20 réponses à ce sujet

[elikal71]

Dear Bioware,

I know you don't want to hear it, but when Bioware was sold to EA, I KNEW this was coming. Compare Ultima 7 and Ultima 8. It will tell you ALL you need to know. It's not that EA is evil. Such would be childish to assume. EA means mass market of the smallest common thing. EA means endless copy cat series (FIFA) with minimal change and greatest possible simplification.

The sheer number of creative small studios who had been bought by EA and over a brief time crushed, is long and sad. Bullfrog, Westwood, Origin and many others.  The story was always the same. A small studio, famous and respected for making very creative games, not for a huge Wal-Mart mass market, but for demanding gamers, then bought by EA, streamlined for mass market taste and ultimately made superfluous.


Look at you, Bioware. Look how you changed. Some time ago, when I heard the news Bioware was sold to EA, I was very bitter and felt it was the end of an era. Then, for a while, I thought there was hope, I thought EA had learned. Apparently my fears back then were fully justified.


I am a Game Master for P&P games for 27 years now. And let me tell you one thing, Bioware. A ROLEPLAYING game, means that the people involved identify with a role. They want a vast variety of races and classes, they want a huge plethora of skills and talents to chose from. The more the better. There were days when games like Wizardry or Might and Magic (the RPG) had 30 classes and 20 races to chose from. And then?

Then came VOICE OVER. Then came streamlined story telling. It weren't huge steps in a single game. But step by step, little by litte, what made a game a RPG was betrayed and sacrificed on the altar of so called mass market. Now suddenly you speak of aiming it for your target audience, Bioware. I tell you what. WE used to be your target audience. WE roleplayers made you great. And now that Darth EA is behind you, we no longer count. We are no longer enough for you. We get the burning ring before us like some tamed animal and we can jump at your whim. Take it or leave it. I am sorry, what you are doing is wrong.

It is wrong because it leaves us behind who were your fans for so many years. It is wrong because we made you what you are and now suddenly we are neglectable and other people seem to be your new target audience. It is wrong, because THAT target audience may be more. But they are also fickle. They follow always the newst shiny. Today it's you, tommorw who knows. Ask SOE about their NGE and what they learned about leaving it's core audience behind. And this IS some sort of NGE. Every single approach to ignore the complaints of the core audience has, in the long run, proven to be a failure. Look at the "Last Airbender" movie. It was the same argument: they thought to bring something to a supposed broarder audience, and ignored to critique of their core fanbase they paid the price for it.


Individuality and choice from the beginning on, is one of the core features of a RPG. And what we read sounds like an interactive movie. And already DA:O and ME2 had gone in the wrong direction. Many old school roleplayers had complained about WAY too many and way too long cinenatic scenes and cinematic conversations. Thats not what makes a Roleplaying Game! And in ME2 we had seen the choices even further limited, and essentially ME2 was mostly an interactive movie with shooter elements. It already was no RPG. Now in Sci-Fi people may be more forgiving, especially when it is a new unknown universe. But in fantasy, people EXPECT Elves, Dwarfs and whatnot. They expect many choices and many egos they can play. They don't expect an entirely premade character.



As nice as Voiceover is, it also means the character is not me anymore. What did the Avatar of Britannia, one of the most iconic heroes of gaming say? Name, Job, Bye. He never said anything, because he WAS us. He was the player. And nothing you can voiceover can be so personal as what you imagine in your mind. What you set a characters name and voice, his behavior and backstory, its no longer me. It's some stranger I follow his doings over the shoulder, but I am no longer playing myself, and THEN all those tough moral choices you add to your games mean null.

Bioware, you are losing the path. I know you listen to the EA stockholders who want profit. They want to sell millions of games, and they care less about the small RPG fan community who made you great. I can't even say it will be a financial failure if you follow this path. Heck, many generic games sell in many millions. But for us, who love complex games, who love to chose, who love to ROLEPLAY and not follow some premade characters preset narrative story, for us it is a betrayal. Do it if you think stocks are everything. But don't call it a roleplaying game and know that you are leaving us behind. You are walking a path I as a Roleplayer can not follow you.



Elikal

[sage_viper]

It was WAY too early to be forming major opinions like this. We only know so much information, and while it's fine to show concern based on that information, and even speculate, it is dangerous to formulate solid opinions on loose info.

[GodWood]

So you have played the game, yes?

[Bryy_Miller]

I understand your passion, but you're romanticizing the situation to the point of ridiculousness. You don't know anything about DA2. Anything. As well, you are completely generalizing an entire genre, one that you proclaim to love.



