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[Jimmy Fury]

Bryy_Miller wrote...
It's been confirmed that these are Alpha screens. Mary said the sword was a placeholder for the real model.

apologies for the second post so soon but link please please please
I hunted through BioWare posts but can't find it


(not that I want to point at it and go SEE... or anything... never. I'm a nice civilized upstanding member of society.:innocent:)

[tmp7704]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...
It's been confirmed that these are Alpha screens. Mary said the sword was a placeholder for the real model.

apologies for the second post so soon but link please please please
I hunted through BioWare posts but can't find it

It's here: http://social.biowar...37792/1#3141026

keep on mind going from "Hawke doesn't have his sword" to "these are confirmed alpha screens" is perhaps bit of a stretch, but whatever

[tmp7704]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

That's exactly who these shots are being shown to though. People who are probably already fans of the product. These aren't being used in print ads in non-industry magazines, they aren't running web banners, They're not popping up in TV commercials, they're coming out through a handful of industry magazines specifically geared towards video game fans. That's exactly the market they want to use this strategy with.

So you consider every generic video game fan to probably be an already sold fan of Dragon Age? I don't think that's accurate, if just because there's tons of games i have no personal interest in for whatever reasons, and i'd expect this to be the case for others -- suffice to say there's plenty of negative response to these screenshots (and also to DA in general) on video game boards with focus more broad than BioWare games or RPGs in general. And i really don't think every single person who saw these screenshots is going to check out more DA news down the roads just because they're "video games fans". And if they don't, it'll be not in the least thanks to the quality of the already presented work.

The other site and mags that picked up the first shots from GI and Gamestar (and whatever the russian mag is... there's been stuff from a russian magazine right?) will then pick up the new shots the exact same way they picked up the first ones. Then the people on those sites or who read those magazines, even without hunting down the new pictures, will see them anyway.
It's actually sort of genius.

I'm sorry, i really don't see how it is sort of genius to keep showing people a game is weak. Ok, so this month it may be looking 10% less weak than month earlier, but unless at some point it actually becomes good enough to buy it then who is going to care? And if at some point it does become good enough to actually make someone buy it, then what's the exact purpose of the earlier, weak screenshots? It's not really "to generate interest" because that seems absolutely pointless when you are going to claim at the same time that these people will see all screenshots released, no matter if they are interested in the game or not. Wouldn't it then be enough to just show them the good stuff once things hit that stage? (and if they actually do hit such stage, of course) I suppose i have just too hard time following the logic of this and the supposed gain.

One word.
Avatar.

-edit for more words-
Let me clarify. The very very very first tiny shreds of info about Avatar came in Cameron teasing about it in interviews with film magazines. The next scrap was the concept silhouette of the Navi which hit the trade mags first then the Sci-Fi mags. Then slowly but surely more and more info startled trickling out through the media grapevine. We got shots of Weaver and Worthington in front of green screens (about as sub-par as it gets...) then shots of Saldana and Worthington in their green-screen-suites and motion capture gear.
What started only on the sites and in the magazines that had a vested interest in anything James Cameron touches slowly spread out like a wildfire over the course of 2 years until you couldn't throw a baby without it hitting something with a blue kitty person on it.

OK, but what makes you say that the "concept silhouette of the Navi" and other such scraps shown two years ago had any actual impact on the success of this movie, compared to full-out advertisement campaign when the movie was actually released, not to mention sensational word of mouth when both the viewers and critics alike were swearing on their knees this is the first time ever they got to see a 3d movie actually work, and it was an experience like no other?

Modifié par tmp7704, 16 juillet 2010 - 04:50 .

[KennyBloem]

I agree when people say it's better to release artwork like they did with the two on the day of the announcement than to release early alpha's. It's about teasing fans and let them guess about the next game. You can also give some subtle clues and that's what it's about...



But let's have some faith in Bioware. They never disappointed me....

[SuperMedbh]

Someone mentioned Avatar teasers.  Here's the sort of stuff that was leaked prior to release on the Zbrush forums (a 3D program used for high poly sculpts/normal maps)
www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php

I think Bioware did themselves a disservice by releasing these pre-alpha shots.  I've no doubt the final product will look much better, but why publish such unfinished work?  If the models aren't ready, just release concept art.

P.S.  Steroid enhanced leads are soooooo 2005.  I want a lead who looks like the Old Spice Guy.

[Jimmy Fury]

tmp7704 wrote...
So you consider every generic video game fan to probably be an already sold fan of Dragon Age? I don't think that's accurate, if just because there's tons of games i have no personal interest in for whatever reasons, and i'd expect this to be the case for others -- suffice to say there's plenty of negative response to these screenshots (and also to DA in general) on video game boards with focus more broad than BioWare games or RPGs in general. And i really don't think every single person who saw these screenshots is going to check out more DA news down the roads just because they're "video games fans". And if they don't, it'll be not in the least thanks to the quality of the already presented work.

