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[ejoslin]

adneate wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

The toughest one for me, still, is the desire demon and the templar in the circle tower. I have no clue what's right and wrong there. I generally let them go. He's happy for the first time in his life.

But you gave him to a demon who will suck him dry like a leech and that happiness is a cruel painful illusion! Killing him is merciful, rather than leaving him to live as a slave in body and mind.

But he had had such a miserable life, and he actually was happy.  I think he'd rather live that happiness than die.  The illusion is not cruel or painful.  He is a slave, and he is being sucked dry, but he is happy, and it's actually what he wants. I don't think anyone who is as happy as he is, and will remain that way, would actually choose death for himself.

Bleh, it's a difficult one for me for sure.  The times I do kill them, I just burst into the room all "Demon DIE!"

[adneate]

ejoslin wrote...

But he had had such a miserable life, and he actually was happy.  I think he'd rather live that happiness than die.  The illusion is not cruel or painful.  He is a slave, and he is being sucked dry, but he is happy, and it's actually what he wants. I don't think anyone who is as happy as he is, and will remain that way, would actually choose death for himself.

It's a bit like Plato's allegory of the cave. He's tied to a wall in chains and shackes starring at a blank wall in front of him and periodically someone will hold an object against a fire that is burning behind him, a bit like a movie theater. He does not see the shadows for what they are and plays a game of guessing which shadow is going to come next. Is an existance based totally on lies and illusions happiness? If you were there with them you would be happy as well, knowing nothing else and playing the same game as all the others. However if you were to be focefully dragged from the cave and placed under the sun, the true source of light unlike the false one of the cave fire, and saw the real world for the first time. It would be painful and frightening but the real world offers so much more than the illusion ever could, comparing the cave to the earth would not the existence in the cave seem cruel and inhuman? After knowing this truth would you ever go back to the cave? Would you try to help the other captives even knowing they were blissful in their ignorance and the transition was painful and unpleasant?

[phaonica]

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

The only regret I had was telling Alistair to kill Loghain. I had no idea Alistair would do it; I was thinking he was going to do what he did with Zevran. What is funny is that I was standing there thinking everything would go my way... then the blood. Since I didn't save before, I had to finish my whole playthrough wishing I could kill Alistair. To put insult to injury, I didn't harden Alistair, so he came into the room screaming at me--"How dare you put me on the throne." It was the idiot's decision to ascend to the throne for revenge. I have never felt so angry at a virtual character in my entire life...

Yours is one of my favorite player stories. The same story plays out for us all and yet we can experience it completely different from each other.

[Hyper Cutter]

Nailing Gheyna. The way she reacts afterwards sorta made me uneasy.



Also, killing Witherfang and letting Zathrian live so I could get that sweet griffin axe that you can only get if Zathrian survives for some reason...

[CalJones]

As with the OP, I felt *horrible* for executing Loghain on my first playthrough. Alistair be damned, I couldn't bring myself to do it again and also deleted that playthrough once I'd finished it.



Never had a problem sacrificing Isolde - it was her idea, and her stupidity that resulted in Connor becoming an abomination and lots of villagers dying. I see it as giving her the chance to redeem herself.

[Avilia]

The Dark Ritual. Nearly every playthrough since my first I don't do it. I don't trust Morrigan's motives at all.

I took it on my first and hated having to convince Alistair to do it.  Something about it just leaves a bad taste in  my mouth.

With so many grey areas in this game its odd that's the one I always think 'yuck' about.

Modifié par Avilia, 13 juillet 2010 - 11:34 .

[Sarah1281]

adneate wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

But he had had such a miserable life, and he actually was happy.  I think he'd rather live that happiness than die.  The illusion is not cruel or painful.  He is a slave, and he is being sucked dry, but he is happy, and it's actually what he wants. I don't think anyone who is as happy as he is, and will remain that way, would actually choose death for himself.

It's a bit like Plato's allegory of the cave. He's tied to a wall in chains and shackes starring at a blank wall in front of him and periodically someone will hold an object against a fire that is burning behind him, a bit like a movie theater. He does not see the shadows for what they are and plays a game of guessing which shadow is going to come next. Is an existance based totally on lies and illusions happiness? If you were there with them you would be happy as well, knowing nothing else and playing the same game as all the others. However if you were to be focefully dragged from the cave and placed under the sun, the true source of light unlike the false one of the cave fire, and saw the real world for the first time. It would be painful and frightening but the real world offers so much more than the illusion ever could, comparing the cave to the earth would not the existence in the cave seem cruel and inhuman? After knowing this truth would you ever go back to the cave? Would you try to help the other captives even knowing they were blissful in their ignorance and the transition was painful and unpleasant?

I'm not sure how that story factors in at all. You cannot free him from the illusion and he dies still ensnared no matter what you do. He feels happiness so therefore he is happy. Whether you think his happiness is worth allowing him to be enslaved until he dies can vary, of course. Still, he will NEVER realize that this is an illusion (she has mind control powers that have made him forget that he's a Templar that has no children, after all) and after his death is the only time he may realize what happened and even that isn't a guarentee. He will die anyway so you get to choose if it will be so quickly and 'defending his wife and children from bandits' or after a 'long life with his loving family.'

[CalJones]

The difference is that you can prevent that particular daemon from enslaving another.

[Sarah1281]

CalJones wrote...

The difference is that you can prevent that particular daemon from enslaving another.

Can you? What happens to demons that die in the real world? It seems like they would just go back to the Fade but I don't think we have confirmation on it one way or the other.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The most distasteful decision for me was executing Alistair. I do not regret it in the slightest, but I hate it when I am backed to a corner, which was the case in this decision both in-game and out. Had I the option, I would have imprisonned him and tried to reason with him more; literraly slap some sense into him if necessary. But alas, the only option I had was either execute a deserter or let him go. I could not afford to pick the 2nd one.

