the second version, when you go through an area transition you'd be at the 3rd version.

The problem is that the Lighting in engine is rendered before you get in game, while some "dynamic" lights are used that render in real time in the game most of the lights are baked into the level. (Similar to how engines like Source of Quake 3 handle most of the level lighting)

Heh, 8 sounds like a bit much, unless there was something you were getting at.

If the engine can't handle a constant cycle then simply adding day and night to cities and camps sounds like a reasonable compromise. Depending on how it's done, it could add to the atmosphere as well as allowing for day and night missions and events.

[LPPrince]

paranoid_marv wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

If it's the same engine? I highly doubt it is going to happen if it indeed is.

I don't even think it's currently possible in the DA:O engine, atleast without being a pain in the ass.

Hypothetically you could make say 8 versions of an area with different lighting conditions, and that each time the player goes through an area transition the game will load the next "version". So if you're currently at the second version, when you go through an area transition you'd be at the 3rd version.

The problem is that the Lighting in engine is rendered before you get in game, while some "dynamic" lights are used that render in real time in the game most of the lights are baked into the level. (Similar to how engines like Source of Quake 3 handle most of the level lighting)

Heh, 8 sounds like a bit much, unless there was something you were getting at.

If the engine can't handle a constant cycle then simply adding day and night to cities and camps sounds like a reasonable compromise. Depending on how it's done, it could add to the atmosphere as well as allowing for day and night missions and events.

I want more night missions to be honest.

Ostagar at night with the pyres keeping people warm? AWESOME.

The Redcliffe attack? SWEET.

ME WANT MORE.

[KLUME777]

If there was a day/night system, it wouldn't necessarily be cool, because Bioware wouldn't be able to set up a cool atmosphere in a level.



Imagine being outside the Circle Mages Tower and it was a bright, sunny, happy-tastic, joy-filled day. Not so spooky now, and that takes away from atmosphere

[LPPrince]

KLUME777 wrote...

If there was a day/night system, it wouldn't necessarily be cool, because Bioware wouldn't be able to set up a cool atmosphere in a level.

Imagine being outside the Circle Mages Tower and it was a bright, sunny, happy-tastic, joy-filled day. Not so spooky now, and that takes away from atmosphere

That's why it depends on the level. They can script it so its DEFINITELY a specific time of day for certain battles/mission, hence Ostagar at night and Redcliffe's battle.

[Vulee94]

Will not happen. Engine restrictions.

[KLUME777]

LPPrince wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

If there was a day/night system, it wouldn't necessarily be cool, because Bioware wouldn't be able to set up a cool atmosphere in a level.

Imagine being outside the Circle Mages Tower and it was a bright, sunny, happy-tastic, joy-filled day. Not so spooky now, and that takes away from atmosphere

That's why it depends on the level. They can script it so its DEFINITELY a specific time of day for certain battles/mission, hence Ostagar at night and Redcliffe's battle.

Then whats the point of having such a complicated system that requires so much time and effort to create, time that COULD be used to make better graphics, levels etc, if its only for a few, random areas that arent important.

[LPPrince]

KLUME777 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

If there was a day/night system, it wouldn't necessarily be cool, because Bioware wouldn't be able to set up a cool atmosphere in a level.

Imagine being outside the Circle Mages Tower and it was a bright, sunny, happy-tastic, joy-filled day. Not so spooky now, and that takes away from atmosphere

That's why it depends on the level. They can script it so its DEFINITELY a specific time of day for certain battles/mission, hence Ostagar at night and Redcliffe's battle.

Then whats the point of having such a complicated system that requires so much time and effort to create, time that COULD be used to make better graphics, levels etc, if its only for a few, random areas that arent important.

Adds to the atmosphere. But again, its probably a definite NO thanks to the engine.

[KLUME777]

LPPrince wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

If there was a day/night system, it wouldn't necessarily be cool, because Bioware wouldn't be able to set up a cool atmosphere in a level.

Imagine being outside the Circle Mages Tower and it was a bright, sunny, happy-tastic, joy-filled day. Not so spooky now, and that takes away from atmosphere

That's why it depends on the level. They can script it so its DEFINITELY a specific time of day for certain battles/mission, hence Ostagar at night and Redcliffe's battle.

Then whats the point of having such a complicated system that requires so much time and effort to create, time that COULD be used to make better graphics, levels etc, if its only for a few, random areas that arent important.

Adds to the atmosphere. But again, its probably a definite NO thanks to the engine.

I just said it DOESNT add to the atmosphere, read my post, and bioware knows this, which is why they have never done it, and never will. (apart from Baldurs gate, which they stopped). Its not just engine problems.

[dan107]

I think that having a day/night cycle and dynamic weather goes a longer way towards creating the illusion of a real, living, breathing world than any other single system. A dynamic NPC schedule would help in competing the effect. The Witcher is an excellent example of how to do this properly.