I didn't say "fan of dragon age" I said fan of the product. The product is a game. If you want to perk interest in a game prior to the all out marketing assault you go for the video game fans because they're the ones that will start talking about it.
Look at it this way, none of these screenshots are on the Official Dragon Age 2 website. Not a single one of them. They're on Game Informer and Gamestar and whatever other game magazines/websites are going to show them. That's because they're not part of the full on campaign, they're a lead up to it. The full on Campaign starts august 17th with the trailer. That's when the good damn-near-final stuff will start going out. That's what the Official Page is pushing, not these screenshots.
But, by putting screenshots of an unfinished product on a gaming-magazine's site they will do 2 things, get people talking (it has clearly worked since we're all in this thread) and, to use a truely terrible cliche, plant the seed of interest. People will go to GI's site, see the pictures, go "meh doesn't look so great" and keep going.
In a few days or a week they'll see something new. They might go "meh still doesn't look SO great but I guess it's a little better" and then the seed is there. Now they're going to keep an eye out, whether consciously or not, when they log on in a couple of days. Then they'll be curious to see if anything new is on there that looks better.

I'm sorry, i really don't see how it is sort of genius to keep showing people a game is weak. Ok, so this month it may be looking 10% less weak than month earlier, but unless at some point it actually becomes good enough to buy it then who is going to care? And if at some point it does become good enough to actually make someone buy it, then what's the exact purpose of the earlier, weak screenshots? It's not really "to generate interest" because that seems absolutely pointless when you are going to claim at the same time that these people will see all screenshots released, no matter if they are interested in the game or not. Wouldn't it then be enough to just show them the good stuff once things hit that stage? (and if they actually do hit such stage, of course) I suppose i have just too hard time following the logic of this and the supposed gain.

They're not going to run it with the caption
"10% less crappy!" or anything, they're going to play it
up. They'll say "Now in beta testing" or "Having spent months polishing
the models Bioware has begun focusing on the textures of Thedas" or
something equally as advertisey. We may all groan and roll our eyes at that when we're told it's being done but every single company plays up complete BS with really pretty sounding words and we all fall for it at some point. Advertising wouldn't be a soulless mind sucking multi-billion dollar industry if it didn't work.

It's genius because they build
interest without people realizing they're interested. Even if they have
no intention to play the game they still might mention it to their
friends.
Even if it's just to say "man those dragon age 2 screens
look kinda weak" it's still being spoken of and someone is going to go
"huh i'll have to check that out" then tada, they got another person.
People
earlier were talking about "building hype" or "hyping the game" but
that's not what this phase is. Hype comes later with all the flashy
fireworks and crap, this is just to use another horrible soul rotting devil spawn cliche, "buzz". This is just to get the name "Dragon Age 2" out there and into peoples brains.
Once the final versions are out most people will forget they ever saw these shots. But they're doing their job right now by getting people to talk about the game even if it's not all positive.

OK, but what makes you say that the "concept silhouette of the Navi" and other such scraps shown two years ago had any actual impact on the success of this movie, compared to full-out advertisement campaign when the movie was actually released, not to mention sensational word of mouth when both the viewers and critics alike were swearing on their knees this is the first time ever they got to see a 3d movie actually work, and it was an experience like no other?

It sounds absolutely insane, I know, but it does have an impact. And no it's not a direct in-your-face effect. it's more subtle, that's why it works so well.
If you tell someone they want something new they'll think you're insane.
If you ask someone if they want something new they'll say no.
(ask any retail zombie that has had to push a store credit card or one of those stupid club cards)
But, if you just mention something in passing with what seems like no motive, they'll start to think about it. Then they'll start to think they want it.
Then all you have to do is show it to them and they'll gobble it up.
It's psychological manipulation and, scary as it may be, it works.

I think this is gonna conclude my lecture on the fine art of corporate brain washing now. I always get depressed when I talk about this crap. Then I start wondering if those guys in the foil hats might be on to something



-side note that just hit me-
TL:DR version- You want proof that it's working? Look at this thread.
36 pages in 3 days. This thread has more pages in less time than any other thread on the DA2 forum. I checked.

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 16 juillet 2010 - 07:19 .

[Tennyochan]

if anyone has seen the GI article, do you think they need to make Hawke's face longer? (or less square)



i don't think i can post comparison images?.... but I'm comparing on pg2 and the DA2 game coverart. it might be because i cant see his whole head in GI image, but hawke doesn't look as babariany as the concept art. i think its because his face/jaw shape is different. needs to be a wee bit longer/thinner? looking at his mustache, concept art has more height on the sides of his mouth.