[ejoslin]

Sarah1281 wrote...

CalJones wrote...

The difference is that you can prevent that particular daemon from enslaving another.

Can you? What happens to demons that die in the real world? It seems like they would just go back to the Fade but I don't think we have confirmation on it one way or the other.

This.

And I wonder if it truly is a bad thing for desire demons to make miserable people happy.  It would depend on the demon, of course.  The one that inhabited Conner was really bad.  The kitty one probably was as well.  But the one that was inhabiting the templar, no, I can't say she was.  She gave him happiness, and that is all. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

The sloth demon in the circle also tried to give us happiness. I didn't accept that for myself, so I didn't accept it for another. But yes, it does depend on perspective I guess and what people deem more important between free will and happiness.

[Ashaman X]

Probably the choice to execute Loghain. Honestly, I would have preferred to have shown him a chance to redeem himself over time, but Alistair's rage was just too much to deny. Alistair is my Warden's brother in an almost literal sense, they have become so tight since they met. I did the deed myself, but I know that no matter how close I was with Alistair, it would hurt him and Anora, and that she would never be able to truly forgive me for killing her father. Tough shades of grey there.



The only other part that gave me pause was Bhelen and Harrowmont. Bhelen has good ideas but I couldn't stand him as a person. Harrowmont is too traditional, but is a good person and would also bring stability to the dwarves. I also like to think that changing the ruling family would be a good thing. Alas, the end credits proved me quite wrong, but it's a choice I stand by.



The others were pretty easy. Save the Circle, use them to help Connor, middle ground with Zat and the Lady, destroy the Anvil and so on. I didn't like the fact that I couldn't talk to Leli about the DR, but I did it anyway, I felt responsible. Of course, should the outcome of that choice go bad, my Warden will do the right thing and track the kid down and kill it if need be. That is harsh, but he knew it would always be a possibility if he did the ritual.

[Creature 1]

I had to give Connor to the demon in exchange for blood magic. My wimpy mage just couldn't make the intimidate check. But that got me started writing my fanfic.

[RavenousBear]

There are a few choices that are tough for me on my playthroughs. It is going to be cliche, but here my toughest choices:

1.) Orzammar's King dilemma: two opposites in personality and in politics for the city. One is more honorable and is stuck with tradition and the other care less about morals and more about results with a bit of personal glory as a bonus.

2.) Loghain: he is your nemesis and ever since the disaster at Ostagar he has ordered assassins to kill you. He has made many errors as Regent; the one that I can never forgive him for is allowing Tevinter mages to enslave the elves in the Alienage. Yet after all he has done, it is hard for me to be his executioner at the Landsmeet. I have spared him once and have found his dialogue very interesting. He seems to take a "chill" pill after being removed as Regent; I believe he was relieved he was no longer in that position of power

3.) The DR: I am not thrilled of the idea of the OGB; it could be a complete disaster in which more harm could be brought on Thedas. Or it could be another redemption for an Old God that was corrupted by the Darkspawn. I found the US ending to be rather dull and felt like a jerk killing my warden in that game. Plus the fact I feel the Archdemon was "destined" to be killed by the Warden, I lean towards the DR, however with mixed feelings about how it will affect the world.

[Sarah1281]

My hardest one was probably what to do about the ashes. I didn't want to destroy such a powerful curative but strengthening the Chantry...not a good idea. Still, I really wanted dragon scale armor and killing Genitivi seemed wrong so I guess they'll get their sacred urn after all...

[Liliandra Nadiar]

My Dalish rogue left the ashes, killed the dragon and then followed up by killing Genitivi. Chantry's caused her people enough trouble as it was.



My DC warrior left Genitivi alive, but didn't think publicizing the Urn's location was a good idea, and left the fallout on Genitivi's head.

[Chuvvy]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The sloth demon in the circle also tried to give us happiness. I didn't accept that for myself, so I didn't accept it for another. But yes, it does depend on perspective I guess and what people deem more important between free will and happiness.

He did it poorly. We were going to be traveling story tellers. With a Duncan that's high on valium.

[Sarah1281]

Slidell505 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The sloth demon in the circle also tried to give us happiness. I didn't accept that for myself, so I didn't accept it for another. But yes, it does depend on perspective I guess and what people deem more important between free will and happiness.

He did it poorly. We were going to be traveling story tellers. With a Duncan that's high on valium.

They should have had that be Leliana's dream. She would have loved it.

[soignee]

murdering Loghain. ffffffffffffffff-

[Chuvvy]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The sloth demon in the circle also tried to give us happiness. I didn't accept that for myself, so I didn't accept it for another. But yes, it does depend on perspective I guess and what people deem more important between free will and happiness.

He did it poorly. We were going to be traveling story tellers. With a Duncan that's high on valium.

They should have had that be Leliana's dream. She would have loved it.

I think the Fade dream should have based on your origin. So you would have a different one with each of them. They could have made your dream longer and done something interesting.

[Fishy]

I'm to sexy for this thread i'm leaving.

[Sarah1281]

3. Dark Ritual. No way I was going to put up with that. I'd just talked to her for hours and turn her around

To what end? You don't need to convince her it's a bad idea (doubt that's possible) to not do it.

[Master Shiori]

Killing Connor.



No matter what kind of character I play I can never resort to killing children.



Also, the scene where you let Isolde do it is painful as hell. No mother should ever have to kill her own child to spare him the suffering...