AlanC9 wrote...

Nah -- tying the game clock to real time ruins pacing. Redcliffe wouldn't have worked with a clock.

It wouldn't ruin pacing if the missions were designed with it in mind. Redcliffe would've been even more intense with the time limit IMO. You get there in the morning, have the day to make preparations, and then ready or not, here they come. Would've been even better if you didn't have enough time to make everything perfect, so you would've had to make strategic choices over which defenses to emphasize and what to ignore.

Modifié par dan107, 13 juillet 2010 - 07:29 .

[LPPrince]

KLUME777 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

If there was a day/night system, it wouldn't necessarily be cool, because Bioware wouldn't be able to set up a cool atmosphere in a level.

Imagine being outside the Circle Mages Tower and it was a bright, sunny, happy-tastic, joy-filled day. Not so spooky now, and that takes away from atmosphere

That's why it depends on the level. They can script it so its DEFINITELY a specific time of day for certain battles/mission, hence Ostagar at night and Redcliffe's battle.

Then whats the point of having such a complicated system that requires so much time and effort to create, time that COULD be used to make better graphics, levels etc, if its only for a few, random areas that arent important.

Adds to the atmosphere. But again, its probably a definite NO thanks to the engine.

I just said it DOESNT add to the atmosphere, read my post, and bioware knows this, which is why they have never done it, and never will. (apart from Baldurs gate, which they stopped). Its not just engine problems.

How would it not? Every time we went to the Denerim Market, or say Haven, Redcliffe, etc etc it would work.

When we're indoors for all of it(Circle Tower), or a major event is occurring outdoors(Redcliffe and Ostagar battles), THEN we'd need it scripted(Redcliffe/Ostagar) or it wouldn't matter(Circle Tower).

[KLUME777]

LPPrince wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

If there was a day/night system, it wouldn't necessarily be cool, because Bioware wouldn't be able to set up a cool atmosphere in a level.

Imagine being outside the Circle Mages Tower and it was a bright, sunny, happy-tastic, joy-filled day. Not so spooky now, and that takes away from atmosphere

That's why it depends on the level. They can script it so its DEFINITELY a specific time of day for certain battles/mission, hence Ostagar at night and Redcliffe's battle.

Then whats the point of having such a complicated system that requires so much time and effort to create, time that COULD be used to make better graphics, levels etc, if its only for a few, random areas that arent important.

Adds to the atmosphere. But again, its probably a definite NO thanks to the engine.

I just said it DOESNT add to the atmosphere, read my post, and bioware knows this, which is why they have never done it, and never will. (apart from Baldurs gate, which they stopped). Its not just engine problems.

How would it not? Every time we went to the Denerim Market, or say Haven, Redcliffe, etc etc it would work.

When we're indoors for all of it(Circle Tower), or a major event is occurring outdoors(Redcliffe and Ostagar battles), THEN we'd need it scripted(Redcliffe/Ostagar) or it wouldn't matter(Circle Tower).

As i said, TOO MUCH WORK for a complicated system thats only useful when you need to go to denerim for some odd sidequest. Honestly, i didnt even notice it, if you want it that bad, go play Oblivion or Fallout 3...

[TheMadCat]

I think that having a day/night cycle and dynamic weather goes a longer
way towards creating the illusion of a real, living, breathing world
than any other single system. A dynamic NPC schedule would help in
competing the effect. The Witcher is an excellent example of how to do
this properly.

Except that's not what BioWare is trying to create. They're trying to create an epic tale not a living world. They constrict you and the game world as much as possible because it lends aid to their ability to portray the story.

[LPPrince]

KLUME777 wrote...

As i said, TOO MUCH WORK for a complicated system thats only useful when you need to go to denerim for some odd sidequest. Honestly, i didnt even notice it, if you want it that bad, go play Oblivion or Fallout 3...

If they can do the work, I'm all for it. I spent a lot of time in these areas, and a day/night 24 hr cycle would've been AMAZING, immersion and quality wise.

[dan107]

TheMadCat wrote...
Except that's not what BioWare is trying to create. They're trying to create an epic tale not a living world. They constrict you and the game world as much as possible because it lends aid to their ability to portray the story.

A living world as a background makes an epic story that much more epic. The Witcher had an excellent story, and a very linear one to boot, but somehow it still felt like a world that one could get lost in. DA on the other hand felt more like a succession of static levels to me. Even Denerim, the supposed metropolis, felt shallow and lifeless, always exactly the same whenever you visited.

Modifié par dan107, 13 juillet 2010 - 07:48 .

[AlanC9]

dan107 wrote...