UGH its hard to explain without the pictures >:|

[Lintanis]

im hoping they have more customisation of the character so you can make what size face and body you want (within reason)

[KennyBloem]

Lintanis wrote...

im hoping they have more customisation of the character so you can make what size face and body you want (within reason)

Same here... If you want to play as a rogue you should be more athletic ans slim than when you play as a warrior...

[Estel78]

This theory of purposely releasing unfinished images first is pure nonsense. They don't wanna lose any costumer, not even one, which they might were they to use this asinine strategy. First impression is VERY important, there might not be a second impression if the person lose interest. That's why it's not uncommon for publishers to release photos that actually look better than the final game.

[Games4ever]

Estel78 wrote...

This theory of purposely releasing unfinished images first is pure nonsense. They don't wanna lose any costumer, not even one, which they might were they to use this asinine strategy. First impression is VERY important, there might not be a second impression if the person lose interest. That's why it's not uncommon for publishers to release photos that actually look better than the final game.

Spot on.. first impression is always the most important thing,also in the screenshots business

[SithLordExarKun]

Estel78 wrote...

This theory of purposely releasing unfinished images first is pure nonsense. They don't wanna lose any costumer, not even one, which they might were they to use this asinine strategy. First impression is VERY important, there might not be a second impression if the person lose interest. That's why it's not uncommon for publishers to release photos that actually look better than the final game.

I wonder who to listen to... you, just some random joe or the developers that actually stated that these arent the final graphics...

[Games4ever]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Estel78 wrote...

This theory of purposely releasing unfinished images first is pure nonsense. They don't wanna lose any costumer, not even one, which they might were they to use this asinine strategy. First impression is VERY important, there might not be a second impression if the person lose interest. That's why it's not uncommon for publishers to release photos that actually look better than the final game.

I wonder who to listen to... you, just some random joe or the developers that actually stated that these arent the final graphics...

Even so these arent the final graphics,first impression is still very important

[Darkieus]

The more they reveal on this game the more I'm dreading the release. Those screens look awful, since when is it ever wise to reveal "Pre-Alpha" screens to a very opinionated yet dedicated fanbase? Is it just me or do all the Darkspawn have Michael Jackson's "Vitiligo"?

[Estel78]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

I wonder who to listen to... you, just some random joe or the developers that actually stated that these arent the final graphics...

Maybe i wasn't clear enough. There are voices here (or one voice) claiming Bioware purposely released images from an older build of the game EVEN THOUGH they're already on a much later build that looks much better. I say that's bollocks. The developer/publisher always wants to show off their product in the best light to leave a lasting impression, especially when it's about the unveiling of their newest game, thus they will release their latest and greatest as far as press material goes and sometimes even fudge the pictures so that they look better than the actual game does.

[Ingrimm22]

Estel78 wrote...
Maybe i wasn't clear enough. There are voices here (or one voice) claiming Bioware purposely released images from an older build of the game EVEN THOUGH they're already on a much later build that looks much better. I say that's bollocks. The developer/publisher always wants to show off their product in the best light to leave a lasting impression, especially when it's about the unveiling of their newest game, thus they will release their latest and greatest as far as press material goes and sometimes even fudge the pictures so that they look better than the actual game does.

I can only second that. Usually Developers go all the way, even to the extend of faking screenshots, to build the hype with the best screenshots they can possibly come up with. Many (especially those shown in first announcements) are even heavily photoshopped or rendered at a much higher resolution than the final product to get the hype going. It was never the other way around, never. Advertising for Movies is a whole other matter and it doesn't follow the same rules as game advertising.

There can be only two reasons for the stunt that Bioware has pulled here:

1. A mishap in the marketing department or
2. The Deveolpers actually think that this looks good in which case they are completely delusional.

Let's hope it's the first.

Modifié par Ingrimm22, 16 juillet 2010 - 12:37 .

[SithLordExarKun]

Estel78 wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

I wonder who to listen to... you, just some random joe or the developers that actually stated that these arent the final graphics...

Maybe i wasn't clear enough. There are voices here (or one voice) claiming Bioware purposely released images from an older build of the game EVEN THOUGH they're already on a much later build that looks much better. I say that's bollocks.

Sorry hun but your say so doesnt make it so, considering that the scans from the GI magazine shows much better graphics along with the fact that the devs have stated it is far from the final build.

Estel78 wrote...
The developer/publisher always wants to show off their product in the best light to leave a lasting impression, especially when it's about the unveiling of their newest game, thus they will release their latest and greatest as far as press material goes and sometimes even fudge the pictures so that they look better than the actual game does.

The very fact that bioware released the very first images of DAO with the NWN engine(which looks horrible) debunks your entire  statement. Sorry hun but you lose again. For your information, it wasn't bioware that released the images, but GI.

[Ingrimm22]

SithLordExarKun wrote...
The very fact that bioware released the very first images of DAO with the NWN engine(which looks horrible) debunks your entire  statement.

