16 réponses à ce sujet

[stylepoints]

Hopefully it isn't too late to bring something like this up, but I always felt something was lacking in DA:O, and that was the magic system. I just went back and played BG2 and a couple other IE games, and the complexity of their magic combat is really much better than what we get in DA.

Where is the Defense/Breach back and forth between mages? DA:O just involved throwing down some blood wound/fireball/firestorm and clearing out all opponents in the area. I just miss the sort of back and forth defense vs. spell breach gameplay that was around in BG2.

Is there any chance of having a more involved magic combat system for this one? Awakening even made it worse. They just tacked on a bunch of aoe non-friendly fire spells and called it a day.I'd love to see a bit of thought come back to some of the combat scenarios.

Where are the enemy mages that can instantly kill your party if they aren't prepared? Where are the "utility" spells like clairvoyance or knock. Or awesome fun spells like sequencers or simulacrum. Why no spells that feel truly powerful besides giant AOEs like storm of the century.

It seems to be a lack of creativity just from my POV. It would be great to get back some of the more fun spells that made being a mage feel more like a mind game than playing a pyro.

And I realize this isn't a DnD game, that doesn't mean it needs to be arcadey with regards to the combat. Even the "most difficult" opponent in the game, that guy in the back alleys, all it took was one mana clash and he's just a melee fighter. I'd much rather fight a lich in BG that actively defends himself from magical attacks and is capable of laying the hurt on.

Just something to think about

Modifié par stylepoints, 12 juillet 2010 - 07:01 .

[bzombo]

i didn't mind the magic system so much. i liked not having to memorize some spells and lose them as i cast them, or not have them at all because i did not memorize them. mages are already powerful enough. do they need more?

[Selerz]

You make some good points there!

[Kail Ashton]

stylepoints wrote...

Hopefully it isn't too late to bring something like this up

I'd say too early to even have a topic bout this yet, but just a hunch yeah?

[Gambient]

No. Mages are already overpowered.

[stylepoints]

It's not about powerful/not powerful. It's about having more to magic than a nukefest. You could easily tweak the power of the spells. I'm not saying go back to memorizing either, keep the mana bar and that sort of thing. What bugs me is there really isn't any good defensive magic. And if you were to add defensive magic, you would need spells to pierce enemy defensive magic. It makes for a much more in depth combat system.

[BomimoDK]

I have the same thoughts as the OP. I missed the riddling and puzzle elements of Magic combat. call me a sadist, but i also missed getting kicked around by some weakly female in robes if i didn't go in prepared properly.



It's not to early to question about this... in fact, it's seriously late. Dragon Age 1 had enough of this to make it advanced enough for you to think about what you were doing. Baldur's Gate made you particularly aware of even the slightest spells. you'd often do the bigger encounters twice. once to check the water another to blow the birds out of the water. Trial and Error was the name of the game. and we all became sadistic DnD'ers.



Anyway, it's not early in the slightest...

[BomimoDK]

Gambient wrote...

No. Mages are already overpowered.

Defensive spells... you know... balances that mate.

[1varangian]

Ironically, utility spells would work much better in DA's mana based system. No running into a locked chest only to notice you don't have Knock memorized.

The greatest flaw with DA's magic system is that you can completely spend your entire mana in every single encounter. It leaves no thought whatsoever for spellcasting. Just spam everything, drink a potion if you have to, spam more and regen mana in a couple of seconds after battle. So utility spells would also be completely free to cast between encounters. Unlimited Knocks would naturally be problematic undermining rogue skills.

I really hope mana regeneration will be much slower in DA2 to introduce some strategic thinking in playing a mage. Spamming Inferno is only fun for the first three encounters.

It would be really cool if DA2 had a more intelligent magic system with utility and scrying spells included.

Modifié par 1varangian, 12 juillet 2010 - 07:33 .

[stylepoints]

I remember the first time I fought a decent level mage in BG2. I got hit by finger of death and my game ended instantly. Once I kind of figured out how to play it was a much rarer occurrence thankfully haha.



In DA:O Mages were feared because of their damage obviously. However, it was a relatively trivial task to deal with them. Either plink them in the face with arrows or mana clash them and they become a non factor instantly. Wouldn't it be more enjoyable if they took time to make themselves hard to hit, thus lessening damage, and at the same time making them much more deadly the more spells they were able to get out? The same would go for your mage. Make them extremely fragile without proper defenses up, but give spellcasters ways of lowering their defenses at the same time.

[Haexpane]

1varangian wrote...
  It leaves no thought whatsoever for spellcasting. Just spam everything, drink a potion if you have to, spam more and regen mana in a couple of seconds after battle. 

They did the same thing in JJ Abrhams StAliasr Trek

"Fire Everything!" - Nero
"Fire all phasers" - Pike
"Full power to the shields" - Pike
"Fire all Phasers" - Smirk

When in doubt, FIRE EVERYTHING because firing Some things is not nearly as epic

[stylepoints]

I mean how many of you disliked the situation of getting pelted in the face with a fireball as soon as you opened a door, with no defense against it. THAT is the reason mages were deadly in DA:O, there was no defensive magic. And it it worked both ways, you wouldn't be able to slam 20 darkspawn with 3 spells while your party sat around having tea, if their emissary was actively trying to counter your spells.

[1varangian]

I think spellcasting times for the more powerful spells should be increased. I would like to see situations where mages are conjuring some nasty stuff that takes long enough for the enemy to react and interrupt it. But if they pull it off, it would tip the balance of a fight. And they definitely should not be able to regen mana and do that in every encounter.



Magic just has so many tactical possibilities but DA magic feels very point and click and repeat.

[1varangian]

Haexpane wrote...

1varangian wrote...
  It leaves no thought whatsoever for spellcasting. Just spam everything, drink a potion if you have to, spam more and regen mana in a couple of seconds after battle. 

They did the same thing in JJ Abrhams StAliasr Trek

"Fire Everything!" - Nero
"Fire all phasers" - Pike
"Full power to the shields" - Pike
"Fire all Phasers" - Smirk

When in doubt, FIRE EVERYTHING because firing Some things is not nearly as epic

"Fire everything" might be epic as a last resort when it looks like the whole party is doomed.
Spamming Storm of Century through the walls in every single encounter is anything but epic. It's more tedious and easy mode.

[stylepoints]

1varangian wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

1varangian wrote...
  It leaves no thought whatsoever for spellcasting. Just spam everything, drink a potion if you have to, spam more and regen mana in a couple of seconds after battle. 

They did the same thing in JJ Abrhams StAliasr Trek

"Fire Everything!" - Nero
"Fire all phasers" - Pike
"Full power to the shields" - Pike
"Fire all Phasers" - Smirk

When in doubt, FIRE EVERYTHING because firing Some things is not nearly as epic

"Fire everything" might be epic as a last resort when it looks like the whole party is doomed.
Spamming Storm of Century through the walls in every single encounter is anything but epic. It's more tedious and easy mode.

Unfortunately as a fix I have a feeling they are just not going to let you fire it through walls anymore, rather than really making improvements.

[stylepoints]

bump