Thirdly, you are putting this on the forums instead of e-mailing them.

[joriandrake]

I wouldn't say it is no RPG, but it's definitive is a wrong step... nah forget that... leap in the wrong direction.

Modifié par joriandrake, 12 juillet 2010 - 08:46 .

[JasonPogo]

Wow. Now I am a pure RPG fan myself. But we only know ONE thing about the game so far. And not even everything about that ONE thing. Calm down. At least for now.

[kansadoom]

As the people above me have said can you at least wait for a little more info?

[DespiertaLosNinos]

The sky is indeed falling

In fact you should seek shelter somewhere far underground.  I'll tell you when it's safe to come back out.

Modifié par DespiertaLosNinos, 12 juillet 2010 - 08:50 .

[thepringle]

I agree with sage_viper we havent seen a trailer we havent seen gameplay and even in this next Gameinformer issue we probably wont get much more than a few bits of info. Anyone remember the GI (or was it OXM? I cant remember) about mass effect 2 they gave almost little to no info about the game and a couple jokes screwing with us? I have a feeling this upcoming GI will end up being like that. So before making major opinions like sage said hold out for some more news on the game.

Modifié par thepringle, 12 juillet 2010 - 08:51 .

[joriandrake]

JasonPogo wrote...

Wow. Now I am a pure RPG fan myself. But we only know ONE thing about the game so far. And not even everything about that ONE thing. Calm down. At least for now.

ONE?

- voiceover for main character
- loss of origins
- loss of races
- Mass Effect-like dialogue wheel
- no transfer of main character from DA1


I may have even forgotten some things, but talking with some guys and also seeing comments on this forum I can tell you that there are quite a lot of people who hate every single thing of what is on the list above.

[McAlternate009]

Full disclosure, I'm pro voice over all the way... Just a thought, but if Bioware put in an option to mute the PC and only displayed subtitles when he/she spoke would that satisfy the purists?

[elikal71]

GodWood wrote...

So you have played the game, yes?

No. I am sending a warning and an advise when maybe some things still can be changed!

[hexaligned]

Unless you personally turned down a huge heaping pile of cash for the sake of artistic integrity, you aren't really in a position to judge. It isn't a "betrayal" they aren't obligated to give you anything they already haven't. I too prefered the old style RPG's, but I don't think the people at Bioware owe me them. There are Indy companies struggling for a niche market for that, but guess what, if those companies become popular enough they will take the investor money when it's offered too. c'est la ve

[kgork]

Bioware doesn't owe you anything.

[geekeffect]

Well, I'll start off introducing myself as an X360 gamer, meaning I'm a "console kitten". I've discovered DAO coming from the Mass Effect side of the barricade. I'm a big fan of ME1, very much enjoyed ME2, and then decided to journey into Dragon Age. I don’t pretend to be an RPG ninja, although I’m getting better at it everyday, but the bottom line is I find DAO absolutely fascinating and in many ways far superior to the Mass Effect franchise. So there…

Having said that I will say that I feel Dragon Age can be improved in many ways, and it seems like BioWare is addressing some of those issues. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, but I’ll state my points…

Origins vs Set character

Definitely one of the most controversial aspects of DA2. The freedom provided by the Origins stories is one of the most well achieved aspects of the original game. There may be a common main storyline but the perspective of it truly changes depending on whether you are a human noble, a dalish elf or a dwarf (although I haven’t still played one myself). The beginning and the closure of the story is truly unique, but it’s more than that. It’s the perception of your characters relationship to the outside world that changes, and with that each playthrough becomes a special experience as well.

How DA2 will address the Hawke character will be determinant to its replay value. The early options in background selection must have a much larger impact than, say, the ones you do in Mass Effect – as an example, choosing if Shepard is a Spacer, Earthborn or a Colonist, really doesn’t change anything regarding who Shepard really is, apart from minor details in ME1. DA2 should have a much wider scope in terms of the main character’s background and class choice.

Graphics and environment

This is probably where there is greater room for improvement. Although DAO looks to be better in the PC version, the graphics are nothing outstanding. The environments also feel too enclosed and there are some template areas that are a complete fail – the Denerim alleys, anyone?...

No one expects DA2 to become a sandbox game. In fact, BioWare games being more narrative driven, the sandbox formula probably wouldn’t work at all. But the environments can have a better feel and a greater sense of freedom, especially in outside areas.