No, it just shows that Bioware have a history of not knowing what a game is supposed to look like if it wants to compete in a given market-enviroment. No one buys Bioware Game for their graphic prowess but it sometimes gets ridiculous.

SithLordExarKun wrote...
Sorry hun but you lose again. For your information, it wasn't bioware that released the images, but GI.

And where do you think GI got their screenshots from?

Modifié par Ingrimm22, 16 juillet 2010 - 12:45 .

[SithLordExarKun]

Ingrimm22 wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...
The very fact that bioware released the very first images of DAO with the NWN engine(which looks horrible) debunks your entire  statement.

No, it just shows that Bioware have a history of not knowing what a game is supposed to look like if it wants to compete in a given market-enviroment. No one buys Bioware Game for their graphic prowess but it sometimes gets ridiculous.

SithLordExarKun wrote...
Sorry hun but you lose again. For your information, it wasn't bioware that released the images, but GI.

And where do you think GI got their screenshots from?

I realized you ignore half my posts. They obviously got it from bioware, but it was GI's choice to release them, despite the claims estel made about bioware releasing them.

Then again, the dev's claims and the new scans which DO show a graphical improvement debunks estels claims and that of yours. I obviously can't show these images because it is illegal to scan a magazine and then host it on a website.

[Estel78]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Sorry hun but your say so doesnt make it so, considering that the scans from the GI magazine shows much better graphics along with the fact that the devs have stated it is far from the final build.

Sorry do you have comprehension problems? Yes, of course the build is not final, that's not what i'm disagreeing with. I disagree with the notion that they're purposely holding back the latest build and instead showing us images that are not representative at all anymore.

As for the pictures in the GI magazine, they are the exact same images as those you can find on the internet, plus a few more. They do NOT look much better graphics wise.

SithLordExarKun wrote...

The very fact that bioware released the very first images of DAO with the NWN engine(which looks horrible) debunks your entire  statement. Sorry hun but you lose again. For your information, it wasn't bioware that released the images, but GI.

*lol* Who do you think GI got the images from? From Bioware, silly.

When those images of DAO came out they were the best they had AT THE TIME. Or you really think they released DAO images with the NWN engine when they were already running on the new engine? Those images came out BEFORE they made the switch to the new engine.

[Lucy Glitter]

Don't mind Sith, he's stoned.

[SithLordExarKun]

Estel78 wrote...

Sorry do you have comprehension problems? Yes, of course the build is not final, that's not what i'm disagreeing with.

Looking back at your earlier posts, you keep arguing that the graphics won't change, and now you're saying something else? Contradiction?

Estel78 wrote...
I disagree with the notion that they're purposely holding back the latest build and instead showing us images that are not representative at all anymore.

  And why wouldn't they do that? Do you not understand the meaning of the word "teaser"? How do you know they aren't teasing us? How does it make sense that they keep stating that DA2 looks a hell lot better than DA yet they show subpar screenshots?

Estel78 wrote...
As for the pictures in the GI magazine, they are the exact same images as those you can find on the internet, plus a few more. They do NOT look much better graphics wise.

  You obviously lack the capabilities to read considering the size of your ego. I already stated in an earlier post that there are new images in the GI magazine that DO show DA2's graphical prowess and that i cannot post them because scanning a magazine and then posting it on a website is illegal as it is considered copyright infringement.

Estel78 wrote...
*lol* Who do you think GI got the images from? From Bioware, silly.

  You miss the point, you claimed bioware released them, i just simply showed you that GI released them.

Estel78 wrote...
When those images of DAO came out they were the best they had AT THE TIME. Or you really think they released DAO images with the NWN engine when they were already running on the new engine? Those images came out BEFORE they made the switch to the new engine.

This alone contradicts what you keep trying to brainwash the other members into believing, that because they already released the screenshots in whatever build they are in, therefore they MUST be the final product.

Hell with your damned logic i might as well question every company out there who showcases their products(and trust me, many many companies showcase some products that are even incomplete) which are unfinished and therefore call themout on it and assume it is the final product.

[Estel78]

Okay, you do have comprehension problems. And believe in nonsense marketing tactics.

Modifié par Estel78, 16 juillet 2010 - 01:27 .

[GreenSoda]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Estel78 wrote...
As for the pictures in the GI magazine, they are the exact same images as those you can find on the internet, plus a few more. They do NOT look much better graphics wise.

  You obviously lack the capabilities to read considering the size of your ego. I already stated in an earlier post that there are new images in the GI magazine that DO show DA2's graphical prowess and that i cannot post them because scanning a magazine and then posting it on a website is illegal as it is considered copyright infringement.

...yeah...

[Lintanis]

we will be getting more info from the DA2 game informer website today

gameinformer.com/p/dragonage2.aspx  

Modifié par Lintanis, 16 juillet 2010 - 01:39 .