It wouldn't ruin pacing if the missions were designed with it in mind. Redcliffe would've been even more intense with the time limit IMO. You get there in the morning, have the day to make preparations, and then ready or not, here they come. Would've been even better if you didn't have enough time to make everything perfect, so you would've had to make strategic choices over which defenses to emphasize and what to ignore.

Sure, you can design around having a clock. You can design around anything. Actually, I wouldn't mind at all if missions were timed like that, but I think most players these days are too weak to handle it. Let me amend my position, then; clocks are fine if you've got the guts to really use them.  (Or if the situation gives total initiative to the player's side, but that's not likely to happen in a Bio game; IIRC this is how The Witcher handles the problems)

You'd still have to turn the clock off for something like the Tower of Ishal sequence  -- you can't let the player fail the mission because it would screw up the narrative if the defeat at Ostagar really is the player's fault.

Modifié par AlanC9, 13 juillet 2010 - 09:00 .

[joriandrake]

KLUME777 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

If there was a day/night system, it wouldn't necessarily be cool, because Bioware wouldn't be able to set up a cool atmosphere in a level.

Imagine being outside the Circle Mages Tower and it was a bright, sunny, happy-tastic, joy-filled day. Not so spooky now, and that takes away from atmosphere

That's why it depends on the level. They can script it so its DEFINITELY a specific time of day for certain battles/mission, hence Ostagar at night and Redcliffe's battle.

Then whats the point of having such a complicated system that requires so much time and effort to create, time that COULD be used to make better graphics, levels etc, if its only for a few, random areas that arent important.

uh, even with the old NWN1 this was possible

[AlanC9]

NWN had a lighting engine that was built for that. Bio didn't think it was worth building that capability into later games, so they haven't done it.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

paranoid_marv wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

If it's the same engine? I highly doubt it is going to happen if it indeed is.

I don't even think it's currently possible in the DA:O engine, atleast without being a pain in the ass.

Hypothetically you could make say 8 versions of an area with different lighting conditions, and that each time the player goes through an area transition the game will load the next "version". So if you're currently at the second version, when you go through an area transition you'd be at the 3rd version.

The problem is that the Lighting in engine is rendered before you get in game, while some "dynamic" lights are used that render in real time in the game most of the lights are baked into the level. (Similar to how engines like Source of Quake 3 handle most of the level lighting)

Heh, 8 sounds like a bit much, unless there was something you were getting at.

If the engine can't handle a constant cycle then simply adding day and night to cities and camps sounds like a reasonable compromise. Depending on how it's done, it could add to the atmosphere as well as allowing for day and night missions and events.

I dunno I'd consider 8 to be the bare minimum. 4 for the main lighting conditions (Dawn, Midday, Dusk, Night) and then 4 transitional ones to bridge the gap a bit.

[Paromlin]

AlanC9 wrote...

Paromlin, if you want to get banned you'll have to report yourself. I'm certainly not going to do it. And ranting about me is OK since I'm reading the thread, but if you're going to rant at LPPrince at least have the decency to PM her so you're not talking behind her back. Seriously, dude, that shows no class.

As for the substance... you're not including me in the BG nostalgia crowd, are you? I think BG's way overrated, actually.

Oh, the rant about you was "This" long. I was really not ranting specifically about you. You were just a quick example of compulsive anti-criticism behaviour. I know it's your prerogative and you're at least trying to argument your claims (mostly), but is it really needed to constantly voice your anti-opinion... People sometimes want to express an opinion without you or someone else jumping on their backs asking 1000 lets-analyze-your-preference! questions - why, where, what other game, if, when, how much, how many etc. It's futile.
I did not include you in the BG "nostalgia?" (haven't I emphasised it's not nostalgia?) crowd. Why would I?

Buddy, I was not talking behind her/his back, Lpprice frenetically scouts the forum in search of devs to quote so s/he'll be here in a matter of seconds, and you know that... oh, Lpprince, hi. 'Sup?

Yes, yes, Lp, you're *very* respectful, ((thoughtful)), and appreciative, even too much so, when in dev's poodle mode. When not in poodle mode, and someone is criticizing your bioware, you become a passive-aggressive chihuahua. Nothing's wrong with loving your favourite developer(s), but this duality is very annoying.

***

Sorry thread starter for the off-topic part; I am all for having the planet, that Thedas is part of, rotating around its axis thus having a day/night cycle. Why? Because it's BETTER, take that nay sayers.
Maybe this planet doesn't rotate around its axis, but I think it's all about Bioware going cheap on it and/or pushing their movie agenda. A movie has all set in stone, right? The lighting, part of the day a certain scene starts etc.

With dinamic lighting you have a more replayable game (if you wish to replay it in the first place) - because you may want to see different sceneries at night/day, dawn/dusk.. "Oh, I'd love to adventure in that wood at night and have forgot to do so on this playthrough, I'm curious how it looks like."