Dialogue wheel

I don’t see why everyone is complaining on this one. As long as BioWare doesn’t simplify this into a black and white moral system – as the paragon / renegade system in ME – there is no reason not to introduce the dialogue wheel in Dragon Age. In fact, I will say that the dialogue wheel is one of the greatest inventions BioWare ever made, it’s one of those simple but referential points in the history of videogames, so if used correctly, it could be put to a very effective use in most of BW story-driven games in the future.

Voiced vs text-based dialogues

I will say that a voiced (male and female) character is more interesting, in the sense that you can get a better feel of involvement of the main character with the surroundings. Again, the main issue here has to do with the fear that a voiced character will limit the scope of personalities and backgrounds, and reduce your character into a Shepard-like character. Which would be contrary to the essence of Dragon Age as an open world where the player is free to create its own character and develop its personality within a wide range of options and choices.

Gameplay – Combat vs Tactics

Now, this, to me, is the most important issue regarding the success or failure of Dragon Age 2, when compared to DAO. The info available emphasizes the idea of dynamic combat, meaning you will be doing the fighting.

This may be a more popular approach, but it may jeopardize the tactical essence of DAO as an RPG. Why? Because DAO is effectively centred in tactical combat. You, as the player, are a bit of a combat manager, and your abilities in the battlefield are directly related to your choices regarding character evolution. If DA2 becomes more centred in fighting, how will your progression and character choices influence what you can or can’t do in combat. Nobody wants a Fable 3 style of combat. So how BioWare will balance the combat with the tactics is really what remains to be seen. I believe this issue is what raises the greatest doubts in the DAO community, and I’m very curious to get more information on this.

We will probably have to wait a bit to know the answers, though… But if we are BioWare fans, we at least owe it to them to wait and see what they come up with, before turning our backs on DA2 entirely. Don’t you agree?

[SheilaD67]

Now, I'll admit, unless I hear otherwise from some of my gaming female friends, I most likely will buy DA:2. I love the first, have a love/hate relationship with Awakenings, and love Bioware in general. However, I must admit to being greatly disappointed that there are no roleplaying options for a female player. Now, now...I have played with male characters before - in NWN and have tried a couple of times in DA:O. I'm a good roleplayer, but sometimes it's tough and I always have to have a female PC game to keep me entertained while I try and get through the male PC. Why did they decide to have only a male PC? Because of the VO? I'd've thought that could be rectified by having 2 VOs - male and female. Not that I'm any kind of technilogical genius or anything, but I would think this was possible.



Anyway, that, so far, is my main quip about the new game. Seems, as usual, many female RP gamers are being overlooked, and I'm rather disappointed with Bioware about that as they normally at least have an option in many of their other RP games for the female protaganist (NWN, NWN2, Baldurs Gate I&II are great examples).



Ah, well...I'll just continue to monitor the hype, hope for truth, and see what's comes out.

[Chris Priestly]

Thank you for your feedback. As others have indicated, it may be a little to early for such feedback yet, but that is up to the individuall.

However, there are already a number of threads where people give their feedback, positive and negative. We do not need each person to star their own thread. Please use one of the existing threads for such feedback. Thanks.


LOCKDOWN!

[zahra]

I think we should at least recognize that it is heartfelt.

[DespiertaLosNinos]

elikal71 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

So you have played the game, yes?

No. I am sending a warning and an advise when maybe some things still can be changed!

And what about the people who might like the changes?  Screw them, change the game to meet your tastes cause your opinion is right?

[JasonPogo]

joriandrake wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...

Wow. Now I am a pure RPG fan myself. But we only know ONE thing about the game so far. And not even everything about that ONE thing. Calm down. At least for now.

ONE?

- voiceover for main character
- loss of origins
- loss of races
- Mass Effect-like dialogue wheel
- no transfer of main character from DA1


I may have even forgotten some things, but talking with some guys and also seeing comments on this forum I can tell you that there are quite a lot of people who hate every single thing of what is on the list above.

Ok ok more then one thing.  And I agree loss of chosing your race is something I am mad about. However the rest if done well is fine.

Also this anger at the lack of having our Warden in DA2 is confusing to me.  Bioware NEVER said they were going to continue with the same main character.  I always asumed it would be a whole new person for the next game.

[joriandrake]

McAlternate009 wrote...

Full disclosure, I'm pro voice over all the way... Just a thought, but if Bioware put in an option to mute the PC and only displayed subtitles when he/she spoke would that satisfy the purists?

I am sure most of them